Macross and battletech

Prons · February 18, 2004

I bet this topic has been done ALOT before, but Ive been trying to get into battletech, and I noticed in the Gray death legion book, they have mechs that look... like gluags and the VF-1S.

Then again I could just be spacing out......

Dies Irae · February 18, 2004

Yup. Long legal issue. But yes, those are Glaug Officer Pods and VF-1s.

MSW · February 18, 2004

You will also find a mecha from the anime Crusher Joe...I think the Battletech name is the Locus (small two legged scout type thing)...also from crusher Joe were a couple of the star fighter designs featured on the cover of the air/space combat basied FASA expansion to Battletech back in the 1980's (I'm not into Battletech at all and thus can't recall what this expansion was )

A while ago someone posted a link to a web site with scans of the Japanese design battlemechs...which I think are hand down better looking then the mechwarrior designs seen today

I'll dig around and try to find that link If you want to compare the designs....

Dies Irae · February 18, 2004

You will also find a mecha from the anime Crusher Joe...I think the Battletech name is the Locus (small two legged scout type thing)...also from crusher Joe were a couple of the star fighter designs featured on the cover of the air/space combat basied FASA expansion to Battletech back in the 1980's (I'm not into Battletech at all and thus can't recall what this expansion was )

The name is Locust (Swarmy Annoying Crop Eating Insect), not Locus (Focal Point).

And the expansion you're referring to is Aerotech 1.

A while ago someone posted a link to a web site with scans of the Japanese design battlemechs...which I think are hand down better looking then the mechwarrior designs seen today
I'll dig around and try to find that link If you want to compare the designs....

I didn't like them. IMO, the whole charm of Battletech was the big ugly "Walking Tank" syndrome.

Edited February 18, 2004 by Dies Irae

MSW · February 18, 2004

Thanks for the correction and name of that expansion..

I didn't like them. IMO, the whole charm of Battletech was the big ugly "Walking Tank" syndrome.

I just don't see the big ugly walking tanks others may see when looking at battlemechs...to me they just look embarassing...not just for the pilot, but I gotta also take pity on the raw materials used in thier construction...but thats just my opinion

kensei · February 18, 2004

I bet this topic has been done ALOT before, but Ive been trying to get into battletech, and I noticed in the Gray death legion book, they have mechs that look... like gluags and the VF-1S.
Then again I could just be spacing out......

A lot of the classic designs are exact copies of the Macross Mecha. Tkae the Archer=Spartan, Crusader=Armoured VF-1A, Phoenix Hawk=Super VF-1S or another exact copy the Rifleman=Raidar X. The naga suspiciously look like the Phalanx as well, and don't forget the Warhawk. I could go on and on........

Dies Irae · February 18, 2004

I bet this topic has been done ALOT before, but Ive been trying to get into battletech, and I noticed in the Gray death legion book, they have mechs that look... like gluags and the VF-1S.
Then again I could just be spacing out......

A lot of the classic designs are exact copies of the Macross Mecha. Tkae the Archer=Spartan, Crusader=Armoured VF-1A, Phoenix Hawk=Super VF-1S or another exact copy the Rifleman=Raidar X. The naga suspiciously look like the Phalanx as well, and don't forget the Warhawk. I could go on and on........

Erm... No...

The Defender became the Rifleman, the Tomahawk became the Warhammer, the Spartan became the Archer, the Phalanx became the Longbow, the VF-1S became the Wasp, the VF-1A became the Stinger, the Super VF-1S became the Phoenix Hawk, the Armored VF-1A became the Crusader and the Glaug Officers Pod became the Marauder.

The Regult was the inspiration for the Ostsol, Ostroc and Ostscout, though it's a bit of a stretch.

The Masakari/Warhawk is a unique Battletech design.

Edited February 18, 2004 by Dies Irae

JsARCLIGHT · February 18, 2004

Don't forget that FASA also lifted a good number of designs from Fang of the Sun Dougram for some of their units.

From what I can recall the entire first set of Battletech units (the ones that came in the very first boxed game that came out in the late '80s) were all lifted from anime... I can't remember one unique unit that they created at the time.

Hybridchild · February 18, 2004

Don't forget that FASA also lifted a good number of designs from Fang of the Sun Dougram for some of their units.
From what I can recall the entire first set of Battletech units (the ones that came in the very first boxed game that came out in the late '80s) were all lifted from anime... I can't remember one unique unit that they created at the time.

