Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 29, 2004 Posted March 29, 2004 they probably could. Peopel are judging prize by size and to me this might not up the price. Yamato is not as small a compabny as they were when they dfirst starrted. the 1/48 VF-1 racked in a lot of profit and the engineering used for teh VF-0 would be a lot more easier since they dont need nishikawasan to come up with an ingenius way to transform the thing. With the VF-1 nishikawas transformation scheme was groundbreaking and accurate not to mention noone knew what the hell he was thinking when we first saw the pics. noone knew what it was like tioll graham unleased the reviews upon us. But this time nishikawas got the work cut out for him. 0 uses swingbars and the heatshieled is not internal. both of those seem to be the most crucial points o the 1/48 in terms of difficulty of design in transformation. as long asd the 0 is in 160 or 1/48 scale, the bars should be large enough to be durable and stay hidden. the chest plate can simply be slid down to get the shield over the canopy. but like all of us we just want a bigger ) whether its 1/48 or 1/60./ Quote
Blaine23 Posted March 29, 2004 Posted March 29, 2004 Its a common fact that me, imode, blaine23 and others like drclay LOVe big robot toysz. and would damn well pay over 150$ for them. You guys keep thinking this thing will be astronomically huge. if you want astronnomically huge get a 1/48 destroid. a 1/48 VF-0 wouild onlty be a few more inches taller than a VF-1. I fail to realize how some of you act like this thing would be the size of a jumbo machinder or something. I do likes 'em big, Shin... But I'll go on the record and say I'd be just as happy with a toy that was closer to around 12" tall in battroid (1/60 probably) and required no removable parts for transformation... and throw in the tampo printing while you're at it. That's a toy I'd pay over $100 for. All that being said, this 1/100 looks like a different toy for a different consumer... I'll reserve all judgement until I get one in my hands. And you can always add Mechamaniac to your list of people who like a big mecha toy. Quote
imode Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 ...an 18 inch tall valk.... ....drool... w00t! Quote
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 HELL yea! not only would it be as tall as that spiderman that a bunch of our members just bought recently, but with that size...GOOD bye 1/48 backpack hinge! bigger usually = more DURABLE!!!(cept for 1/60 vs 1/48 backpack but you get the point) and people by all means a 1/48 wouildnt b astronomicallty huge. astronoicmally huge is the BBI 1/18th scale F-18 hornet coming in summer. witha 3-4 ft wingspan in that f-18 toy compared to the MUCH smaller VF-0 you guys think the VF-0 in 1/48 scale wouldd be too big? BAH!! Quote
Nani?! Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 big valks are cool... but in all likely scenarios, I don't think yamato will ever make a 1/48 VF-0~ Zero is only an OAV... and as you can see with some of the comments people make here, they hate the VF-0 design. Given the fact that I love the newer valkyrie designs, I hope the macross plus and zero valks atleast get up to 1/60~ I think it'd also be interesting if we saw Macross 7 stuff from yamato... I guess we'll see... Quote
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 not everyone hates the VF-0. The japanese seem to like it they just want a bigger perfect transformable. MAcross plus was only an OVA at one point as well. Look how those sold. The BIG difference is tht now, yamato aint making toys years after the anime came out. No yamato is making toys before the series even ends! So of COURSE they are going to milk the hell out of the license they got. or ranchise whichever. THey are positioning themselves in teh position takatoku was in when macross dfirst came out. with bandai virtually out of sight from macross and toy nami not being abl to lay one finger ona 0, yamato has everything in its corner to make the best macross 0 toys and get enough profit as well. bandais got the license for macross 7 why they still hang on noone knows they the hell why,. 