Film adaptations of SF literature

[ewilen]

Which adaptations of SF books or short stories have you liked?

Preferably, adaptations of stuff you've read--and please say if you read it before or after seeing the movie.

Personally, I love 2001, but I can't remember if I read the book before or after.

I liked both versions of The Thing a lot, and I read the short story "Who Goes There" well before.

As noted in another thread, I enjoyed Starship Troopers--again, well after reading the book--but I'm aware that puts me in a distinct minority.

I enjoyed the Russian version (Tarkovsky directed) of Solaris. Haven't seen the Clooney version. I think I actually read (or skimmed) the book afterwards, but I'd already read a ton of Lem before seeing the movie.

I also liked Total Recall & Blade Runner, but I haven't read the original Dick stories.

Can't think of any others for the moment.

Discuss. What's good adaptation material? What has to be done for an adaption? What do you think are good candidates that haven't been done?

[GobotFool]

Which adaptations of SF books or short stories have you liked?

Preferably, adaptations of stuff you've read--and please say if you read it before or after seeing the movie.

Personally, I love 2001, but I can't remember if I read the book before or after.

I liked both versions of The Thing a lot, and I read the short story "Who Goes There" well before.

As noted in another thread, I enjoyed Starship Troopers--again, well after reading the book--but I'm aware that puts me in a distinct minority.

I enjoyed the Russian version (Tarkovsky directed) of Solaris. Haven't seen the Clooney version. I think I actually read (or skimmed) the book afterwards, but I'd already read a ton of Lem before seeing the movie.

I also liked Total Recall & Blade Runner, but I haven't read the original Dick stories.

Can't think of any others for the moment.

Discuss. What's good adaptation material? What has to be done for an adaption? What do you think are good candidates that haven't been done?

Just want to be the 1st to note that 2001 is a adaptation of the short story "The Sentinal" by Arthur C Clarke, the book 2001 was made as a companion book to the movie.

Blade Runner and the book 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep' are very different in plot and charactor structure but still the movie I felt remained true to the theme's presented in the book. The responsibility of man, the dehuminization of man, all in relation to his creations. The movie adresses all these with a poetic grace lacking in the novel.

Solaris is a facinating book, Man's smallness to the universe, understanding inner truth before outer truth, the Clooney film touched superficially upon these topics, and really got wrong the theological overtones presented in the novel.

The above statements are just opinion.

Anyone hear that they are gonna make an enders game movie? I smell disaster.

Edited March 13, 2004 by GobotFool

[bsu legato]

Good adaptations? So that means Battlefield Earth is out? Oh wait, the novel was just an bunch of Scientoligical nonsense to begin with.

Blade Runner actually changes much of the book, but in my opinion it was for the better. However, the look of the movie is exactly waht Dick had in mind when he wrote the book.

[Effect]

I honestly would love to see Ender's Game made into a film or a mini-series. Maybe do the setup Kill Bill used about releasing them really close behind each other if made into a movie. I would think 2 would be needed to really do the book justice. Or the Dune/Children of Dune mini-series setup would work as well with 3 episodes at around 2 hours each.

[Pat Payne]

I'd like to see Foundation made into a movie, but as a disjointed collection of short stories (and Asimov really didn't do movie-style action conflict: his was more cerebral at least in the books I've read of his) they might not translate well to a popcorn audience. Also any of the DiscWorld novels might make for good movies.

[maxjenius81]

It wasnt faithful persay, but I still enjoyed it, Starship Troopers. Yeah not the greatest, but I really liked the combat scenes and the clever way that Verhoven slid some of the books social-political commentary into the movie so that if you dig a little, the books spirit is still there. Though I dont really approve of making Dizzy a girl.... , oh and the new sequal is going to suck.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

i for one loved the treatment Sci-fi gave the adaptations of Dune/Dune Messiah/Children of Dune in the two miniseries. much closer to the feel of the books than the movie. they need to make the last 3 books(God Emperor/Heretics/Chapterhouse), which are awesome.

The David Lynch version, on the other hand was abysmal. i'd take my name off it too if i was him.

are they really making a Starship Troopers sequel? terrible idea.

[maxjenius81]

Yeah, it gets really good too, ITS DIRECT TO VIDEO! And from the trailer, it looks like its survival horror, which i like a lot, but not for starship troopers. It wuold be like making a macross surivial horror....

