Q On Weathering

[Hikuro]

From a friend of mine, he said that after you soak the parts and dry them, use flat black primer and completely cover the model kit. After it dries for a day or two, take your second spray can color, like red, white, blue what ever and lightly spray over the now black model kit. Do it twice and make sure it's light and you should have a weathered/panel lined model kit. Is this true?

[Grayson72]

Doesn't sound like any weathering technique I ever heard of. Especially since it mentions using spray cans and not an airbrush.

[Hikuro]

I think it's because Spray Cans and Air Brushing is almost similar....I don't know, I'm gonna go shopping for some supplies later today, and I'm just gonna go buy a cheapy little air brush gun since they're only 25 bucks.

[David Hingtgen]

That sounds like the infamous Watanabe style. But you CAN'T do it with spray cans. It needs to be airbrushed. And airbrushed well. It's way up there in difficulty, AFAIK. Looks great, if you can do it.

[Hikuro]

hmmmmmmm that sucks guess I'll have to wait to put my Jack Archor custom Hasegawa VF-1A together till I get a airbrush gun...I spent way to much money today.

[Mechleader]

Yes I have heard of this. I bought a book, (from Badger I think) on model painting and it tells you to do this. BUT it says that the black first to bring out detail. You will still need an air brush to paint it. NOT the spray cans for the final coat. I even bought the model that they show how to use. It worked to a degree. Still need a wash and etc.

Hope this helps.

[Hikuro]

Okay so for a Flat Black primer that's okay? But once you want to start working on the final colors, like Red and White, you need an airbrush gun?

[bsu legato]

The price tag may be a little daunting for a newcommer, but an airbrush will be the best investment you can make if you're serious about modeling.

And airbrushing red paint over a black base coat will just aggrivate you. Red is notoriously difficult to work with. If you want to truly replicate the "Max Technique" you be better off applying white over the black primer, then spraying your red. But the Max technique is just a variation of whats generally known as "pre-shading." The difference, as I've seen it explained, is that Max mostly uses clear colors over his base coats. While this does create some interesting finishes, it's not vital.

[Hikuro]

Okay so now that we have settled the fact that an Airbrush gun is the key, what else? Is there certain types of paint I should be using and just not any brand? What about cleaner?

I've seen a cheap airbrush gun from Walmart, 25 bucks, I think that may be good for a beginner such as myself.I've already gone ahead and ordered a Hasegawa VF-1A on Saturday, but more than likely wont show up till Wenseday or Thursday and willing to wait since I need to get some putty, wet/dry sandpaper, some good masking tape and paint supplies.

Also just to clear things up, the reason I'm picking a Jack Archor custom, is mostly because I need to learn to do a mixture of different colors and it's to pay homage to him. Out of the Robotech cast, I found him interesting. I'm also trying to stay clear to Robotech merchandise after the Poseable issue, so you wont see me buying a Robotech product for some time or until the game comes out

Another reason is because I wont have to use so many damn decals on this kit, just lil UN Spacy symbols here and there, the kite symbol and that'd be about all she wrote. Also came close on buying a second one to make an Izzy Custom...oh well maybe next time.

[Rodavan]

Has anybody used a weathering technique , that uses chalk ( not oily stuff)

You create a very fine chalk powder then , brush on , excess is wiped of with damp cloth, then sealed ?

I want to try it on a VF-1a I bought a few months ago?

[Mechleader]

Yes black as a base and then airbrush. Paints try Tamiya or other water based paints. You can get a cheap aircan to use with an airbrush but be careful. The cans tend to get very cold and ice up. Plus don't breath in if you take off the cap. I did and man I my throat and lungs closed! And the cans run out quick.

Try it first then if you want to get a a airbrush or compressor try Dixiart.com They are very good and free shipping over fourty dollars.

[Hikuro]

Well I just got my Macross kit today and god I'm already freaking out on how hard this is gonna be...I haven't built a Hasegawa kit in 3 years and even than I never finished it cause I broke it half way. This time I'll be more careful, but I'm going to try new stuff.