0 seems a lot more likely to get to 1/60 than the plus toys do. for one thing the series just started a year ago and is not done yet. macrss plus already has an established 1/72 line with just one more release left. it seems more likely that yamato would make a 1/100 0 line, then move up to perfect variable once enough profit is made. to yamato i belive 0 is the hot property, plus can take it to backburner after a few months after the long awaited Yf19FPs release(besides out of all plus releases, the onyl one erveryone cares about is the 19......the 21 and 11b Fps came out with not much people really exited for them). yamato FINALLY has a chance to milk a CURRENT macross series before it even finishes. wil they>? u bet your ass they will! im still holdin onto my theory that a large perfect variable will be around before x mas. (time estimation and such....by end of summer i believe we will have 1/100 Vf-0D and SV-51 already....with focker VF-0S by late november...gives tthem enough time to make and engineer) though id like 1/48, id be happy with 1/60. 1/60 since it fits in with yammie 1/60 VF-1. Quote
RTShark Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 That was my thought... Plus, before people get all excited about my numbers, specifically the 18 inch height, remember they are just *guesses*. Educated guesses yes, but guesses nonetheless (could anyone confirm the actual sizes for the VF-0? My estimates were based on it being comparable in size to the F-14, which I have heard but cannot confirm)... While I agree that such a thing would be cool, I'd have my doubts about it being made. A 1/60 would be nice, however, and would actually be much more plausible, IMO. Quote
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 1/60 is median of the 2. not as big as 1/48 not as small as 1.72. FITS IN WITH 1.60 VF-1 LINE...AND.....lil more expensive than 1/100 but a LOT less expensive than 1/48. yuou guys saw the prices for 1/60 vf-1 vs 1/48....you KNOW how much the price difference is. fighter mode does not -= battroid height. I know for sure since the VF-1 is not as tall as the legnth of its fighter mode. Quote
GRAND CANNON Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 (edited) Wouldn't a 1/60 VF-0 be comparable in size to a 1/48 VF-1, though? I would think 1/60 is the "top scale" for the VF-0 and would cost as much as a 1/48. Just look at maxvf1a's 1/72 comp pic..... Edited March 30, 2004 by GRAND CANNON Quote
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 you gus are sizing up wrong. dont judge by that pioc. that pic is taken from seperate distances. jsut because they match up there dont mean they dont match up in real life. dont get the wrong idea,, the hasegawa comparisons are dead on by comparing the HCm nad such t the hasegawa is off. there is no reason to think the 1/60 VF-0 wouild cost as much as a 1/48. absoluely no reason. just because its kind of big? A lot of you forget that the engineering and transformation mechanisms would be a hell of a LOT easier to workj on the VF-0. for one thing nishikawa dont need to stress over night wondering how to make irt perfect variable..its got swing bars an at a/160 or 48 size they will be big enough to be durable AND hidden. the internal chestplate? seemes ingenius on the VF-1 right? guess what fanboys on the VF-0 it AINT internal. it merely slides down. again the 1/48 was pricey because o engineering for transformation and such. if not for thr atransformation they mineswell have just upped the 1/60 to that scale and changed NOTHING. i can tell you that if they did that it would have been much cheaper. i imagine the 1/60 VF-0 going qrau price at most. after all the moneys all in the engineering not the size. ALWAYS keep that in mind. qrau is bigger than 1/48 but dont cost as much .that should say something. Quote
