wm cheng Posted April 21, 2004 Author Posted April 21, 2004 The top parts masked and sprayed. I should of painted the interior intakes on the top chest pieces black first before gluing it into the fuselage, its hard to get the airbrush and paint into such a deep crevass. I had no problem with the YF-19 or the VF-1, but this model is deeper. Quote
wm cheng Posted April 21, 2004 Author Posted April 21, 2004 (edited) The masking removed - I try to remove it as soon as possible, just to minimize the possibility that some tape residue might remain behind. Noticed that I didn't even paint or glue the three thrusters in there, on a dry fit, I noticed that they will not be seen at all, the arms and legs completely hides this whole area. Thank god, I don't know how to paint that builkhead anyways, you couldn't paint it afterwards and place it in (like the grill in the rear) - it had to be glued in place when the backpack was glued to the fuselage, so painting this bulkhead in place afterwards insitu would be a bitch! Edited April 21, 2004 by wm cheng Quote
wm cheng Posted April 21, 2004 Author Posted April 21, 2004 Ahh, my favourite part... the oil wash, what a pleasure on such an amazingly detailed model. I must admit, I'm a real fan of hasegawa's interpretation of the lineart by adding all these panels and bolts, I find the new Macross Plus planes a bit scale-less (even if they are accurate). I tried to vary the washes a bit like my shading now. I use a light grey wash for all the overall panel lines, a black for any vent openings or moveable surfaces and a brown for any hydraulic leakeages. This is just the panel line pass - I will clean it all up and do a separate weathing streaking pass later on (finally now is the fun part!!) Quote
wm cheng Posted April 21, 2004 Author Posted April 21, 2004 The interior of the landing gears, I think they turned out ok, the pins aren't totally gone, but when they are mounted into the aircraft, I think they will all but dissappear. Quote
wm cheng Posted April 21, 2004 Author Posted April 21, 2004 Here's a close up, I don't know if you can see the different shades of wash - I try to do it while they are all wet, so that they will dilute each other and not create any harsh colour transitional changes. Quote
Kurt Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 Looks great! Just curious, what type of oil paint and thinner do you use for your washes? I also use oil washes, but have been wanting to experiment with different combinations. I use Windsor Newton paint and either Turpenoid or Eco-House (citrus) turpentine. For the most part these work ok, however the oil seems to separate in the thinner to quickly. Thanks. Quote
Knight26 Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 I say leave the crack in the nose, makes it look more realistic, seen very many F-14s with similar cracks in the radome paint. Heck on the German MiG-29s the paint all over the nose cone flaked away because of friction and the radar pulses. Quote
David Hingtgen Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 Bare metal airbrake and well? Hmmn. It certainly looks neat and matches the rest of the plane (alclad is well worth the money) but I'm trying to think of any plane that has bare metal there. Will think on it a while and post back. Usually white or red or chromate, sometimes grey. Quote
Berttt Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 AARRGHH! Wha, what happened, it looks like the clear-coat shrank and peeled away from the gloss white undercoat leaving this crack I don't know exactly what happened, I'd guess I laid the clear-coat on too thick and maybe the undercoat wasn't completely dried yet?Man I hate it when this happens, I am going to try to very gently sand the clear coat down with 2000 grit sanding film (I hope the crack doesn't extend down to the plastic) to eliminate the crack and will have to put the white gloss over it again and a careful light clear coat. I know what you mean, imagine my disgust when something similiar happened to my CF VF-1A Battroid when I put the final flat clear coat over the decals!! Now I stick to all acrylic paints as much as possible as much as possible. The whole thing was wrecked, but I have a plan and the bits from this and a VF-1S fighter that had a little accident will rise again in the form of a Hasegawa gerwalk. Quote
Grayson72 Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 Bare metal airbrake and well? Hmmn. It certainly looks neat and matches the rest of the plane (alclad is well worth the money) but I'm trying to think of any plane that has bare metal there. Will think on it a while and post back. Usually white or red or chromate, sometimes grey. Red would look kinda cool, is it normally red on both the underside of the brake and the well? What's chromate? Like a chrome bumper? Quote
