Star Wars OT on DVD - Official - Sept 21st

[LePoseur]

I was glad they are replacing Jabba in that messed up scene from the first one, until I saw a picture of the new version. Yikes... is that the best they could do? I think I prefer the first try.

Hey, here's an idea, why not cut the whole damn thing out (especially since Han repeats almost verbatim exactly what he just told Greedo a second before the scene) and call it a cut scene?

[Chuey]

At this point....why not just re-shoot the movies from scratch? Sheesh!

i have to agree. All these changes seem ridiculous. As I mentioned earlier, Lucas seems totally bent on modifying things probably others wanted in the film (ie these people did not necessarily agree with him).

[Skull 001]

I think it's great what he has done. Whether you like it or not it is his vision of what the films should be. He is really showing how much he really cares about these films that pissing people off doesn't bother him as long as what he wants to see is in the films is completed. I mean he could have just put out a bad quality DVD set just a copy of the LD a long time ago just to cash in and he didn't because in his eyes it is not complete and as I said whether you like it or not he should be commended for sticking to his guns and truely making the films the way he wants them. How many other film makers have shown this much commitment to their films.

[Blaine23]

I think it's great what he has done.  Whether you like it or not it is his vision of what the films should be.  He is really showing how much he really cares about these films that pissing people off doesn't bother him as long as what he wants to see is in the films is completed.  I mean he could have just put out a bad quality DVD set just a copy of the LD a long time ago just to cash in and he didn't because in his eyes it is not complete and as I said whether you like it or not he should be commended for sticking to his guns and truely making the films the way he wants them.  How many other film makers have shown this much commitment to their films.

Spare me.

This isn't about Lucas' vision, it's about making old movies look new and getting people to pay for it over and over again. If Lucas had such a vision that literally couldn't have been made in 1977, then he should have NOT made the movie rather than continue with all this crap.

And for your answer a ton of other filmmakers have shown a great deal more guts than Lucas. It's quite a bit tougher to tell your studio you're not cutting a scene from your movie even though it was given the dreaded NC-17 by the MPAA. You think anyone other than Lucas has any decision making power? No way.

If he wants to continue playing Photoshop, that's cool. That's totally his right. But he would be commended by me if he actually respected the audience that gave money to make him as wealthy as he is and let the sizeable number of us who want the original films have the films the way they were presented to us theatrically.

This is my opinion, not fact.

Edited July 30, 2004 by Blaine23

[CoryHolmes]

Actually, the "sizable number" as you put it, really couldn't care less about the changes he's making.

It's only the hardcore fanboys that are really perturbed by it, and it only seems like everyone cares because we're all hardcore fanboys on this (and other) message boards.

Remember, Lucas isn't making these films for those who live and breathe by the tenants of the first trilogy. He's using his money to do what he wants to HIS product.

I for one am really, really tired of all the whining about how he's ruining a good show. Pfft. Star Wars wasn't anything more than a slightly larger bugeted B-movie series, and I'm quite happy to think of it like that.

[Skull 001]

It is all about his vision. If he wanted to milk the franchise for all it is worth You would have seen the origionals and the SE already on DVD, then this updated version. Then as we all know when E3 comes out we will see the big Saga package of all 6 movies together. So tell me who is milking their franchise more SW who has held off putting out DVD's until they feel they are the way they want or say a LOTR that releases a DVD and months later another one with added footage just to get people to buy 2 sets.

So how many film makers have put their own money into restoring and updating a movie so it is the way they want. And as I said againt what many want because it is his vision and take the chance of losing money. Can you name 1.

Edited July 30, 2004 by Skull 001

[Hurin]

I looked (pretty hard) but didn't see this addressed:

In the original ESB, when Artoo is spit out by the creature, Luke turns him upright and says: "You're lucky you don't taste very good."

In the SE of ESB, the line is changed so that Luke says: "You were lucky to get out of there."

Any word on whether this change has remained intact? I'm encouraged by them removing the "scream" during Luke's fall. Maybe they (re)fixed this one too?

I loathe the Special Editions. My only consolation is that so far ESB (my favorite) has been the least mangled. It sounds like it might become less mangled still!

Thanks,

H

[Duke Togo]

There have been some questions as to what takes were used in the theatrical releases, what were used on the various VHS releases, and what we are getting on DVD. Who knows which audio is right.