[Effect]

I've seen the previews for Starship Troopers 2, should be on Starz I think in April. I for one enjoy the movie but liked the CG series more. I'm going to be picking up the book this weekend if I can to see what it really is like.

I agree, the Dune and Children of Dune(including Dune Messiah) were really good. Far better then the movie. I've never read the last three novels but I hope to some day.

[gnollman]

I actually can't think of a single case of a good film adaptation of an existing SF novel... one that I actually thought did a good job of approximating the book....

I'm not a fan of the SciFi channel adaptation of Dune... they were a lot closer, yes, but still missed by so far, in my opinion. And as far as I'm concerned, the Lynch version is best treated as an unhappy coincidence of shared name...

One series I would like to see, though would be the Larry Niven Ringworld stuff or the Brin Uplift Wars series. That would be seriously cool.

[ewilen]

GobotFool--thanks for the correction on 2001. I think I did know that the book was written concurrently with the movie, but I'd forgotten. And I was completely unaware of the short story.

I just thought of another movie adaption--Planet of the Apes. The original, Charleton Heston version, which to me is an absolute classic. I've never read the book, though, and from what I've heard, very little of the novel actually made it to the screen. The "remake" (which really has nothing to do with the original movie, and probably just as little to do with the book) succeeded in not being boring, but that's about all. It had none of the depth of the original. Yet, the sequel just might redeem it. (There is a sequel planned, isn't there?)

There's a lot about Ender's Game which I liked, but also much that I would toss, especially all the stuff about his siblings. Not sure I liked the epilogue, either. Wasn't it originally a short story? I think it could easily be done in a two-hour movie. Sort of a sci-fi Searching for Bobby Fisher/English private school drama. (Has anyone read The Compleet Molesworth? A very funny book, which nevertheless shares something of the atmosphere of Ender's Game.)

An SST sequel is utterly pointless. Sounds as dumb as The Fly II.

Oh, and as for suggestions of books worth adapting--I think Downbelow Station has much to recommend it for either a series or a movie, although I'm frankly not too crazy about the portrayal of the natives. They're just too loveable and innocent--like Ewokized Wookies. So I'd cut them or modify them severely.

Edited March 14, 2004 by ewilen

[Agent ONE]

I read Alodius Huxley's Brave New World, when I was in junior high. The book was cool, it was about the future, a pretty good one if you ask me. Drugs, constant group sex, no consequences to most actions that aren't violent... I think the book was trying to imply that these things were bad. What a crock. Anywho, the ending sucked.

The movie that was derived from this was Demolition Man, this was way more kick ass, no girly-men crying about what is right and wrong, just Stalone throwing weak lame asses through plate glass windows and blowing stuff up... There was some porking, which gets the thumbs up from Agent ONE and the ending was great!

[Duke Togo]

The David Lynch version, on the other hand was abysmal. i'd take my name off it too if i was him.

Frank Herbet in known to have really liked the Lynch film. And Lynch only asked that his named be removed the the a longer unauthorized cut of the film, which I do not believe is actually commercially available.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

Duke, the version shown on TV quite often does not have Lynch's name anywhere on it, either.

i also know Hebert saw the film and liked it, but i think had he been alive, he would have enjoyed the much more faithful adaptations Sci-fi has done.

[JELEINEN]

The problem is that there are few real book adaptations out there. Most are just loosely based on some ideas in a given book or story. Frex, Total Recall and We Can Remember It For You, Wholesale are absolutely nothing alike, except for having a guy who's memory has been tampered with (and both are good works). Likewise, Starship Troopers the movie and the book only have the fact that the enemy are vageuly insect-like (it's been pointed out many times that had they named the movie something else, nobody would ever have noticed).

As for my favorite movie version of an SF book, I'll go with Farenheit 451. A lot of little extra touches, like the opening credits being spoken rather than in writing showed the people who made the film had actually read the book and understood what it was about.

[the white drew carey]

2001 is an interesting situation.

Yes, it was based on The Sentinel, which has been mentioned by Gobotfool.

But the book clearly culminates around Saturn, not Jupiter like the movie. And all subsequent books in the series (2010, 2063 and 3001) center on Jupiter.

Why...

Why?

Why!!?!?!?!!

Because Kubrick wasn't satisfied with the FX for Saturn, so he had them redo everything for Jupiter instead.

Clarke just flowed with the punches and altered everything.

This has just been a little bit of trivia, to "wow" your friends.

