Harmony Gold & Toynami releasing DYRL? Toys

[Effect]

That's one thing about the poseables, the legs and arms fall off to easily. The arm came of the on series 2 poseable I had and the leg came off one of my series 1 poseable. I haven't gotten any of the Alpha poseables yet, but I have a metallic one coming in the mail, I hope that one fairs better.

[ewilen]

But I wonder, why havn't they started with landbased vehicles yet? I mean the bikes and tanks especaly.

Also HG could re-use the molds for the non transformable mechs, they were used in exo-squad awhile back...

HG and/or Toynami was thinking of reissuing the Matchbox/Exo squad destroids, but they later cancelled the plans and claimed the molds had deteriorated to the point that they were unusable. I don't know if they were ever planning on doing the other Matchbox/Exo stuff (Zentradi pods, N-Ger [botoru/Quadrono], hovertank, bioroids, Invid, etc.).

[Mechafan]

That's one thing about the poseables, the legs and arms fall off to easily. The arm came of the on series 2 poseable I had and the leg came off one of my series 1 poseable. I haven't gotten any of the Alpha poseables yet, but I have a metallic one coming in the mail, I hope that one fairs better.

Thanks guys for the heads up. So far none of the series 2 poseables I have have fallen apart. I will be carefull. Effect the Alpha ones were made much better. I have all 9 of them.

Now this brings more light to the table, they are reusing a mold that already has issues. Poor HG any thing for a buck.

[buddhafabio]

[quote name=

Also HG could re-use the molds for the non transformable mechs' date=' they were used in exo-squad awhile back... [/quote]

HG and/or Toynami was thinking of reissuing the Matchbox/Exo squad destroids, but they later cancelled the plans and claimed the molds had deteriorated to the point that they were unusable. I don't know if they were ever planning on doing the other Matchbox/Exo stuff (Zentradi pods, N-Ger [botoru/Quadrono], hovertank, bioroids, Invid, etc.).

that is messed up because the the exo squad rt destroids didnt sell. and i last saw them at the dollar store a few years ago.

[the white drew carey]

LOL - funny how some people reacted to this. You would think their lives depended on what one toy company does. It is interesting to say the least. I don't see how Toynami can make them without some sort of agreement. Toynami did get permission to use the superposeable design in the first place so it's not like they always steal designs.

Could you point out your source on this?

At first I had heard that Toynami had compensated the creator of the Wonderfest kit for using the design as their SuperPoseables. But then someone told me that he wasn't compensated, and wasn't asked, although they did officially credit him in some way.

I'm just curious what the actual story is behind this.

I know for a fact that Toynami didn't have Banpresto's permission when using the Banpresto SD Keychain designs, nor did they have Bandai's permission in using their designs for the MPC (as much as people say it isn't a copy, it is. just deal with it.)

So I'm curious what the actual story is between the Wonderfest kits and the SuperPoseables*?

*which do suck, by the way. i would've complained about a toy that poorly made even when I was a kid^!!!

^assuming I'm not one anymore.

[bsu legato]

At first I had heard that Toynami had compensated the creator of the Wonderfest kit for using the design as their SuperPoseables. But then someone told me that he wasn't compensated, and wasn't asked, although they did officially credit him in some way.

As I recall, there was a "sculpted by" credit that appeared on the Comicon exclusive VF-1D toy. Now, whether it was for the original sculpt or Toynami's copycat, I cannot say for certain.

[wrylac]

They also have this listed on the RT.com store:

Macross Visor

Now... I'm not sure how this classifies... it does not say Robotech, nor SDF-1 (which by HG license can still be RT)... but just "Macross"  and the description says "UN Spacy" logo.. not RT logo... Isn't this item is also questionable?

No, Harmony Gold does indeed hold the rights outside of Japan to the original SDF Macross. They can't create a new series using the characters, but they can develop merchandise based upon the series.

I go away for a day and look what happens.

Just a slight but important correction to this post. The rulings stated that HG couldn't use the original designs to create a new animation, nothing was said about using the characters.