[Sundown]

So tell me who is milking their franchise more SW who has held off putting out DVD's until they feel they are the way they want or say a LOTR that releases a DVD and months later another one with added footage just to get people to buy 2 sets.

You couldn't have picked a worse example of a DVD set that's just "milking a franchise." The LOTR sets, both the original release and the extended version, provides much, much more content than the theatrical release. The extended version supplies several extra DVD's that many viewers are actually interested in. Not only that, buyers were well informed that the extended set would be available down the line, even before the original set was released, so they would be able to choose exactly what they wanted, instead of being offered the next better thing a bit later and being suckered into buying both. The LOTR sets offered much, much, more than gimmicky edits and changes on every new release.

Lucas isn't necesesarily about milking. (Although three different versions of a 20 year old film in the last 10 years does say something.) This is all about him feeling the need to offer something different and new for difference's sake, and claiming that it's part of his original "vision", his own judgement of what his vision actually was muddled by time and his present mindset. Frankly, many of the changes in the Star Wars sets have been rather gimmicky and arbitrary-- often distracting, inconsistent, and thus wear down at the effectiveness of the film.

The problem most fans have with his changes isn't because he's trying to shape the films to his original vision. It's because he's shaping the film to his vision now, which appears to be constantly evolving, at his whim, and with less thought on what each element that he changes originally meant to the feel of the story, how each of those elements skillfully resonates with the rest of the trilogy, and more thought on "hey, wouldn't it be neat if..."

Example: The new edit replacing Shaw with young Anakin. The original scene impressed upon the viewers a certain tone-- a sense of triumphal tranquility, in having three wisened force "ghosts" watching the young protagonists as they celebrated their individual and collective victories. It gave the sense that this victory was much bigger than them, as the three fatherly figures watched upon them. It also highlighted Darth Vader's own transformation, in appearance and in character, from the dark to light side of the force again-- by his one redeeming act of total self-sacrifice. Vader was Anakin Skywalker once more, as the Skywalker he was in the last moments of life, now healed-- in a form that portrays him as Luke's father, and smiling upon him in paternal love and pride.

The new scene edits in young Anakin for the mere sake of "tie-ing better with the prequel", with little thought on what the scene now means. One begins to wonder why Anakin appears young, while Obi-Wan and Yoda appear in the form prior to their deaths. I suppose Lucas will explain away that Anakin appears as such because this is how he last was as "fully man" and as a lightside Jedi. But that only causes more problems for Vader's redemption, or at least, takes away from its impact and importance. That would suggest that Vader never really became fully "light" again and that Vader never transformed into something beyond himself in the last moments of his life-- that his best form and highest point of enlightenment was over 30 years ago, as a whiny and largely annoying Jedi. This scene also undermines Vader's final transition to the light side-- since young Anakin was always portrayed somewhat in the grey, and ever creeping closer to the Dark Side. Thus, it wears away at the scene of triumph and transformation, but cramming in Anakin as he was when he was closest to being fallen without actually being so. It also ends up losing the whole paternal tone, by giving Luke a visual image of his father that he couldn't have recognized. (I'm sure he would have figured it out, but still, the effect's lost.)

Why was it done? Because it'd be "neat".

And no, I'm not bashing these changes simply because they're new and different, and because nostalgia's got me seeing the old scene through colored rims. I'm actually torn between the new celebration scenes that pan across the galaxy, and the old classic Yub Nub sequence. The new scenes do add a certain amount of perspective and significance to the destruction of the Death Star and the Emporer's death (even though the effects and footage clash a bit with the rest of the movie), and make the last moments an epic one. However, it still comes across as being a little forced and canned-- because it paces a little bit oddly when tacked onto the original footage and writing, and because it seems to want to show the galaxy's response to the Alliance's victory in a mere 30 some seconds. It's jarring and forced, narratively, but I can appreciate what it's trying to say.

For what it's worth, the original movies weren't Lucas's vision alone. It was the vision of the artists, writers, directors, and actors that he enlisted-- and this joint effort made the films what they were. Now that he's got the sway and cash, he's able to supplant some of these things to his own whim. There's a fine line between being true to one's artistic integrity and vision, and being an egomaniac. I'll let folks formulate which side of the line Lucas resides on for themselves.