I think I'll go with just some normal spray cans stuff for now since those give rich and colorful tones. Plus I can get them pretty cheap and may go get them tomorrow or friday after work. So tonight I'll probably take some pictures for my site and than wash 'em down to get rid of any dirt or oil that may be on the parts.

So now I need a semi dark colored red, black, gunmetal gray, green and white...there seems to be enough decals on there that I can use a few of them for the detail job and maybe just carefully go over the panel lines in pencil or fine tipped pen....I don't think my idea is really gonna work on it : /

[Hikuro]

Okay after taking close look at the model, there is NO WAY I can pencil or ink in those panel lines which are SO small. I'll have no choice but to start using an airbrush to get this job done.

Okay so help me with the list:

1) Airbrush gun with Propellent

2) Water based paints for the airbrush

3) Flat Black Primer spray can

4) Wet/Dry Sandpaper, very fine.

So anything else I miss?

[David Hingtgen]

Don't forget the "E"--- www.dixieart.com Lots of people buy airbrushes and supplies from there.

[tetsujin]

That sounds like the infamous Watanabe style.  But you CAN'T do it with spray cans.  It needs to be airbrushed.  And airbrushed well.  It's way up there in difficulty, AFAIK.  Looks great, if you can do it.

Actually, the technique he described is a simple form of pre-shading, and not Max Technique. Max Tech takes pre-shading further, and a lot of it has to do with how colors are selected for the shading and layering. One thing that's fairly distinctive about Max Technique, I think, is the use of clear colors for hue and effect: to paint Max red, you start with something relatively neutral, like white over brown, and then paint clear red on top of it. Max White is actually white over gray, with a third, highlight layer composed of clear and fluorescent colors, making the white "glow".

There are some fundamental problems with painting colors over black, whether using an airbrush or spray cans. First off, if the difference in the colors is too great, the gradient won't appear smooth enough, it'll be speckled. Second, black doesn't really blend well into some colors anyway, such as red. Black paint has a bit of a bluish or greenish hue, where what you generally want when shading red is just a darker red. I've seen pre-shaded reds where the red-over-black made the edges look bluish or purplish, I've always hated that effect.

(EDIT): Actually, I think it's technically a "color rise", not a pre-shade, but I'm not sure. I think pre-shading is where you apply different patterns of light and dark colors to the part and then spray the final color on top - and the undercoat changes the final color a little.

Edited February 27, 2004 by tetsujin

[tetsujin]

Okay after taking close look at the model, there is NO WAY I can pencil or ink in those panel lines which are SO small.

You needn't. Use a wash, the paint will guide itself into those panel lines.

Gloss coat your kit (very important)

Water down some acrylic paint to the point where it is more water than paint

Load some onto a brush

Touch the brush to a panel line, paint should flow into the panel line. If not, help it along a little.

Wipe away excess paint.

[Hikuro]

Hmmm only type of Gloss I got is in the spray can form, hope that's what you meant. I'm sleepy as hell so I'm just scanning things. i went shopping after work just before doing my inventory stuff tonight, I picked up a neat Nissan Skyline GT-R and bought some paint. I got the Tamiya Black spray paint, and some other stuff for my Skyline, but the Black is the big kicker, most expensive paint I've ever bought.

I wont be working on the kit till sometime the week after next, so people have got plenty of time to fill me in on this stuff...

[Hikuro]

Okay I think I've pretty much changed my mind on the Jack Archor VF-1A, I'm actually getting very use to Decals now too, after doing a few car kits it just starts to get really easy...

Anyways, so what would I need to do to make a nice looking VF-1A, either max, hikaru or kahazaki I don't care which.

For sure I'd have to have black spray paint (I can get Tamiya easily but it's like 3 bucks a can) for the primer coat...than an airbrush and use flat white to cover up the primer but giving the weathered down effect, it should also highlite the panel lines shouldn't it? Also...when putting on the decals, how do I keep the panel lines showing instead of being covered up by the decals...is there some special lil trick to do? And when do I use it? moments after applying the decal, or wait a few hours for the decal to dry and THAN use what ever the trick of the craft is?

