Victory Gundam

[Rotor Magic]

In spite of my dislike of the character design in V Gundam, I love the V2 Gundam. I feel like it is the last truly UC-reminiscent old school Gundam design. The beam shield carries on the progression of beam technology from the Nu Gundam's funnels and the beam shields in F91.

Gundam designs after V Gundam (TV Series-wise) have been more and more flashy. The Wing Gundam, the Gundam Double X, and Aegis Gundam feel like they go for more style before substance, while the original Gundam was remarkable due to its realism in approaching giant robots. Now, the more fins, lasers, and gadgets they can shoehorn into a Gundam, the better, which is probably due to pressure from Bandai on the anime creators to garner better toy sales. Although I do suspect the reason why the Zeta transformed at all was probably due to the same pressure to compete with Transformers at the time.

While most of the Zanscar mobile suits looked bad, I liked them for one thing - they were ORIGINAL. I mean, it's 20 years later and we are still getting recycled Zakus with new names as villian mecha?? - like the Jinn in Gundam Seed. I know, it's a trademark of the series, but look at Zeta - it had a LOT of variety in the mobile suits and armors piloted by the Titans and Neo Zeon. Hell, I even was the rare person to like the Turn A and Turn X because they actually felt futuristic and fresh. Are the Gundams of today a big leap like the original was? IMO, they would to people of the 70s and 80s, but now they seem uninspired.

Anyways, just my 2 cents...

[Jolly Rogers]

I was wondring how`s the plasitc quality of HCM is it more like a model or a toy ? because I always think to get one but in the end I always pull back when I order.

Most of my Gundam collection are HGUC, MSIA and the 1/144 Gundam RX-78-2 from Gundam the origin comic.

Depending on what kind of toy you had in mind.

While put on display, they fit right in with your HGUCs both in terms of scale and plastic quality. The paintjob is better done than the MSiA figures and the plastic doesn't look or feel as fake, although there are always exceptions - for example, the Nu Gundam HCM's fin funnels were molded in 1 piece and the plastic has a very glossy surface, which clashes with the rest of the MS in a big way, since it was painted/molded in flat colors.

Some of the major joints are done in diecast. Minor assembly is required for the detail parts. Proportions are accurate, no MSiA Zaku with oversized guns syndrome with the HCMs.

Edited February 26, 2004 by Jolly Rogers

[Stamen0083]

While most of the Zanscar mobile suits looked bad, I liked them for one thing - they were ORIGINAL. I mean, it's 20 years later and we are still getting recycled Zakus with new names as villian mecha?? - like the Jinn in Gundam Seed. I know, it's a trademark of the series, but look at Zeta - it had a LOT of variety in the mobile suits and armors piloted by the Titans and Neo Zeon. Hell, I even was the rare person to like the Turn A and Turn X because they actually felt futuristic and fresh.

Too original, I'm afraid.

I hate most of the Z/ZZ designs, as well as all of the bug-eyed mechs from V. There's a reason I don't go beyond 0083.

I'm all for variety, but there's a line between originality and ugly, and it seems that many designers cannot help but straddle the lines, garnering elements from both schools of thought.

[Jolly Rogers]

Yeap, most of the OYW Zeon designs have aged well - just look at all the kits and toys still being cranked out 25 years later - but the Zeta and ZZ monstrosities haven't all aged that gracely except for a chosen few.

[Panon]

Ok, just finished X last night, and while cool...WHAT THE HELL WAS UP WITH DOME! I realize the episode count was dropped by at least 10, but that whole nonsensicle babble about Newtypes being illusions....! That alone dropped X a few points.

Nonsensicle?

What exactly was hard to understand? DOME's speach was actually pretty simple.

He (it?) wasn't saying that Newtypes themselves were only an illusion, but the concept of Newtypes and what they stood for was an illusion.

With the emergence of Newtypes, people came to see them as the next step of humanity, and with their powers, the ones who would create the future.

DOME's point was that was not the case, and that the future is created not by Newtypes with powers, but by those with the strength and will to create their own futures. Thus his mentioning of Tifa's visions of the future and how Garrod had made it so that not a single one of them had come to pass.

[Rotor Magic]

While most of the Zanscar mobile suits looked bad, I liked them for one thing - they were ORIGINAL.  I mean, it's 20 years later and we are still getting recycled Zakus with new names as villian mecha?? -  like the Jinn in Gundam Seed.  I know, it's a trademark of the series, but look at Zeta - it had a LOT of variety in the mobile suits and armors piloted by the Titans and Neo Zeon.  Hell, I even was the rare person to like the Turn A and Turn X because they actually felt futuristic and fresh.