And lastly, I don't think Lucas fears that fans might not like his changes. He accurately knows that fans will be more likely to buy the new set if he offers a few gimmicks, and he knows that he'd be losing very few sales from a vocal minority of hardcore and critical fans. These decisions are as based just as much on business as on any artistic integrity anyone might attribute to him.

-Al

[bsu legato]

The new scene edits in young Anakin for the mere sake of "tie-ing better with the prequel", with little thought on what the scene now means. One begins to wonder why Anakin appears young, while Obi-Wan and Yoda appear in the form prior to their deaths. I suppose Lucas will explain away that Anakin appears as such because this is how he last was as "fully man" and as a lightside Jedi. But that only causes more problems for Vader's redemption, or at least, takes away from its impact and importance. That would suggest that Vader never really became fully "light" again and that Vader never transformed into something beyond himself in the last moments of his life-- that his best form and highest point of enlightenment was over 30 years ago, as a whiny and largely annoying Jedi. Why was it done? Because it'd be "neat".

Pure, 100% specualtion. For the record, there has been no official word on these changes one way or another. Further, possible Ep 3 spoilers cast a different light on Anakin's youthful-looking spirit. Either way, we'll have to wait.

and because it seems to want to show the galaxy's response to the Alliance's victory in a mere 30 some seconds. 

"Forced" or not, I think you're looking at the end celebrations a wee bit to literally.

Now that he's got the sway and cash, he's able to supplant some of these things to his own whim.  There's a fine line between being true to one's artistic integrity and vision, and being an egomaniac.  I'll let folks formulate which side of the line Lucas resides on for themselves.

This borders on plain old muckracking, plain and simple. Here, you really disappoint me Al. All kinds of internet posters love to go on and on about Lucas' supposed "megalomania" and his worshipping of the almighty dollar. But the problem is that it's all specualtion, usually put forth to support an anti-Prequel or anti-SE diatribe. Either that, or it's a sad attempt to bolster the notion of some lame franchise war. (for the record, Lucas and Jackson got along quite well)

And lastly, I don't think Lucas fears that fans might not like his changes.  He accurately knows that fans will be more likely to buy the new set if he offers a few gimmicks, and he knows that he'd be losing very few sales from a vocal minority of hardcore and critical fans.  These decisions are as based just as much on business as on any artistic integrity anyone might attribute to him.

Likewise, as much as some message board posters may complain long and hard about their childhoods being "raped" (the lamest piece of hysterical fanboy melodrama I've yet to read) many of them will still walk into Best Buy on Sept 21 and buy the DVDs regardless. The word "hypocricy" is lost on many people, nowadays.

[Sundown]

Pure, 100% specualtion. For the record, there has been no official word on these changes one way or another. Further, possible Ep 3 spoilers cast a different light on Anakin's youthful-looking spirit. Either way, we'll have to wait.

It's interpretation as much as it is "speculation". But "it'd be neat" is the only plausible thing I can come up with for why Lucas would trade the effect of the original scene for cramming Hayden Christenson in for a role originally played by someone of an entirely different age. Doesn't seem like an "original vision" sort of thing. If Lucas really wanted Anakin to reappear in a younger form, as part of his master plan, he would have cast a younger actor... then replaced the younger actor with Hayden now. Sure, it would have been confusing as all hell, but that only points to the fact that the original trilogy, and the original vision for the trilogy, was that it wasn't supposed to tie in in such an akward manner with movies that have yet to be made.

Either way, we'll have to wait for an explaination. But it strikes me odd that we didn't need an explaination for the last 20 years-- the scene stood well all on its own-- and now, ROTJ ends with a slightly more confusing ending and needing clarification from a movie that hasn't yet been released.

I certainly don't think Lucas was kicking himself each time he watched the ending of ROTJ before Ep II was made, thinking that old-wisend-Anakin was nothing like the picture he originally had in head.

"Forced" or not, I think you're looking at the end celebrations a wee bit to literally.

I'm not sure what's too literal from reading that planets all over the galaxy are celebrating Palpatine's downfall. Because that's what it shows and implies. Unless Lucas was only showing that a few certain systems even cared, which then makes the Alliance less just and less triumpant. Either way, as much as I did like the scenes for adding something to the narrative (as opposed to Jedi Rocks), it was a little bit akward.