As to sci-fi made into movies that I'm happy with (as opposed to simply enjoying)?

I'd have to say there is only one:

The Tripods.

a BBC series based on The Tripods Trilogy by John Christopher (The White Mountains, The City of Gold and Lead and The Pool of Fire.)

Although the series focused more on the first book, it definitely had significant (and directly translated) parts from the books.

Sci-Fi's adaptations (thus far) of the Dune works have been fairly well done. CoD should've been sperated as the two books were , but by being a longer mini-series, it simplpy covered the same work under a common name.

Blade Runner is well done because, even though it changes the original story, it does keep the same idea upon which the novel was founded (unlike Running Man or SST).

Edited March 14, 2004 by the white drew carey

[Isamu Atreides 86]

Sci-Fi's adaptations (thus far) of the Dune works have been fairly well done. CoD should've been sperated as the two books were , but by being a longer mini-series, it simplpy covered the same work under a common name.

which is fine, i think, because the film makers hit all the major points of the Dune Messiah (Muad'dib's blinding, Chani's Death and Leto and Ghanima's birth) into the series. they did mess up on Alya's Age. she should have been much younger in the Messiah Parts (not that i'm complaining, since the Actress was smoking hot), and Leto and Ghani should have been quite young as well. other than that, they did pretty well.

I Love all the Dune Books, but to me it seems that Dune Messiah was a transitory book, shifting the status quo from Dune to the one in Children of Dune and onwards, basically the deconstruction of Muad'dib's Myth.

[MSW]

I'm a huge P.K.Dick fan...

"Blade Runner" - a lot of stuff is changed, but as PKD was still alive when the film was made, and he has written warmly of the films script...I guess this film adaptation is pretty good, and certainly more action packed then the book

"Total Recall" - a lot of stuff is changed, but then again it's basied on a short story...works pretty well

"Screamers" - another short story that went through changes in being brought to the big screen...okay flick

"Minority Report" - short story inspired piece, again lots of changes...especialy changes the moral chrisis the character goes through...Okay flick

"Imposter" - yet another short story inspired flick with lots of changes...tis okay

"Paycheck" - another short story piece, but I haven't seen the film yet...at least from the previews it looks to take place in modern times so it may remain somewhat truer to the source material...but then again it's got Ben in it

I'm prolly overlooking a P.K.D. film or two...But from what I've heard a film version of "A Scanner Darkly" is being made I'd think, that would be pretty damn difficult if not impossable to pull off ... But I just wish someone would make a film version of "the Electric Ant"

As for others:

"Starship Troopers" - the CGI animated roughnecks show was tons better (and I HATE CGI!)

"Dune" - I liked the look of the Lynch film far, FAR better then the "sci-fi generic" look of the mini-series (but I liked the miniseries better for remaining closer to the book)...maybe some day we will get an animated (NOT CGI!!) version which I think is the perfect film medium for the story...

[Duke Togo]

Duke, the version shown on TV quite often does not have Lynch's name anywhere on it, either.

i also know Hebert saw the film and liked it, but i think had he been alive, he would have enjoyed the much more faithful adaptations Sci-fi has done.

The version often shown on Sci-Fi is the longer unauthorized cut.

I believe the Lynch version captures the tone and feeling of the book much better than the new versions, and, when you get right down to it, the movie simply looks better. Its like comparing DYRL to SDF Macross. The sets, effects, and costumes for the new version looked like your stardard low budget made for TV cheesy sci-fi movie.

Of course, this isn't even taking into account the superior cast of the movie.

[ewilen]

Okay, just remembered another one. (I'm skipping over stuff I know is adapted but which I don't particularly like. But I will mention parenthetically that I saw a TV version of Brave New World a while back and I sort of liked it even though it was kind of cheesy.)

A Boy and His Dog was pretty good. Haven't read the short story. The movie was weird, and very dark. Probably had some problems plotwise. And I can't say I exactly enjoyed the ending (I'm a dog lover, but I'm not a misogynist). But it had integrity in its own sick way.

[ewilen]

Haven't read Dune. Saw a version of the movie. Although it was very uneven, and much of it was ludicrous, it definitely leaves an impression. The thing I remember really hating about it was the use of voiceovers to represent various characters' thoughts. Was this ever removed?

[gnollman]

I kind of thought everyone had read Dune.... It's like The Lord of the Rings for Sci-Fi....

