where are the destroids post SW1?

[dedalus001]

basically, we see that destroids with the exception of the monster got chewed up against the zents. i can vividly remember seeing milia vaporize a few while delivering ware rori and konda on their mission. anyway, in the FB2012 era of colonization fleets, i would think it more reasonable to maybe integrate nossdicant spell-ger and quadellan raus for ship defense. does anyone know the true story? the only times i recall seeing destroids after Macross are in the Minmay Video episode of M7 and when Isamu vaporizes a Monster while testing the YF-19 out.

[kensei]

I think destroids were decommissioned after SW1 because they weren't much good at what they do. They suit the term "Cannon Fodder" more than the standard issue VF-1As.

[CoryHolmes]

Destroids were phased out because they didn't transform, and every mecha in the Macross universe must transform, regardless of whether it fits the universe or even makes sense.

It was probably a producer's decision not to include many Destroids because they were relativly unmarketable as toys and models, lacking the cool factor of a transforming plane.

As for in-story reasons, it could be that they were deemed to be too slow to be of much use on the combat field, especially as most of the combat moved towards massive space battles.

[Graham]

What you have to remember is that when Destroids were originally designed, the UN Spacy probably didn't have a 100% clear idea of the aliens war fighting capability. Oh sure, they knew that the aliens were giant humanoids, but beyond that little else may have been known, so the Destroids were built to fight against giant humanoid soldiers, but proved seriously lacking againgst the faster and more mobile enemy mecha, especially the Q-Rau, N-Ger & Glaug.

Destroids were probably phased out of service as they lack both the tatical and strategic mobility of VFs and also their sheer versitility.

Graham

[wolfx]

Do the variable Glauugs and Monsters consider as Destroids?

[daeudi]

I have always preferred to think that the destroids became upgraded as much as the Valkyries... (Yes, probably looking like AC:3)

Consider that if it is not related to the story arc, it wasn't put in.

Also- remember that Destroids are a Hell of a lot CHEAPER to make.

We have only seen shows relating to UN SPACY (Air/Space).

It is unreasonable to think that the land/sea forces of dozens (hundreds?) of colonization worlds would only use the most expensive type of mecha available for things like Civil Defense. Even buying a surplus VF-5000 squadron would be more expensive than a battalion of Destroids.

One last point- unless thee is something in the Japanese that No one has ever bothered translating - there is NOTHING to support the idea that destroids are gone forever-- that is only speculation, same as mine that they are still around.

[Anubis]

In space Destroids were useless pretty much, and instead more VF's and eventually VA's and VB's were added to give all the versatility needed. On the ground I would imagine left over destroids may be used in limited capacity, or for weapons practice. A group of VF's would be much more able to meet and take care of a group of regults than adestroid squad. They were just too cumbersome by comparison to what the Zentradi threw at us. If anything, I would say the Monster stayed, because it was the definitive artillery piece, and could inflict a big hurting. But even that likely may have fallen to the need for quick response and movability.

For quick and effective response a VF would always be preferred over a destroid. Thus new Destroid production was probably halted not long after SW1 and the cash diverted into VF production. One could argue you coud do more easily with a squadron of VF's than with a lot of destroids. How much mecha do you really need for civil defense? An invading fleet is another thing entirely, but that's what the space fleet is for.

Light derivatives existed though. Constuction mecha, and the police units in M7(pattroids or whatever they were called.)

I've always liked the idea of having some full size Zentran/Meltran Units. A special forces Meltran Unit w/ Q-rau's would be a great addition to the fleet. I would like to think they had some of those at least.

Edited March 23, 2004 by Anubis

[Boxer]

Gotta wonder; if a hundred homing missiles are an aircraft's worst enemy, why retire the Phalanx? And until the design of the Koing monster, do we have any large-scale moving howitzers (Let alone four) in the Macross universe?

Besides, inter-ship defenders packing more than a simple gunpod might be a tad more dangerous and readily avialable than hoping your VFs will fly in after ship invaders.

[KingNor]

you could argue that the destroids would be good if they anticipated a large population of full sized zentradi to be living with the humans.

a destroid can't beat a zentradi mech, but its definately better than a lightly armed zentradi on foot.

the destroids could be a good occupation/police tool. but frontline, i agree they are too slow and unversitile.

IDEA: since the VF's do seem very lightly armed, it could be an intresting idea to use the destroids a mile or so back from the front lines as a sort of medium artillery for in close support of the lightly armed valks.

i think thats putting more thought into it than the creators did though.

the problem in the show with the destroids, is they arn't very strong dispite that they look like "tank" versions of the VF. they would probably be more popular if they could take more damage.

seeing a gladiator or excalibur(dunno the japanise names) take the brunt of gunfire, missles, and melee attacks onlly to come out swinging and begging for more would have been so cool, but instead most destroids blowed up in a single hit. thats not any better than the supposedly lightly armored valks...

