Harmony Gold & Toynami releasing DYRL? Toys

[Knight26]

Is it just me or does that strike cannon look way too much like the one off the 15th anniversary figures? Man I hope BW jumps in both feet first on this one, this is the kind of thing that can shut HG down, breaking international copyright law can get you in some serious $h!#. Then again I almost, almost, hope that BW and HG came to an agreement and with HG just taking a little off the top we will get real macross merchandise here in the states, like DVDs, toys, models, etc... If HG was smart and such an offer was laid out they would be stupid not to take it. I would have no problem with that really, unless they had the idiots who did the voices for robogarbage do the dubs on any region 1 DVDs, *shiver* makes me glad I always watch the sub.

[UN Spacy]

Anyone notice the drawn pic of the Elint seeker in Battroid mode behind them? Wtf is goin on here?

EXACTLY!?!?!? Isn't this going a bit toooooooooo far?

Geez. Let's hope Toynami only makes the super posables, I'd hate to see what their "designers" ( ) come up with for their MASTERPIECE line. [/shudders]

[azrael]

Hmm everyone does know that Carl Macek doesn't work for Harmony Gold anymore right? I've noticed a few post blaming him or insulting him. Let the blame goes where it derseves to go instead of blaming a man that hasn't worked for HG in years. He has nothing do with has happen in recent years. I'm just saying don't blame the wrong person. Its the owners of HG themselves that should be the target.

Unfortunately, Macek will always be the target of hatred since he was the one in charge of RT at that time.

[JsARCLIGHT]

This thread is still going on? Geeze.

Shock is shock but from the twenty pages of posts on this issue I think several MW members have deep-seeded HG PTSD issues.

[bsu legato]

Yes, and I'm sure several of us here noticed that a long time ago. Toynami's been known to read these boards, so you've just done them a tremendous favor. I can see Toynami's future ads for this one:

Toynami: "We did so much research into bringing you DYRL accuracy, that the arm armor is even different! Bet you guys didn't know that!"

Robotechies: "Oooooooh!"

Don't give them too much credit. Remember, this is the company that added an led to the head of the MPC. This is the same company that didn't care about the unique shoulder of the Dark Legioss (at least, in its superposeable incarnation). So what if the DYRL valk have different forearm armor? Toynami'd just pass it off by saying...

"We didn't think it was a big enough deal to change the moulds"

or...

"We liked the way it looks with the TV armor better."

or most likely...

"We never noticed the difference. Buy more toys."

[MSW]

Just a note on the legality of the HG/Toynami DYRL licenseing question...

It's entirely possable for HG to hold a license granting them the rights to produce toys from DYRL without actually holding the license for the film ... this sort of thing happens all the time...and in fact Robotech likely never would have existed if Revell didn't hold a license for Macross kits while HG held the license for the animation...licenses for merchandiseing (toys) are often seperate then licenses for media (animation)

Supposedly the license for American distribuation of the DYRL film is tied up in legal limbo without anyone knowing exactly who holds it...However HG could have picked up a license from BW themselves to distribute and/or produce toys from the show without ever haveing a license for the animation itself.

Put it this way yamato has a license to produce Macross toys...but yamato doesn't have a license to distribute Macross films...

Just trying to clear that up as legaly a license to distribute films and one to produce and/or distribute toys are often two seperate things

[bsu legato]

However HG could have picked up a license from BW themselves to distribute and/or produce toys from the show without ever haveing a license for the animation itself.

Yeah, I can really see that happening.

Besides the fact that to do so would go against HG's beliefs that they already own any and all international rights to Macross, Harmony Gold and Big West don't exaclty want to work together. They're like the Hatfields and McCoys of international business.

Edited February 15, 2004 by bsu legato

[EXO]

Maw... grab me the shotgun, them Toynami upstarts got sumthin' brewin... and I ain't talkin moonshine cuz it smells like crap!