Too original, I'm afraid.

I hate most of the Z/ZZ designs, as well as all of the bug-eyed mechs from V. There's a reason I don't go beyond 0083.

I'm all for variety, but there's a line between originality and ugly, and it seems that many designers cannot help but straddle the lines, garnering elements from both schools of thought.

Some of the more esoteric designs were due to Mamoru Nagano of Five Star Stories fame. You can usually spot his designs since they are normally tall skinny and spindly looking. The Hyaku Shiki was his work, as well as the Zeta I think. Kunio "Mr. Boxy with no joints designer) Okawara did the Mark II.

The Bound Doc is particularly a dumb dumb design. But the Psycho Gundam, Psycho Gundam II, and the Messala are pretty cool.

I loved the designs from 0083. The Powered GM, the GP01 FB, the GPO3 Dendobrium Stamen, the Xamel, and Gato's mobile armor were some of the most beautiful designs. The GP03 is especially intimidating. Anything Hajime Katoki touches is gold.

[Stamen0083]

Some of the more esoteric designs were due to Mamoru Nagano of Five Star Stories fame. You can usually spot his designs since they are normally tall skinny and spindly looking. The Hyaku Shiki was his work, as well as the Zeta I think. Kunio "Mr. Boxy with no joints designer) Okawara did the Mark II.

Actually, Kazumi Fujita designed the Zeta Gundam. Okawara designed the transformation gimmick.

The Fujita Zeta is butt ugly as well. I only like the Zeta Gundam ver Ka, which the MG kit came pretty close to.

Mamoru Nagano should only stick with FSS. I can't stand his Gundam designs (I hate the Shiki with a burning passion), and the L-Gaims can only be described as L-Lame.

The Bound Doc is particularly a dumb dumb design.  But the Psycho Gundam, Psycho Gundam II, and the Messala are pretty cool.

Can't say I care for the latter three, but the Bound Doc has a charm that I can really appreciate.

I loved the designs from 0083.  The Powered GM, the GP01 FB, the GPO3 Dendobrium Stamen, the Xamel, and Gato's mobile armor were some of the most beautiful designs.  The GP03 is especially intimidating. Anything Hajime Katoki touches is gold.

Couldn't have said that last line any better myself.

[motley]

Yeap, most of the OYW Zeon designs have aged well - just look at all the kits and toys still being cranked out 25 years later - but the Zeta and ZZ monstrosities haven't all aged that gracely except for a chosen few.

i would say its less that they've aged well, and more that they've been better taken care of. most of the favorite designs have had their lines updated once or twice. partially due to the various OVAs and partially for the PG, HGUC, and MG model kit lines.

as for the Zeta designs, part of the reason they are so odd, is that the designers called in were... lets say more, artistic, than your traditional mecha designers, chalk it up to the 1980's. the other reason they seem a little odd, is that Zeta had, at least, SEVEN different mechanical designers. and in most cases each design was "cleaned up" by a different designer, and in some cases more than once. is it any wonder the designs have aged poorly. i like most of the Zeta designs, but i think they are deserving of a wholesale update, perhaps by a new designer, much like the (former) newcomer Katoki re-worked much of the OYW designs. but i don't want to see katoki doing Zeta reworks, Katoki always seems to want to take his designs over the top (Ex-S gundam anyone?), and the Zeta designs are already pushing that envelope. if the Zeta MS are going to be re-worked, it'd be better to have someone come in and pull them back from the edge.

[mikeszekely]

At least Jerrid had some personality!

I'll do myself a favor and disregard your entire post based on this simple quote.

If you had really watched both series extensively enough... you wouldn't have said that. After the 3rd or so defeat.... Jerid becomes Asuka after being bested by Shinji.

As for Zeta, yeah, Camille could be a jerk and a complainer. But unlike Amuro, he seemed to have more genuine reasons for his attitude. He was a genuinely dark character who seemed to suffer more hardship everytime it finally seemed like something was going his way.

And Uso didn't? And Amuro didn't have a reasont to complain? Have you even watched the original Gundam?

You are saying that being thrust into the role of "ray of hope" of the Federation, and practically being forced to kill.... is not enough reason to act like he did?

Just because Camille had a reason to be a loser, doesn't make him a likeable character.

Oh yeah, Asuka did have a similar personality. Too bad Jerrid did it first. And sure, he was a jock jerk like someone you knew in high school, but that is personality, whether it's a likeable personality or not.

