Why not the VF-1S for the cannon fodders?

[Valk009]

I am not sure if this has been asked before but just wanted to know why all the cannon fodders and all new pilots fly in the VF-1A and the high ranking pilots fly in the VF-1S.

Should the amateurs not fly in the VF-1S, seeing that they will have a better chance of surviving a battle with more fire power (four head mounted cannons instead of one)?

[Skull 0ne]

It's all a rank thing, just like in are own military.

Why give the more exspensive valk to a rookie that is more likely to lose it than a vet.

yeahhh, I just made it to the top of the "top ten posters of the day" list.

Edited March 15, 2004 by Skull 0ne

[Skippy438]

The VF-1S is more expensive, so there's really no point in giving pricier plane to a pilot who has a greater chance of not returning.

[Anubis]

The -S models were also tuned differently, and the special head denoted squadron commander. J models were given to flight leaders and certain Aces (Max and Millia for example who would have acted as their own flight group). The distinctions were a large part.

4 head lasers on every valk would also have been that much more costly, thus they probably used that as a reason to use one head laser on the majority of valkyries. Even later VF designs followed suit. The gunpod, missles, and the addition of fast packs kind of lessened the need for a couple more lasers. I would imagine 4 lasers would heat up faster than the single one as well with continuous fire.

[Opus]

It's a badge of rank. It's important for leaders to be easily distinguishable on the battlefield.

[JB0]

I would imagine 4 lasers would heat up faster than the single one as well with continuous fire.

I'd think the opposite.

Each laser has it's own barrel and cooling mechanism, so they won't speed up the overheating process.

BUT you can either fire at lower power or cycle through barrels. Thus, while each individual laser on a S would overheat at the same time as an A when fired the same, they have 3 more to use, so they can go longer.

[estacado06479]

iirc, there was a cannon fodder vf1s in one of the episodes of sdf macross, but i thought it was animation error.

[Aurel Tristen]

I am not sure if this has been asked before but just wanted to know why all the cannon fodders and all new pilots fly in the VF-1A and the high ranking pilots fly in the VF-1S.

Should the amateurs not fly in the VF-1S, seeing that they will have a better chance of surviving a battle with more fire power (four head mounted cannons instead of one)?

Because it was the VF-1A is the mass production model. There were few VF-1S models that were made. They would be more expensive because of more weapons and better avionics. The first VF-1S models' avionics were equal to the Block 12 VF-1A Avionics. And the S-type had better thrust.

[Anubis]

As for brown scheme 1S's, I'm sure those existed as well form some squadrons other than skull, just we never saw them.

[Hikuro]

In my opinion, that's like giving a hand gun to a 5 year old....you just don't do it...

[wolfx]

It's a badge of rank. It's important for leaders to be easily distinguishable on the battlefield.

In a battlefield, a commander is not supposed to stand out. That's why everyone wears the same uniform as grunts even in the battlefield. At least that's what I understand, and the practice of never saluting to your commanding officer because a sniper can shoot him.

[azrael]

J models were given to flight leaders and certain Aces (Max and Millia for example who would have acted as their own flight group).

They were their own flight group. After Hikaru permanently became Skull Squadron's commander, Max and Millia were given their own group within Skull squadron. In fact, Max was given his own group before the end of SWI. It was just a formality to get his 1A upgraded to a 1J.

[Opus]

It's a badge of rank. It's important for leaders to be easily distinguishable on the battlefield.

In a battlefield, a commander is not supposed to stand out. That's why everyone wears the same uniform as grunts even in the battlefield. At least that's what I understand, and the practice of never saluting to your commanding officer because a sniper can shoot him.

You've been watching too much TV. The battles are massive and involve hundreds of valks. If Roy orders the Skull Squad to form up on him how are they going to know where to go unless they can see him? There's also that whole Japanese warrior's pride thing going on.

[Valk009]

Thanks for all the replies !

I guess it does make sense afterall giving rookies less expensive piece of equipments since their chances of returning is far lower than pros!

But how come Hikaru started straight away with a 1J, guess he had the vitamin C (Connection) with Roy

[Yohsho]

Let's see Hikaru first knew Roy so that helps plus he has some skillz so that did help out. That and the first one he flew was the D.