eugimon Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 the price point of the qrau has little to do with material cost, or complextiy ( look at mpc convoy as an example, more expensive materials a lot of moving parts- relatively low price). it has everything to do with market, demand and licensing. (if big west want's a larger cut for the rights to produce these toys, then guess who gets to pick up the tab?) and since yamato is probably convinced that macross collectors are willing to pay well over a hundred dollars for their premium lines, I don't think expecting a 1/60 macross zero toy to cost as much as a 1/48 vf-1 is out of the question. besides, those swing bars in the anime are pretty darn thin, yamato would have to use pretty strong metal to be able to pull that off and still keep it in scale with the art. Complexity of design, material cost these things are probably minimal... after all, they pay the designers on salary it's not like they get royalties off of every unit sold. Even if the designers get paid 100,000 a year, it wouldn't take much to make that much up. It's all about market... how big is your market, what is the market willing to bear, how likely is it that your market will grow, how likely is it you'll saturate the market and drive down interest... these things probably make up more of the cost than anything else. Quote
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 i gotta disagree. complextity of design factors in a lot. Look at the 1/100 VF-0 compared to teh swapable 1/60 VF-1. Vf-1 is CLEARLY more complex and look how much its priced over. Almost 30$. The swing bars in the anime are thin but whos to say they wont be on the toy? on a 1/60 i would expect those bars to be big enough not to break whil there is enough space to disgfuise it. The reason hasbros MPC prime is 70$ is because hasbro is a big F****n corporation. They charge less than takara probably because they are in a btter financial situation. its not a big secret that back in the late 90s, hasbro bailed takara out of a real bad financial situation. So while they are mutual companies and partnets, i believe hasbro can charge less because they mass produce so much stuff and like i said are in a better financial situation. Hasbro dont need to charge as much as yamato simply bcause they have way more money. yamato is a small company and i bvelieve they dont have that many dedicated sculptors aside from billy wong an nishikawa. it was known at one point that the macross 0 toys initially would be sculpted by some dude from bandai who sculpted the 1/48 fast pack parts., also......a transformation mechanism aint always easy to develoop. nishikawa was working first on 1/60 line and then out of nowhere the 1/48 came up. im sure he did not come up with the transfomation BEFORE the 1.60 was ready to be released. stuff like that aint cheap. i agree with the licensing though. oh and with the qrau its a financial risk...no other company has out out a qrau of that calibur and i uno bout japan but girl figures dont do as good as males here. Quote
Wicked Ace Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 (edited) Just look at maxvf1a's 1/72 comp pic..... That pic of the VF-0 and VF-1 comparison is interesting, imagining both on my coffee table in 1/48 scale. Just for a fun comparison, can anyone post a pic of a 1/48 Yamato next to a G.I. Joe Sky Striker? I know somebody on here has both of the items. Might seem a little off-topic, but a pic of an actual 1/48 Yamato next to the large Sky Striker might put things into a little more perspective for those wanting a 1/48 VF-0! Obviously the Sky Striker would be larger than a 1/48 VF-0, but by how much? Edited March 30, 2004 by Wicked Ace Quote
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 a LOT. tht thing may be off scale but even if its off the 1/18th scale its certainly bigger than a 1/32 scale if not the same size. ive seen a 1/48 tomccat and the striker is WAY bigger than that thing, the only thing bigger i believe is a 1/24 scale tomcat. Quote
Wicked Ace Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 a LOT. tht thing may be off scale but even if its off the 1/18th scale its certainly bigger than a 1/32 scale if not the same size. ive seen a 1/48 tomccat and the striker is WAY bigger than that thing, the only thing bigger i believe is a 1/24 scale tomcat. You have to keep in mind that the Sky Striker is not a scale F-14 Tomcat, but I agree that it would be a lot bigger than a 1/48 VF-0. It's been so long since I've owned a Sky Striker (many, many years), but I remember it being large, but not as large as it should have been, considering the size of the pilot figure. Quote