It is important to keep in mind what this actually means. HG can make and distribute toys for DYRL? for the international market. The other shows are still in question as well as video distribution for DYRL? as was brought out by Animeigo. This also means that when BW sold Yamato international distribution rights, Yamato got the shaft from BW as evidenced by Graham's earlier comments that Yamato no longer believes they have international distribution rights. Now if Yamato would only work their deal to include HG we can get some Yamato Valks internationally, but that's not likely as BW would likely attmept to remove the domestic license from them. BW is really making Yamato decide, do they have a better domestic or international market? Of course, BW could back off of Yamato and honor thier deal, but they've proven that they won't.

[Agent ONE]

We all need to realize that its only a matter of time and we will have US releases of most all Macross products... HG will get broke and realize they need to cut into their margins to play.

If there is Money to be made they will all get off their high horses and write another agreement if it is necessary.

Remember both BW and HG have something in common... They both have failed at everything that didn't involve Macross.

[Commander McBride]

Something occurred to me, reading this thread. Maybe it might not be a bad thing after all. Maybe it's something like this:

BW grants HG a license for DYRL, and possibly other works. But, in return, HG will cease their attempts to prevent BW merchandise and animation from entering foreign markets, and will allow HG Macross products to be officially imported, unmolested, into those markets.

[the white drew carey]

It is important to keep in mind what this actually means. HG can make and distribute toys for DYRL? for the international market. The other shows are still in question as well as video distribution for DYRL? as was brought out by Animeigo. This also means that when BW sold Yamato international distribution rights, Yamato got the shaft from BW as evidenced by Graham's earlier comments that Yamato no longer believes they have international distribution rights. Now if Yamato would only work their deal to include HG we can get some Yamato Valks internationally, but that's not likely as BW would likely attmept to remove the domestic license from them. BW is really making Yamato decide, do they have a better domestic or international market? Of course, BW could back off of Yamato and honor thier deal, but they've proven that they won't.

Speculation on your part.

Admit it.

[the white drew carey]

Something occurred to me, reading this thread. Maybe it might not be a bad thing after all. Maybe it's something like this:

BW grants HG a license for DYRL, and possibly other works. But, in return, HG will cease their attempts to prevent BW merchandise and animation from entering foreign markets, and will allow HG Macross products to be officially imported, unmolested, into those markets.

Doubtful.

Why I think so: Because even if BigWest came to an agreement with HG, I think that they would still insist on official credit. Just like everything RT has both Tatsunoko Productions and Harmony Gold credited, so would BigWest inist on having their name in there somewhere.

Now if the announcement mentioned Bigwest at all, I'd be more open to that possibility. But as it stands, I don't think so.

[ewilen]

Just a slight but important correction to this post.  The rulings stated that HG couldn't use the original designs to create a new animation, nothing was said about using the characters.

Incorrect. The ruling of February 25, 2002 does not state that. In fact, it expressly refuses to provide an injunction against HG using the designs in a new animation. The rationale given by the court is that it does not see a possibility of Tatsunoko making a new anime based on the designs, or causing a third party (i.e., HG) to do so. It appears that the court is applying a principle whereby you don't issue an injunction against activity that hasn't been threatened.

Oh, and the line art ruling does cover the images of the characters. If the issue is the personalities and story, that's a slightly different subject.

It is important to keep in mind what this actually means.  HG can make and distribute toys for DYRL? for the international market.

The court ruling explicitly affirms Big West/Studio Nue's ownership of copyright on all the designs. In no way does it assign or affirm the right of TP or HG to make and distribute Macross toys internationally. Only through the memorandum contract with Big West did TP obtain the right to make and distribute merchandise for SDF Macross internationally. There's no evidence at all that TP obtained the right to sell DYRL toys either through the court cases, or through the memorandum contract.

Harmony Gold may now have some DYRL merchandising rights, but if they do, it's either because a settlement has been reached or because the memorandum gave away more than we've supposed up to this point. (Actually, if there hasn't been a settlement, I'm guessing the memorandum was written sloppily and HG is trying to press the language as far as possible.)