This borders on plain old muckracking, plain and simple. Here, you really disappoint me Al. All kinds of internet posters love to go on and on about Lucas' supposed "megalomania" and his worshipping of the almighty dollar. But the problem is that it's all specualtion, usually put forth to support an anti-Prequel or anti-SE diatribe. Either that, or it's a sad attempt to bolster the notion of some lame franchise war. (for the record, Lucas and Jackson got along quite well)

I'm not sure what's so dissapointing about me having my own interpretations and opinions for Lucas's action. And I wasn't aware that you ever had any expectations placed on my personal view of things-- so sorry to dissapoint if you were expecting more palpatable. Then again, I never did say which side of the line I personally believed Lucas to lie on, so I guess I oughta clarify now:

I think he simply puts too much weight on the value of his own vision and believing that everything he envisioned (or now thinks he envisioned) makes for a better film. He's also a little too quick to make changes without weighing the meaning of the original scene, in favor of whatever sentiment drives him to change that scene now. In areas where he's had to compromise or relent to the creative direction of others, he doesn't seem altogether satisfied with. And it seems that he's enjoying his freedom to make edits and changes, and no longer has any outside checks that leave real weight or impressions on him.

I wasn't being facetious when I suggested that one determine what he believes of Lucas. I meant it... and one's take will be influence by one's opinion regarding the changes themselves. I personally lean slightly towards the "too self-absorbed and preoccupied with newness for the good of the movies and those he originally made them for" side of the line-- that's the only thing that explains for me how some of the puzzling additions and alterations have been made-- but that's my failing, I guess.

-Al

Edited July 31, 2004 by Sundown

[Blaine23]

Actually, the "sizable number" as you put it, really couldn't care less about the changes he's making.

First off all, I did say a "sizeable number", Corey - not the majority. I'm well aware that your average Joe Sixpack doesn't care or possibly even notice. All I said was that enough people do to justify a release of the original movies.

It's only the hardcore fanboys that are really perturbed by it, and it only seems like everyone cares because we're all hardcore fanboys on this (and other) message boards.

Actually, I'm no Star Wars hardcore fanboy. I'm just a guy who grew up with the movies. I don't buy the books, toys, or dress up like a jedi (well, not since Halloween when I was 11). I like movies in general enough to know what a "best boy" does - does that make me hardcore fanboy?

Remember, Lucas isn't making these films for those who live and breathe by the tenants of the first trilogy.  He's using his money to do what he wants to HIS product.

See, that's kinda my point here. The way I see it, the movies he released to theaters back then deserve the respect any popular 20 year old film would be given. And I also don't see it as HIS product, no matter how much they push it as a singular vision. Tons of people worked on those movies, the designers, the actors, the modelers, the guys in suits... not to mention audiences of millions who paid to see them... why is it HIS movie?

I understand the guy has every legal right to release and not release whatever he wants. But I also reserve the right to call it what I think it is. I think it's lame to rewrite cinema history because new gadgets have come out. I'm the same kind of person who hates "colorized" films, too.

I for one am really, really tired of all the whining about how he's ruining a good show.  Pfft.  Star Wars wasn't anything more than a slightly larger bugeted B-movie series, and I'm quite happy to think of it like that.

So you're gonna make complaints regarding someone's feelings toward a movie you don't even like? At least I can say that I'm only complaining because I really do love those original movies and I hate to see them swept under the rug because models don't look as "pretty" as CGI.

Edited July 31, 2004 by Blaine23

[CoryHolmes]

And I also don't see it as HIS product, no matter how much they push it as a singular vision. Tons of people worked on those movies, the designers, the actors, the modelers, the guys in suits... not to mention audiences of millions who paid to see them... why is it HIS movie?

It's HIS movie because it's HIS money that paid for all of it. Sure, it was released by Fox, but nobody else put up the cash to pay the designers, the actors, the modelers, or the guys in suits. And for me, whomever signs the cheques gets TOTAL rights to the product.

Calling SW not Lucas' film because of other people is sort of like trying to say LOTR isn't Tolkeen's because Peter Jackson worked on it.

So you're gonna make complaints regarding someone's feelings toward a movie you don't even like? At least I can say that I'm only complaining because I really do love those original movies and I hate to see them swept under the rug because models don't look as "pretty" as CGI.

