Yamato Miria's QUEADLUUN-RAU

[lmusso]

Hi everybody, I'm opening this discussion about the relative scale of the QUEADLUUN-RAU with regard to the scale of 1/60 valkyries. I cannot believe guys at Yamato didn't notice the total lack of relation between the 1/60 QR and 1/60 Valks. According to the history, Valks were developed that size because the Army knew in advance the "size" of the enemy: Valks in battroid mode are equal in size to Zentraedis. In fact, this is told by Roy Fokker to Rick Hunter in one of the first chapters.

Now check the relative size of the Miria's figure inside the QR and the size of a 1/60 valkyrie and tell me ... (you can read the review @ Macross World)

[EXO]

The valyries' size related the evidence found on the SDF-1, which could have been anything that survived the crash, i. e. uniforms, doorways, equipment. Macross 0 should hav more clue.

Welcome to MW and check out this link...

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=228

[imode]

Blame it on anime magic :/

[JB0]

According to the history, Valks were developed that size because the Army knew in advance the "size" of the enemy: Valks in battroid mode are equal in size to Zentraedis. In fact, this is told by Roy Fokker to Rick Hunter in one of the first chapters.

You're quoting Robotech specs,which are WAY off-base.

They assume Britai is normal, when he's big for a zentradi.

The QRau, and the Millia figure inside it, are EXACTLY right compared to the 1/60 Yamato VF-1.

Check macross.anime.net.

Specifically, Millia's height in the characters section, the QRau's height in the mecha section, and the VF-1 battroid height in the mecha section.

[Hurin]

What Exo said. Plus:

Nobody (including Roy) ever said that the battroids were exactly the same size as a zentraedi. Rather, it was said that the valkyries were designed to combat the zentraedi who were known to be giants.

In other words: Just because they were designed to combat the zentraedi does not mean that they need to be the same size as them. Indeed, if I were designing a battroid, I'd make it bigger than the opponents it would be facing.

Further, they may (though I doubut it) have wanted to make the battroid smaller, but found it impossible to create a transorming freakin' jet any smaller than what eventually became the VF-1.

So. . . the scale is correct according to the stats. . . and math.

This reminds me of the guy who accused Yamato of stupidity and wanted everyone to get upset with them for painting "UN SPACY" on the legs of the VF-1J Hikaru 1/48. But, funny thing was. . . the UN SPACY was supposed to be there.

Preconceptions are a dangerous thing when asserting somebody/thing is wrong.

Best Regards,

Hurin

P.S. This is Macross discussion board. If you don't want to be flamed by the purists, quickly learn the original names for the characters and mecha. Example: "Rick Hunter" = Hikaru Ichijo

Edited March 11, 2004 by Hurin

[ewilen]

The size is right. Please see the data in the mecha files at http://macross.anime.net/

[lmusso]

OK, it's clear to me now that the size is the correct one. It was not my intention to blame Yamato, in fact, I own several figures from them and think they're the best around.

Anyway, you have to admit that Zentraedis are equal in size to valks: remember the first encounter (Hikaru defending Macross island), the fight with Britai, the scape (Max covers his valk with a "standard" soldier's suit), and so on. Miria here is the exception that confirms the rule! I know, I know ... "check the specs for the correct sizes...", but I was referring to what is seen in the TV series ...

Regards everybody!

[EXO]

I think it's clear that the specs always come after the fact . The Zentraedi on South Ataria Island that held on to the VF-1D was pretty much bigger than the one on that scale reference. Macross's explanation for creating giant robots is still ingenius today in my view.

[JB0]

OK, it's clear to me now that the size is the correct one. It was not my intention to  blame Yamato, in fact, I own several figures from them and think they're the best around. 

Anyway, you have to admit that Zentraedis are equal in size to valks: remember the first encounter (Hikaru defending Macross island), the fight with Britai, the scape (Max covers his valk with a "standard" soldier's suit), and so on. Miria here is the exception that confirms the rule! I know, I know ... "check the specs for the correct sizes...", but I was referring to what is seen in the TV series  ...

Regards everybody!

Actually, that's a stellar example of animation problems. Along with the nose lasers, and the 3-lasered variant(Robotech's YF-1R), and so on.

The average Zentradi was always intended to be shorter than the battroid.

Britai was intended to be an unusually large Zentradi.

Edited March 11, 2004 by JB0

[LocoMacross]

What I see with the zentraedi is that the height depends on their rank, mostly, and with Max using the uniform to escape it was an officer's uniform so that may explain the size. smoething to think about

[Hurin]

Anyway, you have to admit that Zentraedis are equal in size to valks:

No. . . I don't.

What I will admit is that some animators can be sloppy and/or that you never actually see a battroid standing beside that zentraedi in the first episode.