The other shows are still in question as well as video distribution for DYRL? as was brought out by Animeigo.  This also means that when BW sold Yamato international distribution rights, Yamato got the shaft from BW as evidenced by Graham's earlier comments that Yamato no longer believes they have international distribution rights.

This is highly speculative. Awaiting comment from Graham. Again, it is possible that he misspoke. It's also possible that Yamato's stance has changed in the wake of a settlement--to which they would very likely be a party, incidentally.

Now if Yamato would only work their deal to include HG we can get some Yamato Valks internationally, but that's not likely as BW would likely attmept to remove the domestic license from them.  BW is really making Yamato decide, do they have a better domestic or international market?  Of course, BW could back off of Yamato and honor thier deal, but they've proven that they won't.

This is even worse than speculative. How do you know what BW would "likely" attempt to do? And why would they do it?

Edit: many edits. (AgentONE--TOUGH! )

Edited February 12, 2004 by ewilen

[bob joe mac]

Man I check back in a day, read through 9 more pages of stuff and no new info has been found. *Twidles thumbs waiting for something to happen like BW bomb HG*

Totally off topic but I just noticed that many of us joined the same day on these new forums 21-August 03. Must be those boring summer days where we had nothing better to do then check up on macross world every 10 minutes to see when the new boards were up.

Edited February 12, 2004 by bob joe mac

[drifand]

Yawn...

[Mechafan]

Remember both BW and HG have something in common... They both have failed at everything that didn't involve Macross.

Hopefully we will have an answer soon to this rift in our peace. I say HG focus on the over due Mospeada stuff you promised.

[JB0]

They also have this listed on the RT.com store:

Macross Visor

Now... I'm not sure how this classifies... it does not say Robotech, nor SDF-1 (which by HG license can still be RT)... but just "Macross"  and the description says "UN Spacy" logo.. not RT logo... Isn't this item is also questionable?

No, Harmony Gold does indeed hold the rights outside of Japan to the original SDF Macross. They can't create a new series using the characters, but they can develop merchandise based upon the series.

I go away for a day and look what happens.

Just a slight but important correction to this post. The rulings stated that HG couldn't use the original designs to create a new animation, nothing was said about using the characters.

Correct in the sense that they couldn't use the designs. Don't recall it being court-mandated.

Robotech 2: The Sentinels included original characters, but massively redesigned. The designs were off-limits, but not the characters(which arguably weren't Big West/Studio Nue's characters anyways, after renaming and personality tweaks).

And Sentinels was before all the legal fuss started.

It is important to keep in mind what this actually means.  HG can make and distribute toys for DYRL? for the international market. 

Correction: It means Harmony Gold thinks they can.

A very important diffrence there.

Toynami has been caught bootlegging merchandise before. Merchandise that carries HG's stamp of approval.

One can assume HG either A: is totally ignorant of Japanese Macross merchandise, or B: has no resepct for copyright law.

And if the contracts between Big West and Tatsunoko and between Tatusnoko and HG are as vague as some claim, it is possible that HG believes they have DYRL rights but does not, in fact, actually have them.

The other shows are still in question as well as video distribution for DYRL? as was brought out by Animeigo. 

2 shows are very clearly not in question. Macross 2 and Macross Plus.

This casts doubts upon their merchandise rights to these 2 serieses as well.

DYRL's problem is that multipe companies claim to hold rights.

If HG's license was as clear as they claim it is, I believe they would release DYRL, and if the other companies challenged, present their license either in private or in court. In fact, I believe they would have presented it when DYRL was originally released State-side during Robotech's original run. An offense they ignored not once, but MULTIPLE TIMES.

This also means that when BW sold Yamato international distribution rights, Yamato got the shaft from BW as evidenced by Graham's earlier comments that Yamato no longer believes they have international distribution rights. 

Or they feel it is not economically feasable to pursue these rights.

Because some companies have a tendancy to litigate at the drop of a hat, and are quite capable of burying smaller companies under so many legal fees that they go bankrupt, REGARDLESS of the actual merit behind the lawsuits.

In point of fact, it's considered business as usual for many larger corporations.

