Valkyrie Power

[tank]

VF-19's have more power, AND less inherent weight.  But a -22 has much larger wings.    (relative wing size is a huge, huge factor in agility, especially relating to energy management in turns, though it's countered by an increased requirement in thrust)  My vote: -19 can climb faster, and probably roll faster, but a -22 is sleeker (accelerate faster), and maintain a faster turn with more energy.  All in all, pretty darn close to Spitfire vs Bf-109, or most any other "one plane vs its close rival".  Some things never change, no plane can be the best at everything. 

Getting close to a -19 vs -22 argument here. 

This sounds like YF-22 vs YF-23.....

hm...could you guys provides pics of the yf-23?

[Final Vegeta]

I would vote for the VB6 konig monster... with its 4 mounted artillery cannons, its has the most firepower than any of the other valks combine...

Did you ever play VF-X2? The VB-6 is actually so slow I beat it just circling around it. I was very close to him, but it never saw me.

FV

[Anubis]

VF-19's have more power, AND less inherent weight.  But a -22 has much larger wings.     (relative wing size is a huge, huge factor in agility, especially relating to energy management in turns, though it's countered by an increased requirement in thrust)  My vote: -19 can climb faster, and probably roll faster, but a -22 is sleeker (accelerate faster), and maintain a faster turn with more energy.  All in all, pretty darn close to Spitfire vs Bf-109, or most any other "one plane vs its close rival".  Some things never change, no plane can be the best at everything.  

Getting close to a -19 vs -22 argument here. 

This sounds like YF-22 vs YF-23.....

hm...could you guys provides pics of the yf-23?

DH would be referring to the real like YF-22/YF-23 competition. It's been used a lot to compare the YF-19/YF-21 competition in M+.

Edited March 1, 2004 by Anubis

[Angel's Fury]

How's this for comparison pics of the YF-22 and the YF-23?

YF-23:

YF-22:

and a side by side pic of the two:

[mechaninac]

I just love the name Pheyos. That word, in Portuguese, or Spanish I suppose, means: ugly ones. The only difference is that in Portuguese the spelling would be "feios", but it's an apt description any way you slice it.

Edited March 1, 2004 by mechaninac

[Aurel Tristen]

The Pheyos valkrie also supposed to have the Same BDI/BCS sensor as the yf-21

I think in light of the other thread, on the YF-21-YF19 discussion that hte YF-21 was more effective, but waaay too expensive. I'd put my lot in with the -21 being the most effective fighter of its 2040~50 timeframe... except that it was too expensive and a one off.

The idea that the 'Pheyos Valkyrie' has Brain Control System was something that Dave Deitrich made up and it not true. Nor was it designated the Fz-150. There is no such thing as an Fz-150. The Fz prefrix was used by the Varuata/Protodeviln for their fighters. The proper/officiial identification for the 'Pheyos Valkyre' is simply "Variable Machine" and it is a hostile Zjentohlauedy design.

[EganLoo]

There is one Valkyrie that can 'beat' the VF-19 and VF-22....

^^; hehe

And what is it? You're not making this up, right?

No. I don't make things up. Its in the numbers.

http://nanashi.macrossmecha.info/resrc/cat...le_machine.html

The original poster was asking about power and efficiency. The Macross creators do not state "in numbers" that the Zentradi Variable Device "can 'beat' the VF-19 and VF-22" in power or efficiency. They only gave observed atmospheric speeds and empty mass statistics, and deliberately did not specify the thrust and combat mass statistics. As David Hingtgen noted, thrust/weight ratio is an ideal indicator of an aircraft's power in air combat maneuvers.

That is why the Macross creators deliberately couched their own specifications to say the Variable Device's capabilities "appears" to "approach" or "exceed" the other variable aircraft's -- but not give statistics to definitively state it can "beat" them in power or efficiency.

For accurate, official statistics on the Zentradi Variable Device, please see the following:

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/zentrad...ariable_device/

[EganLoo]

The Pheyos valkrie also supposed to have the Same BDI/BCS sensor as the yf-21

I think in light of the other thread, on the YF-21-YF19 discussion that hte YF-21 was more effective, but waaay too expensive. I'd put my lot in with the -21 being the most effective fighter of its 2040~50 timeframe... except that it was too expensive and a one off.

The idea that the 'Pheyos Valkyrie' has Brain Control System was something that Dave Deitrich made up and it not true. Nor was it designated the Fz-150. There is no such thing as an Fz-150. The Fz prefrix was used by the Varuata/Protodeviln for their fighters. The proper/officiial identification for the 'Pheyos Valkyre' is simply "Variable Machine" and it is a hostile Zjentohlauedy design.