As for Britai, he's a lot taller than your average zentraedi. . . and Dolza is even taller than he. So, that's not a good comparison. But others have already addressed this. . .

H

[JB0]

What I see with the zentraedi is that the height depends on their rank, mostly, and with Max using the uniform to escape it was an officer's uniform so that may explain the size. smoething to think about

Which raises an interesting question...

Are zentradi bred for their rank, with higher-ranking positions filled with larger, more authoritative bodies?

Do they use the miclone system to adjust size with major promotions?

Do they just keep growing through their life and after the ages it takes to rise to a rank like Britai or Bodlozaa's you have amassed quite a large height?

Or was it a freakish coincidence that the highest-ranked warriors had the largest bodies?

[EXO]

They're cloned... genetically engineered. No promotions,no growth and no coincedences.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

What I see with the zentraedi is that the height depends on their rank, mostly, and with Max using the uniform to escape it was an officer's uniform so that may explain the size. smoething to think about

Which raises an interesting question...

Are zentradi bred for their rank, with higher-ranking positions filled with larger, more authoritative bodies?

Do they use the miclone system to adjust size with major promotions?

Do they just keep growing through their life and after the ages it takes to rise to a rank like Britai or Bodlozaa's you have amassed quite a large height?

Or was it a freakish coincidence that the highest-ranked warriors had the largest bodies?

I don't think Zentrans get promoted much.

They get cloned/created/programmed with a specific IQ and abilities in mind. So the grunt is designed with an IQ of 100 and won't ever become officer material. Junior officers get IQ 120 and never become starship captains etc etc.. Guys like Vritwhai were meant from the start to be fleet commanders.

So for some internal consistency, we should assume Max clubbed a Zentran admiral. But looking at the above drawing, even Vritwhai/Britai's uniform wouldn't fit on a VF-1. And in the TV series the uniform on Max's valk was pretty loose fitting.

I suppose.

Edited March 11, 2004 by Retracting Head Ter Ter

[JB0]

But there IS some room for advancement.

The spies got a promotion after returning to the fleet with their loot.

And Britai's head plate speaks of an injury that someone in his rank shouldn't be in a position to recieve(stray valkyries roaming the halls being very much the exception rather than the rule). So that implies he started on the front lines. Or at the very least as captain of something a bit more prone to getting shot up.

As far as the uniform goes...

Maybe Max is a tailor and he let the seams out a bit?

Doesn't explain why no one noticed a monster like his VF-1 roaming the halls.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Wasn't Britai one of the very first clones off the line? After so much wafare, even a flag officer might get injured by exploding spaceship consoles (like in STar Trek).

Those 3 spy goons had their promotion due to a 1 in a billion freak occurence. Zentrans normally just stomp on the enemy with their 10 bajillion ships instead of spying on people.

[Anubis]

I would say Max's donning a Zentraedi uniform was just more Anime Magic. Certain things in the show did not comply with even it's own scales and such, so what the heck. By the same token, how could Hikaru actually have tilted that HUGE gun by himself to shoot the Zentran soldier?

Edited March 11, 2004 by Anubis

[Jasonc]

In response to your pondering of Hikaru picking up that gun? Simple, Hikaru Schwarzenegger.

[ewilen]

If you believe the liner notes from the Animeigo sets (and why shouldn't we, Egan Loo wrote them, presumably with input from Kawamori), Britai was only 34 at the time of Space War One, and Kamjiin was 23. Exedol is "Age Unknown".

I don't know if Zentradi keep growing throughout their lifespans but my guess is that they're cloned for general roles, with some advancement possible in some cases. Kamjin often fought on the front lines but if he had been successful in his career he probably could have advanced to a command equivalent to Britai or Laplamiz. On the other hand, I doubt that a Regult pilot is ever going to advance beyond that role.

[the white drew carey]

Well, when one clone gets old, they start brewing a new one. Should the new one acheive the same rank without accumulating the same experience? No.

Secondly, someone mentioned IQ's and cloning. Sorry, but you cannot replicate an IQ. That will have to come from actual input and experience.

So the lower soldiers probably aren't taught much. Fly Regult, Eat, Poo. Done.

But then certain other soldiers from exceptional genetic stock are put into better positions and taught more, and then given a higher rank once they are battle-ready (kinf of like a Zentran/Meltran OCS).

Although, this doesn't answer the question of why they didn't simply breed 100,000 Millia's instead of one. That would be nice*.

*"Two Millia's for every boooooy..."

Edited March 11, 2004 by the white drew carey

[Godzilla]

In response to your pondering of Hikaru picking up that gun? Simple, Hikaru Schwarzenegger.

yeah... right. I smell anime magic.

