Yamatos Macross Valkirie or Robotech Masterpiece

[Jasonc]

There's no right or wrong in this thread, just a matter of opinion. In that case, in makes it just that, an opinion. I love the 1/60s, 1/48s, 1/55s, and yes, the MPCs have their good points too. I did find the 1/60 very frustrating to change into different modes, and the MPC is a good toy to handle somewhat. Just go with what will suit your needs. If you could throw in a Bandai into the mix, I'd go with that. Those are always fun to play with and look neat on display. But that's just my opinion.

I believe in the unbiased opinion. I just want to know real information, price, and product that will suit my needs. Not someone else's bad deal. Those can help, but wow, what a question to open this old can of worms. Let it go, guys, you gotta let it go!

Edited March 19, 2004 by Jasonc

[Hurin]

There's no right or wrong in this thread, just a matter of opinion.

Ah, but someone is trying to say that all these opinions are meaningless, save one.

H

[Shinguuji]

can't we all get along w/o flaming each other? different people have different PERSPECTIVES, so no two of us see the same situation in the same manner, its only natural that opinions differ, can't we all just post our two cents and make constructive reviews? no one is right, neither is anyone wrong, its all a matter of perspective, we don't have to say that someone's review sucks, or that a particular review is '133t' or 'pwns', let us all approach this with an open mind so that we can benefit whoever is reading these posts, instead of hearing rants of how 133t someone's review is or how someone review sux....

[RTShark]

Disagree with my statement all you like. The fact is that I referred the guy to a fair and unbiased review and told him to make his own decision.

Well, my thoughts on the MPC are unbiased and fair. They are negative, yes, but unbiased does not mean neutral.

I gave the thing a fair shake, I bought it and didn't form any opinions on it until I saw it. No more can be asked than that.

I dislike it on it's own merits (or lack thereof) and not because it's sold in a box marked "Robotech."

[Hurin]

can't we all get along w/o flaming each other? different people have different PERSPECTIVES, so no two of us see the same situation in the same manner, its only natural that opinions differ, can't we all just post our two cents and make constructive reviews? no one is right, neither is anyone wrong, its all a matter of perspective, we don't have to say that someone's review sucks, or that a particular review is '133t' or 'pwns', let us all approach this with an open mind so that we can benefit whoever is reading these posts, instead of hearing rants of how 133t someone's review is or how someone review sux....

Ah! You must be new here.

[Ladic]

Just buy whichever you find for cheaper.

[Hurin]

Just buy whichever you find for cheaper.

Cheat crap is still crap.

[Blaine23]

The fact is that I referred the guy to a fair and unbiased review and told him to make his own decision.

Nothing against LebHead. But the fact is that nobody is unbiased. And, when you go out of your way to appear unbiased, you tend to overlook a lot of things that would otherwise be noted as flaws.

Looking at the Toynami overview on that page, it seems like a white-wash to me. It's more of a history lesson than a review. There is no mention of sculpt accuracy or even general appearance. It only vaguely refers to people getting upset about die-cast content and "QC issues."

So, well. . . I think the bias in that review is to seem unbiased. But when you try too hard to seem unbiased, you end up being too nice to all sides. Some things deserve criticizm.

Just my 2 cents.

H

I see your point... but I found the review to be a good overall comparison.

My intention with that word was to imply it was written by a fan of Macross AND RT... not one or the other.

I'm not going to get into a semantics argument over the use of the word, "unbiased", however... save that for your debate club.

My point was simple... alot of people like this toy over that toy and it's up to that person to make the decision. 200 people could (and probably will) reccomend Yammie over Toynami (myself included), but if 1 person disagrees - does that make his opinion invalid? Nope, just unpopular.

Either way, this thread pops up every month or so and the bloodletting begins anew. Seems a waste of time, effort, and bandwidth.

Personally, I'll let people make up their own minds as to what they like. If you have a criticism of Leb's review, then take it up with him.

Or better yet, attempt to do one yourself.

[Hurin]

The final thing I will say on this:

Everyone owes it to themselves to get at least one 1/48 Yamato before they go out and buy the whole line of 1/60s.