Ah, see, that's where you're wrong. I am a "fanboy" by any stretch of the imagination. I read (and reread) the novels, I try to keep up on the comics, I even write Star Wars fanfic (though I have yet to debase myself to point where I'm gonna dress up as SW Cosplay *shudder*).

But that doesn't change the fact that SW IS a B-grade sci-fi flick. Little more than good old-fashioned popcorn fun. I have absolutly no problems will calling it as such, because that's what it is; no ifs, ands, or buts will change that.

And I'm with you on all counts, really. I would be first in line for a classic edition of the original trilogy, mistakes, goofs, and flaws and all. But I also enjoy the Special Editions for the simple fact that they tell the same story will only a little change of the bedsheets, sometimes for the good, sometimes not so good.

[bsu legato]

Either way, we'll have to wait for an explaination. But it strikes me odd that we didn't need an explaination for the last 20 years-- the scene stood well all on its own-- and now, ROTJ ends with a slightly more confusing ending and needing clarification from a movie that hasn't yet been released.

What I meant is that, depending on how certain key scenes in Ep III ( I still can't get used to it actually having a name) he's felt the need to refine the way the ghost scene plays out. I don't know if any of what I've heard in this regard were ever confirmed as legitiamte spoilers, but this revision may indeed be necessary. For the record, I don't buy all of the "original vision" stuff either, but Lucas isn't the only artist refining his early works in light of more recent additions to the narrative. Heck, even Tolkien made changes to the Hobbit while working on LOTR.

I'm not sure what's too literal from reading that planets all over the galaxy are celebrating Palpatine's downfall.  Because that's what it shows and implies.  Unless Lucas was only showing that a few certain systems even cared, which then makes the Alliance less just and less triumpant.  Either way, as much as I did like the scenes for adding something to the narrative (as opposed to Jedi Rocks), it was a little bit akward.

Oh, I thought you were complaining about how the celebrations fit into the timeline. I've seen complaints about the so-called immediacy of the celebrations before. As to how well they fit? Eh...I could go either way, but it's still a bit classier than "Yub yub."

And I wasn't aware that you ever had any expectations placed on my personal view of things

I always have expectations of the smart posters here.

I think he simply puts too much weight on the value of his own vision and believing that everything he envisioned (or now thinks he envisioned) makes for a better film.  He's also a little too quick to make changes without weighing the meaning of the original scene, in favor of whatever sentiment drives him to change that scene now.  In areas where he's had to compromise or relent to the creative direction of others, he doesn't seem altogether satisfied with.  And it seems that he's enjoying his freedom to make edits and changes, and no longer has any outside checks that leave real weight or impressions on him

Fair enough, but you gotta admit that's still a fair way away from pure "megalomania."

[Sundown]

See, that's kinda my point here. The way I see it, the movies he released to theaters back then deserve the respect any popular 20 year old film would be given. And I also don't see it as HIS product, no matter how much they push it as a singular vision. Tons of people worked on those movies, the designers, the actors, the modelers, the guys in suits... not to mention audiences of millions who paid to see them... why is it HIS movie?

Bingo. The movie and its success belongs as much to everyone who's worked on the movie-- who collectively have contributed to the movie, in blood, sweat, tears... much more than Lucas has in providing vision (however critical and key that is)... along with the audience that made it successful.

To think it belongs to him and him alone, and thus he's allowed to do with it however he pleases discounts the reality and complexity of the situation.

Yes, he's got every right to make whatever edits he feels like and releasing them. But the fact that he's so persistant in trying to bury the original theatrical release-- a piece of film-making history-- by refusing to release it in any current media format, making it now impossible for anyone to purchase those pieces and view them for himself, justified in his mind only because they do not match the vision he has in his head-- does point out that Lucas has a certain sense of entitlement that he's lording a bit. The truth is, movie-making and enjoying is a collaborative endeavor, and I personally feel that trying to bury the original movies that put him where he is is a snub at that process and truth.

I think it's lame to rewrite cinema history because new gadgets have come out. I'm the same kind of person who hates "colorized" films, too.

What Lucas is doing is vaguely similar to colorizing the films, as tacky as that is... then destroying or making it difficult to access the originals. The new changes are dubious in quality-- and the history of the original film is lost due to the makers' own self-absorbtion with the current form of his tenous vision.

