macross 7

[akt_m]

search tool does not work so i am asking, is there a good reason in m7 to macross 7 make a transformation? in macross they had to transform because it was the only way they could use the main cannon.

[JELEINEN]

Because it looks cool.

[Anubis]

Already extensively covered in the n00b thread. Should answer all your questions.

[azrael]

I still prefer calling you people lazy.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...opic=140&st=380

[CoryHolmes]

It transforms because every mecha in Macross (it seems) must transform. Ships, Valkyries, and even destroids now, all transform regardless of whether or not they fit the story.

[JELEINEN]

I still prefer calling you people lazy.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...opic=140&st=380

How about smart enough not to bother sifting through almost thirty pages. Once again, pinned mega-threads are a lame idea.

[JB0]

I still prefer calling you people lazy.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...opic=140&st=380

How about smart enough not to bother sifting through almost thirty pages. Once again, pinned mega-threads are a lame idea.

14 pages.

Yes, I jack up the posts-per-page to the max on EVERY forum where it's an option.

[Keith]

The question isn't why Battle 7 transforms, but why almost every other ship in sci-fi doesn't! Hell, the only other ship that's bad ass enough to get away with an excuse for not transforming is the Yamato.

[Druna Skass]

Hell, the only other ship that's bad ass enough to get away with an excuse for not transforming is the Yamato.

What about Darth Vader's Executor?

[Dangard Ace]

Hell, the only other ship that's bad ass enough to get away with an excuse for not transforming is the Yamato.

What about Darth Vader's Executor?

...and Harlocks Arcadia.

[Zentrandude]

It transforms because every mecha in Macross (it seems) must transform. Ships, Valkyries, and even destroids now, all transform regardless of whether or not they fit the story.

atleast the fly cars and shuttles didnt transform in m7 or maybe they can...

what bothers me why would the gun ship have a bayanet looking thing they never used. you think in all the insanely ammount of episodes you get 1 that shows battle7 making an air vent for one of the vatura ships.

[Radd]

The Arcadia had a giant bayonet that popped out for ramming ships, if I recall. It would have been sweet to see Battle 7 doing something like that. I'm perfectly fine with Battle 7 transforming, for the same reason I'm fine with the martians working themselves into extinction to convert their planet into a giant spaceship.

Zim, "But why would you do such a thing?"

Martian Hologram, "Because it's cooooooool!"

[Keith]

True, the Arcadia is an exception too, as is the Andromeda (Yamato series II, not the bad kevin sorbo show).

[KingNor]

It transforms because every mecha in Macross (it seems) must transform. Ships, Valkyries, and even destroids now, all transform regardless of whether or not they fit the story.

if you see this as a bad thing, i agree.

i like the vf-1 valks because of all the mecha in anime, these are of the select few that have a story driven, beleivable reason to transform.

[macplus]

The reason for the M7 transformation is quite obvious, it wouldn't be a macross withput transformation, however the real question is why they put hands with fingers on the already crappy looking ship...... beats me, the gun ship is not a bad idea but to put fingers is way too stupid, anyway Macross 7 is not a show directed to mecha, it's more in favor of the characters, I don't care hearing Basara or Mylene, but what they were doing with the Clown force and the stupid sound energy, and all the Protodevilin sh.t is way over the top, as someone said once, we wanted a Macross sequel, not Sailor moon... Later folks...

[CoryHolmes]

It transforms because every mecha in Macross (it seems) must transform.  Ships, Valkyries, and even destroids now, all transform regardless of whether or not they fit the story.

if you see this as a bad thing, i agree.

i like the vf-1 valks because of all the mecha in anime, these are of the select few that have a story driven, beleivable reason to transform.

Hell yes it's a bad thing.

The SDF-1 transforming... engh, I can see that. But I draw the line with Battle 7. A capital-scale ship should NOT have hands and fingers a gun pod. Not in any show that's related to a serious story such as Macross.

Same with the Koing monster. No reason at all for that thing to transform except that it's cool. And with the construction mecha, not to mention the Elintseeker (a seperate argument, but it fits in here). None of those need to transform and do simply to make the show look cool and sell more toys/models/whatever.

[Keith]

You know what's even less necessary than all of the above transforming? People bitching about why things transform. Simple fact of the matter is that they do. If you don't like it, go watch paint dry.

[wolfx]

The SDF-1 transforming... engh, I can see that. But I draw the line with Battle 7. A capital-scale ship should NOT have hands and fingers a gun pod. Not in any show that's related to a serious story such as Macross.