Edited March 23, 2004 by KingNor

[dna]

I say if they were still around we would have seen them in M7 (besides the Patroids and the old timers.)

Of course, the guy above is correct; we will never know one way or the other untill official word comes down. But I think the odds are with me.

[Godzilla]

you could argue that the destroids would be good if they anticipated a large population of full sized zentradi to be living with the humans.

a destroid can't beat a zentradi mech, but its definately better than a lightly armed zentradi on foot.

the destroids could be a good occupation/police tool. but frontline, i agree they are too slow and unversitile.

IDEA: since the VF's do seem very lightly armed, it could be an intresting idea to use the destroids a mile or so back from the front lines as a sort of medium artillery for in close support of the lightly armed valks.

i think thats putting more thought into it than the creators did though.

the problem in the show with the destroids, is they arn't very strong dispite that they look like "tank" versions of the VF. they would probably be more popular if they could take more damage.

seeing a gladiator or excalibur(dunno the japanise names) take the brunt of gunfire, missles, and melee attacks onlly to come out swinging and begging for more would have been so cool, but instead most destroids blowed up in a single hit. thats not any better than the supposedly lightly armored valks...

I have to KingNor. Well like I said before in another thread long ago, the Destroid armor should withstand what the enemy can throw.

If we looked back at the M1 tank when it first came out in the early 80's no one had a real clear idea of its capabilities. There were complaints how bad this system was. Even the Bradley was given a bad rap in the media. As the mainstay of the US armored corps, only then in 1991 did we know the capabilities of the M1 and M2. Speculation before the Gulf War I was that we would lose. 60 minutes did many interviews with "experts" and they said the M1 was not able to handle desert conditions. TOW missiles would fail in intense heat, etc. Basically the Soviet era weapons were far more superior so the "experts" said. Now we know how much BS that was since US Navy F-14s took out 2 Su-22 and 2 MiG-23 and submarine technology was decades ahead of the Soviets.

Ok, so what does this have to do with this topic? I assume the creators of Macross used what information that was used out there. Remember this was the early 80's when this was made. Then again, one can argue that the aliens are far more superior than Earth. Still no one really knew what this Chobham armor could deflect a TOW missile. So I assume the creators just used what they have.

It is kinda like Battleship Yamato. They used WW2 tactics in space. I assume that is what they have to go on.

Frankly I find it stupid for some thing as armored as a Destroid, one hit can destroy it. Sure, they are slow BUT there is a reason why they are slow. They are lugging heavier weapons and have armor. Regardless, you would think that pilots of both valks and destroids would become more trained as experience would be passed down.

[dna]

Where is it said Destroids are so heavily armoured? Maybe they have paper thin armour?

[That NOS Guy]

Where is it said Destroids are so heavily armoured? Maybe they have paper thin armour?

What else wouold they have? I mean an Excalibur boosts how many weapons and given it's bulk it had plenty of room for armor.

Or....

New materials and armor patterns developed pre-SSW 1 and were used. Thin, but just as effective ne?

[dna]

Where is it said Destroids are so heavily armoured?  Maybe they have paper thin armour?

What else wouold they have? I mean an Excalibur boosts how many weapons and given it's bulk it had plenty of room for armor.

Or....

New materials and armor patterns developed pre-SSW 1 and were used. Thin, but just as effective ne?

Funny, I was thinking of the Tomahawk and saying, "Look at all those weapons - where's it got room for armour?"

Anyway, where does it say they are so heavily armoured? Maybe they skimped? There's got to be a reason why they get blown away so easily (besides plot.)

[Prime]

I always thought that destroid were for the most part glorifed artillary and anti-aircraft pieces (cool looking though they may be). I don't imagine that they were much more effective than tanks and more traditional weapons of that sort. Destroids would be extremely expensive compared to their counterparts, without a big payoff.

[Gabriel]

I think the destroids got a raw deal mainly for the same reasons that the CF's did...they weren't piloted by main characters. The show was about showcasing the Valks, not the destroids.

Destroids are ground-pounding grunts, straightforward and uncomplicated. They don't need to transform or fly, so they should have much, much more room for heavier weapons and armor. Unless they were in fact designed poorly/cheaply (or accidently made of high explosives), there doesn't seem to be any reason why they shouldn't perform well in the roles for which they are intended, especially the more versatile models like the Tomahawk and Spartan.