Edited February 15, 2004 by >EXO<

[JB0]

Is it just me or does that strike cannon look way too much like the one off the 15th anniversary figures? Man I hope BW jumps in both feet first on this one, this is the kind of thing that can shut HG down, breaking international copyright law can get you in some serious $h!#. Then again I almost, almost, hope that BW and HG came to an agreement and with HG just taking a little off the top we will get real macross merchandise here in the states, like DVDs, toys, models, etc...

NO TRUCE! NUKE! NUKE! NUKE!

[gerwalk25]

If the DYRL Super Posables actually get released, could they be paving the way for DYRL MPCs in the near future?

Toynami MPC VF-1S Hikaru Strike Valk anybody?..............something to think about.

Graham

If we do, expect Yune fugly artwork on the box .

~G25

Edited February 15, 2004 by gerwalk25

[ewilen]

I got an answer from Tom Bateman over on RT.com. I originally posted

the Japanese rulings didn't have much at all to do with DYRL, although they did establish that the copyright to the original Macross artwork belongs to Big West and Studio Nue, not Tatsunoko. And since the DYRL designs derive from the original artwork (not from Super Dimensional Fortress Macross), with alterations and new elements created by Studio Nue, it's hard to see how Tatsunoko or Harmony Gold could have any right to those designs. Unless something new has happened in the legal/rights arena.

Tom, are you able to comment on how/why Harmony Gold is releasing DYRL merchandise for the first time ever?

Tom replied

Without going into more detail, I can assure you that these Macross: Do You Remember Love? Super Poseable figures are legitimately licensed for release. Series 1 is coming soon and there will definitely be more toys coming after this first batch.

Tom Bateman

ROBOTECH.COM

Not much there, but it at least gives us some of HG's perspective. We can take "legitimately licensed" to mean either that HG is relying on their existing license from TP, or that there has indeed been a deal with BW. (I very much doubt that the US merchandising license was part of the DYRL/CotB video distribution license, so the idea that HG tracked the latter down doesn't appear likely.) If HG is relying on the TP license, it must reflect an expansive interpretation of vague language. Otherwise, I doubt that BW would have represented the same license to Yamato/Toycom as definitely not including DYRL.

I followed up with

Thanks, Tom. I appreciate the answer. Hopefully we'll see some more information at some point, because as you can see, the announcement of these toys has brought about a great deal of anticipation and speculation.

[azrael]

Somehow, I get the strong feeling that this is just a merchandising issue and not a video issue. But who evers listens to me....

They may have somehow got a license to market toys. Because those things are labelled as "MACROSS: Do You Remember Love?". It is possible.

But who knows....

[MSW]

QUOTE (MSW @ Feb 14 2004, 07:09 PM)

However HG could have picked up a license from BW themselves to distribute and/or produce toys from the show without ever haveing a license for the animation itself. 

Yeah, I can really see that happening.

*cough* Sure it seems that it is unlikely now ... however, DYRL came out in 1984 which was before the Robotech premire ... well before the current popularity of anime in America...It is entirely possable that HG scooped up a DYRL merchandiseing license from BW back then as well as scooping up dozens of other Macross related licenses over the years...

You may remember that a few of the little transformable Bandai tooled 1/100 scale DYRL Valky model kits that were released here under the Robotech label...

[Nightbat]

maybe they bought the license that belongs(/ed ?) to Arii for making posable DYRL? Valkyrie actionfigures

"I am the great Cornholio I need TP for my HGhole!"

(sorry couldn't resist)

[EXO]

If we do, expect Yune fugly artwork on the box .

I have nothing against Yune's art. He's one of the better anime style Americans out there when it comes characters. Toynami's lucky they didn't get Ben Dunn or Adam Warren.

[Nightbat]

He's one of the better anime style Americans out there

Now there's an oxymoron

Yune's art is very good, but calling it anime is an insult

now maybe I'm judging too quickly, from just a few RT comic-covers posted here and the MPC-boxes

but it's US comic book style, no doubt about that

[EXO]

He's one of the better anime style Americans out there

Now there's an oxymoron

Yune's art is very good, but calling it anime is an insult

now maybe I'm judging too quickly, from just a few RT comic-covers posted here and the MPC-boxes

but it's US comic book style, no doubt about that

anime style? Should it have a hyphen? anime-style?