Edited March 11, 2004 by Godzilla

[EXO]

In response to your pondering of Hikaru picking up that gun? Simple, Hikaru Schwarzenegger.

yeah... right. I smell anime magic.

Don't want to ruin it for anyone here, but anime magic starts from the opening credits and ends at the end of the closing credits. I mean if you're wondering how a uniform got on the transforming robot but forgot that there's a transforming robot to with.

[Hurin]

Hehe, that reminds me of when my friends and I used to watch Batman: The Animated Series in our dorm's TV room. The women (it was co-ed) watching with us would wait for Batman to catch himself by grabbing a ledge after falling several stories and then they would say: "That's so fake."

To which we'd all respond: Uh, which part is fake? The part where he would have torn his arm out? Or the part where there is a superhero wearing a giant bat suite swinging around a ficticious city via a rope?

H

P.S. Believe it or not, we weren't called dorks for watching Batman. The real ire was reserved for those watching Jerry Springer or something similar.

[ewilen]

It all depends on how far the creators can get you to "suspend belief". That's the real magic of fiction--anime, book, or otherwise. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's hard to know why.

[rewooh]

ok..so i have a question...

its prolly been overdone, but...

why wasn't a 1/48 version made again?

and this is suppose to be proportional to the 1/60 not the 1/48 right?

[Mechafan]

ok..so i have a question...

its prolly been overdone, but...

why wasn't a 1/48 version made again?

and this is suppose to be proportional to the 1/60 not the 1/48 right?

It would have been huge and costly. A lot of poeple complained about the 1/60 price. Imagine what a 1/48 scale would cost.

[Max Jenius]

ok..so i have a question...

its prolly been overdone, but...

why wasn't a 1/48 version made again?

and this is suppose to be proportional to the 1/60 not the 1/48 right?

Because a 1/48 would be huge. (Bigger than the valk)

THE YAMATO QRAU IS 1/60!!!

[ewilen]

Secondly, someone mentioned IQ's and cloning. Sorry, but you cannot replicate an IQ. That will have to come from actual input and experience.

There's ample evidence these days that IQ is partially influenced by genetics. That begs the question of what IQ is (strictly speaking, IQ is your score on a certain test), but if we accept that IQ has something to do with intelligence, it's reasonable to suppose that Zentradi are selected (or designed) from "conception" to have both intellectual potential and psychological tendencies suited to their intended roles. It's likely that a training regimen would also exist to further mold individuals.

The personality characteristics that are useful in certain roles may actually be counterproductive in others. For example, the ranks of Regult pilots should probably have a high percentage of "natural killers"--people with a tendency toward aggression and relative lack of concern for personal safety. But however useful those traits might be among shock troops, they aren't necessarily what you want in a commander. Commanders should be more reflective and calculating, though still decisive in the midst of battle. Therefore, there is no single ideal personality. So to the extent that Zentradi are cloned to fill various roles, I suspect that they're also limited in their ability to advance or "change careers".

[JB0]

Well, when one clone gets old, they start brewing a new one. Should the new one acheive the same rank without accumulating the same experience? No.

Secondly, someone mentioned IQ's and cloning. Sorry, but you cannot replicate an IQ. That will have to come from actual input and experience.

So the lower soldiers probably aren't taught much. Fly Regult, Eat, Poo. Done.

But then certain other soldiers from exceptional genetic stock are put into better positions and taught more, and then given a higher rank once they are battle-ready (kinf of like a Zentran/Meltran OCS).

I got the impression they "uploaded" some stuff into the brain when they made the clones.

Obviously the extenf they do this is unknown, but It would be logical for someone like Exedol, who seemed to carry the sum total of zentradi knowledge and history in his cranium, to have everything "flashed" into his brain at creation.

So that' implies that there's a lot of raw information they can copy into one brain.

Whether they can burn in an entire personality is another question altogether. They may only write in knowledge and let the personality develop on it's own.

But if they can, then yes, the IQ CAN be replicated.

...

Of course, doing that TOO much leaves you with an entire army staffed with the exact same minds in every last ship, mech, and uniform. It makes you predictable, and thus weak. But when you have the overwhelming superiority of #s that the zentradi have, a bit of predictability may be acceptable in favor of keeping your #s high(a flashed personality is faster than developing one on your own).

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Well, when one clone gets old, they start brewing a new one. Should the new one acheive the same rank without accumulating the same experience? No.

Secondly, someone mentioned IQ's and cloning. Sorry, but you cannot replicate an IQ. That will have to come from actual input and experience.

*"Two Millia's for every boooooy..."

Well, if we use the theory that they have 1 rank from start to end since they were cloned with all the necessary knowledge for that rank, then the new one just gets the old rank and never advances.

For the second bit. Ahhhh the wonders of Overtechnology....