Potential Redesign in the works

[Knight26]

I never really had a problem with this design until I did a description of it in the book I am currently working on. After I wrote the description I looked back at the design and it did not really fit it anymore, so I decided to redesign it. I kind of like the new design, but a buddy at work said it looked like a Star Trek Cardasian (sp?) ship. I looked at one and noticed the resemblance but dismissed it as they took the same inspiration for the hull layout I did, a Ray, this time it was the Southern Eagle Ray, the old one, just a generic Stingray. So what do you guys think? I appreciate any and all comments.

Edited February 7, 2004 by Knight26

[Knight26]

First Picture, the Original Design:

[Knight26]

The New Design, that image in the background is the Eagle Ray that I figured the hull layout from, unfortunately when I rendered it the picture was stretched, my bad. But, when I first drew it, it was proportioned properly. Anyway here is the new version:

[Knight26]

Here is the description, first draft so it may change a little, please excuse any typos or bad grammar.

Removed Description.

Edited February 10, 2004 by Knight26

[the white drew carey]

Sadly, I voted to scrap them both. I don't think they're crap, but that's the closest vote I could choose that represented my thoughts: Scrap Them.

IMHO, the problem with the ships is that they don't look either 1) Uber-realistic (taking into account how a large ship in space really would look, simply due to it's operational needs and design, or 2) Nor are they exciting and flashy, which is the complete other end of the realism spectrum, but makes for good eye candy. They just don't look like something to write home about.

Many of the details, including the gun turrets and whatnot, are especially bland. Plus, the multi-hued hull patterns (seperate hull-plating?) is waaay too pronounced and gives me a slight headache when I look at it.

I think you're on the right track but, no offense, the designs are fairly generic looking. I vote for you too keep designing. Sketch out multiple ideas and fiddle with them. Also, don't be afraid to dedicate large amounts of time designing small feature such as the gun turrets, missile racks, hanger bays, etc. The more thought that you put into it, the greater your desire will be to continually refine the design until you've produced something interesting and unique.

[Knight26]

The design is still evolving, the turrets will be replaced and details added to the hull. As for the color scheme that is just a temporary texture I applied, maybe I should have shown untextured shots for now. Details like manuevering thrusters still need to be added. I haven't put much time into it yet because I am still trying to decide if it is worth the effort. Maybe that is where the confusion lies, this ship is far from finished.

And WDC what do you mean it doesn't appear large enough? Just how big do you think this ship is? Maybe I should have stated the size to begin with, it is a little over 1000 ft long. This is actually small compared to most sci-fi spacecraft, except some of the trek designs. Unlike other sci-fi spacecraft I try to take into account real physics and what would be required to speed up, slow down, and manuever a ship. Believe it or not I've done a lot of real world design work including concept designs for real spacecraft, a background in aerospace engineering helps.

Edited February 7, 2004 by Knight26

[EXO]

I like the redesign a lot more than the previous one. The first one reminds of those bad guys in reboot. I don't think the CAD rendering represents the ship well but the design has potential. Reminds me of a B-17 FF on crazy amount of steroids. With the right representation it would lookm awesome.

[Knight26]

Ok, did a little more work on it, replaced the turrets, though I may still replace them again, changed the texture redid the forward retro thrusters and added a bank of manuevering thrusters to the wings. I think it makes it look a lot better, opinions?

[Etrigan]

Looks rather... phallic.

[Knight26]

Looks rather... phallic.

I'd ask you to explain, but no never mind. *Wonder's who said to just give it up*

[UN Spacy]

Being a TNG fan (my sig explains it all) I think your design consists of parts from a Ferengi (AFT section), Klingon V'orcha Class (STERN section), and Romulan D'deridex Wardbird.

I like the redesign....the lines are a bit more elegant.

[the white drew carey]

Much, much better. The turrets look way better than before. Personly, I'm not too fond of the brown block on back, but I understand the idea, so I'll deal.

The design is key, but the 3D render you've done still hurts the overall impact. It actually looks like a papercraft ship, because it's so simplisticly blocky. But the advance you've made already show great promise.

Aim for the stars, Tiger.

[Knight26]

I think I know what WDC is talking about with the renders so I made two scenes with the Stingray and it's older cousin the Cenobite Destroyer, another Lodran ship. Yes I know the Destroyer is larger then the cruiser, but that is one of the ways I designate ships. Infact Destroyers are designated by weapons type, in this case large scale anti-capital ship weapons. Those big keel mounted cannons in the forward hull are asteroid cannons, hurl a big enough rock fast enough and it will destroy a capital ship in one hit, plus it is a great siege weapon. Well first picture.

[Knight26]

Second picture, lightings a little better here.