I'm aware that he's not a true manga artist in the faithful sense of the word.

[Nightbat]

I'm aware that he's not a true manga artist in the faithful sense of the word.

Think of it like Gouda cheese: If it isn't from Gouda, it can't be Gouda cheese

Tommy Yune's Macross characters ain't from Gouda

[EXO]

I'm aware that he's not a true manga artist in the faithful sense of the word.

Think of it like Gouda cheese: If it isn't from Gouda, it can't be Gouda cheese

Tommy Yune's Macross characters ain't from Gouda

I guess you can say it's far from Gouda!

[MSW]

Think of it like Gouda cheese: If it isn't from Gouda, it can't be Gouda cheese

Japanese animation comes from Japan (Okay so a lot of the work is actualy done in Korea, but anyway)

and the term anime is a shortend form of animation...In Japan even the works of Disney is considered anime, while Japanese animation is often called manga...But in america anime is used to describe Japanese animation (and some Korean, and asian animation in general)...so to get to the true root of the issue of the often missuse/missapplication acusations of the term anime, then we should consider it's origin.

If thats the case then anime can only come from France

[Southcross]

Think of it like Gouda cheese: If it isn't from Gouda, it can't be Gouda cheese

Japanese animation comes from Japan (Okay so a lot of the work is actualy done in Korea, but anyway)

and the term anime is a shortend form of animation...In Japan even the works of Disney is considered anime, while Japanese animation is often called manga...But in america anime is used to describe Japanese animation (and some Korean, and asian animation in general)...so to get to the true root of the issue of the often missuse/missapplication acusations of the term anime, then we should consider it's origin.

If thats the case then anime can only come from France

Thanks for bringing up what I try to avoid saying

... that Anime (contrary to public belief) does not always come "physically" from Japan...

dont' bother flaming me! I'm not the one who said it

:points finger: him! him! him! him! he said it!!!!! he said it!!!

:runs and hides:

[EXO]

This is what I get for saying I don't mind Yune's art.

Wonderful Days is a fine anime created in Korea.

Manga is japanese for comics. Therefore Yune is a manga artist?

That brings back the whole notion that die-cast doesn't have to be metal...

For us english speaking people, anime is what we call japanese cartoons because it's no longer correct to say japanimation . When the rules change again maybe I'll come back and edit my posts on this thread.

Now can we get back to the whole "screw you HG/Toynami" thing?

EDIT: Damn I went smilie crazy there...

Edited February 15, 2004 by >EXO<

[MSW]

This is what I get for saying I don't mind Yune's art.

Naw, this is what happens when people try to define the complex in simplistic "cut and dry" terms...

Some time ago, I was buying the Aeon Flux DVD when a couple of other customers stopped me saying that Aeon Flux didn't belong in the anime section as it wasn't really anime ... "It's an american made anime rip off!" they had said ... Of course these guys were there to buy a copy of the then recently released Red Hawk anime

It just isn't that simple...Even the most base and simplistic use of the terms anime and manga covers a LOT of grey area.

[Vampire Hunter D]

this is indeed bad news...i hope BW acts fast!

[EXO]

This is what I get for saying I don't mind Yune's art.

Naw, this is what happens when people try to define the complex in simplistic "cut and dry" terms...

Some time ago, I was buying the Aeon Flux DVD when a couple of other customers stopped me saying that Aeon Flux didn't belong in the anime section as it wasn't really anime ... "It's an american made anime rip off!" they had said ... Of course these guys were there to buy a copy of the then recently released Red Hawk anime

It just isn't that simple...Even the most base and simplistic use of the terms anime and manga covers a LOT of grey area.

Anime is also a resin exuded from tropical trees, but you knew we weren't talking about that right?

[bsu legato]

Tom replied

Without going into more detail, I can assure you that these Macross: Do You Remember Love? Super Poseable figures are legitimately licensed for release. Series 1 is coming soon and there will definitely be more toys coming after this first batch.