Sure did watch Gundam. The original TV series, not the movies. And no, Amuro wasn't dark. He was a damn baby. "Boo hoo, they think I'm a kid, so I'll run away... and take the Gundam with me!" And he was still a baby in Zeta! "Boo hoo, I'm afraid to fight again!" As for Uso, yeah, he had a hell of a lot to complain about. I'll give you that. But he didn't really complain at all. He was just boring. Sorry, like Camille or not, at least he was interesting.

[Stamen0083]

...Katoki always seems to want to take his designs over the top (Ex-S gundam anyone?), and the Zeta designs are already pushing that envelope. if the Zeta MS are going to be re-worked, it'd be better to have someone come in and pull them back from the edge.

Sentinel line is more or less Katoki's interpretation of the Z/ZZ era.

There exist ZZ and Z ver Ka., as well as the Mk-II, Quebeley, Barzam, and a myriad other mechs. It's just not as published as the more well known ones. They don't push the envelope anymore than the original design already did. He just made them more likeable.

[Black Valkyrie]

Some of the major joints are done in diecast.

Interesting ! die-cast ! because I really want the HCM Gundam MKII and you can forget the FIX MKII to expensive!

[Graham]

Some of the major joints are done in diecast.

Interesting ! die-cast ! because I really want the HCM Gundam MKII and you can forget the FIX MKII to expensive!

IMO the HCM MK.II does not really have a very good sculpt, the head is a bit wrong, plus I find the body a little chunky. Also, it does not come with a bazooka.

If you want an accurate looking, well articulated, relatively cheap MK.II toy, IMO the MSiA is far better than the HCM.

Graham

[Jolly Rogers]

The HCM Mk-II is an all-around very solid toy. I think its cockpit opens too, just like the MG. Don't think the FIX version's cockpit hatch opens.

Too bad we'll probably not see them again - these were made in Japan. Due to the high labor cost, Bandai only made a very limited production when they were reissued about 2 years ago.

[Keith]

Ok, just finished X last night, and while cool...WHAT THE HELL WAS UP WITH DOME! I realize the episode count was dropped by at least 10, but that whole nonsensicle babble about Newtypes being illusions....! That alone dropped X a few points.

Nonsensicle?

What exactly was hard to understand? DOME's speach was actually pretty simple.

He (it?) wasn't saying that Newtypes themselves were only an illusion, but the concept of Newtypes and what they stood for was an illusion.

With the emergence of Newtypes, people came to see them as the next step of humanity, and with their powers, the ones who would create the future.

DOME's point was that was not the case, and that the future is created not by Newtypes with powers, but by those with the strength and will to create their own futures. Thus his mentioning of Tifa's visions of the future and how Garrod had made it so that not a single one of them had come to pass.

Maybe it's just the script on the HK set, but I didn't get that much out of it. The whole point in the evolution of Newtypes was to create a higher understanding between people, not the flaunting of psychic powers & fortune telling (which was X's major miss with its interpretations of Newtypes in the first place). That whole speech just seemed to shluff Newtypes off as regular people with special powers. Judo...er Garoad was the closest thing to a Newtype in the whole series, even if he couldn't use the Flash system.

Irregardless, that ending suffered from the episode cut. Paula should have gotten a lot more screen time.

Edited February 27, 2004 by Keith

[Graham]

The HCM Mk-II is an all-around very solid toy. I think its cockpit opens too, just like the MG. Don't think the FIX version's cockpit hatch opens.

Too bad we'll probably not see them again - these were made in Japan. Due to the high labor cost, Bandai only made a very limited production when they were reissued about 2 years ago.

You still see the MK.II HCMs quite frequently in toy shops here in HK. I think they sell for between HK$120-HK$160 (US$15-US$20).

And yes, they do have opening cockpits. The beam sabres are one piece grey plastic though, so need painting to look good.

Graham

[Graham]

Getting back on topic, I've recently been wondering how successful Victory Gundam would be in the US if it aired on TV?

Opinions?

Graham

[Stamen0083]

If you want an accurate looking, well articulated, relatively cheap MK.II toy, IMO the MSiA is far better than the HCM.

If you guys want articulation, accuracy (not to mention beauty), and affordability, I'd like to recommend the HGUC Gundam Mk-II. I know it's not a toy, but since it's Bandai, it might as well be. It builds into a very solid, perfectly playable toy. At 1/144, it isn't big enough to dwarf any Macross item and become a thunder stealer, but it's not so small that it lacks details.

I know the prospect of building a model freaks people out, but if you have a nail clipper and an X-acto, you'd be poised to build a nice looking Mk-II, with no proportion problems the HCM present.