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 dude i KNOW is not an inscale thats why i said its scale was off. Also why i mentioned that its a lot bigger than a 1/48 F-14 so in fact a VF-0 woul be a lot smaller than a skystriker. a tomcat is bigger than a falcon but not astronomically bigger. so a VF-0 shouldnt be humungous compared to VF-1. I think the striker would be longer than the 0 by 7-10 inches. maybe more give or take. I now believe that the skystriker .....is closer to 1/24 scale rather than 1/32. Shrink the striker in half, give a fewmore inches, and i think thats the size of the VF-0 in 1/48 scale. as it stands i could really care less as long as its perfect variable and at least 1/60 scale. if 1/.48 awesme if 1/60 still cool. jsut not 1/72. Quote
Wicked Ace Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 (edited) dude i KNOW is not an inscale thats why i said its scale was off. Also why i mentioned that its a lot bigger than a 1/48 F-14 so in fact a VF-0 woul be a lot smaller than a skystriker. a tomcat is bigger than a falcon but not astronomically bigger. so a VF-0 shouldnt be humungous compared to VF-1. I think the striker would be longer than the 0 by 7-10 inches. maybe more give or take. I now believe that the skystriker .....is closer to 1/24 scale rather than 1/32. Shrink the striker in half, give a fewmore inches, and i think thats the size of the VF-0 in 1/48 scale. as it stands i could really care less as long as its perfect variable and at least 1/60 scale. if 1/.48 awesme if 1/60 still cool. jsut not 1/72. That's great; nice description. Anyway, I hope it's OK with you if somebody posts up the (just for fun) comparison pic. I think the 1/48 VF-1 & Sky Striker pic will be a little more interesting than the 1/48 VF-1 & 1/48 Tomcat pic. Why? I think the sheer absurdity in the scale comparison will change my life. Edited March 30, 2004 by Wicked Ace Quote
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 hey i wouldnt mind that. since hasbro announced they were reissugin the striker this year but other than that nothing has come up id LOVE to see the striker compared to some VF-1 1/48s. come on boys POST EM! Quote
eugimon Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 Well, I do agree that material and engineering make up some of the cost... and yes, the VF-0 should be easier to translate than the VF-0... but I don't see yamato breaking from their track record and pricing a larger vf-0 at premium prices. Given that the Q-rau was a risky unit for yamato... that alone still does not justify such a HUGE mark up. Design wise... the Q-rau is very straight forward, few points of articulation and simple construction and nearly no painting. After giving it some thought, I think there is another factor we're not talking about... in order to keep the prices of their macross toys stable... they have to release toys at certain price points. kinda the same way grain and dairy producers artificiallyinflate their prices to keep themselves in business. If yamato released prices at more reasonable rates, given the limited macross market and the small group of new macross fans (no new TV series), the macross wagon would dry out. it just wouldn't be worth to keep producing these toys. Keep in mind that compaines like hasbro have a hand in both the animation and the toys... the animation is a 30min commercial for the toys. Yamato does not have this luxury... they license the rights to produce toys and I'm sure they need to produce a certain level of profit in order to justify keeping the license (for both yamato execs and bigwest execs). That's why I think... that no matter the circumstances, yamato will continue to market their premium toys at higher price points than other toys of similar size/design/construction. Quote
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 i need to clarify. a lot of people think that if the 1/48 VF-0 is made it will be priced at a very very high price. I jsut think it wont be as bad as people think. Sure we wont get a premium price, but im sure the VF-0 would be at a reasonable price, not one to give us heartattacks over. thats toynami folks. lol Quote
Wicked Ace Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 be at a reasonable price, not one to give us heartattacks over. thats toynami folks. lol Ain't that the truth! Quote
