estacado06479 Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 ok, i understand where he is coming from, but NOT IN THIS CASE ihp is no longer willing to give me the kit, the maker works for yamato, and they only have plans to charge me 300+ dollars for a monster that, while being accurate, does not hold my interest in the least. this thing is BAD ASS, and it wouldnt be stealing from ihp, since they dont produce the kit. Quote
Ghadrack Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 (edited) I can respect Gundamhead's point of view, I avoid bootleg products when there is a legitimate alternative available. In this case though there is no official "licensed" version avaiable. If IHP was still offering these kits I would immediately buy two from him, his design and work is masterful ad given the opportunity I would gladly support the creator. Unfortunately this is not the case, this is an attempt by fans to obtain reproductions of his artwork because the original is not avaiable. If anything, this sort of fan support of the artists work should provide incentive for the creators to seek official licensing of their designs and creations. To seek mass production, maybe register a trademark on his design and parts, work on obtaining a licensing agreement, sell the design to a toy company who can get the rights. Something, rather than make a few and then just move on to the next project. This particular thread is not a covert attempt to mass market someone elses idea, it is an attempt by a few fans to get together and devise a strategy to obtain a very very rare, otherwise impossible to find kit for their own personal collections. IHP is not selling the kit and as far as we know has no plan for future re-release, therefore there is no damage to his business and in fact this publicity is certainly going to have people watching this man's work in the future and actively seeking out his products. I dislike bootlegs, I would prefer to support the artist, but when demand exceeds supply and the official distributor shuts off the supply completely secondary markets are born. I already PM'ed but I too am in for one of the VB-6 Monster kits. I know that Valkyrie can do a really nice job with this project if given the chance. Edited March 8, 2004 by Ghadrack Quote
Grayson72 Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 (edited) I guess I'm the only one who just doesn't give a s***. I download music off the internet, I buy recasted models, so sue me. Edited March 8, 2004 by Grayson72 Quote
tom64ss Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 I think ChristopherB's point was that, although this topic is very relavant to the topic at hand, it would be better for everyone if we started a seperate "Is recasting rare models wrong?" thread and leave this one just to discuss how to go forth with the VB-6 project. The topic has now split into two seperate discussions now and news updates about the project are getting buried under a ton of "I agree or disagree with Gundamhead" posts. Before we get anymore of these posts, and it becomes harder and harder to find updates in this thread from Melissa, Carl, or anyone who has news about the project, why don't we just start a new thread about the morality of recasting and leave this one for the project? It couldn't hurt. Quote
g3173 Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 I think ChristopherB's point was that, although this topic is very relavant to the topic at hand, it would be better for everyone if we started a seperate "Is recasting rare models wrong?" thread and leave this one just to discuss how to go forth with the VB-6 project.The topic has now split into two seperate discussions now and news updates about the project are getting buried under a ton of "I agree or disagree with Gundamhead" posts. Before we get anymore of these posts, and it becomes harder and harder to find updates in this thread from Melissa, Carl, or anyone who has news about the project, why don't we just start a new thread about the morality of recasting and leave this one for the project? It couldn't hurt. Hey guys, I totally agree with Tom, let's try and keep this thread debate free and just post updates on the Koenig and the other two kits. My eyes are killing me! So please chill on whether or not recasting is wrong! Thanks, Gene Quote
Gundamhead Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 I said what I felt I had to. I was never looking to take the moral high ground, a soapbox for a cause, or being the 'kettle calling the pot black'. That is why I admitted I do own a couple of bootleg kits myself. I'm no purist crusader. I would never thought to see the day when a group would seek out a kit then offer it up to them. I see this thread being a new line being redrawn favoring the recasters over the originals. Nobody even tried to contact the kit's creator. I never blamed anybody for wanting them, or being excited about maybe owning one. I myself would love to own one too, but not this way. This thread wasn't here the last time I visited, so yes, I felt I did have to reply in it. I certainly haven't derailed it. A look at the creation and number of views is what made me speak up. Years ago on Macross World, Shawn himself would never have condoned a thread like this, let alone the mods. Times change I know, so trying to keep with the topic, I won't disturb it anymore. Quote
fulcy Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 Nobody even tried to contact the kit's creator. Uhm, there was an attempt to contact the kit's creator, and contact was made - there was even a preorder thread up, with alot of interest. But then IHP, for reasons known to him, pulled the plug on casting more of the Monster... Quote