EDIT: Did I mention that the kit is only 1000 yen, and it comes with beam rifle, beam saber, bazooka, AND a Vulcan pod?

Edited February 27, 2004 by Stamen0083

[Graham]

If you want an accurate looking, well articulated, relatively cheap MK.II toy, IMO the MSiA is far better than the HCM.

If you guys want articulation, accuracy (not to mention beauty), and affordability, I'd like to recommend the HGUC Gundam Mk-II. I know it's not a toy, but since it's Bandai, it might as well be. It builds into a very solid, perfectly playable toy. At 1/144, it isn't big enough to dwarf any Macross item and become a thunder stealer, but it's not so small that it lacks details.

I know the prospect of building a model freaks people out, but if you have a nail clipper and an X-acto, you'd be poised to build a nice looking Mk-II, with no proportion problems the HCM present.

I agree. The HGUC MK.II is a nice and fairly cheap kit, with a good level of detail, good proportions and decent articulation.

Graham

[drifand]

Some of the major joints are done in diecast.

Interesting ! die-cast ! because I really want the HCM Gundam MKII and you can forget the FIX MKII to expensive!

IMO the HCM MK.II does not really have a very good sculpt, the head is a bit wrong, plus I find the body a little chunky. Also, it does not come with a bazooka.

If you want an accurate looking, well articulated, relatively cheap MK.II toy, IMO the MSiA is far better than the HCM.

Graham

Very true. The old HCMs don't have very modern Katoki'd proportions. The best thing they have going for them is diecast joints and styrene instead of PVC. Here's a comparison of the Mk-II:

[Black Valkyrie]

Some of the major joints are done in diecast.

Interesting ! die-cast ! because I really want the HCM Gundam MKII and you can forget the FIX MKII to expensive!

IMO the HCM MK.II does not really have a very good sculpt, the head is a bit wrong, plus I find the body a little chunky. Also, it does not come with a bazooka.

If you want an accurate looking, well articulated, relatively cheap MK.II toy, IMO the MSiA is far better than the HCM.

Graham

Very true. The old HCMs don't have very modern Katoki'd proportions. The best thing they have going for them is diecast joints and styrene instead of PVC. Here's a comparison of the Mk-II:

Hmph...... I had an MSIA MKII but I sold it, why ? the skirt plates really didn`t hold and the figure was small, I know I have other MSIA figures but for the MKII I prefer it to be a bigger size or scale. I hope Bandai will make a Kadoh-Senshi MKII.

BTW has any you of have pics of DX Gundam MKII that was released in the 80`s ?!

[tetsujin]

I wonder WHY it gets no love. I can easily get MG and HG models from all the other series, even Gundam X and G gundam have more to offer when comes to models and toys, and man... those shows SUCKED.

I think it's like others have said: it was released at an awkward point for Gundam. The whole Zeta arc had just been wrapped and with it everything directly tied to the original Gundam. Also, I think robot shows in general were hitting a low-point because they'd been done to death in the 80's. And going back to it now... well, if it didn't make a big impact when it originally came out, it essentially ranks as just yet another old anime show. G Gundam may be goofy, but at least it was fairly recent.

I think all the little rules about robot shows are kind of funny. Like how the hero's robot has to be in every episode. I'm sure that's why V Gundam starts with that weird flashback deal.

Personally, I can't stand Katoki's designs in general, so the V Gundam is hard to look at. It has the uptight awkwardness of the GP03-S but with none of the charm.

As for how it would do in America... Personally I don't think audiences here generally have much patience for "weird". Like robots flying through space with weird wheel things, or people complaining about some weird bell ringing in their head. So I don't think V would do especially well here.

And don't knock X. That show was pretty good.

[Jolly Rogers]

BTW has any you of have pics of DX Gundam MKII that was released in the 80`s ?!

There ya go.

[Jolly Rogers]

Personally I prefer the version that comes with the Musha Mk-II samurai armor and accessories... thinking about putting my extra one on eBay. How much do you guys think it's worth these days?

[Black Valkyrie]

Personally I prefer the version that comes with the Musha Mk-II samurai armor and accessories... thinking about putting my extra one on eBay. How much do you guys think it's worth these days?

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!! don`t sell it, you`ll regret it later. Are there any reissues of DX MKII or Musha MKII ?

[Jolly Rogers]

I don't think these were ever reissued.

I have 2, and I need to pay bills... if I get a good offer I'll let one go.

[Red Comet]

Why V Gundam unpopular? Because there is no Red Comet....

[drifand]

Personally I prefer the version that comes with the Musha Mk-II samurai armor and accessories... thinking about putting my extra one on eBay.  How much do you guys think it's worth these days?

