Macross Plus: If Guld is insane

[Gerwalker]

Last weekend I was re-watching M+ movie and seeing how crazy and emotionally unstable Guld was, I wondered how he managed to pass through all the testing a pilot (even more a test pilot) is subjected to.

What is bothering me even more is that he was chosen as a test pilot of a MENTAL CONTROLLED FIGHTER!!! Maybe all the psichiatrists and all the knowledge on psichiatry were destroyed in space war I???

Easy answer: anime magic

[Duke Togo]

You really need to watch it again. Or try watching the OVA.

[Agent ONE]

He was taking drugs to control his Zjentohlauedy rage. More detail is given in the OVA.

[Angel's Fury]

He was taking drugs to control his Zjentohlauedy rage. More detail is given in the OVA.

Yep. That was shown in the movie in which Guld was checking out Isamu's records in his pc, and then.........just watch the movie/oav again.

[Zentrandude]

isamu wasnt there to reveal his true nature of insanity.

isamu is the catalyst.

[JB0]

He was shown taking pills in one sequence.

People are ASSUMING these pills were to suppress anger inherited from his zentradi father. It may very well be he just had a bad headache, which if I recall was supposed to be a side effect of the BDI system.

[cobywan]

Nope. There is mention of Guld's emotional supressants in the preliminary ivestigation aginst the "Accitdental" weapons load.

[Agent ONE]

He was shown taking pills in one sequence.

People are ASSUMING these pills were to suppress anger inherited from his zentradi father. It may very well be he just had a bad headache, which if I recall was supposed to be a side effect of the BDI system.

The doctors tell the project lead guy about Guld taking something to supress his rage, they hand him a report and he shreds it, then tells them to forget they did the analysis.

[JB0]

I didn't think they ever specified HOW he was suprressing his anger.

It could have been raw willpower.

I don't recall anything to indicate it was drugs.

But I'll rewatch the relevant scenes later.

[Anubis]

Guld suffered repressed memories. Those wouldn't have shown up on any Psych test he would have been given. Once Isamu showed up, they were triggered and he began to have problems. He didn't start to have those flashbacks until Isamu arrived. The colonel let it go after that for fear or hurting the project, and chose to trust his pilots.

Edited February 23, 2004 by Anubis

[Druna Skass]

Guld suffered repressed memories. Those wouldn't have shown up on any Psych test he would have been given. Once Isamu showed up, they were triggered and he began to have problems. He didn't start to have those flashbacks until Isamu arrived. The colonel let it go after that for fear or hurting the project, and chose to trust his pilots.

Exactly, could have been a form of PTSD, I'll have to watch it again.

That man needed some serious professional help.

[Gerwalker]

Guld suffered repressed memories. Those wouldn't have shown up on any Psych test he would have been given. Once Isamu showed up, they were triggered and he began to have problems. He didn't start to have those flashbacks until Isamu arrived. The colonel let it go after that for fear or hurting the project, and chose to trust his pilots.

Thanks Zentrandude and Anubis! That's a good explanation. Isamu is the trigger of repressed madness that couldn't be detected by the tests.

Duke Togo: I've seen the OVAS and the movie several times. Just couldn't explain how he managed to cheat the medical and psych tests he surelly have to pass thru in order to became a test pilot!!!!!!!.

Agent One: The drugs are not good at all to explain that, I assume they could be detected in blood, urine or whatever medical tests they frequently perform on their pilots. In fact they detected that as you said...

I have another explanation if you allow me (and not send me to view the movie and OVAS once again...):

Both test pilots are crazy. Isamu is not your regular professional fighter pilot, the calmed and controlled guy you would put into the one of the two most advanced VF in the galaxy...and Guld... we just discussed about him. AFAIK tests pilots are not known from losing their temper very easily. Maybe they were selected just to ruin the SuperNova project in favor of the Ghost???

[Marso]

Sort of seems like they succeeded, too. Guld gets vaped in the prototype 21, and Isamu steals the 19 and tears up the Macross with it. They pretty much have to end the story right there and then, because after he finished hugging Myung I'm sure a great big shitburger hit the fan both on Earth and on Eden.

Probably not a coincidence that there is no mention of Isamu anywhere after plus, eh?

[Anubis]

Something could be said for though about pilots who would push the design of the jets they were test flying, more so than most pilots would. What better way to work out any bugs in the VF than by sufficiently breaking it in?

[Gerwalker]

Sort of seems like they succeeded, too. Guld gets vaped in the prototype 21, and Isamu steals the 19 and tears up the Macross with it. They pretty much have to end the story right there and then, because after he finished hugging Myung I'm sure a great big shitburger hit the fan both on Earth and on Eden.