wwwmwww Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) I see this thread being a new line being redrawn favoring the recasters over the originals. I don't think that's a fair statement. I believe everyone here would rather have an original over a recast. More originals AREN'T being made so we'll go with what we can get. PMNobody even tried to contact the kit's creator. Incorrect... as fulcy has already stated. Seiichi was in direct contact with I.H.P for probably about a year. He HAD agreed to make these kits for us and even gave us some special pricing and even offered the option to purchase finished/painted kits. If I recall correctly they were going to be cast in colored resin to distinguish them from the Wonder Fest kits. He became very busy... we were patient and waited... and it was him that finally let the whole project die. It even left Seiichi in a very tough position as he felt he'd let us down. Years ago on Macross World, Shawn himself would never have condoned a thread like this, let alone the mods. I'll let Shawn speak for himself but he's fully aware of this thread. He called me this past weekend for several reasons. One of which was to congratulate me on finding a VB-6. Even though it was Melissa that found it... or maybe I should say it found her. Anyways I believe Shawn is as excited about this thread as most of the rest of us. Remember when Noel recasted the Club-M 1:48 VF-1S? I believe Shawn purchased a few of those. Edited March 9, 2004 by wwwmwww Quote
EXO Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) Times change I know, so trying to keep with the topic, I won't disturb it anymore. And on that note... without further ado, let's get this thread back on track! Hey guys Remember me?!? Edited March 9, 2004 by >EXO< Quote
GRAND CANNON Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) Times change I know, so trying to keep with the topic, I won't disturb it anymore. And on that note... without further ado, let's get this thread back on track! Yes, Thank You, EXO! (And I'm only a spectator here!) BTW, I'm dyin' to see Melissa's pics!!! Edited March 9, 2004 by GRAND CANNON Quote
Jung Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 Anyone have artwork of this thing? Particulary coloured ones? Quote
wwwmwww Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 How is it that this picture hasn't made it into this thread yet? Quote
ChristopherB Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) tom64ss and Gene, I couldn't have said it better, if I had said it myself. Thank you for understanding my intentions. I've been hoping since Page ( when I first posted that this thread would not turn into a debate, but as usual the road to hell is littered with good intentions. When "Gundamhead" signs up for a kit, we'll know if all of Carl's explanatory posts served to change his mind, but regardless it was informative. Shawn was impressed with my Blue Roses Club M 1/48 VF-1S Strike bootleg/recast when he saw it at the MW Convention 2003, and as Carl mentioned, he might of even bought a kit for himself from Blackaces. Sincerely, Christopher Edited March 9, 2004 by ChristopherB Quote
ChristopherB Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) >EXO<, Great picture, and reminder why we are posting in this thread. It might be premature, but it might be cool to talk about our ideas with regard to how we plan to paint our VB-6. For example, you could choose to go with the standard paint job similar to the Monster shown in DYRL, and if I remember correctly, was primarily olive green. But since the VB-6 is also a plane/valkyrie(?), and has (3) modes, it would be cool to come up with something unique. After all, we don't want to have a bunch of custom VB-6's that look almost identical. How about a Low Viz. or Enigma paint scheme? This what I'm planning, but not cut in stone: Paint it in aircraft silver, similar to what was used on the B-17's and P-51's towards the end of WWII in Europe. The Allies had air superiority, so camouflage was not an issue. Certain portions, such as in front of the canopy and the top of engine nacelles on B-17's were painted olive drap to cut down on sun glare. Well, I don't think something like the VB-6 would need to worry about hiding, but this scheme would also be realistic as less paint would be required. This baby is big, bold and can kick a lot of ass. Next, I plan to commission Devin to make me some really cool noseart, in the same tradition as the B-17's and B-24's. Instead of a blond/redhead, it will be Minmei or Misa in a cool seductive pose superimposed over the Macross kite emblem, or maybe a specially designed "monster" for my VB-6 Konieg Monster. Then again, my wife is a redhead, so I might go with that... So basically, metallic aircraft silver with olive drab trim, light weathering, detailing, and badass noseart. Well, let me know what you guys think, and feel free to post yours. A Blue Roses, or a Roy/Max/Hikaru theme perhaps? Sincerely, Christopher Edited March 9, 2004 by ChristopherB Quote
GRAND CANNON Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) Can I forward some "talentless 2-cents"? Looking at the VB-6 reminds me of some real-world "big-guys".......just a few ideas....... Edited March 9, 2004 by GRAND CANNON Quote
EXO Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 Chris, I was thinking the same thing... it seems that the VB-6 is has a more complicated transforming sequence. And each form is complete, not a hybrid like the GERWALK mode on the VF-1. It would cool to find a complicated paint scheme that seams flawlessly in each mode. Like I said before, it's an exciting project!!! Quote