[Boxer]

Even if they were Cannon Fodder units, they shouldn't have beeen needlessly cut.

*Thinks* Wait, have we ever seen any of the monsters on the Macross destroyed? I can't recall a Monster getting blown up in the second DVD box set.

It would be cool to have a main character piloting a Destroid in the next Macross series.

[bob joe mac]

I would also have to say the destroids just got blown away because they weren't piloted by main characters and the one ep where hikaru DID jump into a destroid and Zentraedi tried to blast him he kicked their asses.

[ewilen]

*Thinks* Wait, have we ever seen any of the monsters on the Macross destroyed? I can't recall a Monster getting blown up in the second DVD box set.

I'm pretty sure that no Monster was ever destroyed onscreen, at least in SDF Macross and DYRL.

[azrael]

Destroids were probably phased out of service as they lack both the tatical and strategic mobility of VFs and also their sheer versitility.

A good example would be M0. Look at the Cheyenne. The Cheyenne served as point defense of the Asuka. Even with the booster, the Cheyenne still had to stay close to the ship, or risk sinking. It couldn't fly and it's range was limited to the size of Asuka. Most Destroids only serve the purpose of being a walking turret/artillery. In space, they don't have the mobility of a VF. It would be cheaper to just install turrets at key points over using destroids to cover the area.

[UN Spacy]

Maybe they have paper thin armour?

It sure seemed that way in DYRL. There were a couple of scenes that show Destroids getting annihilated with one or two close range shots (i.e. just before the NGR's assault on Macross City).

[Boxer]

*Thinks* Wait, have we ever seen any of the monsters on the Macross destroyed? I can't recall a Monster getting blown up in the second DVD box set.

I'm pretty sure that no Monster was ever destroyed onscreen, at least in SDF Macross and DYRL.

And unfortunately the monsters that actually survived were used for target practice.

This reminds me of the story of Battleships. The Battleship was king of the sea until the weak little carrier came along with it's swarm planes. Now it seems all the Battleship and it's big guns are worth for is museium peices, scrap metal, and target practice for fighters.

Shesh, Destroids deserve more respect.

[Lezt]

destroids should get more respect...

it is like the argument of tanks against fighters, the tank holds some advantages while the plane hold the other.

as stated before, a destroid is cheaper to produce, the pilot is easier to train(less transformation), the armour could be much thicker(look at teh 200mm of armour on a mordern tank and 30mm in fighters), the same power geneator can povide more power to the weaponary systems as the destroid does not need to fly. therefore the destriod can pack more punch than most vfs. the only draw back is the lack of speed. but that does not make them weak at defending stragic locations or spearhead a planet bound assault. it is that vfs are glorified abit too much over the destroids...

[JB0]

I've always thoguht the destroid line DID continue on.

You never SEE much of a ground fight in the later shows, so you wouldn't see much of the destroids.

We know they made at LEAST one new model, and added transformation to it so it could more swiftly get where it was needed(see the VB-6).

[vanpang]

Granted Mac II is not officially in the MACROSS universe, we did get to see the upgraded versions of the destroids defending macross city from the marduks. I still think they are required after SW1 as they are more suited in holding strategic positions rather than the valkyries.

[dedalus001]

*Thinks* Wait, have we ever seen any of the monsters on the Macross destroyed? I can't recall a Monster getting blown up in the second DVD box set.

I'm pretty sure that no Monster was ever destroyed onscreen, at least in SDF Macross and DYRL.

And unfortunately the monsters that actually survived were used for target practice.

This reminds me of the story of Battleships. The Battleship was king of the sea until the weak little carrier came along with it's swarm planes. Now it seems all the Battleship and it's big guns are worth for is museium peices, scrap metal, and target practice for fighters.

Shesh, Destroids deserve more respect.

yeah it pisses me off to think the idea of a well armed cruiser these days consists of like 3-4 phalanx CIWS and a few missile launchers. wheres the character? where are the big guns!??! ahhh

so does anyone think there was competetive rivalry between the destroids and vf units? like it was all like "biatch, i kill more and i transform" and destroids are like" biatch, we get shot up and we look cool dyin" and valkyries are like "biatchhh we look cooler when we die"

i just don't think destroids were used during the 2045s- they seem like something that stayed around during the vf-4's service, but after that i don't think ther was much destroidage. we don't see much of that during M7, but M7 is so "wonderfully unique" in some ways that i wouldn't be surprised if destroids were present, but certain things were focused on.... certain..annoying......things.....

dont get me wrong, i loved M7, but my one complaint was that the entire BGM comprised of fire bomber, i wish it was more like Macross with music that suited the role in a less stylized manner.