Why? Because it has been noted by some that after you get your hands on your first 1/48. . . actually get to own it, handle it, and get used to it. . . it's hard to consider spending hundreds on what may then seem to be an inferior line (1/60s).

Now, please, I realize some people still love the 1/60s even after they get some 1/48s. But, there are those who won't feel similarly and will be stuck with their 1/60s or will sell them at a loss.

I just think it is the safer bet to save up and buy one of each (perhaps even a 1/55 Bandai as well) before you go out and spend hundreds on a line you might not even like once you really see an alternative. In other words, spend $150 now to get a 1/48 rather than regret the $700 you spent on 1/60s that you then later regret.

So, my final advice would be: Start with a 1/48. Then get a 1/60. Then get a Bandai. At that point, make your decision about what you want to collect as in informed collector.

Sorry, but the Toynami MPCs don't even factor into this in my book. I just can't conceive of wanting them except for in a "completist" sense. I was sorely tempted when TMP was off-loading them for $29 each. But then I looked at my old MPC and reminded myself of why I never bought them when they were new.

Best Regards,

Hurin

[Jasonc]

Ha!!! Now your thinking like a shopper. Sometimes it's not about the articulation, or the leds, or the transformation. Sometimes it's just about $$$

Money, Money, Money, Money, Money,,, MOOONEY!!!

[Hurin]

Or better yet, attempt to do one yourself.

I think I just did. . .

Toynami:  Had one.  It was just pure crap.  Sorry, but it was.  Flimsy.  Inaccurate and ugly sculpt.  All of the drawbacks of the Banai ("chunky monkey") sculpt (swing bars) but with none of the durability.  I unloaded my only one on Ebay for a handsome profit (it was Rick Hunter 1J) a year after I bought it.

Bandai (Takatoku) 1/55:  I grew up with these.  But the sculpt and design really show their age.  They're really only good for nostalgia or unless you're going to be really rough with the toy you decide to buy.  I had a good collection of the original Takatokus (even GBP-1S Armor and VF-1S Strike) and then completed a Bandai re-release collection.  But, after getting a few Yamato 1/48s, I sold them all.  Even nostalgia wasn't enough to overcome the Yamato dominance.

Which brings us to Yamato:

Yamato 1/60:  To me, you'd really only want to get these if you don't have the cash for the 1/48 line.  The other things going for it are that there is now an enemy mecha (the Q-Rau, er. . . "female power armor") available in the 1/60 line and more may be coming.  Also, there are some valkyries available in 1/60 that will probably never be available in 1/48 scale (VF-1D, VT-1 Super Ostrich, etc.).

Yamato 1/48:  This is the ultimate Valk.  It's the biggest, most detailed, most accurately sculpted*, and just plain "WOW!  THAT'S PERFECT"-looking valkyrie toy ever made.  You can't go wrong, if you've got the money.  A 1/48 valk with the optional FAST Pack armor all decaled up. . . nothing beats it.

* Some would argue that the 1/60 is the more accurate sculpt.  But, to me, it just doesn't look quite right.  I think the 1/60 may be more accurate in the arms. . . but that's about it.  And I just never liked the way the heat shield looked on the 1/60s.  And, while the nose is reportedly very accurately sculpted on the 1/60, again, it just doesn't look right to me.

But, let's not turn this into a: "I appreciate Leb more than you!" thing. I love his site. It's a great resource. But that guide to toys isn't exactly a review. As I said, it is more of a history lesson. It is uncritical. A review is critical. That's its nature.

H

Edited March 19, 2004 by Hurin

[Wicked Ace]

Either way, this thread pops up every month or so and the bloodletting begins anew. Seems a waste of time, effort, and bandwidth.

I disagree with the "waste of time, effort, and bandwidth" part, but maybe this Hurin character will let me join his debate club. Anyway, somebody is always going to be new to a product most of us are familiar with, and just because it was a thread topic, last month, doesn't mean it is off limits, now. I don't really see the harm; it's not like new thread topics pop up every few seconds, like on some message boards.