Chindenathus Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 If this project succeeds to my wishes I will have two. I will describe the paint schemes I have planned for each: #1. Exactly like the original. Olive drab with the tan shoulder bands #2. Much like the Low Vis, think like the Zeta C+ all greys and royal blues. Heh, if they are recast using the same grey resin as the above pictures painting the second one will insultingly easy. Quote
wwwmwww Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 Anyone have artwork of this thing? Particulary coloured ones? How are these? Quote
Chindenathus Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) ((Referring to the CGI Pics above.)) Works for me! Yep that's the color scheme I was talking about for the first model. Those images are gorgeous, they from the video game? As for the second color scheme I want to use: http://store6.yimg.com/I/littlethingsmeanalot_1776_4028856 I've loved this color scheme since the original 1/144 kit came out. Edited March 9, 2004 by Chindenathus Quote
trueblueeyes Posted March 9, 2004 Author Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) Problem solved! Valkyrie was kind enough to host the pics on his webspace and has posted links to them on the next page! (Thank you sir!) So what are still doing reading this?!? Go ahead, turn the page, and look upon the glory that is the I.H.P. Koenig Monster and the I.H.P. 1/72 VF-4! Melissa ... And I think Carl was more right than he knew when he said a re-caster won't be making a huge profit on the monster kit. Just wait until they see what they are in for. Edited March 9, 2004 by trueblueeyes Quote
Valkyrie Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 And I think Carl was more right than he knew when he said a re-caster won't be making a huge profit on the monster kit. Just wait until they see what they are in for. Yea, I think that's a pretty safe asumption... I just got the pics from Melissa a bit ago, and... holy crap. I counted 189 parts in the not including the barrels (which look to just be plastic tubing) Instead of resizing the images, I decided to just upload them to my own webspace and link to them http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...B-6_PARTS_1.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...B-6_PARTS_2.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...B-6_PARTS_3.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...B-6_PARTS_4.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...B-6_PARTS_5.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...B-6_PARTS_6.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...B-6_PARTS_7.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...B-6_PARTS_8.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...B-6_PARTS_9.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...-6_PARTS_10.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...-6_PARTS_11.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/ihp/VF-4_BOX.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...F-4_PARTS_1.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...F-4_PARTS_2.JPG http://home.comcast.net/~valkyrie2036/mw/i...F-4_PARTS_3.JPG Seeing pics of the whole kit like this, I'm guessing that the kits will cost around $250. Hopefully a bit less, but almost certainly not less than $200. It's looking like it'll take a lot of materials and a LOT of time and work. But fortunately for all you, I'm currently unemployed Honestly, I'm amazed IHP sold them for only Y30,000... But I can see why he only made 8 or so of them!! Quote
Chindenathus Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) Considering most of us would gladly pay 3-4 hundred for one the approximate $250 price tag ain't scaring me off a bit. I was talking with other MW members and we hope you can use colored resin, like dark grey or dark OD green, it would make paint and maintennence a lot easier. Dark grey would probably work best for a base color since most of us will have to primer it anyways. IIRC the old thread to order from IHP said they were going to try to make them for us in OD like in the picture of the mistransformed one at WF. Just a thought. Thanks for even considering tackling this project, I imagine you are going to be a very busy person soon. Still want 2 "Konigs" and one VF-4 Edited March 9, 2004 by Chindenathus Quote
wwwmwww Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 Those images are gorgeous, they from the video game? I don't think so. They are from another kit maker's web page that has hopes of someday making his own kit. D'Stance to be exact. Considering he's had those pics up for years and he sure isn't making much effort to sell his YF-21 I'm not too hopeful that it'll ever get made. Especially now that I.H.P has beat him to the punch. I don't know if D'Stance made these images or if he pulled them from something else. Carl Quote
wwwmwww Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 Ok... the next order of business will be who does the recasting. That's NOT my call but I've got as much information as anyone so let me get it out there so as informed a decision can be made as possible. Lets look at these two kits. The Tread is a recast by Valkyrie. The Megazone kit is by the other individual that is interested who's asked me not to give out his name. I'll be posting more pictures soon and one piece of information I don't have is where my particular kits fall in the number of recasts each of these guys made of the kits. If one of these kits is the first recast and the other the last it might not be the best comparison but its the only comparison we have at the moment. Quote