It is inaccurate to say that it is official. "Variable Machine" was a preliminary name for the mecha, despite what has been written. The official name for its debut in Macross Digital Mission VF-X is Variable Device.

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/zentrad...ariable_device/

[Angel's Fury]

Thanks fo explaining this further Egan and welcome back!

Edited March 2, 2004 by Angel's Fury

[Noyhauser]

hmm I guess I was wrong about the BCI inclusion. I could of sworn I had read it somewhere though... but I always thought it strange that it did have such an advanced and classified system. Maybe I mistook it for the Inclusion of the Q-Rau systems, which I guess refers to the Inertia vector control sytem.

Edited March 2, 2004 by Noyhauser

[mikeszekely]

The Pheyos valkrie also supposed to have the Same BDI/BCS sensor as the yf-21

I think in light of the other thread, on the YF-21-YF19 discussion that hte YF-21 was more effective, but waaay too expensive. I'd put my lot in with the -21 being the most effective fighter of its 2040~50 timeframe... except that it was too expensive and a one off.

The idea that the 'Pheyos Valkyrie' has Brain Control System was something that Dave Deitrich made up and it not true. Nor was it designated the Fz-150. There is no such thing as an Fz-150. The Fz prefrix was used by the Varuata/Protodeviln for their fighters. The proper/officiial identification for the 'Pheyos Valkyre' is simply "Variable Machine" and it is a hostile Zjentohlauedy design.

It is inaccurate to say that it is official. "Variable Machine" was a preliminary name for the mecha, despite what has been written. The official name for its debut in Macross Digital Mission VF-X is Variable Device.

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/zentrad...ariable_device/

Isn't "Pheyos" or "Feios" official? When I got VF-X-2, it had a page with all the mecha, and I'm pretty sure it was on there listed as "Feios."

And what about EVA, or Enemy Valkyrie?

[azrael]

Isn't "Pheyos" or "Feios" official? When I got VF-X-2, it had a page with all the mecha, and I'm pretty sure it was on there listed as "Feios."

And what about EVA, or Enemy Valkyrie?

It's listed under the codenames/Unofficial designations, kinda like nicknames. When you call it Feios/Feious/Pheyos/EVA/Enemy Valkyrie, they all point to the same thing, Zentradi Variable Device. You could call it by anyone of those names and we won't hurt you. Kinda like the VF-5000. The Design Works book and the Studio Half-Eye model lists it's name as "Star Mirage". It's not correct but we won't say your wrong because it's a nickname/codename/unofficial designation that has been used. You could call it "Star Mirage" or VF-5000 and there would be nothing wrong with it. Heck even "Feios" is used the the Design Works book, but again, it's not right but it's not wrong. What's easier to remember? Feios Valk? Or Zentradi Variable Device? Obvious the former.

[David Hingtgen]

Yup, military stuff is pretty much called what people call it, despite official names. F-111 wasn't officially the Aardvark until the day it retired. For all of its active life, it had no name.

And then there's nicknames which are used so often they act like the "real" name. See the Fairchild Thunderbolt II. Which is much more commonly known as the A-10 Warthog.

Finally--how often do you hear the term "Lancer" for a bomber? (B-1B)

[SilverValkyrie]

About as much as you hear someone talk about a B-1B (read: NEVER)

Valkyrie

Edited March 4, 2004 by SilverValkyrie

[Anubis]

About as much as you hear someone talk about a B-1B (read: NEVER)

Valkyrie

I wish I had pics of the B-1 when some came to Hill for an exercise once. I love how hollow the fuselage is with all the bomb space. Looks very impressive. Since a lot of us hadn't seen one yet, their Egress guys took us up to see the inside of the cockpit and showed us the Hatches and logic gates the Egress System used. Nice plane.

On the same note as above, how often do you hear the B-2 referred to as the Spirit? I still think that name is stupid for a bomber of that caliber. I've always called jets by their numbers anyway. I've always associated the A-10 with Thunderbolt though.

The F-22 is one example where the nickname finally became the official one, going from Lightning II to Raptor.

Edited March 4, 2004 by Anubis

[Angel's Fury]

About as much as you hear someone talk about a B-1B (read: NEVER)

Valkyrie

I wish I had pics of the B-1 when some came to Hill for an exercise once. I love how hollow the fuselage is with all the bomb space. Looks very impressive. Since a lot of us hadn't seen one yet, their Egress guys took us up to see the inside of the cockpit and showed us the Hatches and logic gates the Egress System used. Nice plane.