Oh yeah, I happen to like the "bloodletting," too.

[danth]

What's all this talk of bloodletting and flaming and "can't we all just get along"? It looks like we are getting along and having a nice, vigorous debate. This right here is the bread and butter of internet forums.

The amount of polite restraint in this thread alone is heroic.

(Hey, you exaggerate...I exaggerate. )

[Uxi]

I like the MPC more than the Chunky Monkey. It's alot more posable and gerwalk is definately it's best aspect. It doesn't feel fragile like the Yamato (even the 1/48 with it's backpack area, in particular). It's not a bad buy at all... just don't pay too much ($50 bucks is reasonable IMO).

I like my 1/60 overall better than all of my other valks, though... especially to zoom around the house, etc better than the 1/48s (which are the best display pieces... just a tad too big, especially in Super/Strike trim, to actually pseudo-play with). Plus they have the largest selection of variants and such, as well.

[Blaine23]

What's all this talk of bloodletting and flaming and "can't we all just get along"? It looks like we are getting along and having a nice, vigorous debate. This right here is the bread and butter of internet forums.

The amount of polite restraint in this thread alone is heroic.

(Hey, you exaggerate...I exaggerate. )

Good point... we ARE actually getting along and playing nice, so far. But this is a subject that has been argued to death many times in the past and definitely HAS gotten nasty, in terms of personal insults and general upsetness.

The mods hate dealing with it when it gets ugly, so everybody do your best to stay civil and all is well.

Debate all you want... but most of the old-timers here and pretty bored with the subject - myself included. I made my suggestion to the new guy and I'm done with it.

I'd rather enjoy my toys than debate about them.

[bbarr97]

I am bored so I am going to throw my opinion in here.

I own some of the MPC collection and the 1/48 Yamato. I personally like both of them but there is no arguing that the 1/48 has the better sculpt and better quality. The only problem I have with the 1/48's is a lot of other items will not be made in that scale (i.e. Alpha/Legioss Fighters).

I like to have items in the same scale so I decided to stick with the MPC so I could have the Alpha fighters in the same scale also. I am going to try and make the 1/48 Imai Legioss model kits to go with the Yamato's valks.

I don't mind collecting both simply because the MPC can be found very cheaply these days. You can get the Max, Mirya, and both armor sets for $105. That is well worth the money. You can easily find Ben Dixon's around for as low as 35. I think they are worth that much money (but in NO WAY are the worth 80).

If you had lots of funds I highly recommend buying 1/48 yammies though. You will not be disappointed.

It simply depends on what you are looking for. I am keeping my hopes up the Toynami's MPC Alpha makes up for the problems with the VF-1's. So far, it looks pretty damn nice.

Forgot to mention, I like to tinker with the toys and I am making a lot of improvements to my MPC collection. It includes replacing magnets, tightening joints, and some painting. I like little projects like this which can make it a much better piece.

I have babbled incoherently enough.

Brad

[Uxi]

Oh yeah, and I agree with Blaine, Leb's site is about as unbiased and complete as is possible. In fact, I can't think of any other site with Leb's credibility in this community.

[Hurin]

Oh yeah, and I agree with Blaine, Leb's site is about as unbiased and complete as is possible.  In fact, I can't think of any other site with Leb's credibility in this community.

Okay, one more time: I like LebHead's site. It is great. Even the Toy Overview area is great, as far as it goes. But, it really doesn't give the details a truly descriminating buyer would need. For example. . .

Here is all it says regarding the 1/48 appearance/quality:

So last year Yamato made public their plans to create the ultimate valkyrie toy - a 1/48 scale detailed VF-1 with perfect transformation (no removable parts).

In Q4 of 2002, Yamato started shipping its first 1/48 VF-1, which was the DYRL Hikaru 1A model, the same version that launched Yamato's 1/60 line. The toy was met with incredible success, and won much accolade and awards from fans everywhere.