[Beware of Blast]

I like the second one too, especially with the stingray shape that inspired the design. Maybe you can add a little more detail like minute jagged protrusions to make it look more menacing. Since you've used the stingray (I don't know how far you intend to redesign it), it could be a good idea also, to allow the tail to break loose and free (like you would a whip) - That could serve as a tactical move for the ship to defend it's rear with it's gun or projectile weapons or whip/crash on the enemy ships at close range. Just a thought.

[Knight26]

Actually BoB that was an early design idea for the original but I scrapped it when I stuck the beam cannon in the tail. A regular beam cannon is actually fired out of those domes on the hull of the ship, the black ones with the green spots, Placeholder texture for now. But the big one that rides in the tail actually fires out of that red box, it opens to reveal the weapon. Once that whole thing was worked out I realized that a beam cannon that large would create too much of recoil when fired to allow it to be on a flexible mount. Therefore I opted for the solid tail design, and worked the design history and order of battle to match. Thanks for the comment though, and I am considering something like that for a corvette scaled craft, having a smaller beam cannon riding the tip of its tail, but that one is still in the early concept phase.

[Knight26]

I've put the Stingray aside for a couple days, anyway I've been on a redesign kick lately and have redesigned another of my early designs. Come to think of it, I've redone a lot of my old ships, only a few have remained unchanged, but that was because I didn't comprimise on their designs much if at all, just improved on them. Anyway this one is not part of the vote but thought you guys might like to comment on it.

This is the Liberator Class Transatmopsheric High Speed Courier/Corvette. The old design never sat quite right with me, actually derived it from an old toy I had laying around. It was originally minimally armed but extremely fast with decent shields so the military adapted it to their purposes. They added more armament, not enough make it a serious threat but enough to give it some punch against potential hostiles as well as ramping up the shields. They are very plentiful and are actually found in use by both sides because special ops teams used them to go deep into enemy territory and quite a few were captured. Anyway onto the pics, here is the original first, not the best in the world I know.

[Knight26]

Here is the new version, added better wings, two more turrets and a second launch bay as well a few more details. The texture is temporary and will be replaced BTW, just a placeholder for now. This is a later model variant with the advance Particle Duct Engines, a primitive gravity drive used by the younger races. Earlier variant did not have the large intakes in the wings. Well let me know what you think, personnally I think the new one is a great improvement. Maybe some day I'll actually get around to making the civilian variant.

[Sundown]

While I think the designs could use some serious work and refinement, there are a couple of "themes" I can kind of feel and really do like there.

The engines on the stingray and how they fit and flow with the rest of the ship, along with their size and how pronounced they are... as well as the blue ship, with all those round intakes and the way they mesh with the wings-- are the beginnings of basic design motifs that could really work.

Think I like the stingray ship's engines because they remind me a little of Star Wars Mon Cal cruisers, the way they're positioned and inlaid.

Personally, I think the key to designing eye-catching, compelling, and convincing ships lies partly in avoiding the "slap a bunch of boxes and polygons together" syndrome. A ship that looks like a ship, and not a 3D CG experiment, tends to look as if its shape and hull was designed on paper or in the artist's mind, not merely simplified to make it easy to model in a CAD program. Or conversely, looks like it was designed for function-- utilitarian and simple in concept, yet with all the necessary complexity, tubing, ports, wiring, greebles, and attachments that by themselves also look like they *do* something in real life, and aren't more mini-CG exercises.

I've seen plenty of CG space ships that look basically like a bunch of primitives slapped together-- even really detailed designs that look like they've got a fair deal of work put into them. It's nice to see your newer designs moving a little bit away from that.

-Al

[Knight26]

Thanks for the comments everyone, I really apperciate them and will continue to refine the designs. I have to admit that a lot of my early designs were comprimised when they transistioned from paper to CAD, early CAD programs I used didn't have the capability to make certain shapes I wanted. Other designs were comprimised by experimentation, hmm wonder what this would look like. Some of my older designs have only gotten better though since I imported them into CAD, as I have added more details and have had an easier time fixing old errors. The big destroyer in the scene renders is actually one of my oldest designs and as I have learned more and refined the design it has gotten much better. Some of my most visually interesting ships were the results of experiments in new hull shapes and I liked how those turned out. For the most part though I tend to design my ships to be utilitarian in nature more then visually stunning. I also try and make them as realisitic in design as possible though each race tends to have its own design themes to their ships. One of the things that people will notice in my designs that do not show up in most sci-fi ships is that all of my ships have a visible reverse thrust system. YOu have to have someway to slow down in space, plus I usually model in manuevering thrusters as well, though a few still need that right now. Again thanks for the comments and I will keep you updated.