But no, they never removed the voiceovers. It's kind of a crucial part of the Dune movie.

My thoughts on the Dune movie...

I enjoy it. It's pretty, and I think it's well acted. I don't, however, consider it as Dune.

Kind of like how I treat BGC and BGC 2040.... that way I can like both of them without conflict.

[yellowlightman]

I thought the Total Recall short story was really, really hokey. The ending reaked of stupid SF cheese, and in that respect, the movie wins out.

Howabout Johnny Mnemonic? I'm a big Gibson fan but the JM movie sucked. New Rose Hotel (which was one of Gibson's earlier short works) was made into an indy movie starring Christopher Walken and Willam Defoe and was pretty good, although quite "artsy."

[Radd]

As far as the Dune movie goes, here's my take on it.

Cons:

Horrible, atrocious acting.

Worse dialogue.

Introduces concepts that not only have nothing to do with the book, but directly conflict with some of the themes and ideas in the book. Duke Leto was supposed to be incredibly charismatic, with insansely loyal and well trained followers. In that sense, he was seen as a threat to the Emperor, even though he was completely loyal to the Emperor. In the movie, however, they made it out as though his army had developed a new weapon. That's just one of the changes.

Pros:

The movie was abso-freaking-beautiful. The costumes, the set designs, all absolutely gorgeous. THAT is how Dune should look.

Lynch also did an excellent job directing, despite the horrible actors. In fact, one of the things that made him walk away from the project was the actors. So I hear.

The music was great. Too bad the soundtrack is so hard to find, and then there's several versions each with different sets of music with a lot of overlapping.

I like the Dune movie, despite it's faults. Mainly because of the look and feel of the film. If the same thing could be accomplished, but with a better screenplay that was more true to the books, and good acting, then you would have a movie that would be pretty much perfect.

I'd also take the Lynch movie over the Sci-Fi channel miniseries, which had equally bad acting, horrible costumes and set designs, worse special effects, forgettable music, and while the screenplay was more true to the books than the movie's, it still messed with some aspects.

[Duke Togo]

Lynch also did an excellent job directing, despite the horrible actors. In fact, one of the things that made him walk away from the project was the actors. So I hear.

You do realize you have no clue what you are talking about, right? You might want to look at the cast list before you say things like "despite the horrible cast", and David Lynch did not "walk away" from this film. You'll take much less abuse when you have your facts straight.

[Vostok 7]

There was a book by Herbert that was a collection of short stories called Eye which IIRC had his commentary on Lynch's version of the movie.

I think he said it was the best they could do with what they had (in the 80s)...

However, it is also my belief that he would have preferred the Sci-Fi miniseries versions, simply because they are nearly 100% accurate to the books...

Vostok 7

[Radd]

Lynch also did an excellent job directing, despite the horrible actors. In fact, one of the things that made him walk away from the project was the actors. So I hear.

You do realize you have no clue what you are talking about, right? You might want to look at the cast list before you say things like "despite the horrible cast", and David Lynch did not "walk away" from this film. You'll take much less abuse when you have your facts straight.

If I'm wrong I certainly appreciate hearing so, but if there's nothing to back up the correction and I don't hear it from anyone else...well, I have to take it with a grain of salt. Here's what I've heard and what I know.

I know the acting in the movie was wretched, most of it at least. There were some excellent actors in that movie, but there was also a lot of really terrible acting.

Perhaps I should expand on the 'excellent job directing' comment, or at least clarify, I mean as far as the feel and mood of the film. The look. The camera angles (except for the extreme close-ups. The movie could have done without those). Maybe Lynch is to blame for the acting, not giving the actors enough input. I don't know, I wasn't hanging around the studio when the film was made.

What I heard though is that Lynch was very unhappy with many of the actors' performances. That, along with several other creative dissagreements (which also lead to a couple major cast changes, at least over who played the Emperor), and other problems plaguing the production lead to the movie basically being 'shoved out the door' and into theatres.

I also heard that the Dune movie was originally intended to be two movies, both based on the first book, however Lynch had had enough and everything was thrown together into a single film and left at that. If this is incorrect please let me know.

As for the idea that I'll take much less abuse if I have my facts straight...well...I completely agree. I often find people agreeing with me, then again I often have sources to quote. All this is hearsay, so I welcome any solid sources for better information.

I also did state that this was simply my take on it, not the entire facts of the situation.