[EXO]

From Tenjin's site. I don't know if it's canon...

http://www.tky.3web.ne.jp/~tenzin/macross/VFhead.html

[Skippy438]

It's a badge of rank. It's important for leaders to be easily distinguishable on the battlefield.

In a battlefield, a commander is not supposed to stand out. That's why everyone wears the same uniform as grunts even in the battlefield. At least that's what I understand, and the practice of never saluting to your commanding officer because a sniper can shoot him.

That's why they made the VF-1B, a basically a 1A with an S type head.

[Raptor]

It's obvious that the S's are more expensive than the A's...

It's been said that in WWII, there were no "average pilots:" you were either an ace or a target.

How else would you think that some people get massive amounts of kills, while others might get shot down their first day?

I think the same applies to Macross...

[KingNor]

o m g,

seriously! come on, its just 3 extra little lazers, and they almost never use them!!

the vf-1a isn't some kind of primitive death trap! its more or less an asthetic thing!!!!!

its just a thing they use to show rank, and its 90% looks. do we even know if the "specs" on these things say each lazer is the same strength? its possible 4 cannons share the same powerplant that the vf-1a's lazer uses. if thats the case you have one strong lazer vs 4 weaker.

really its just for looks! and the paint has more to do with surviveability than amount of lazers... brown = death, primarys = live (usually)

[JB0]

its just a thing they use to show rank, and its 90% looks. do we even know if the "specs" on these things say each lazer is the same strength? its possible 4 cannons share the same powerplant that the vf-1a's lazer uses. if thats the case you have one strong lazer vs 4 weaker.

Actually, they're spec'ced as the same kind of laser. So teh S really DOES have 4x the firepower. Thouogh the powerplant is the same(more or less), I think any fusion reactor that can drive a transforming jetplane and one laser can drive a transforming jetplane and 4 lasers

Not that anyone ever USES the lasers, so it's a moot point.

[Opus]

Not that anyone ever USES the lasers, so it's a moot point.

Hikaru uses them to save Misa in Alaska base.

[Anubis]

The lases were probably used quite often, especially for incoming missles. Or if a regult strayed under you.

Edited March 15, 2004 by Anubis

[Raptor]

It's not just lasers... The S has enhanced sensors and stronger engines.

[Prime]

Wasn't it the only one in the VF-1 series that did?

[azrael]

Wasn't it the only one in the VF-1 series that did?

No. The VF-1X also has the same. So do the VF-1A Block 12 designs. However, for it's time, the VF-1S (circa 2009) was an improvement compared the the 1As and 1Js. However, that would not be so afterwards.

[newca]

I still don't get it, how much more expensive will S type be with extra 3 laser cannon than A?? it's a mass production transformable killing machine! any one ever make a count of the VF-1 total loss in MACROSS TV version? they save 3 laser cannon to make more Valks? holy god! take my donation

for "ranking theory", in MACROSS ZERO #2, when Shin's VF-0D is training with Focker's OS, his HUD and other MFDs shows "target" info, so I guess there will be more advance foe identify system on the "later" VF-1 family, right? so why make Sqd leaders so well marked? or just show off?

I agree Anubis, "The lases were probably used quite often, especially for incoming missles", it's just 3 more lasers! give those rookies, their survive chances maybe higher! in such a long time space trip/fighting, the most important resource of MACROSS is "population" IMHO!

[Myriad]

Silly Fanboys........

If all the Valks look the same the toys would be less marketable. Variety helps with profit margins.

[KingNor]

The lases were probably used quite often, especially for incoming missles.  Or if a regult strayed under you.

you say that, yet in the show and movie when ever missles need to be shot down, its the gunpod they use.

the only times i can think of a vf using its head lazers is when skull01 burns a hole in a door with them (took it a good long time too) and when skull 01 used them to kill a battle pod.

i dont' even recall if i EVER saw it fired while in jet or gerwalk mode.

i really just don't think the extra guns would make any significant diffrence.

besides someone already said that all 4 guns use the same power plant. so the combined force of the four lazers on the vf-1s is as strong as the one lazer on the vf-1a. compair it to having 4 flashlights hooked up to a battery compaired to one flashlight.

but even if all four lazers were stronger than the one on the vf1a. that STILL woudln't make the vf1a a death trap. FOR THE MOST PART its the same exact jet. the vf1s apparently has a FEW extra gizmos.

like i keep saying, its asthetic, a macross pilots best chance at survival is to become a main character of the show, preferably in something that isn't brown. but even then roy gets killed and hes got this super-safe-cuz-it-has-four-head-lazer vf-1s

Hikarus vf1j has two head lazers and he got shot down twice didn't he? skull one's pilot was killed. the lazers on the head of the damn thing just don't matter that much!