[tetsujin]

I always thought of the destroids' role in space battles as being the close-in defenses and supplementary (mobile) gun emplacements. Valks act as interceptors, small destroids act as defensive units, and large destroids (Monsters) act as small anti-ship guns. While the Macross has guns of its own covering the hull, the addition of hull-walking destroids allows for the possibility of increasing the defenses in a particular area of the ship or "replacing" destroyed hull-mounted cannons.

It could be said that these facilities are less important in the Macross 7 era, as the Earth fleets had grown considerably larger, and a major battle carrier like the '7 would have numerous independent escort ships which could support Battle 7 rather well if it was in trouble. City 7 also had more interior space, so the use of variably aircraft (as opposed to just walking armored units) for internal defense is more useful. But I think the real reason the destroids didn't play a big role in most of the newer Macross material is just what's already been stated: they weren't popular enough. I think it stinks. I love transformation and all, but I also love a good non-transforming design, and the Destroids are cool, likewise all the non-transforming Zentradi stuff from the original series.

[dna]

True.

I think a Destroid saga would make a good side story - the 5 episodes of M0 would be about the right length i think.

[Final Vegeta]

it is like the argument of tanks against fighters, the tank holds some advantages while the plane hold the other.

Namely, these advantages blur a bit when the fighter can do the same things of the tank.

the armour could be much thicker

Destroids are already heavier than Valkyries, after all.

the same power geneator can povide more power to the weaponary systems as the destroid does not need to fly.

Destroids don't have the same power generator of the Valkyries. That's why they are cheaper.

As fort the weapons, I have the impression Macross weapons are battery powered.

Anyway, I think destroids stayed simply because you can't train anyone piloting a plane.

FV

[bob joe mac]

well since VFX-2 IS part of the continuity and it has destroids, mind you the EXACT same as the ones from the TV show I would assume they are still around but easy to obtain since everyone and their mother has a bunch of them in VFX-2.

[dna]

well since VFX-2 IS part of the continuity and it has destroids, mind you the EXACT same as the ones from the TV show I would assume they are still around but easy to obtain since everyone and their mother has a bunch of them in VFX-2.

Good point, but if I recall the plot correctly, those destroids weren't piloted by UN Spacey - they were all bad guys (I'm assuming since I killed them. I hope so anyway... )

[nathan]

I think the main reason we haven't seen more destroids is because:

variable mecha are cooler. Even M7's police mecha transformed.

Macross creators seem to like the flashy high tech stuff.

The main characters don't use destroids. The one time when hikaru did the Spartan kicked ass, so we know they're capable.

Why Destroids should be used. They pack a lot of fire power equal to or greater than most VFs. And except for the Spartan they all have long range weapons, so they will be killing enemies before the enemies can kill them.

I think a series with Destroids as the main mecha would be cool and be successful. There's been other series with successful ground mecha so a seires about destroids should work too. I think tho that if we see the destroids designs again it wil be in a Macross side story or they will be variable verisons like the VB-6.

Personally I'd love to see more grounds combat mecha variable of not.

[Lindem Herz]

I think a series with Destroids as the main mecha would be cool and be successful. There's been other series with successful ground mecha so a seires about destroids should work too. I think tho that if we see the destroids designs again it wil be in a Macross side story or they will be variable verisons like the VB-6.

Yeah, Gundam comes into my mind

Seriously now, I'd love to see some Tomahawk kicking action in a little colony defending itself against pirates. Maybe, VF equipped pirates. Destroids actually beating vfs using the old armor vs agility formula? I'd love to see some cocky pilot getting his ass shot down by tank driver

And because Macross wouldn't be Macross without some UN Spacy VF, let them send ONE VB-6 to help.

Anyway, ever since the Cheyenne appeared, we're getting our mix of destroid goodness. True, they still get blown up at a two per second rate, but, hell, aren't they cooler than the shitniz until then?

[wolfx]

I think a series with Destroids as the main mecha would be cool and be successful. There's been other series with successful ground mecha so a seires about destroids should work too. I think tho that if we see the destroids designs again it wil be in a Macross side story or they will be variable verisons like the VB-6.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Like a side-story kinda thing where the main guy is a not-so-heroic material dude. Just your average grunt Tomahawk pilot trying to protect the ones he loves on the SDF blablabla. Dreams to be a hotshot pilot.....ultimately failed pilot school due to poor g-force tolerance and had to get on a Tomahawk instead due to.

[dna]

And then gets blown to bits at the end like all Destroid pilots