On the same note as above, how often do you hear the B-2 referred to as the Spirit? I still think that name is stupid for a bomber of that caliber. I've always called jets by their numbers anyway. I've always associated the A-10 with Thunderbolt though.

The F-22 is one example where the nickname finally became the official one, going from Lightning II to Raptor.

Anubis, I hope you'll like this read about the B-1. Also here are some pics of it. B-1B Lancer

[Aurel Tristen]

The Pheyos valkrie also supposed to have the Same BDI/BCS sensor as the yf-21

I think in light of the other thread, on the YF-21-YF19 discussion that hte YF-21 was more effective, but waaay too expensive. I'd put my lot in with the -21 being the most effective fighter of its 2040~50 timeframe... except that it was too expensive and a one off.

The idea that the 'Pheyos Valkyrie' has Brain Control System was something that Dave Deitrich made up and it not true. Nor was it designated the Fz-150. There is no such thing as an Fz-150. The Fz prefrix was used by the Varuata/Protodeviln for their fighters. The proper/officiial identification for the 'Pheyos Valkyre' is simply "Variable Machine" and it is a hostile Zjentohlauedy design.

It is inaccurate to say that it is official. "Variable Machine" was a preliminary name for the mecha, despite what has been written. The official name for its debut in Macross Digital Mission VF-X is Variable Device.

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/zentrad...ariable_device/

I see. I read "Variable Machine" on the production design sheets.... they seemed to be the final sheets. Not the rough designs. So Studio Nue re-named this design after they did the final design on paper....

Edit: Are you sure? In the book Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works, p. 72, it also says "Variable Machine" just like on the VF-X production staff design sheets.... : / That would be a while after Macross Digital Mission VF-X's release date.

http://nanashi.macrossmecha.info/resrc/cat...le_machine.html

Edited March 4, 2004 by Nanashi

[Zentrandude]

ow this is becomming a wj vs egan battle. wear ya goggles everyone cuz its going to get messy.

[daeudi]

Not really a messy fight....

It's pretty simple-

Egan Loo: Authorized Source.

WindJammer/Nanashi: Guy who can't tell the difference between official documents and fan documents and crap generated by profiteers and bootleggers. Also a guy who tries to blatantly infringe on copyright, as well as refuse to reveal his sources to the masses (hiding what?) Someone who thinks that just because he paid big money for it, he can call it official.

Let's be honest- WJ has been swinging, then EL finally got in the ring and KO'd WJ with a flurry of short quick jabs of truth. And the undefeated champion: the authorized source!

[lt.eiji]

and that would be Kawamori-San himself? Anyone knows his website?

[daeudi]

and that would be Kawamori-San himself? Anyone knows his website?

We should be so lucky!

No, really- we should.

Egan Loo

http://www.anime.net/macross/introduction/...NotRobotechNote

This resource is sanctioned by Bandai Visual and Manga Entertainment, Inc.

...

Copyright © 1994-2000 by Big West and its licensees/Egan Loo. All rights reserved. All materials on this site used with express prior permission. Product and brand names are trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective owners. Portions of the text earlier published in Anime Magic, Animerica, Anime UK, Cal-Animage Konshuu, and Protoculture Addicts with the author's permission.

I said "Authorized Source" not" The Great Froating Head Source".

[Live_Wire212]

I'm not entierly sure about this but i think i read somewear that the controll system of the yf-21 was scraped in the 22 because it was either too demanding on the piolt or it caused some kinda brain damage again im not positive on that tho, but if you ask me for a personal opinion the vf-1 beats the vf-0 just because the zeros were rushed into service to keep up with the anti united gov so they had to run off fule instead of the reactors they had pland on, i dont have much of an opinion on other valks because i havent resurched them too much, however in the argument of the 19 vs 21 i would say the 19 had a 65-45 just going by the stats shown in macross plus and when Dyson and Guld went at it in the battle city the 19 clearly had the win in sheer strength i mean it ripped the 21s arm off. however these are all just my opinions.

please dont kill me

[Vinnie]

Not really a messy fight....

It's pretty simple-

Egan Loo: Authorized Source.

WindJammer/Nanashi: Guy who can't tell the difference between official documents and fan documents and crap generated by profiteers and bootleggers. Also a guy who tries to blatantly infringe on copyright, as well as refuse to reveal his sources to the masses (hiding what?) Someone who thinks that just because he paid big money for it, he can call it official.

Let's be honest- WJ has been swinging, then EL finally got in the ring and KO'd WJ with a flurry of short quick jabs of truth. And the undefeated champion: the authorized source!

Wow! That sounds kind of bitter.