Ok, I'm gonna be the nice guy here. About a month ago in the n00b thread I posted this question. I'm not gonna find the exact page that is on but, I think it was Azrael who said that the transformation would give the Battle 7 a better firing arc. Something like a tank's turret only that its omni-directional by 180 degrees. Its faster to move the arm/gun than to move the whole ship to target something. It makes sense IMHO.

[CoryHolmes]

That's beside the point. The point is that a captial-scale ship having hands and arms and a gunpod... is too far into cheeky munchkinism to be taken seriously in any show.

And before you get started, yes, I know that Macross 7 is much less than serious and it's supposed to be cheeky... but by doing so, it drags down the rest of the Macross universe with it.

[Final Vegeta]

The question is not why Battle 7 transforms, is why they didn't ever make a transformable toy of it! There's nothing worse for a mecha than potential toys wasted.

FV

[Basara Nekki]

Having a capital ship with hands may seem strange at first(I refuse to get into this worthless 'I hate M7' crap running around), but if you think about it having maniuplator arms gives you the ultimate advantage in close quarters. A creative bridge crew could make those hands deadly weapons, and that's without using big ol' explosives at too short a range(Remember the whole flying debries thing so ignored by most anime/sci-fi?). It also came in handy when the Battle 7 had to brace itself against the City 7 and halt it's decaying orbit into a star, especially since the outer hull of City 7 has all those wierd and admitedly abstract angles and whatnot. Being able to manipulate objects on a grand scale like that in a galaxy full of big ass ships gives the Macross class battle sections an overall advantage in a number of situations. Oh, and it looks really damn cool(I happen to think battle sections look really good but please excuse this unworthy M7 fan )

[JB0]

Mfft. Dunno what happened here.

Edited February 23, 2004 by JB0

[JB0]

That's beside the point. The point is that a captial-scale ship having hands and arms and a gunpod... is too far into cheeky munchkinism to be taken seriously in any show.

And before you get started, yes, I know that Macross 7 is much less than serious and it's supposed to be cheeky... but by doing so, it drags down the rest of the Macross universe with it.

You HAVE watched the original series, haven't you?

A creative bridge crew could make those hands deadly weapons, and that's without using big ol' explosives at too short a range(Remember the whole flying debries thing so ignored by most anime/sci-fi?).

"DAEDALUS ATTACK!"

"Ummm, captain? We don't HAVE a Daedalus."

"Well 'punch the other ship silly' doesn't sound right, so shut up!"

[ManxoChu]

"DAEDALUS ATTACK!"

"Ummm, captain? We don't HAVE a Daedalus."

"Well 'punch the other ship silly' doesn't sound right, so shut up!"

"But Captain, we HAVE NO DAEDALUS!"

"Fine... I've got it! SHORYUKEN!"

"......."

"...What?"

"I'm taking my coffee break now, sir."

[Agent ONE]

I agree with Az's Tank turret analogy.

The transforming ship was the LEAST lame part of M7.

[CoryHolmes]

That's beside the point.  The point is that a captial-scale ship having hands and arms and a gunpod... is too far into cheeky munchkinism to be taken seriously in any show.

And before you get started, yes, I know that Macross 7 is much less than serious and it's supposed to be cheeky... but by doing so, it drags down the rest of the Macross universe with it.

You HAVE watched the original series, haven't you?

Please note that I said "too cheeky munchkinism". I can handle a little in Macross, as SDF proved with it's Daedalus attack, and even that ship transforming. I can handle that because it was in the story universe RIGHT FROM THE START.

Planes that transform? Yep. Captial ships that transfrom? Yep. Captial ships that transform and have hands and a pod... uhh... nope, that's new.

They changed the whole tone of the universe right from the start with Macross 7, and I don't like that very much. I prefer my Macross as a serious war and character story. To me, Macross Plus is the best example of what the Macross universe has to offer, even more so than SDF.

[Zentrandude]

not many realized this but the hands also serve as psychological warfare. wouldnt you be intimidated when you see a very large ship giving you the finger before he unloads the gunship on you and your fleet.

[imode]

not many realized this but the hands also serve as psychological warfare. wouldnt you be intimidated when you see a very large ship giving you the finger before he unloads the gunship on you and your fleet.

I'd prefer to just blow him up while he transforms.

[EXO]

not many realized this but the hands also serve as psychological warfare.  wouldnt you be intimidated when you see a very large ship giving you the finger before he unloads the gunship on you and your fleet.

I'd prefer to just blow him up while he transforms.

Um... that's considered in the universal code of space warfare as time-outties. No fair blowing up while transforming or combining.