-Al

[Blaine23]

And I also don't see it as HIS product, no matter how much they push it as a singular vision. Tons of people worked on those movies, the designers, the actors, the modelers, the guys in suits... not to mention audiences of millions who paid to see them... why is it HIS movie?

It's HIS movie because it's HIS money that paid for all of it. Sure, it was released by Fox, but nobody else put up the cash to pay the designers, the actors, the modelers, or the guys in suits. And for me, whomever signs the cheques gets TOTAL rights to the product.

Calling SW not Lucas' film because of other people is sort of like trying to say LOTR isn't Tolkeen's because Peter Jackson worked on it.

So you're gonna make complaints regarding someone's feelings toward a movie you don't even like? At least I can say that I'm only complaining because I really do love those original movies and I hate to see them swept under the rug because models don't look as "pretty" as CGI.

Then I refer to what I said directly after the quote -

I understand the guy has every legal right to release and not release whatever he wants. But I also reserve the right to call it what I think it is. I think it's lame to rewrite cinema history because new gadgets have come out. I'm the same kind of person who hates "colorized" films, too.

I know George owns the movies - I'm not disputing that. I'm questioning the artistic integrity & wisdom of NOT releasing the OT and replacing it with a new version.

And I'm with you on all counts, really.  I would be first in line for a classic edition of the original trilogy, mistakes, goofs, and flaws and all.  But I also enjoy the Special Editions for the simple fact that they tell the same story will only a little change of the bedsheets, sometimes for the good, sometimes not so good.

I don't hate the SE's either. I'm pretty sure I made that point back when I made the thread. I just want to be able to the original flicks on my flat-screen and my surround sound whenever I want to.

Just because I'm bitching about the new releases doesn't mean I won't see it or even buy it if there's no other option. But if they put out a DVD set of the OT right next to the new ones on the shelf, I'd buy the old ones, even it cost more.

Either way, it's nothing to argue about... I don't know why anybody sees it as "whining", either. Tons of DVDs have multiple editions and several film box sets have multiple versions of the same film. That's what DVD and film lovers are all about.

[Sundown]

It's HIS movie because it's HIS money that paid for all of it.  Sure, it was released by Fox, but nobody else put up the cash to pay the designers, the actors, the modelers, or the guys in suits.  And for me, whomever signs the cheques gets TOTAL rights to the product.

Yes, Lucas has full legal rights. Whether or not his use of that right is artistically and cinematically appropriate is a different issue. That's a "right" of a whole different kind, and is something that's respected and acted upon only if one's inclined to in the first place.

And if Tolkien decides to rise from the grave and add dancing Orcs in Sauron's lair in Return Of The King-- or if Da Vinci did the same and then proceeded to sneak into the Louvre and slap a mustache on the Mona Lisa because he was feeling particularly giddy that day... expect folks to call them out on the same sort of thing. That just ain't right. Plus, I hate the undead.

What I meant is that, depending on how certain key scenes in Ep III ( I still can't get used to it actually having a name) he's felt the need to refine the way the ghost scene plays out. I don't know if any of what I've heard in this regard were ever confirmed as legitiamte spoilers, but this revision may indeed be necessary.

I suppose it might make for a better ending, depending on those scenes... but if that's true, then it doesn't sit well with me that Lucas is writing scenes which fit poorly with the existing films and necessitate their changing. Plus, I'm not a real big fan of him writing scenes for a trilogy that I'm lukewarm to, affecting changes in a movie that I actually do adore, causing it to lose something of its original narrative.

Oh, I thought you were complaining about how the celebrations fit into the timeline. I've seen complaints about the so-called immediacy of the celebrations before. As to how well they fit? Eh...I could go either way, but it's still a bit classier than "Yub yub."

Granted, the immediacy bugged me a tad, although I read it as partially symbolic, and partially as taking place in the possible hours that might have elapsed from before the scene to the moments after it. In either case, I'm sure the Alliance could (and would) have quickly sent out news of Palpatine's defeat on all hyperspace channels... news would travel fast. It was the way-too-bright CG and the stacato cuts that were distracting, portraying something so momumental in such short screentime. But I did get goosebumps.

I always have expectations of the smart posters here.