David Hingtgen Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 Navy planes do red. The entire "well", and the backside of the brake itself. The same red they use on flaps/slats, and gear-door edges. Air Force likes white, but sometimes makes some areas grey. Chromate---ever seen that yellow-green primer in a bomb bay or wheel well, or the interior of most any freighter? That stuff. Most WWII planes used it everywhere, and was still common for many jets into the 60's. Still your standard B-52 interior color, and I bet you'll find it lots of other places too--I know there's a lot used for tanker planes. Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 I use low odour varsol - this stuff doesn't stink and it seems less strong, but yes sometimes when its too thin, the paint pegments have a tendency to separate into fine particles in the thinned solution - its a problem. I think enamel washes don't have this problem, but I'm chicken, I'm afraid the enamel washes might eat away at the acrylic undercoat since enamel solvents are usually harsher. Ah... David you cought me, your right (wrong colour choice - artistic licence), but I like the idea of the brake opening and revealing some guts of the aircraft - it makes a better contrast to the white/grey - plus my other Valks (VF-1) have a metal airbrake compartment. What do you think about lining the landing gear doors with red? Too garish on a 1/72? or too old fashioned? I haven't really seen any references to the VF-0 - but I doubt that the landing gear door edges are red-lined. The crack is now nicely sanded down and awaits another coat of white then clear-coat - I'll do it after I wipe down the oil wash, I'll post some pictures soon. Quote
David Hingtgen Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 (edited) Well, I'd say it depends on how you equate the UN Spacy to the US Navy. As a rule, valks go with US Navy practice, rather than Air Force. And the Navy has red door edges! Even brand-new Super Hornets do. That's just how it is. Now, you will find Navy planes without them, but that's rare. I don't know if there's specific exceptions, or "incomplete repaintings for maintenance" or what, but they do exist. But like 90% of Navy planes will have the red door edges. However, I don't really recall seeing them on any valks... But then again, the VF-0 is certainly the "interim" valk, and could follow "older" practice. Edited April 22, 2004 by David Hingtgen Quote
Grayson72 Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 Ok David, so I gotta ask why? the red edges? Quote
Graham Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 Wm, as this kits seems to have given you a bit of trouble, do you think you will also build the two-seat VF-0B when it is released? Just curious, and it would be nice to see the 'S' & 'B' next to each other. I do understand it might be a bit boring for you though building what is essentially the same kit, except for the head and cockpit. Graham Quote
David Hingtgen Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 Never seen an official explanation, but I'm guessing it's exactly the same as the intake warning triangles (also a Navy-only thing)--just that much more visible, for safety. Quote
Grayson72 Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 same as the intake warning triangles (also a Navy-only thing Cool, now that I didn't know. Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 Cool! you guys convinced me, I'll try to edge the doors in red when I get to it - any tips David? I was thinking I'd use my red sharpie marker again - it worked pretty well on the Yukikaze plane - and there's better control on it. Do modern Navy aircraft still have the red edges? Graham, I would like to have the VF-0B twin seater (buts that's not the same as building it ) I'm sure everyone here has the collection bug but I don't think there is enough time in our lifetime to complete all our kits (unless I won the lottery ). That being said, you're right, It would be nice to see them together with the off-grey scheme against Roy's whiter bumble bee scheme. You're also right that the fit of this kit is not as good as the VF-1 - it feels a little rushed, even some of the panel lines seems to run pass each other at intersections So I'm not too keen on all this work again (at least so soon) I want it, but it would probably be on the back burner as far as a que is concerned. I'm actually more interested in the VF-0D (is this the delta winged version of the double seater? - its seems to be grey/blue if I remember correctly). Well here's where we are tonight, I got the panel lines down to a respectable subtlety - I always have it dark when I first start (I love the details) but always end up rubbing a lot off or lightening them - because they are just too obvious. I think this is a good comprimise - it might be still a bit strong, but with the high-contrast black stripes it should be ok, I can always lay a wash of white oil paint in there afterwards if its still too dark. Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 Just have to fit the legs on - too bad they don't slip on and stay on allowing them to be removed like the VF-1. You really need to leave gluing them on till the very end since you need to decal the "inner" calves before they get glued in. Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 I love being able to see some glint of metal inbetween the holes of the airbrake!! I also love those slotted vents on the back. I've sprayed another coat of semi-gloss clear coat (allowing overnight to dry without me picking it up ) to protect this stage in preparation for tomorrow's post shading. If I over do it tomorrow, I can always take a little windex and "erase" any extra post-shading to this point without disturbing the paint underneath. Quote
Grayson72 Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 Coming along very nicely, I really like the white accents you added, it really brings out the details and breaks up the plane a bit. Make sure you point out all the areas you post shade, I wanna know what areas you focus on for post shading. Quote
David Hingtgen Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 I already mentioned this above, but the latest Navy planes do have red edges. I fully expect the F-35's will too. It's FS 31136 btw, Insignia red. I can provide plenty of pics if you want, F-14B, F-18F. I don't know if I'd try to paint, or use a marker. I can tell you in real life they're very nicely applied at the factory, but they're pretty haph-hazardly retouched later on. Edging ranks pretty low on the "paint accuracy priority" list for the Navy! BTW---I'd like wheel-painting tips. I've never been good at it. (Been doing my SR-71's lately, and it's especially hard with the aluminum tires and all, and it's nigh-impossible to do nice tread detail on them) SR-71---complete opposite of normal, paint-wise. White engines, auminum tires, red-brown wheels, titanium gear, titanium bays, black seat cushions, etc. Except of course the nose-wheel, which is "normal". Quote
Hikuro Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 I discovered something really odd lastnight when I was working on my VF-1A. As I was sanding off some dried out parts from some paint, as I was using the wet sand paper, it started to rub off the paint (no surprise for me) but what caught my attention were the panel lines were VERY highlited once you got off enough of the paint you could see the panel lines much better, (You still can, just not as well as you should). So little red lines were all over and I was like, "DAMN! If this works, I should have used black first >< crap!" But probably would not work in the long run. But I finished the gunpod coloring, working on the intake covers, finished the head piece...it was a Jack Archor custom but I said to hell with it and I'm faking it as I go along. But a bit of a question, since I've colored it first, there's no way to highlite the panel lines now is there? Quote
Grayson72 Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 (edited) I already mentioned this above, but the latest Navy planes do have red edges. I fully expect the F-35's will too. It's FS 31136 btw, Insignia red. I can provide plenty of pics if you want, F-14B, F-18F.  I don't know if I'd try to paint, or use a marker. I can tell you in real life they're very nicely applied at the factory, but they're pretty haph-hazardly retouched later on. Edging ranks pretty low on the "paint accuracy priority" list for the Navy! BTW---I'd like wheel-painting tips. I've never been good at it. (Been doing my SR-71's lately, and it's especially hard with the aluminum tires and all, and it's nigh-impossible to do nice tread detail on them) SR-71---complete opposite of normal, paint-wise. White engines, auminum tires, red-brown wheels, titanium gear, titanium bays, black seat cushions, etc. Except of course the nose-wheel, which is "normal". Aluminum tires!? Good lord that must make for a really smooth ride...NOT! Oh please do post some pics of the red edges, thanks Edited April 22, 2004 by Grayson72 Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 I focus on all areas, there are no real specifics, but I do omit the really small details that I know I can't get my airbrush in tight enough. Generally I try to hit all the contours of the aircraft - concentrating in the valleys with a darker colour, and hitting the highpoints with a flat white later on to simulate wearing. I think of it in terms of shading a drawing, where the painted color represents the mid-tones and any recesses gets shadowed with a darker shade and any highpoints gets hit with a lighter color. Also think what gets hit with the blast of airflow that should get a bit lighter worn, where as areas that are recesses tend to collect debris