Probably not a coincidence that there is no mention of Isamu anywhere after plus, eh?

Good point...hmmmm...

[daeudi]

Isamu is not your regular professional fighter pilot, the calmed and controlled guy you would put into the one of the two most advanced VF in the galaxy...and Guld... we just discussed about him. AFAIK tests pilots are not known from losing their temper very easily. Maybe they were selected just to ruin the SuperNova project in favor of the Ghost???

I'm guessing you have never met a fighter pilot, much less a test pilot. They frequently get into bar fights, etc. They ARE crazy.

You have to be. Fighter pilot mentality is one that borders megalomania, they are powerful gods in their own eyes. They have to be.

Confidence. The best pilots are also the most confident ones. A loss of confidence means a dead pilot.

Test pilots are worse, they don't really believe that they CAN die. Sure they say they know they can, but they don't BELIEVE it.

Seriously- read Chuck Yeager's book. The man tries to come off circumspective- but he has balls the size of a planet and is completely insane in the membrane.

Gotta love that guy!

[Southcross]

well (speaking from the fact that I know a few people on "medication") there is the belief that if the medication "controls" your simptoms, and you are not a danger to yourself or others... your "fine" (well as long as you STAY on your medication)

Now pretty much Guld only seems to be a danger to Isamu (ok so there was a "incident" 10 years ago). so theoretically in 2040 they might say that those that stay on their medication are "flight worthy". But Gulds problem was more "Genetic" than a mental defect... that might create some kind of "resistance" to his medication, but has been able to control it until Isamu appeared.

As for the conspiracy about having Isamu and Guld "ruin" the project... its very very likely, and believable

[Agent ONE]

Sort of seems like they succeeded, too. Guld gets vaped in the prototype 21, and Isamu steals the 19 and tears up the Macross with it. They pretty much have to end the story right there and then, because after he finished hugging Myung I'm sure a great big shitburger hit the fan both on Earth and on Eden.

Probably not a coincidence that there is no mention of Isamu anywhere after plus, eh?

Well how could anyone have seen Isamu? There hasn't been anything after Plus... 7 took place after but it a totally different part of the galaxy.

[Gerwalker]

Isamu is not your regular professional fighter pilot, the calmed and controlled guy you would put into the one of the two most advanced VF in the galaxy...and Guld... we just discussed about him. AFAIK tests pilots are not known from losing their temper very easily. Maybe they were selected just to ruin the SuperNova project in favor of the Ghost???

I'm guessing you have never met a fighter pilot, much less a test pilot. They frequently get into bar fights, etc. They ARE crazy.

You have to be. Fighter pilot mentality is one that borders megalomania, they are powerful gods in their own eyes. They have to be.

Confidence. The best pilots are also the most confident ones. A loss of confidence means a dead pilot.

Test pilots are worse, they don't really believe that they CAN die. Sure they say they know they can, but they don't BELIEVE it.

Seriously- read Chuck Yeager's book. The man tries to come off circumspective- but he has balls the size of a planet and is completely insane in the membrane.

Gotta love that guy!

In fact I've met a couple of fighter pilots (attack pilots indeed) Professionals, mistics but not bar fighters neither crazy... though they were veterans of war.

I have to agree about the megalomaniac tendencies on fighter or test pilots. But the M+ characters are really nuts (one of the best in the Macross universe IMHO, Just compare them with the semi-autists ones from Yukikaze)

I should read Yeager's book!! Thanks!!

[Mechafan]

AFAIK tests pilots are not known from losing their temper very easily. Maybe they were selected just to ruin the SuperNova project in favor of the Ghost???

Good abservation. The General knew the Ghost was going to win anyway. Isamu found it out and was very upset. I am still glad they used up dated versions of both in Macross 7.

[DestroidDefender]

I think Guld was selected because, border-line insane or not, he was the only one who could fly the prototype.

I have not seen the OVA for awhile, but I rented the movie a couple months back. The topic starter is right - the "plot" of the movie is impossible to follow. It was weak in some places in the OVA, but the character's motivations in the movie are impossible to understand. Example: Even with Guld chancing him, how can Assamu possibily justify trashing major buildings in Macross city? What is Sharon Apple trying to do at the films climax? These are not adequately explained in the movie.

Edited February 25, 2004 by DestroidDefender

[Marso]

The whole thing with the Isamu/Guld dogfight near the surface used to bug me until I saw the original SDF Macross TV series. Here is a possible explanation:

When the two arrive at Earth, it is past nightfall in Macross City and the concert is underway. Guld and Isamu's low altitude duel happens in a city where it is still daylight. After seeing the devastation that Earth suffered in SDF-M, I now assume that this fight takes place near the abandoned ruins of a former city, where there are no people. The fight then goes back to high altitude, is resolved, and everything between Guld and the Ghost happens up high as well. Isamu then heads for Macross City and has it out with Sharon.