Now if Yamato would only work their deal to include HG we can get some Yamato Valks internationally, but that's not likely as BW would likely attmept to remove the domestic license from them.  BW is really making Yamato decide, do they have a better domestic or international market?  Of course, BW could back off of Yamato and honor thier deal, but they've proven that they won't.

There is no evidence that Big West is not honoring any deals they have made.

And given the "unclear legal situation," Big West would be COMPLETE AND UTTER FOOLS to do anything that would make it appear as if Harmony Gold, and by extension Tatsunoko Productions, had a legitimate claim to the entire Macross franchise. This would include Yamato getting a license from Harmony Gold for US distribution of products other than the original Macross TV series.

The evidence I have seen so far indicates the following:

Harmony Gold has rights to the original SDF Macross TV series. These include merchandising rights. These are not exclusive, as Tatsunoko has released original Macross products in regions other than the USA.

Tatsunoko has never made any attempt to exploit anythign other than the original series either internationally or within Japan.

That is the extent of undebatable fact regarding licensing.

Harmony Gold has recently decided to either A: believe that it has rights to the entire Macross franchise, or B: start enforcing a believed license that they refused to defend when they originally acquired it.

Big West believes that Tatsunoko Productions, whom licensed Macross to Harmony Gold, only had rights to the original TV series, and no rights to derivatives. By extension, this means that Big West believes Harmony Gold only has rights to the original TV series, and has recently engaged in legal action against Tatsunoko Productions towards confirming that belief in a court of law.

This series of legal actions began shortly after Harmony Gold began interfering with Big West's believed exclusive rights to all Macross products other than the original TV series.

Japanese courts have created rulings that fans can translate multiple ways and construe to support either side's argument.

Have I missed anything?

Edited February 12, 2004 by JB0

[EXO]

oh no... the quote wars begin... i'm out!

[Southcross]

wow no posts in 20 mins

If it was discovered that Hamrony Gold aquired the rights to DYRL? from whatever backwards company that currently owns them, and Harmony Gold released a R1 DVD of the movie, would you buy it?

I'd buy it and I would feel bad about supporting the swine! I'd enjoy the movie and my subconscious would drive me mad about supporting the swine.... I would stick MFA stickers over the HG logo on said DVD box to distract my conscous of the fact that it came form HG. In any case I would still enjoy the DVD.

[Southcross]

That's one thing about the poseables, the legs and arms fall off to easily. The arm came of the on series 2 poseable I had and the leg came off one of my series 1 poseable. I haven't gotten any of the Alpha poseables yet, but I have a metallic one coming in the mail, I hope that one fairs better.

I have a superposable... I can't state on its "longevity", but on display it looks nice. I especially like the "battle damaged" Last Stand VF-1S Roy Fokker. As much as I would like to play the hell out of my "toys" I consider them display only.

[Druna Skass]

**sigh**

Here we go again. You know what, let save you guys the trouble and just compress what will likely happen for the next 5 pages into one nice post.

Next wrylac will bring out that one report he like to cite so much and say Yamato should make a deal with hg, and everyone else says how stupid that will be for Big West to allow that because it would be saying the hg really does own more than what Big West says. Then wrylac will say something to the extent that the fact toynami is makeing DYRL toys shows that hg has the rights to that, and everyone else will say they're just pushing the line to see ho far they can go. All the while with nothing new comming out of Japan (meaning repeats of past arguments), toynami still ripping people off and me having to pay for the damn shipping chrages and having to sit here a wait when ever I want a VF that isn't crap.

[Druna Skass]

Why I think so: Because even if BigWest came to an agreement with HG, I think that they would still insist on official credit. Just like everything RT has both Tatsunoko Productions and Harmony Gold credited, so would BigWest inist on having their name in there somewhere.

Why is it so hard for hg to give credit to where credit is due, mainly to Big West for Macross.

[Southcross]

you ever check out the other items on HGs Website Catalog

HG Catalog

other than the anime... its basically all crap! I see a few things I remember, most of this stuff looks like the "straight to video" crap you find at Blockbuster. I'd love to see HG, a hack of a company, be bought out by a company like Bandai

do you hear a "blowing sound" oh wait... its HG

[Anubis]

I step away for a few hours and the quote wars begin. Justr read the pinned thread before you post "new" legal quotes in this one guys. I'm out for now.