Here is all it says about MPC appearance/quality:

The MPC line was to be Toynami's crown jewel, and the culmination of George Sohn's dream. A highly detailed, fully transformable, perfect VF-1 Veritech Valkyrie toy. However, months of delays, mishandled orders, quality-control issues, and the lack of promised die-cast metal content fueled ire among Robotech fans everywhere. Many people felt let down by Toynami and George Sohn himself, but others stuck with the new toy company.

Now, the first MPC line is almost finished and product quality has improved drastically. There have been fewer reports of Q/C issues with each new volume, and the missing diecast content was put back in starting with the Ben Dixon VF-1A.

This is pretty vague. Sculpt accuracy is pretty much ignored. Q/C is only vaguely referred to. . . etc.

Look, nobody doubts that Leb is respected and credible. Everything he says above is true. However, in order to appear unbiased, it appears that the article leaves a lot of details out about each toy. So, for the purposes of this thread, it really doesn't answer any questions other than who each manufacturer is and which toy each manufactures. And, truly, I have a feeling that was the actual intent of Leb's article rather than to give a critical review of each one.

Leb's article, in my opinion, isn't even intended to answer the original purpose of this thread. It's a "who's who" of Macross toys. . . not a "Which is better quality" review of them.

If Leb ever comes here and reads this, I trust he'll understand what I'm trying to say and might even be less offended than those who for some reason feel the need to stick up for him when nobody is attacking him.

H

Edited March 19, 2004 by Hurin

[ewilen]

Y'know, there is a pinned topic on the MPC in the Other Anime section. Yes, I understand that a comparison topic bridges categories. But if this turns into a purely pro/anti MPC discussion, I think it should be moved over there.

Anyway, I'd suggest having a look at http://www.menet.umn.edu/~ngo/frame.html Note that the MPC's are in the Robotech section. The site doesn't really have reviews but you can tell by a few comments that the owner thinks poorly of the MPC's quality control and detailing. The pictures can help you judge for yourself about proportions and posability.

[fifbeat]

Y'know, there is a pinned topic on the MPC in the Other Anime section. Yes, I understand that a comparison topic bridges categories. But if this turns into a purely pro/anti MPC discussion, I think it should be moved over there.

I'm just curious, I'm not trying to start crap, but...

Why is everyone in this forum so set on wanting to move topics around just because they don't stay on-topic or are too related to existing topics (pinned or not).

Why don't we just let the chips fall where they may. Doesn't stuff always get out-of-topic?

It's kind of aggravating, especially when there is some good information going. I hate going back on here finding out threads have been closed or moved for the stupidest reasons.

I understand the diplomacy of this forum; but come on. Let's be a bunch of adults, and stop bitching about little things like: "This has been discussed and should be moved"....

I mean seriously, don't you guys have anything better to do?

[mechaninac]

This is getting good...

[Hurin]

I'm just curious, I'm not trying to start crap, but...

Why is everyone in this forum so set on wanting to move topics around just because they don't stay on-topic or are too related to existing topics (pinned or not).

Why don't we just let the chips fall where they may. Doesn't stuff always get out-of-topic?

It's kind of aggravating, especially when there is some good information going. I hate going back on here finding out threads have been closed or moved for the stupidest reasons.

I understand the diplomacy of this forum; but come on. Let's be a bunch of adults, and stop bitching about little things like: "This has been discussed and should be moved"....

I mean seriously, don't you guys have anything better to do?

I, Hurin, would like to state for the record that I do not endorse this view and would like to be fully divested from it and the thread in which it was stated. I do not wish to be involved in any pwn-age handed down by the MW-old-timers.

I wash my hands of this.

May God have mercy on your soul. . .

H

[Mechafan]

I says it depends on tastes and how much you are willing to spend. I have 1/48's, 1/60's, Bandai reissues and MPC's. All have thier good points and bad points. The 1/48 is the best of the bunch but at the same time costs the most. If you are displaying them only then any will do. It also depends on other factors too like your prefered scale, details, accessories, durability, articulation, and stability. Then the Yamato would be your best bet if you are not going to buy a lot of valks.