RTShark Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 1/60 is median of the 2. not as big as 1/48 not as small as 1.72. FITS IN WITH 1.60 VF-1 LINE...AND.....lil more expensive than 1/100 but a LOT less expensive than 1/48. yuou guys saw the prices for 1/60 vf-1 vs 1/48....you KNOW how much the price difference is. I think seeing a 1/60 would be very reasonable and much more likely than seeing a 1/48. I might even buy a 1/60 VF-0 if it were to come out. I wouldn't touch a 1/48... I love my 1/48 VF-1, but that's about the most I can justify spending on something like that. fighter mode does not -= battroid height. I know for sure since the VF-1 is not as tall as the legnth of its fighter mode. No, it's not a direct comparison, but it is pretty close. For instance (from the Macross Compendium): VF-1 length in fighter: 14.23 m, height in battroid: 12.68 m. That's 1.5 meters difference (about 5 feet for my fellow Americans). In 1/48 scale that difference comes out to about 1.25 inches. Anyway, that's why I used the words "estimate" and "guess", because I wasn't providing hard and fast numbers but estimates and guesses. Quote
mechaninac Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 (edited) Here's a novel idea to put this debate to rest: Get the physical dimensions of the VF-0 in fighter and battroid modes (length, height, width at shoulders, depth, max wingspan, etc.) and divide them by the scale factor denominator (1/60, 1/48), then convert the results to centimeters or inches if desired. Of course, this will require the plane's actual dimensions to be known; have the stats been posted anywhere? I, for one, will wait for larger scale versions of the M0 fighters before I start buying anything (1/48 would be my prefference, but 1/60 would do in a pinch). Even though, at 1/100, the upcoming release will be in scale with existing VF-1 kits and with Bandai's VF-2SS model, the only way I can see myself spending any money on the 1/100 Zero Valkyries is if I find them at a pretty good discount (40% off retail, minimum) a few months after they come out; I got caught with my pants down on the first few 1/60 VF-1s and I'm not going to let that happen again. Edited March 30, 2004 by mechaninac Quote
EXO Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 You guys are arguing about things that aren't even on the map yet. What makes everyone think that Yamato has an modus operandi when it comes to making bigger toys? So far the only toy that has a larger version is the VF-1s and we all agree that that is a special case. Let's wait for the announcement for a bigger scale VF-0 before you guys start the endless whining and debating about what scale it should be in. It's like you guys were kidnappers and sent in the ransom demands but forgot to pick up the victim. Quote
Anubis Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 At least there's no blood spray this time, unlike the Q-rau thread that had to be shut down. This has been pretty civil. Pipe dreams and wild speculation, but no blood spray. Anything further yet about how the legs actually attach on the 1/100 VF-0? Was the bracket idea close or way off? Quote
mechaninac Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 (edited) Just got the fighter lenght from Starship Modelers' review of the FV-0S. ........Lenght: 27 cm (@ 1/72) = 270 mm = .27 m. That makes the plane 19.44 m long @ 1/1. Therefore, at 1/60 the plane would be 324 mm long = 32.4 cm = 12.76 inches. And at 1/48 it would be 405 mm = 40.5 cm =15.94". Not that outrageous in my book. And, just for kicks, the SV-51: ........Lenght: 31.7 cm (@1/72) = 317 mm = .317 m. At 1/1 the plane is 22.824 m (the compendium quotes 22.77m, but I'll base my numbers off Hasegawa's kit). Thus, at 1/60 you have a length of 380.4 mm = 38.04 cm = 14.98". A 1/48 version would be 475.5 mm long = 47.55 cm = 18.72". Pretty big bird. PS: to the naysayers...insane speculation, and wishful thinking, are very common traits in these forums. Edited March 30, 2004 by mechaninac Quote