Bombbadier but i think that was the only one

Hybridchild

kensei · February 18, 2004

I bet this topic has been done ALOT before, but Ive been trying to get into battletech, and I noticed in the Gray death legion book, they have mechs that look... like gluags and the VF-1S.
Then again I could just be spacing out......

A lot of the classic designs are exact copies of the Macross Mecha. Tkae the Archer=Spartan, Crusader=Armoured VF-1A, Phoenix Hawk=Super VF-1S or another exact copy the Rifleman=Raidar X. The naga suspiciously look like the Phalanx as well, and don't forget the Warhawk. I could go on and on........

Erm... No...

The Defender became the Rifleman, the Tomahawk became the Warhammer, the Spartan became the Archer, the Phalanx became the Longbow, the VF-1S became the Wasp, the VF-1A became the Stinger, the Super VF-1S became the Phoenix Hawk, the Armored VF-1A became the Crusader and the Glaug Officers Pod became the Marauder.

The Regult was the inspiration for the Ostsol, Ostroc and Ostscout, though it's a bit of a stretch.

The Masakari/Warhawk is a unique Battletech design.

Yeah, I know. I didn't say that the Macross designs came from the Battletech designs I just stated the equivelent or simular looking designs. Thankyou for the correction on the Defender BTW.

kanata67 · February 18, 2004

The Defender became the Rifleman, the Tomahawk became the Warhammer, the Spartan became the Archer, the Phalanx became the Longbow, the VF-1S became the Wasp, the VF-1A became the Stinger, the Super VF-1S became the Phoenix Hawk, the Armored VF-1A became the Crusader and the Glaug Officers Pod became the Marauder.

The Regult was the inspiration for the Ostsol, Ostroc and Ostscout, though it's a bit of a stretch.

The Masakari/Warhawk is a unique Battletech design.

that sounds about right. I've noticed that they are often refered to as "unseen" on ebay... whatever that means. I need one more friggin crusader to complete my chess set :rolleyes: . I just have trouble spending $20 on a pawn. If anybody's got one they wanna trade... :lol:

wasn't the zues something as well? Dourgam roundfacer or something?

Hybridchild · February 18, 2004

The zeus was original the ones taken from dougram where the Wolverine, Griffin, Shadwohawk, Battlemaster, Scorpion and Goliath

Hybridchild

Dies Irae · February 18, 2004

Unseen:

Whoremoney Guild lawsuit caused Fasa to drop the usage of the artwork, hence the name

Reseen:

FanPro redesigns of the Unseen as seen in TRO: Project Phoenix.

------------------------------------------------------

Original Designs from the early period: TRO 3025 (1st Tech Readouts)

Commando, Javelin, Spider, UrbanMech, Firestarter, Jenner, Panther, Wolfhound, Assassin, Cicada, Clint, Hermes, Vulcan, Whitworth, BlackJack, Hatchetman, Vindicator, Centurion, Enforcer, Hunchback, Trebuchet, Dervish, Dragon, Quickdraw, Catapult, JagerMech, Grasshopper, Orion, Awesome, Charger, Victor, Stalker, Cyclops, Banshee, Atlas

Edited February 18, 2004 by Dies Irae

ZorClone · February 18, 2004

then you go into the clan mechs..

Madcat/Timberwolf, Vulture/Maddog, Loki/Thor, Bushwacker, Shadowcat, Raven, Chimera (kinda new).. umm... what else?

Vostok 7 · February 18, 2004

Clan 'mechs were original, except for the IICs like the Marauder IIC (Gulag), Warhammer IIC (Tomahawk) and Rifleman IIC (can't remember it's Macross name at the moment) which were just Clan updates of standard Inner Sphere 'mechs.

The most famous 'mech lifted from Dougram was the Battlemaster (can't remember it's Dougram name though).

Ahd the Phalanx did make it into Battletech, but not as the Naga... All Clan centric designs were original, IE, Hellbringer (Loki), Timberwolf (Mad Cat), Stone Rhino (Behemoth), Dire Wolf (Daishi), the Naga, etc... The Phalanx became the Longbow (IIRC). Also, the Spartan was used too as the Archer.

Vostok 7

Edited February 18, 2004 by Vostok 7

Syngyne · February 18, 2004

I didn't like them. IMO, the whole charm of Battletech was the big ugly "Walking Tank" syndrome.