Some guy's says: "here I've paid lots of money to get these expensive and ultra-rare sources of Macross material. I've further taken the time to scan them, hire someone to translate, compile, edit, and post them on a website. Then announce to you that they are available free of charge."

And all you can do is trash talk him?

Man, if I got appreciation like that. I'd shut my site down and just sit in the corner saying "I know something you don't know."

[Final Vegeta]

in the argument of the 19 vs 21 i would say the 19 had a 65-45 just going by the stats shown in macross plus and when Dyson and Guld went at it in the battle city the 19 clearly had the win in sheer strength i mean it ripped the 21s arm off.

I think this was meant as an inverted feedback from the pilot. Since Guld was hurt, the 21 was somehow weaker.

I think that was the appearance authors wanted to give to the scene. Anyway, the 19 should have stronger engines than the 21, this should be a fact. With an armor energy based, the failing of Guld proper controlling it resulting in the loss of an arm should be likely explained.

FV

[Protoplast]

in the argument of the 19 vs 21 i would say the 19 had a 65-45 just going by the stats shown in macross plus and when Dyson and Guld went at it in the battle city the 19 clearly had the win in sheer strength i mean it ripped the 21s arm off.

I think this was meant as an inverted feedback from the pilot. Since Guld was hurt, the 21 was somehow weaker.

I think that was the appearance authors wanted to give to the scene. Anyway, the 19 should have stronger engines than the 21, this should be a fact. With an armor energy based, the failing of Guld proper controlling it resulting in the loss of an arm should be likely explained.

FV

Maybe that's because Isamu is a better close-combat pilot than Guld.

I think the 21 more versitile like the F15 bomber, it can carry more payload and best for recon and bombing missiongs, the VF-19S is sort of like the F-16, it is a very good combat fighter but lacks the payload capacity of the VF-22, it's a trade-off for speed.

[EganLoo]

It is inaccurate to say that it is official. "Variable Machine" was a preliminary name for the mecha, despite what has been written. The official name for its debut in Macross Digital Mission VF-X is Variable Device.

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/zentrad...ariable_device/

I see. I read "Variable Machine" on the production design sheets.... they seemed to be the final sheets. Not the rough designs. So Studio Nue re-named this design after they did the final design on paper....

Edit: Are you sure? In the book Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works, p. 72, it also says "Variable Machine" just like on the VF-X production staff design sheets.... : / That would be a while after Macross Digital Mission VF-X's release date.

You are confusing the description of the vehicle -- "enemy variable machine for use in VF-X" -- with its finalized name. I met and interviewed the staff of Macross Digital Mission VF-X (UNiT, Inc. and Studio Nue) during and after its production.

For better or worse, the Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works book is a comprehensive record of his designs -- but not the perfect arbiter of what is official or preliminary. The editors compiled an impressive archive, but let some mistakes slip in -- such as the Miyatake's sole credit for the VE-1, VF-1J's infamous preliminary gunpod (although noted as such), the name "Stampeed Valkyrie," and "enemy variable machine for use in VF-X." (Yep, that's exactly what it sounds like -- the working design description until a name was coined.)

[Hikaru1234567890]

Now that I am "APPARENTLY" bringing this thread back from the old grave it came from... Which do you guys think is the most power Valkyrie from The vintage VF-1, to the shiny new YF-30?

[Gerli]

Wow, a 10 years old post

This counts as a Valkyrie?

[Nekko Basara]

I think it's whatever Valkyrie that has Max in it.

[Mr March]

Seeing this thread come back from the dead in 2004 makes me lament the official trivia we don't have for Macross. Don't get me wrong, Macross has been very reliable over the years providing statistics for all the major hero valkyries, in many cases far better than the other mecha franchises. But I had always hoped that eventually they would expand the trivia fiction for the VF-1 Valkyrie and far beyond, providing power ratings, loadout weights and weapon muzzle velocity/explosive yields for all the major variable fighters of the franchise. Now 10 years after this topic, we've had two editions of the Macross Chronicle and five Master File books. While some of my dream trivia has been published, most has not. I suppose we'll always be left to guess just how much more power was generated by the later VFs after the 650MW engines of the VF-1 Valkyrie. It looks like this era will likely be the apex of Macross technical trivia, so I will shed a tear and force myself to be thankful for what we do have

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

They need to make a Macross MMO flight sim.

[Kyp Durron]

In terms of versatility, I'd have to go with the VF-25, the modern version the original VF-1.

[Devil 505]

What about some of those souped-up customs from Macross the Ride? Most of them are already faster than stock VFs.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Devil 505