ADDED: combining

Edited February 24, 2004 by >EXO<

[imode]

not many realized this but the hands also serve as psychological warfare.  wouldnt you be intimidated when you see a very large ship giving you the finger before he unloads the gunship on you and your fleet.

I'd prefer to just blow him up while he transforms.

Um... that's considered in the universal code of space warfare as time-outties. No fair blowing up while transforming or combining.

ADDED: combining

Well, if he's going to give me the bird, I get to throw my little jabs in there too.

[JB0]

They changed the whole tone of the universe right from the start with Macross 7, and I don't like that very much. I prefer my Macross as a serious war and character story. To me, Macross Plus is the best example of what the Macross universe has to offer, even more so than SDF.

So you didn't laugh when Exedol burst into song because he didn't know Minmay's name?

Or when Millia told Misa that if she wanted to hold a baby she should make her own, then threw Komillia across the room?

Or Focker letting go of the steering wheel, standing up, and turning around in a jeep full of people to call Hikaru a dumbass?

Or at the end of Space War 1, when Global yelled "Macross attack"? (I can't be the only person that thought that was funny)

The original series was never really intended to be taken too seriously.

The show that changed the tone of the universe was Plus, not 7.

[CoryHolmes]

So you didn't laugh when Exedol burst into song because he didn't know Minmay's name?

One of my least favourite scenes in the whole show.

Or when Millia told Misa that if she wanted to hold a baby she should make her own, then threw Komillia across the room?

Or Focker letting go of the steering wheel, standing up, and turning around in a jeep full of people to call Hikaru a dumbass?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with a bit of humour in the show. There always needs to be something to counter-balance the amount of seriousness and hard-core storytelling. I only take offence at the amount of cheesy munchkinism I see in Macross 7. THAT is something I dislike in the Macross Universe.

The original series was never really intended to be taken too seriously.

I'm afraid that I'll have to disagree with you on that point. I think SDF was to be taken very seriously, with bits of humour for flavour.

The show that changed the tone of the universe was Plus, not 7.

You're probably right on that account, which would explain why I don't like SDF or DYRL nearly as much as I enjoy Plus.

[JB0]

*shrugs*

Just a diffrent take on things, I guess.

I always thought the humor was injected so you'd never take things TOO seriously.

[dedalus001]

And before you get started, yes, I know that Macross 7 is much less than serious and it's supposed to be cheeky... but by doing so, it drags down the rest of the Macross universe with it.

i dont think its right to say that m7 drags the universe down with it. i mean, the macross universe is what it is, and whether you don't like basara singing along and wierd biker gangs and monsters, ( it bugged me but it grew on me too) i think that m7 is a great show. i don't think that m7 isn't "not serious" either. i mean, you have a colorful cast, but people still die in a harsh struggle to survive. its a bit cliche, but its a strong storyline with a bit of an edge from a japanese -western fixation. like when physica dies, you know he will from the beginning, but its still sad. and as far as mecha are concerned. i love the fact that b7 transforms - it does, as people have said, increase its range of fire, and its just awesome. and macross plus, in my opinion, is great with the animation and colorful characters, but it reminds me of top gun too much, and i felt that it tried too hard to please a large audience rather than those who enjoyed wathcing the sdf-1 in a bitter struggle to survive. if anything, the recurring theme in macross is to survive and to look to the future, but all i got from macross plus was a few friends in a fray that happened to save the UN thanks to a clever script. it delivered visually and with the story, but i never felt a true sense of purpose for the characters. maybe its because its an ova, but anyway, thats what i gotta say...

[Sundown]

The way I see it, SDF started as a total parody in the conceptual stages, that ended up turning into something semi-serious and gritty, with humor injected in spots. That never meant that the final product wasn't to be taken seriously. You don't destroy earth as part of your plot line, show kids being vaped by zentradi gun blasts, all to gritty, ominous music, then tell your audience not to take the plot line seriously.

Mac 7's problem is that it does ask the viewer to take it seriously enough to buy the love-and-singing-and-speaker-pods-conquers-all plotline, asks us to take Basara's "enlightened" brattishness seriously enough to see past his jerkishness and empathise with the serious business of fighting the war his own way. Treat him as a deeper character than some kid with a gaudy valk and an attitude. Then shoves pink speaker boobs in our faces the next cut. That's what some folks have issues with.

Saying SDF isn't serious just because it has moments of levity is like saying Full Metal Jacket isn't a serious War Movie because the main character has "Born to Kill" scrawled on his helmet, and jokes about "meeting new cultures... and killing them."

-Al

Edited February 24, 2004 by Sundown