[the white drew carey]

Why I think so: Because even if BigWest came to an agreement with HG, I think that they would still insist on official credit. Just like everything RT has both Tatsunoko Productions and Harmony Gold credited, so would BigWest inist on having their name in there somewhere.

Why is it so hard for hg to give credit to where credit is due, mainly to Big West for Macross.

Beats me. They'll say it in words, but never in writing.

[Nightbat]

I'll see what happens, when it happens, if it happens

without written word from any other party (that means anyone but us! )

we might as well figure out the meaning of life here (the mystery of the universe is already solved,..it's 42)

[ewilen]

All right, I will try to refrain from posting more legal crap here. Some time back, somebody suggested that discussion should be moved to the legal thread and they were right.

[gerwalk25]

you ever check out the other items on HGs Website Catalog

HG Catalog

other than the anime... its basically all crap! I see a few things I remember, most of this stuff looks like the "straight to video" crap you find at Blockbuster. I'd love to see HG, a hack of a company, be bought out by a company like Bandai

do you hear a "blowing sound" oh wait... its HG

And to think they started out distributing badly dubbed Kung-Fu flicks. I watched them in my teens on Saturday late night TV where HG's logo was slapped on right before the flick. I can't believe I remember that, I was stoned or drunk for most of my teen years.

~G25

[Keith]

Have you guys noticed how on ADV's other licensing announcements, they give a full list of the companies involved, etc? Absolutely nothing on this new toy announcement. They don't own jack!

[azrael]

Holy crap...when did this thing become 16 pages.....And shouldn't we bring this to the debate thread?

[Gaijin]

As sad as it may seem...this is the only 20th Anniversary DYRL Product I've heard of. Here or Japan. I'm sure the DVD will be re-released in Japan, but there have been rumors of it appearing here someday..wonder if all the red tape has been cutthrough and we'll see a US release.

[Solscud007]

Jsut walked in to the topic. Honestly were you expecting much from this company?

[Southcross]

Holy crap...when did this thing become 16 pages.....And shouldn't we bring this to the debate thread?

Ok.... gonna open my mouth again.. this of course is my opinion....

If I were a moderator of this board... I would Pin this thread (like all high volume threads of a singular topic and importance) so

1. the conversation will be kept (as much as posssible) to this one thread... visible for all to read and enjoy

2. once it has been murdered over and over and there hasn't been a post on it for maybe a week (usualy a new topic of interest will come up)... unpin it and let it drop off.

3. pin the new "topic of high volume interest"

But I'm not a moderator... que sera

[Hybridchild]

you ever check out the other items on HGs Website Catalog

HG Catalog

other than the anime... its basically all crap! I see a few things I remember, most of this stuff looks like the "straight to video" crap you find at Blockbuster. I'd love to see HG, a hack of a company, be bought out by a company like Bandai

do you hear a "blowing sound" oh wait... its HG

I was looking around that site and i found this

"One of Harmony Gold's flagship titles is Robotech, the Japanese anime franchise that includes a groundbreaking TV series originated in 1985; two feature films, novels, comic books and toy"

What exactly are the 'two feature films'? I hope they dont cound DYRL? as one of them

Hybridchild

[buddhafabio]

nope they were refering to robotech the movie was only released in the dallas fort worth area.

and robotech II the sentinals

[pfunk]

Holy crap...when did this thing become 16 pages.....And shouldn't we bring this to the debate thread?

Ok.... gonna open my mouth again.. this of course is my opinion....

If I were a moderator of this board... I would Pin this thread (like all high volume threads of a singular topic and importance) so

1. the conversation will be kept (as much as posssible) to this one thread... visible for all to read and enjoy

2. once it has been murdered over and over and there hasn't been a post on it for maybe a week (usualy a new topic of interest will come up)... unpin it and let it drop off.

3. pin the new "topic of high volume interest"

But I'm not a moderator... que sera

If anything, they should merge it with the allready pinned topics