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!! don`t sell it, you`ll regret it later. Are there any reissues of DX MKII or Musha MKII ?

The DX Musha Gundamcloth Mk-II was already a reissue of sorts for the DX Gundam Mk-II. You can also look for the ridiculously large Korean bootleg of the DX Mk-II by Academy. A perfect, high quality scaled-up repro of the toy.

[bob joe mac]

So bascally we have a majority vote here saying that we do in fact like V gundam so therefore maybe it is not popular outside mech communities but is a great series non the less among us. Qustion solved. It's a shame we will have to wait so long to get V gundam maybe in another 4 years if we are lucky

[Panon]

It's a shame we will have to wait so long to get V gundam maybe in another 4 years if we are lucky

Since there's only four series remaining to be brought over, four years would probably be worst case.

[GRAND CANNON]

The DX Musha Gundamcloth Mk-II was already a reissue of sorts for the DX Gundam Mk-II. You can also look for the ridiculously large Korean bootleg of the DX Mk-II by Academy. A perfect, high quality scaled-up repro of the toy.

A very nice piece, indeed. I guess it could be the "chunky monkey" of Gundam?

Below is a pic behind some DX MSiAs, 1/60 F-91, MG RX-93 & Sazabi, and MSiAs at the bottom for size reference. I believe the scale of the Academy is around 1:43. There is also the General Marshal verison with Musha Armor.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Red Comet]

Some of the major joints are done in diecast.

Interesting ! die-cast ! because I really want the HCM Gundam MKII and you can forget the FIX MKII to expensive!

IMO the HCM MK.II does not really have a very good sculpt, the head is a bit wrong, plus I find the body a little chunky. Also, it does not come with a bazooka.

If you want an accurate looking, well articulated, relatively cheap MK.II toy, IMO the MSiA is far better than the HCM.

Graham

Very true. The old HCMs don't have very modern Katoki'd proportions. The best thing they have going for them is diecast joints and styrene instead of PVC. Here's a comparison of the Mk-II:

Hmph...... I had an MSIA MKII but I sold it, why ? the skirt plates really didn`t hold and the figure was small, I know I have other MSIA figures but for the MKII I prefer it to be a bigger size or scale. I hope Bandai will make a Kadoh-Senshi MKII.

BTW has any you of have pics of DX Gundam MKII that was released in the 80`s ?!

Oooh.....i see lota of pictures of macho mecha wearing sailor schoolgirl uniform...

[Jolly Rogers]

Personally I prefer the version that comes with the Musha Mk-II samurai armor and accessories... thinking about putting my extra one on eBay.  How much do you guys think it's worth these days?

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!! don`t sell it, you`ll regret it later. Are there any reissues of DX MKII or Musha MKII ?

Well, I've put off selling it for as long as I could but I guess the time has come to bid it farewell...

My eBay auction for the DX Musha Gundam Mk-II

Hopefully it'll find a good home and a loving owner.

[Black Valkyrie]

Personally I prefer the version that comes with the Musha Mk-II samurai armor and accessories... thinking about putting my extra one on eBay.  How much do you guys think it's worth these days?

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!! don`t sell it, you`ll regret it later. Are there any reissues of DX MKII or Musha MKII ?

Well, I've put off selling it for as long as I could but I guess the time has come to bid it farewell...

My eBay auction for the DX Musha Gundam Mk-II

Hopefully it'll find a good home and a loving owner.

This site has it, including the 80`s DX Z Gundam :

http://www.wondershowcase.com.sg/estore/in..._3.html#)=en-us

You`ll find them in the action figure section

[Black Valkyrie]

I forgot to mention does it contain die-cast parts ?

[Bloodcat]

125 is a pretty high price, but I have never been a big fan of pricing something due to its rarety, and more on what the actual value of the item itself is..

Nice toy though.

I have to say I liked the little MS In Pocket toys. With some panel inking the one I have is a great toy, especially given its age.

As to those HCMs? Mm.. Vifam!

As to what model/toy to get? If it wasn't for price, the blockier and more "80s" Kahen/Kadou Senshis would be the coolest Gundams. I adore the look of the Zeta they did, but it wasn't worth 50 bucks. Hella nicer than either of the MSiA versions. The ZZ looks great too.

I dunno about V Gundam though. I like the fact the mecha are wierd, but I don't torrent so outside of seeing the opening, I really don't know enough about the series. And considering I am still chomping at the bit for Z and Turn A, I really am not in any hurry. Id rather have it over Seed, but nothing I have seen on Seed makes me want to see it...