[eugimon]

ferget fifty bucks, I've seen new MPCs at videogame stores for 25 bucks.

about 25 bucks too much, imo

[Sumdumgai]

I'm just curious, I'm not trying to start crap, but...

Why is everyone in this forum so set on wanting to move topics around just because they don't stay on-topic or are too related to existing topics (pinned or not).

Why don't we just let the chips fall where they may. Doesn't stuff always get out-of-topic?

It's kind of aggravating, especially when there is some good information going. I hate going back on here finding out threads have been closed or moved for the stupidest reasons.

I understand the diplomacy of this forum; but come on. Let's be a bunch of adults, and stop bitching about little things like: "This has been discussed and should be moved"....

I mean seriously, don't you guys have anything better to do?

This is not a democracy.

The mods are peace-keepers that keep everyone in line and keep the forums nice and orderly for Shawn.

And for your information, Max is a NINJA!!!!!

[ewilen]

EDIT: my post was polite enough but that's besides the point. Fifbeat, if you don't like how things are done around here, please raise your concerns in the Feedback forum.

Edited March 19, 2004 by ewilen

[fifbeat]

Is the Feedback forum like THE PEOPLE'S COURT?

[brainiac_08]

I own one MPC roy

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE I MADE. GO WITH THE YAMMIE

J.J.

[Wicked Ace]

I'm just curious, I'm not trying to start crap, but...

ROTFLMAO!

[DrClay]

I own one MPC roy

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE I MADE. GO WITH THE YAMMIE

J.J.

I think this sums up the anti-MPC arguement perfectly, considerate MWers just want to help others benefit from their mistakes...

Personally, I LOVE the MPC.... Convoy, that is.

I own a roy MPC and I spent full price on it, and let me tell ya, it still irks me to this day how I got ripped off, I feel stupid for having bought it, I feel like a victim of a crime almost. I wouldn't want anyone else to have such a thing happen to them, even Hurin.

[Blaine23]

Is the Feedback forum like THE PEOPLE'S COURT?

Yep... except there's no Doug Llwelyn...

I'm just curious, I'm not trying to start crap, but...

Why is everyone in this forum so set on wanting to move topics around just because they don't stay on-topic or are too related to existing topics (pinned or not).

Why don't we just let the chips fall where they may. Doesn't stuff always get out-of-topic?

It's kind of aggravating, especially when there is some good information going. I hate going back on here finding out threads have been closed or moved for the stupidest reasons.

I understand the diplomacy of this forum; but come on. Let's be a bunch of adults, and stop bitching about little things like: "This has been discussed and should be moved"....

I mean seriously, don't you guys have anything better to do?

In all seriousness, we try to keep the board the way Shawn wants it. He pays the bills for us to post all these opinions and we respect that. We also try and respect the mods for having to deal with locking/moving threads, fighting members, etc.

It's just the way we do things around here and most of us are cool with it and see the logic in it.

Edited March 20, 2004 by Blaine23

[EXO]

I mean seriously, don't you guys have anything better to do?

If I had something better to do I'd be there doing that, and if I was there and I found something even better to do, I'd leave that and go to the other place...

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

best MPC review is ginrai's at masterforce.org I believe.

NOw as far as being fragile. The MPC believe it or not is more fragile than the 1/48. To meniether is really fragile.

MPCs have suspect qc and my rick MPC is a floppy mess while my ben MPC is much much more solid. tyhe later editions have much better qc.

The 1/48 aint fragile at all I rough mine up and stuff and to me it is defnitely a TOY. I proudly play with it KNOWING it will not break. here are my rankings on durability

1-1/55 bandai

2-1/48

3-MPC

4-1/60

The 1/60 will get loose over time...mine did and its legs fall out all the time and mine has cracked plastic near the hip area on teh nose.

THe MPC is not necesarily fragile jsuyt no where near as solid as the 1/55. It will not lock into place even close to as well as the 1/48.

[CID]

I guess debates and bassings are still going on

[Spiff]

Go ahead and buy the MPC... then you'll be taking it personal, too.

That is a truely classic qoute!