[Prons]

Actually, its not hard to get a good effect with an airbrush, my measly 59.99 did good things on my Aile Strike gundam, it was my first time using it though, it took me 80% of an air can to master the thing though.

[tetsujin]

Actually, its not hard to get a good effect with an airbrush, my measly 59.99 did good things on my Aile Strike gundam, it was my first time using it though, it took me 80% of an air can to master the thing though.

Aircans are like that. When I used them I went through them too quickly, so I got a compressor as soon as I could.

[Wicked Ace]

Has anybody used a weathering technique , that uses chalk ( not oily stuff)

You create a very fine chalk powder then , brush on , excess is wiped of with damp cloth, then sealed ?

I want to try it on a VF-1a I bought a few months ago?

I've seen some chalk work, first hand, at a hobby store, and it looks awesome. The drawback, as the modeler told me, is that it is an "advanced technique."

For somebody who is reluctant to use an airbrush for the first time, you might try rubbing a pencil onto a piece of cardstock and using your finger to smear the weathering on and then covering the weathering with Future or other sealer of choice. This is what it looks like.

[Wicked Ace]

And a far shot. For beginners, like me, the pencil is nice, because there's always the eraser if you get too much on. Airbrush is hard to erase!

[Anasazi37]

And a far shot. For beginners, like me, the pencil is nice, because there's always the eraser if you get too much on. Airbrush is hard to erase!

What also works well is using charcoal pastels (available at most art supply stores). You take a q-tip and rub it along the length of the pastel chalk, then use the q-tip to apply the weathering where needed. Takes some of the guesswork out of this "advanced" technique. It's pretty similar to smearing pencil on cardstock, but a lot more accurate.

[Prons]

I never thought of it, but a charcol pencil, would that work good for pannels?

[Wicked Ace]

What also works well is using charcoal pastels (available at most art supply stores). You take a q-tip and rub it along the length of the pastel chalk, then use the q-tip to apply the weathering where needed. Takes some of the guesswork out of this "advanced" technique. It's pretty similar to smearing pencil on cardstock, but a lot more accurate.

I don't know why the guy at the hobby store didn't just say, "use a Q-tip if you're a beginner." Anyway, thanks for the "tip." I'll definitely give this one a try.

[captain america]

I've seen the Max Wantabe pre-shading technique discussed earlier in the thread, and I just wanted to say that there are better ways of creating a weathered look that is infinitely more realistic.

All you really need are acrylic paints, a good airbrish, some chalk pastels ( cheap ones are great) and a few Q-tips.

You simply paint & decal your model as normal. No pre-shading or nonsense of that sort necessary. Once you're done, apply a flat clear overcoat and let dry.

Now the fun begins... You take your airbrush ( a very fine spraying ability is necessary) and spray a slightly darker or lighter shade of the base coat, but in small, carefully-controlled patchwork shapes. You must absolutely be using flat paints for this. Once these small patches are dry, take a black or brown stick of chalk pastel & over a small shallow dish, gently scrape-off some of the chalk with a sharp hobby knife until you have a small pile of chalk powder.

Now, take a Q-tip and swirl it into the chalk powder sparingly, being sure to wipe off the excess, and then rub the Q-tip gently in random areas to create a dirty look. A stippling motion works best, and don't worry: if you apply too much, just blow it off and start over. once you've covered all the desired areas with the chalk, proceed to re-airbrush some different colored patchwork over this to make your mecha look like it's been maintained/repaired.

This technique mostly replicates the look of naval aircraft which have a worn & repaired look to them... Probably similar to what a Valkyrie would look like in service

The pic below shows the technique applied tol a 1/48 Tomcat.

[Neova]

John,

That weathering looks FANTASTIC! I would love to see Roy's VF-0S at "veteran" status with that weathering!

When you have time, can you do a step by step perhaps? Us model newbs need all the hand holding we can get!

Keep it up!