[Radd]

I should, though, rescind my statement about bad actors. Perhaps all of the actors in the film were really good, I know I've seen excellent actors give terrible performances before. That statement I should have thought out more.

[Duke Togo]

If I'm wrong I certainly appreciate hearing so, but if there's nothing to back up the correction and I don't hear it from anyone else...well, I have to take it with a grain of salt. Here's what I've heard and what I know.

I know the acting in the movie was wretched, most of it at least. There were some excellent actors in that movie, but there was also a lot of really terrible acting.

That's not what you originally said, but I think we both understand eachother's points, now.

What I heard though is that Lynch was very unhappy with many of the actors' performances. That, along with several other creative dissagreements (which also lead to a couple major cast changes, at least over who played the Emperor), and other problems plaguing the production lead to the movie basically being 'shoved out the door' and into theatres.

I also heard that the Dune movie was originally intended to be two movies, both based on the first book, however Lynch had had enough and everything was thrown together into a single film and left at that. If this is incorrect please let me know.

Which, like the first quote, is completely different from your original statement. Personally, I like the quote from Rolling Stone magazine from an interview with Lynch about Dune...

While discussing the standard set by Star Wars and Lynch turning down Jedi to direct Dune:

What did Lucas have to say about the making of Dune? "Well, he did say that you couldn´t make the book into a movie." Lynch folded his hands and nodded. "It´s pretty true."

Edited March 14, 2004 by Duke Togo

[Duke Togo]

There was a book by Herbert that was a collection of short stories called Eye which IIRC had his commentary on Lynch's version of the movie.

I think he said it was the best they could do with what they had (in the 80s)...

However, it is also my belief that he would have preferred the Sci-Fi miniseries versions, simply because they are nearly 100% accurate to the books...

Vostok 7

Its been a long while since I watched the Sci-Fi series, but I know that statement is certainly not true.

[bsu legato]

I'm far from an authority on Dune, but the Lynch movie is one of those troubled productions you hear about that span a decade or so. From what I understand, Dune was attempted several times during the 70's but it wasn't until Lynch's production that it made it to film. For what its worth, I prefered the 4 hour cut of the film (which I believe may be available on DVD overseas). I've never read Dune, so I really appreciated the introductory narration that version featured. The theatrical cut just kind of threw you into this world of spice, navigator guilds and Bene Gessirates (sp?) and left you to make of it what you would. The look of the film is gorgeous, but I'm inclined to agree that some of the performances were a little flat. I think the bulk of this comes from Kyle MacLachlan's whispery voiceover for much of the important exposition.

[the white drew carey]

IIRC, there's a big hoopla over the thought that a previous iteration of the film by a different director would've possibly been much better, and much cheaper.

I am kind of biased though, because I think David Lynch is terribly over-rated.

[Radd]

That's not what you originally said, but I think we both understand eachother's points, now.

I apologize. That was what I did originally mean, but yeah, it did come out muddled and unclear.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Paul Verhoven should have been buried up to his neck in an Amazonian ant pile and left to rot for the travesty called Starship Troopers. NOTHING about that movie was redeeming. Every last ounce of celluloid should be burned in memory of Heinlein's classic novel.

[GobotFool]

There was a book by Herbert that was a collection of short stories called Eye which IIRC had his commentary on Lynch's version of the movie.

I think he said it was the best they could do with what they had (in the 80s)...

However, it is also my belief that he would have preferred the Sci-Fi miniseries versions, simply because they are nearly 100% accurate to the books...

Vostok 7

Its been a long while since I watched the Sci-Fi series, but I know that statement is certainly not true.

Major differences and ommission I noticed in the Dune Mini-series

Paul is supposed to be 15, in the movie and series he looks at least 23 to 25.

He had mentate training as well as BG training.

Princess Irulian's role was played up to an absurd degree in the miniseries. In the book, her primary presence is made felt in little excerpts from the history books she authors after the events of Dune.

The charactors of Hawatt, Dr Yuea are really down played. The mini-series implies that Hawatt dies in the Harkonon attack, this is flat out wrong.

The Political methodology and philosophy of Dune really does not carry over to the screen well.

The cronology of events are a little off as well.

Those are all the major differences that stick out in my head as of now.

Still the MS did tell the story of Dune better than the movie. Though the movie was probably closer to the look Frank Herbert envisioned.

Edited March 15, 2004 by GobotFool