The Japanese versions of the Battlemechs I found way overdone for my taste. However, you can still do "Walking Tank" without being too clunky or anime-frilly:

Lifted from http://tekki.jp

Edited February 18, 2004 by Syngyne

ZorClone · February 18, 2004

^ Aren't those from Steel Battalion?

Syngyne · February 18, 2004

Yes, it's a Prominence M1. I just used it as an example of something that looks like a walking tank, but doesn't look fugly or over-adorned with anime-sticking-out-bits silliness.

ewilen · February 18, 2004

This link may help. I think it's the best reference for correlating Macross/Robotech/Battletech names:

http://brianscache.com/unseen/

(Also has the original names of the non-Macross mechs.)

Angel's Fury · February 18, 2004

Thanks for the link ewilen! It makes sense to me now.

treatment · February 18, 2004

The Regult was the inspiration for the Ostsol, Ostroc and Ostscout, though it's a bit of a stretch.

The Caesar mech in BT was the Regult in the Avanti's Angel (Double-Blind) novel, iirc. I think the old sourcebooks had the arms for the Caesar, too. Weird.

Tough time to find a pic of it since my books are all in storage already, but here it is from another site: http://eco.khstu.ru/HomePage/Wildratt/Batt...s/mchcaesar.gif

Edited February 18, 2004 by treatment

Dies Irae · February 18, 2004

I always thought the Ostsol was the Regult.

Cyclone · February 18, 2004

I always found that funny that the Cataphract supposedly served as the basis for the Ceasar, when it looks more like a Regult than the Cataphract.

Or the fact the Cataphract has Galug legs and single Galug arm

Cyc

Vostok 7 · February 19, 2004

Hmm, well considering I believe the Caesar came out before the Cataphract, I'd believe it was the other way around.

Also, the Cataphract is a Draconis (or was it Capellan?) 'mech, where the Caesar was a what, FedCom 'mech?

Also, the Cataphract is cool whereas the Caesar isn't :lol:

And I think neither the Caesar or Cataphract look anything like a Regult :blink:

Vostok 7

Cyclone · February 19, 2004

Hmm, well considering I believe the Caesar came out before the Cataphract, I'd believe it was the other way around.
Also, the Cataphract is a Draconis (or was it Capellan?) 'mech, where the Caesar was a what, FedCom 'mech?

Also, the Cataphract is cool whereas the Caesar isn't

And I think neither the Caesar or Cataphract look anything like a Regult

Vostok 7

Cataphract existed before Fourth Succession War, where the Ceasar didn't appear until TR:3050, which has the "Ceasar was based on a captured Cataphract as a prototype" claim.

Also FedCom captured the Cataphract factory off the Capellans in the Fourth Succession War, so they build both

Cyc

Edited February 19, 2004 by Cyclone

Vostok 7 · February 19, 2004

My battletech knowledge has gotten rusty over the years, but I could have sworn the Cataphract was a 3050+ design and the Caesar was a 3025 or older.

Vostok 7

JsARCLIGHT · February 19, 2004

Bombbadier but i think that was the only one

I don't remember that one from the original game boxes...

Then again I am trying to remember something that I half-heartedly played long long ago in the late '80s at a friend's house when he was "first kid on the block" (if you count an 18 year old as a kid) to get the "new" Battletech boxed board game. I remember seeing the units when he was popping them off the cardboard standee things and I kept telling him all the units were from anime but he did not believe me.

Skull 0ne · February 19, 2004

If I remimber right I read some where that said that fasa did not rip those mechs off they actuly asked the permission of the creator of macross to use those mech designes, but then after he sold the rights over to harmony gold they through a big fit about fasa using there designes. and yes this is what realy happend I used to have the link to the website (I will find it and post it, the page is a lot like the patition page for the issue with harmony gold and not letting us have real valks).

Skull 0ne · February 19, 2004

This is not the orignal one I found but it gives you the idea:

http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/press/press.018.html

JsARCLIGHT · February 19, 2004

This is the original first edition boxed game I've been talking about... and come to think of it the only Battletech game I have ever played:

This is the original box art.

And the original box contents.

I've also been doing some remembering about that first box set and some things that have come back to me...