Ben (duno his macross name) vf-1a = dead

Roy vf-1s = dead

if you're playing the percentages the vf1s doesn't prove itself to be brilliantly more worthy.

Edited March 17, 2004 by KingNor

[ewilen]

besides someone already said that all 4 guns use the same power plant. so the combined force of the four lazers on the vf-1s is as strong as the one lazer on the vf-1a. compair it to having 4 flashlights hooked up to a battery compaired to one flashlight.

No, it's really more like having four lamps plugged into your home electrical sockets than one. The Valk's engines can (almost certainly) produce way more power than a single laser can handle.

[JB0]

besides someone already said that all 4 guns use the same power plant.  so the combined force of the four lazers on the vf-1s is as strong as the one lazer on the vf-1a.  compair it to having 4 flashlights hooked up to a battery compaired to one flashlight.

No, it's really more like having four lamps plugged into your home electrical sockets than one. The Valk's engines can (almost certainly) produce way more power than a single laser can handle.

Indeed, as evidenced by the fact that it can fire the lasers while in operation.

[Opus]

i dont' even recall if i EVER saw it fired while in jet or gerwalk mode.

In DYRL max takes a shot a Millia with the 1S head in fighter mode.

I seem to remember that the real deal with the different heads is that they came from different manufacturers. Sorta like how Jeep M38's have verticle grills and Ford M38's have horizontal grills.

[the white drew carey]

In WWII, why did grunts gets Garands and higher ups get Tommy Guns?

Give the less costly machine to the inexperienced pilot.

Also, people with combat experience and high training are generally considered more valuable the newbies, so they're provided with stronger defensive capabilities.

[ewilen]

Opus is correct. The 1A head was the original design and was manufactured by Northrom. The 1J head was designed by Kyuusei Industry, but the 1J itself was manufactured by Shinnakasu. The 1S was an upgraded version of the 1J design; the 1S itself was manufactured by Northrom.. From the Compendium entry:

VF-1A: Standard UN Spacy version manufactured by licensee Northrom. One head-turret-mounted RÖV-20 laser gun.

VF-1J: Version manufactured by licensee Shinnakasu Heavy Industry and assigned to air team and squadron leaders. Two RÖV-20 laser guns on improved Kyuusei-Industry-designed head unit. The out-of-sequence "J" designation is believed to represent the abbreviation of the region of its origin.

VF-1S: Version manufactured in limited numbers by licensee Northrom and assigned to squadron leaders and CAGs. Four RÖV-20 laser guns, enhanced avionics identical to VF-1A's Block 12 design, newly-redesigned Kyuusei Industry head turret, improved FF-2001D engine with greater engine thrust.

BTW, I can think of three occasions when the head lasers were used in the series: 1) By Roy to knock down a passing Zentradi vehicle (probably Regult) in episode 2 or 3. 2) By Hikaru, Max, and Kakizaki in a failed attempt to cut through a Zentradi bulkhead after they enter Britai's ship. 3) By Hikaru to get Misa out of the Grand Cannon. (I know some of these have been mentined already.)

Edited March 18, 2004 by ewilen

[azrael]

In WWII, why did grunts gets Garands and higher ups get Tommy Guns?

Privileges of rank....But there were instances of officers carrying Garands instead of a M1 carbine or a M1 Thompson. But that was to fill the ranks of the squad. Officers didn't need to be in the line-of-fire all the time so they didn't need to lug around the 4 kg Garand. Same with the heavy equipment troops. A Garand is way too much to carry so they would take a M1 Carbine. In some cases, your machine gun may be too much to move around (takes 2 guys to move it) so you may designate someone in the squad to carry a SMG and it doesn't have to be an officer. It could be a Sgt. or someone else. But keep in mind that a Garand and a M1 Thompson weigh about the same. And if you're going on a mission where walking is involved, it might be better to take a Garand where you're carrying 80-128 rounds over 200-300 rounds for the SMG.