Make sense?

[Gerwalker]

The whole thing with the Isamu/Guld dogfight near the surface used to bug me until I saw the original SDF Macross TV series. Here is a possible explanation:

When the two arrive at Earth, it is past nightfall in Macross City and the concert is underway. Guld and Isamu's low altitude duel happens in a city where it is still daylight. After seeing the devastation that Earth suffered in SDF-M, I now assume that this fight takes place near the abandoned ruins of a former city, where there are no people. The fight then goes back to high altitude, is resolved, and everything between Guld and the Ghost happens up high as well. Isamu then heads for Macross City and has it out with Sharon.

Make sense?

It makes sense. Though the city they straffed (sp?) seemed quite intact (all the glass windows were intact and no signs of destruction were aparent)

[Sumdumgai]

I dunno about the abandoned city thing. I mean, there were cars everywhere still. The buses, all that kind of crap.

I think it was an inhabited city, but they didn't bother to animate pedestrians in the street, the cars driving about, etc. I was always under the impression that the city was inhabited, and that Isamu and Guld were just too wrapped up in their personal conflict to really give a damn or take notice.

[Southcross]

The whole thing with the Isamu/Guld dogfight near the surface used to bug me until I saw the original SDF Macross TV series. Here is a possible explanation:

When the two arrive at Earth, it is past nightfall in Macross City and the concert is underway. Guld and Isamu's low altitude duel happens in a city where it is still daylight. After seeing the devastation that Earth suffered in SDF-M, I now assume that this fight takes place near the abandoned ruins of a former city, where there are no people. The fight then goes back to high altitude, is resolved, and everything between Guld and the Ghost happens up high as well. Isamu then heads for Macross City and has it out with Sharon.

Make sense?

It makes sense. Though the city they straffed (sp?) seemed quite intact (all the glass windows were intact and no signs of destruction were aparent)

well the City (or part there of) that was >strafed<... if it was New Macross?? Supposedly "everyone" was to be at Lake Macross celibrating the "30 years of peace"

thats another possibility for no pedestrians.

Also everyone was entranced by Sharon Apple... they all could of been inside "eyes glued" to their TVs.

[Druna Skass]

If Guld's rage was due to his half Zentran blood insteady of some really bad anger management issues, does the same thing happen to Meltrans?

[Noyhauser]

Not to pull out the M-7 card... but when encoutering Protodevilin, zentredi go into an uncontrollable rage, while humans don't... so there are definate physiological/psychological differences between the two species.

just want to throw that in there

[imode]

If Guld's rage was due to his half Zentran blood insteady of some really bad anger management issues, does the same thing happen to Meltrans?

Dunno. The Jenius girls didn't seem to suffer from this, except for those random temper tantrums.

[Myriad]

affirmative action

[Southcross]

If Guld's rage was due to his half Zentran blood insteady of some really bad anger management issues, does the same thing happen to Meltrans?

Might explain why Max and Millia seperated in the Mac7 story... she was abusive, beat up poor Max

[Gerwalker]

If Guld's rage was due to his half Zentran blood insteady of some really bad anger management issues, does the same thing happen to Meltrans?

Might explain why Max and Millia seperated in the Mac7 story... she was abusive, beat up poor Max

As Noyhauser said, :

-zentredi go into an uncontrollable rage, while humans don't... so there are definate physiological/psychological differences between the two species.-

This fact (zents going crazy) was known since the first space war (remember how they reacted to kisses and girls singing?) Then, once again:

Why they put a potentially mad guy in the controls of the most advanced VF in the Galaxy (that incidentally is a mind controlled VF)??

[Druna Skass]

Might explain why Max and Millia seperated in the Mac7 story... she was abusive, beat up poor Max

Was she known as Mistress Millia in the bedroom?

[Final Vegeta]

Why they put a potentially mad guy in the controls of the most advanced VF in the Galaxy (that incidentally is a mind controlled VF)??

Because Guld was half Zentradi, and General Galaxy was founded by Zents.

I think this is called "patronizing".

FV

[DestroidDefender]

Why they put a potentially mad guy in the controls of the most advanced VF in the Galaxy (that incidentally is a mind controlled VF)??

Because only the mind of disciplined Zentraedi elite pilot could control it?

The risk must have been out weighted by other considerations for him to be accepted.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

If Guld's rage was due to his half Zentran blood insteady of some really bad anger management issues, does the same thing happen to Meltrans?

Probably worse, once a month.