I'd just like to point out that this statement in itself really doesn't mean anything, given HG's track record. They've maintained all along that All Your Macross Are Belong to Them, so these DYRL toys may be no different. Heck, by their logic they could produce Macross Zero toys next week, and they would be "properly licensed" because HG already owned the Macross license. Or so they'd have us believe, anyhow.

[Nightbat]

The problem ofcourse is, that HG can't block DYRL? valks from distribution in the US

since they don't fall under the TV-series

Now I HG can claim they have been trying to release DYRL merchandise long before, this might

give them some power in a court if a distributor were ever to come along

HG can simply state they were already trying to establish distribution

and by legal ways try to force BW to appoint them as "official distributor"

Just guesswork though

[KingNor]

animation is animation no matter where it comes from, some is good some is bad.

really all i care about in this thread is getting original macross on DVD for cheap.

[Southcross]

animation is animation no matter where it comes from, some is good some is bad.

really all i care about in this thread is getting original macross on DVD for cheap.

Woohoo!!!! :Wild Applause:

not just the Original Macross... but all Macross

[Coota0]

Amen!

[ALLAN]

[Max Jenius]

This is what I get for saying I don't mind Yune's art.

Naw, this is what happens when people try to define the complex in simplistic "cut and dry" terms...

Some time ago, I was buying the Aeon Flux DVD when a couple of other customers stopped me saying that Aeon Flux didn't belong in the anime section as it wasn't really anime ... "It's an american made anime rip off!" they had said ... Of course these guys were there to buy a copy of the then recently released Red Hawk anime

It just isn't that simple...Even the most base and simplistic use of the terms anime and manga covers a LOT of grey area.

Anime is also a resin exuded from tropical trees, but you knew we weren't talking about that right?

Yeah really...

We all know the context...

Oh yeah, enough semantics... back on topic...

[Blaine23]

I don't know if I trust what Tom Bateman is saying... his talk reminds me just a bit of Joe Isuzu.

Without going into more detail, I can assure you that these Macross: Do You Remember Love? Super Poseable figures are legitimately licensed for release. Series 1 is coming soon and there will definitely be more toys coming after this first batch.

Tom Bateman

ROBOTECH.COM

(He's lying.)

[Mechamaniac]

Still no reponse from Graham on this???

[ewilen]

Tom replied

Without going into more detail, I can assure you that these Macross: Do You Remember Love? Super Poseable figures are legitimately licensed for release. Series 1 is coming soon and there will definitely be more toys coming after this first batch.

I'd just like to point out that this statement in itself really doesn't mean anything, given HG's track record. They've maintained all along that All Your Macross Are Belong to Them, so these DYRL toys may be no different. Heck, by their logic they could produce Macross Zero toys next week, and they would be "properly licensed" because HG already owned the Macross license. Or so they'd have us believe, anyhow.

Yup, that's basically what I said after the quote. Except that as far as I know, HG has never made clear exactly what their claim is on Macross as a whole. It's important to distinguish two different kinds of rights to Macross. Until now, HG has only attempted to use their claimed exclusive right to create and distribute derivatives. On that basis, they've made a bunch of stuff using the original TV show, and they've blocked others from making Macross stuff for the U.S. market. But until now, HG has never done anything to suggest that they have they have the right to use any Macross derivatives created by others, aside from the original TV show--which we know they paid for.

So, again, either HG has obtained permission from BW, or HG has just made a big leap in terms of what they're claiming to own on the basis of the 1982 BW/TP memorandum.

An interesting comment comes from Nightbat, who offers another possibility:

maybe they bought the license that belongs(/ed ?) to Arii for making posable DYRL? Valkyrie actionfigures[/code]

Assuming BW didn't put any special conditions on ARII's license (such as restricting distribution to Japan), this might be a way for HG to indirectly obtain a license without BW's cooperation. By taking this path, HG would be able to maintain their exclusivity claim, although they would be admitting that they don't own DYRL by virtue of the BW/TP memo. Then by releasing these superposables, I'm guessing they might be able to expand their U.S. trademark claims. I haven't any idea how valid their trademark tactics have been, but they could provide yet another obstacle for BW to overcome.

Edited February 16, 2004 by ewilen