If I remember right this first boxed edition of the game came out in 1986/87 ish, hot on the heels of Robotech in the US, and having a name like "Battletech" made certain people (like me) think it was somehow related to Robotech. One look at the cover of the box and the playing pieces removed all doubt in my mind that this was either a Robotech product made to cash in on the tabletop wargaming industry (that was just starting to boom) or it was a ripoff of the Robotech "thing" with the same units just named differently. LEGAL MATTERS ASIDE in the late '80s when my friend bought this game both of us knew the units were from Robotech (cum Macross) and I recognised the Crusher Joe unit and the Dougram units as well. Both he and I had assumed that either HG or the original japanese companies had given FASA permission to use the designs and we even were under the impression that the Battletech game was an offshoot or "story brother" to Robotech... after all at this same time the Dougram units had been licensed to Revell and released under the Robotech model line so us two dimwit 18 year olds put "2 and 2" together and thought Battletech was a Robotech product. I even remember seeing Battletech plastic model kit "miniatures" in the comic/gaming stores that were just ports of Macross model kits... the freaking things even came with Hikaru and Minmay sticker sheets! I wish to heaven that I would have bought some of those things just to see what the copywrite lines on the packaging said at this point...

As time passed and we went our sepparate ways I noticed that the Battletech stuff began to in no way resemble the Robotech things.. this started with the computer games and then on to the other games like Battletroops, Aerotech, Battletops and so on and so forth. That was about the time I noticed that the original unit designs went bye bye... this led me to believe one of two things: HG or Bigwest wanted to separate their cash cow from this burgeoning tabletop geek fest or they did not originally sanction those designs. I didn't care one lick about Battletech so I went on my merry way... up until about seven years ago when I returned to the states and got a job working with a bunch of leftover tabletop gamer geeks, jaded by the collectable card gamers. They asked me to come play a round with them and they told me the whole sordid story of Battletech and it's woes.

In the end I am left feeling this way: licensed from the "original creators" or not FASA was simply cashing in on the "trend" at the time of table gaming and battlin' robots and their "licensed" creation got away from them as time marched on. I myself wonder when the HG lawsuit against them was brought as it was settled in '97... ten years after the game went public. I know the courts are slow but My guess is that HG, if they did not in fact license the designs to FASA, simply did not care at first (like with most of the license infringers at that time as Robotech was dead in the market)... only after they saw FASA raking in the cash from eager table gaming fanboys did they finally step up to the plate and sue FASA.

After all, why sue a penniless basement company that is boosting your designs? They would not be able to pay you much for their "infringement" if you swatted them when they were small... but if by some twist their stuff took off you can wait until they get some coin in their pockets and then sue them for a nice voluntary out of court settlement. I'm either making HG out to be the devil (which I am known to do) or I am making FASA out to be a bunch of quick loot artists that got caught in a legal loophole when their invention got big enough to "notice" they had someone else's proprietary designs at their core.

(there, that should piss everyone off)

Edited February 19, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

kanata67 · February 19, 2004

(there, that should piss everyone off)

not me :rolleyes:

Pat Payne · February 19, 2004

Nice writeup JsARCLIGHT, except, IIRC, the original, ORIGINAL version (as in the very first pressing in 1984-85) was called "BattleDroids," but FASA quickly changed the name to avoid getting Lucas' lawyers on their tails over the use of the word "droid."

ewilen · February 19, 2004

You can find a lot of info on this by searching Google and Google groups. The lawsuits date from around 1994/5 and actually began with a suit by FASA against Playmates. IIRC FASA had wanted to make some toys based on Battletech and showed the idea to Playmates; Playmates didn't bite but later made Exosquad, which FASA considered a ripoff of their idea. The incorporation of Robotech toys into Exosquad only occurred later and seems to have been related to HG/Playmates countersuing FASA. Playmates barely avoided losing the suit brought by FASA; the countersuit resulted in a settlement well before it could be brought to judgment.

Edited February 19, 2004 by ewilen

motley · February 19, 2004

I didn't like them. IMO, the whole charm of Battletech was the big ugly "Walking Tank" syndrome.

The Japanese versions of the Battlemechs I found way overdone for my taste. However, you can still do "Walking Tank" without being too clunky or anime-frilly:

Lifted from http://tekki.jp

interesting, that steel battalion mech looks an aweful lot like the Gundam: For the Barrel designs.

Vostok 7 · February 20, 2004

interesting, that steel battalion mech looks an aweful lot like the Gundam: For the Barrel designs.

WTF is THAT THING?!?!

Vostok 7

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