I guess I oughta be blushing or something.

Fair enough, but you gotta admit that's still a fair way away from pure "megalomania."

Hey, it's not me who thinks he's an undeniable egomaniac. But I can see how the traits he's exhibited in his treatment of the films might be interpreted by some impassioned folks as just that.

-Al

[Blaine23]

Oh, I thought you were complaining about how the celebrations fit into the timeline. I've seen complaints about the so-called immediacy of the celebrations before. As to how well they fit? Eh...I could go either way, but it's still a bit classier than "Yub yub."

And for the record, as much as I love the OT... "yub yub" sucks.

Edited July 31, 2004 by Blaine23

[Max Jenius]

Some of the changes I like... others I don't like so much... like Hayden in ROTJ... he just doesn't seem to fit with me.

Maybe there will be further explaination in the commentary.

[bsu legato]

Well looky here. I found a snippet of the commentary from the leaked ROTJ DVD, and it's regarding Anakin and his ghostly appearance at the end of the film! The applicable quote:

as he joins the force he's able to retain his original identity...his identity as he was as he died as Anakin Skywalker

So, to me, that clinches it. Anakin doesn't just get a little toasted in Ep 3. He physically honest-to-god dies and is resurrected by machinery and Palpatine's dark powers. Hence, when he shows up as a spirit, he's as he looked physically when he kicked the bucket. Check out the mp3 file HERE.

[bsu legato]

And just 'cause I'm in a sharing mood, here's some leaked publicity artwork for ROTS.

[bsu legato]

This one sort of reminds me on the early teaser poster for Temple of Doom.

[Blaine23]

Cool art. The great thing about this being the third movie is that Vader can finally be a big component of the artwork. Star Wars art without Vader just lacks a certain sense of iconography and power.

What a well designed helmet can do...

[Guppy]

WOW! That's a great poster. Is it official ep 3 publicity or a very good fan job?

[bsu legato]

WOW! That's a great poster. Is it official ep 3 publicity or a very good fan job?

When I found them, the sory was that these were some cool internal posters. However, it's possible that they've been debunked as fan art by now. Either way, they kick ass.

[Keith]

Hmm, I just got some top secret info that says Lucas has actually let Kawamori edit the special edition DVD re-release which Kawamori will now be overseeing. The ewok's will apparently be much smaller now too, with little stringy tails...

Edited August 2, 2004 by Keith

[zeo-mare]

fire bomber vader, i cannot wait to see the ship designs

[Blaine23]

Does that look like a bad independent metal album from Sweden or is it just me?

[Anubis]

Well looky here. I found a snippet of the commentary from the leaked ROTJ DVD, and it's regarding Anakin and his ghostly appearance at the end of the film! The applicable quote:

as he joins the force he's able to retain his original identity...his identity as he was as he died as Anakin Skywalker

So, to me, that clinches it. Anakin doesn't just get a little toasted in Ep 3. He physically honest-to-god dies and is resurrected by machinery and Palpatine's dark powers. Hence, when he shows up as a spirit, he's as he looked physically when he kicked the bucket. Check out the mp3 file HERE.

That is such a HUGE cop out.

If Anakin was truly dead within Vader, then there would have been nothing to redeem. There would not have been that spark of good left in him for Luke to reach. Lucas fished for a pretty lame excuse there, to say that that was how he appeared when Anakin died in ep 3. Not happy. So what, he automatically resets back to where he left off as a light-sider? Whatever.

Edited August 2, 2004 by Anubis

[Hurin]

That is such a HUGE cop out.

What is said in the MP3 is open to interpretation:

"as he joins the force he is able to retain his original identity. It's because of Obi-Wan and Yoda who learn how to do that. How to join the force at will and then retain your identity. But it was his identity as it was when he died, as Anakin Skywalker."

For the record, this could apply to either scene, changed or not. Personally, I still think he's still referring to him dying at the end of ROTJ. . . as Anakin Skywalker.

"I've got to save you."

"You already have, Luke. You were right about me. . ."

H

[Skull 001]

Sorry my internet is out at home and i only have it at work. In response to LOTR telling everyone they are making both sets still makes the hard core fans who wish to watch it over and over to buy the first and the second for the new material. Why couldn't it be done for the first release.