and dirt. Then after all is said and done, I sometimes just spray where ever I think might accentuate something (artistic licence ) Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 Here's an overall shot, I tried to trace the panel lines with my airbrush (or as close as I can to them). I used a thinned down sky grey for the post-shading. I thin it down 70:30 thinner:paint ratio, much more diluted than I am used to painting with - so it flows easily out of the airbrush and prevents clogging. I really need control for this stage and I try to get the finest lines I can. I often go over lines quite a few time because so little paint comes out - this way I can: A) see where the paint is going to make sure I hit the lines B) vary the darkness of the shading C) after a few strokes I can get an more steady and even stroke D) because I chicken$h@! so I like to build up my colour in multiple passes I hold the airbrush quite close, maybe 1-2" from the model to get a fine line. Periodically spray full open onto a piece a paper to clear out the airbrush and prevent splatter - then go back to the model. This is much heavier post shading than I usually do, but hey I think this bird is more weathered than most - finally not a new demostration scheme (MacrossPlus birds) and I noticed a lot more weathering on the CGI shots. Plus when I apply the stark black stripes, that will make such a contrast to the eyes, that these post shading will fade into the background more. I don't want to over do it at this stage, I still want to do another pass after the decals are on to tie them into the paint scheme more - so treat this as 75% of the desired effect. Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 Here's a close up, I shaded those (conformal fuel tanks? what are they David/Graham?) to bring out their roundness, and concentrated on the valley at their connection to the airframe. I also shaded where I think the black stripes will meet light grey paint, so the black separation has a bit of a transition and won't be so jarring. Remember you want to avoid masking after the decals (that VE-1 Radome incident ) Now I want to do the streaking next - but I'm not sure how - any suggestions? I thought I'd do the majority of weathering now before the decals since certain decals such as the warning and no-step labels will have a tiny bit of carrier film attached to them (more inbetween the letters) even if I trim them very closely and if I wash or streak, it might catch the edges of these decals and produce a dark halo effect around each graphic (bad experience I don't wish to repeat). I tried wiping the oil wash in a single direction, but the streaking isn't what I wanted to achieve, it streaks, but the darkest portion is towards the tail - I want the darkest portion to be at the source - then fading away. An effect best achieved by airbrushing the fade, but I can't get my airbrush fine enough - I want to streak away from some of the revit holes. I have some sketching charcol sticks and conte pastels, which I might try - I was thinking of rubbing them onto a piece a paper and using a fine tipped brush with a little water and using the shavings as ink painting the streaks - what do you think? Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 Some more areas where I concentrated some shading. Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 Ok, maybe David or anyone else here can answer me this - what is the direction o streaking on the swing wings supposed to be? This is going to be my weather reference - I get the idea of airflow and everything, but look on the swing wings, they have it flowing directly back - it looks ok, but its certainly not in the direction of the airflow over the wings. I know, this is anime, so do I follow the anime airflow pattern, it looks better, or do I do it at an angle to the wings (which IMHO looks a bit odd) but makes physical reality sense - it so then at which angle on a variable geometry wing? Maybe we can have a vote - anime direction or realistic direction? Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 Ah, one of the best things Hasegawa did was design the tailcone/feet to be assembled after painting, this saves so much masking the interior black headaches. This one of the things I've been looking foward to assembling. Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 Yah!! you can still see the afterburners rather well, just like the anime! Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 The front intake turbines, I cut to two little pins off, its too difficult to align them properly. Its too bad they didn't set it back further into the intake. Quote
wm cheng Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 I masked that hip separation and painted that sky grey to give it a little more definition than just a oil wash. Quote
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