wwwmwww Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) Ok... lets start with Valyyrie's recast. The REAL recast this time... Edited March 9, 2004 by wwwmwww Quote
wwwmwww Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) The packing... note Valkyrie recasted a second kit (the hands). The original kit didn't have any hands. Edited March 9, 2004 by wwwmwww Quote
wwwmwww Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) The parts... Edited March 9, 2004 by wwwmwww Quote
wwwmwww Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) A close up... Edited March 9, 2004 by wwwmwww Quote
ChristopherB Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 Carl, Awesome pictures of the VB-6, thank you for posting them. You make a good point about the recast, and I suppose the final decision will be up to the owner of the VB-6. I'm sure it will be a combination of who it feels comfortable with, as well as an idea as to who will do the best job. The comparison pictures you are posting will definitely go along way towards showing the differences, and as you said the amount of recasts made prior to the one you received can potentially have an influence. It's cool that you are taking the time to show the comparison pictures. Your opinion will definitely carry some weight. Valkyrie, First of all, I'm sorry to hear your are unemployed. Best wishes to you in whatever you choose to do. I also appreciate you offering to take on this project, and even though the decision is not mine, I've heard nothing but good things about your recasts. It's cool to see the pictures of the parts, and I always hate to get my hopes up. I'll wait to dance a jig until the VB-6 is safely in the hands of the recaster. It's great to get your hopes up, but it sucks to be let down. The VB-6 parts have a lot of detail, and the all of the flash makes it look like the pieces are molded in plastic rather than resin. The clean up of the copy casting will be a good bit of work, but definitely worth the time. I don't see any air bubbles in the parts, so that is good, and as long as adding die will not affect not make the resin more brittle, it might be a good idea to go that route. It's nice to be discussing the actual project again. Sincerely, Christopher Quote
Angel's Fury Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 Based on the pics you posted on Valkyrie's recasts, it seems like he's done an excellent job with it. Clean, crisp edges to name a few. Btw, do you want me to make a list of who's doing the recasting of what part, etc.? Quote
ChristopherB Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) Angel's Fury, Thank you for being proactive, and being cool enough to help out. Only (1) person will cast the VB-6, and either the same person or another will do the other kits. The person(s) has/have not been determined yet, and it will not be a matter of different people casting different individualy parts, so the list will be very short. Only (1) person per kit at a time, unless they take on (2) kits. Even if they do, they would most likely work on each kit separately. Hope that helps. The kit valkyrie did looks great. Only saw a small mold seam line on one part, and no surface pitting, air bubbles evident. He is definitely talented, and I look forward to seeing the other kit. Sincerely, Christopher Edited March 9, 2004 by ChristopherB Quote
Angel's Fury Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 Angel's Fury,Thank you for being proactive, and being cool enough to help out. Only (1) person will cast the VB-6, and either the same person or another will do the other kits. The person(s) has/have not been determined yet, and it will not be a matter of different people casting different individualy parts, so the list will be very short. Only (1) person per kit at a time, unless they take on (2) kits. Even if they do, they would most likely work on each kit separately. Hope that helps. The kit valkyrie did looks great. Only saw a small mold seam line on one part, and no surface pitting, air bubbles evident. He is definitely talented, and I look forward to seeing the other kit. Sincerely, Christopher That certainly helps ChristopherB. One thing though, should our fellow MWer's vote for who will do whatever kit or it's up to you and Melissa to decide? Quote
Valkyrie Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 Actually, the pics Carl posted were of his original Tread kit, not my recast Mine were cleaned up quite a bit, and have no nasty seam lines like you see in that one foot. But the parts have some surface bumps, resulting from my having pressure casted the parts without vacuum degassing the molds. Looking back, it's kinda embarassing, actually. My equipment and technique has gotten a lot better since then (it was about 2 years ago). Quote
Angel's Fury Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 Actually, the pics Carl posted were of his original Tread kit, not my recast Mine were cleaned up quite a bit, and have no nasty seam lines like you see in that one foot. But the parts have some surface bumps, resulting from my having pressure casted the parts without vacuum degassing the molds. Looking back, it's kinda embarassing, actually. My equipment and technique has gotten a lot better since then (it was about 2 years ago). Thanks for clarifying this up Valkyrie. Quote
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