As far as current films like LOTR wanting to go back and add stuff there is a huge differnce. LOTR had the technology to do excatly what they wanted. SW is over 20 years old and wasn't given a huge budget to work with so things couldn't be done like they wanted at the time. As one said so why make it? Would you turn down the chance to make a film you wanted.

Now don't get me wrong the Greedo thing kills me Luke screaming as he falls down the pit bothers me but everything else isn't that bad. One of my favorite scenes now is in ANH when the X-wings are flying into battle and you see them all in formation that is great. I will have to see when the new changes are done and in the story to really see how I feel. But for the most part I am just glad to see them updated and not forgotten about.

[Hurin]

I think comparing LotR and Star Wars is apples and oranges.

The whole point with the Star Wars DVD releases is that we no longer have a choice regarding which version of the films we are allowed to watch (at least on non-decaying DVD).

In the case of the LotR, we are given the choice of viewing the original theatrical release, or (several months later) purchasing the extended edition with as much as 30-60 minutes of new footage each.

In my book, more choices are a good thing.

H

[Anubis]

I love your page Hurin. Dead on.

[lt.actionjackson]

I agree with Hurin, the point is that LOTR fans were given a choice, while SW fans were given the shaft. There is no reason not to release the original and the super extreme special edition with all new unecessary scenes edition right next to each other on DVD. Heck, go out on a limb Lucasfilm and put them in the same box and watch the money flow in for the Special Golden Goose Fanboy Pack! Even Lucas's buddy, Spielberg offered both the original and the edited editions of ET when he put that out on DVD. The fact the Lucas and co can't understand what's so terrible about Greedo shooting first completly boggles my mind to this day. Han's meeting with Jabba? Pointless. Sarclacc Pit with a giant flowered mouth and beak? Huh? I think the "pit" was just as intimidating just shooting out tentacles. Wouldn't it then be called the sarlaac monster? Anyway, the point is, there is no excuse not to give true fans the option of having the originals or the re-releases. If you're going to edit your original vision 20+ years later, replace all the ewoks with cg wookies at the very least. Oh, and since they want to do some more edits why let the galaxies baddest bounty hunter get beat by a blind guy and a stick?!

[Sundown]

So, to me, that clinches it. Anakin doesn't just get a little toasted in Ep 3. He physically honest-to-god dies and is resurrected by machinery and Palpatine's dark powers. Hence, when he shows up as a spirit, he's as he looked physically when he kicked the bucket. Check out the mp3 file HERE.

Then that takes a little... well, a lot actually... away from Vader's own redemption and transformation back to Anakin, for me at least. All that work, all that sacrifice, all that putting up with a whiny Jedi excuse for a son and tossing some old sparking fogey over a railing... just to end up as a whiny Jedi himself again in the afterlife. I would have liked to think that with Vader's last act, he became more himself, more healed, and more one with the light side of the force than ever before-- taking that identity as a spirit. At least that's what the movie had shown for 20 years. Ah well, no dice. *shrug*

Thing that bugs me is that Lucas is trying to cast Anakin as this odd reverse-Christ. Virgin birth, resurrection, Messianic references, etc. But in doing so, he wears from the original theme of redemption-- placing focus on Christenson's young Anakin, who he's enamoured with, instead of focus on old Vader/Anakin/Luke's Father. If Lucas wanted to play with vaguely Christian allusions, then I'd rather have him parallel the transfiguration with Vader's own transformation to his "true self" at the end of his life, immediately following his act of sacrifice. But looks like he's set on applying those themes to young Anakin instead, making Vader a sort of walking undead, who's best hope is to revert to the form his old, angsty, whiny, and largely annoying self once took.

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that leaving Vader in this sort of living limbo causes his character to stop growing, but this twist does make his Vader and older state something he just needs to get away from, to revert back to his old self... instead of something that he needed to go through fully with, as Anakin Skywalker, fully alive, in order to reach and build what's to become his ultimate identity.

This all takes a little bit away from Obi-wan telling Luke that his father was "dead". That line had always been presented as "a manner of speaking" and "true from a certain point of view." But now, Obi-wan wasn't just being poetic. Anakin *did* die. Maybe that's neat in Lucas's eyes, but to me it feels hackneyed and forced, and changes many of the original scenes' implied meaning to something much more literal and a lot less poetic.

-Al