Angel's Fury Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 Just got the fighter lenght from Starship Modelers' review of the FV-0S.........Lenght: 27 cm (@ 1/72) = 270 mm = .27 m. That makes the plane 19.44 m long @ 1/1. Therefore, at 1/60 the plane would be 324 mm long = 32.4 cm = 12.76 inches. And at 1/48 it would be 405 mm = 40.5 cm =15.94". Not that outrageous in my book. And, just for kicks, the SV-51: ........Lenght: 31.7 cm (@1/72) = 317 mm = .317 m. At 1/1 the plane is 22.824 m (the compendium quotes 22.77m, but I'll base my numbers off Hasegawa's kit). Thus, at 1/60 you have a length of 380.4 mm = 38.04 cm = 14.98". A 1/48 version would be 475.5 mm long = 47.55 cm = 18.72". Pretty big bird. PS: to the naysayers...insane speculation, and wishful thinking, are very common traits in these forums. Thanks for the specs mechaninac! You're right! The SV-51 IS a big bird! Quote
Anubis Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 (edited) Just got the fighter lenght from Starship Modelers' review of the FV-0S.........Lenght: 27 cm (@ 1/72) = 270 mm = .27 m. That makes the plane 19.44 m long @ 1/1. Therefore, at 1/60 the plane would be 324 mm long = 32.4 cm = 12.76 inches. And at 1/48 it would be 405 mm = 40.5 cm =15.94". Not that outrageous in my book. And, just for kicks, the SV-51: ........Lenght: 31.7 cm (@1/72) = 317 mm = .317 m. At 1/1 the plane is 22.824 m (the compendium quotes 22.77m, but I'll base my numbers off Hasegawa's kit). Thus, at 1/60 you have a length of 380.4 mm = 38.04 cm = 14.98". A 1/48 version would be 475.5 mm long = 47.55 cm = 18.72". Pretty big bird. PS: to the naysayers...insane speculation, and wishful thinking, are very common traits in these forums. This of couse also means 19.44 cm (almost 8 inches) in fighter mode at 1/100. Not too shabby either. A 1/60 or 1/72 would be sweet of course, but 1/100 isn't exactly tiny either. Add in the wing span, and it's still an impressive bird. And damn, the SV-51 is huge. BTW, PS: to the naysayers...insane speculation, and wishful thinking, are very common traits in these forums. I am guilty of that myself at times, so I'm not saying anything bad above. Speculation is healthy, and makes for fun threads like this one. Only thing that's bad is when it turns bitter, which thankfully hasn't happened too much lately, after the Q-rau incident. Edited March 30, 2004 by Anubis Quote
ewilen Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 For calculations based on the official dimensions (from the Compendium) of the VF-0, look at this post. Heck, I'll quote it: As for the absolute size of VF-0 toys compared to the 1/48 VF-1, somebody's probably already done it, but here are the figures based on scale and official stats (i.e., not based on measuring the toy, but should be close):VF-1: Real length 14.23 m 1/48 scale length ~30 cm or 11-1/2 inches VF-0: Real length 18.69 m 1/100 scale lenth ~19 cm or 7-1/2 inches 1/72 scale length ~26 cm or 10 inches 1/60 scale length ~31 cm or 12-1/2 inches 1/48 scale length ~39 cm or 15-1/2 inches A 1/72 or 1/60 VF-0 would be around the size of a 1/48 VF-1. A 1/48 VF-0 might or might not be unwieldy but I'd expect it to cost considerably more. If nothing else, it would probably require around double the raw materials. (It's about 30% longer than the VF-1, which translates into roughly twice the volume.) Quote
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 (edited) Sv-51 is more likely legnth than bulk i beelive.,. shouldnt be too bad made a poem for VF-0 scales. im sure most of you will agree i'd masturbate to 1/48 1/60 would be kind of nifty Screw 1/72 yes it rhymes! Edited March 30, 2004 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Quote
Anubis Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 Sv-51 is more likely legnth than bulk i beelive.,. shouldnt be too badmade a poem for VF-0 scales. im sure most of you will agree i'd masturbate to 1/48 1/60 would be kind of nifty Screw 1/72 yes it rhymes! You've been hanging around Agent too long Quote
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 30, 2004 Posted March 30, 2004 well its more like i think a 1/48 would be way cool but realistically i think yamato wouold go for a 1/60. call me crazy but even at 10 inches, the 1/72 Vf-0 is too small to me. now 1/60 hjowever is pretty good. I imagine it wouldnt cost as much as a 1/48 and ims ticking yo ma opinion./ Quote
eugimon Posted March 31, 2004 Posted March 31, 2004 I'm with shin! I'll get the 1/100's but the 1/60 is the one I really want no matter how much it costs PS: I've been converted, arguing about things not out yet, based on pure speculation... these things are what makes this board fun! Quote
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