Air Force Delta Strike

[David Hingtgen]

Heh--I cut that part out to separate my posts, but Graham already quoted it. Reply down below.

Shin--yup, basically the -22 is *believed* to be superior in a knife-fight. (Of course, Lockheed says its definitely superior. But anyone who's looked at the -23's control scheme, and the fuselage cross-section, realizes it should be able to do INSANE things----the -22 is nothing more but an unstable -15 with more power--but the -23 is all new, with massive wings and massive tails and totally unstable---it's like an F-16 on speed)

Graham---the F-22 is allowed to use vectoring, just not to enhance its manueverability. See, a Super Flanker or the like, uses thrust vectoring to do all those post-stall, ultra-high-alpha insane moves that they otherwise would have no chance of doing, being aerodynamically impossible and all. (But not "raw engine power" impossible).

However, the F-22 isn't allowed to do that. (By command of the Air Force). It is only allowed to use it to TRANSITION from one manuever to the other, faster. As in, if it's going to an Immelmann from a Cuban-8, then it will use its vectoring to pitch up faster to initiate the Immelmann, the moment its done rolling out of the Cuban-8. A normal plane would need to pause for a second to build up energy, but vectoring will take care of that. However, for say a Herbst turn, an F-22 won't be doing that, as it absolutely would require thrust-vectoring to accomplish, and the F-22 couldn't do it without it.

Basically---the Air Force doesn't want a plane to initiate a move, then have the vectoring fail, thus causing the plane to crash because it couldn't finish the move without its vectoring. If you never do a move that REQUIRES vectoring, you'll never have that happen. So while an F-22 may be able to do moves FASTER than the F-16 by using vectoring to "help them along", it won't be able to do anything "new". As opposed to most other new planes, which use vectoring to open up all sorts of "impossible" moves.

[Druna Skass]

How come they never had the YF-22 and YF-23 go at it in a mock fight?

[David Hingtgen]

Because that might actually prove something. No F-14 vs F-15, no YF-16 vs YF-17, no YA-9 vs YA-10, no X-32 vs X-35, etc. It allows Congress to fund whichever one looks better on whichever papers they want to read. If they actually FLEW against each other, then there might be a clear winner, and the lobbyists wouldn't get their way.

PS---mock fight, it's so the YF-23. Faster supercruise (thus can launch missiles from farther away with a greater chance of hitting) and much stealthier (it could lock on the YF-22 before the 22 even knew the 23 was there, and harder to lock on for retaliation). And if they get in close, the YF-23 has a way smaller heat/IR signature, hard to lock on to with Sidewinders (entrenched nozzles with heat-absorbing tiles, and a sleeker airframe for less kinetic heating). As opposed to the YF-22's vectored thrust nozzles, which is a giant moving beacon to a heat-seeker...

Of course, I'm biased.

[F-ZeroOne]

Maybe someday they'll clear the -22 to use its vectoring like MiG or Sukhoi do, but not now, and not for a while.  (Explanation available, but this post is already long)

I'd love to know why the F-22 is not cleared to use it's thrust vecoring yet. First I've heard of it.

Graham

Another reason may be due to the fact that when NASA experimented with post-stall agility utilising thrust vectoring, they found that pilots could find some of the stunts they pulled disorientating - for example, with the proper configuration, a plane can fly in one direction while keeping its nose constantly pointed in another - in other words, it could fly alongside you in a staright line whilst shooting at you with its guns...!

Such things were considered a bit much for the average squadron jock to handle...

[mikeszekely]

mikeszekely...

What would you rank this out of 10 with 10 being the highest?

Tell us about some of the missions.

Well, bearing in mind that I'm only comparing it to other console air combat games, not games in general, I'll give it a 7 out of 10, with 10 being Ace Combat and 1 being the truly crappy Top Gun. Like I've said before, AFDS has some interesting missions (and from what I've been reading, a TON of missions), more cool planes than you can shake a stick at, and adequate gameplay. I mean, if you've played Ace Combat, you can get into AFDS. It's really just that Ace Combat is so much more refined... you play AFDS, you handle it the same way you do Ace Combat, but it's just not Ace Combat. But considering that there hasn't been a decent air combat game since Ace Combat 4, AFDS is a nice change that will keep me entertained for awhile... at least until Ace Combat 5. AFDS is waaaaaaaaaay better than the Lethal Skies series.

Well, a lot of the missions are your typical air combat fare. Several dogfights where you have to at least down the target aircraft, a few dogfights where you fight for the time limit, a mission or two where you have to destroy enemy ships, and one where you have to destroy an enemy fueling station. I've had some interesting ones, though. I've already mentioned the one where you have to take out the enemy subs that are hiding in ice flows. There was another high altitude mission where you had to hit these enemy transports. It was unusual because you couldn't go under the clouds (the operator said that high winds would break the fighter apart), but the transports were huge, and would dive beneath the clouds, so it was kind of like whaling. There was another stage where you have to defend a train, but there's a ton of other tracks with enemy trains that are shooting your train. And the most interesting one I've done was your canyon mission. You know the ones, you can't fly higher than the canyon walls? Except this one had these huge tires rolling through the canyon. The most memorable moment in that level was when you have to dive into this tiny ditch at the bottom of the canyon to escape being crushed by two rollers in a row.

[Druna Skass]

Hmm, looks like I'll have to con someone out of $40...

Oh one last question, I know you're not too far in to it, but is it longer than Ace Combat 4?

Edited February 6, 2004 by Druna Skass

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

judging from what I have read it is longer than ace cmbat 4 and has some real funky missions. HAve you done the space mission yet mike? Its with pods attached as space boosters.

[mikeszekely]

I'd have to guess that it is longer than Ace Combat 4. AC4 wound up with less than 20 missions, right? I think I read somewhere that there's over 60 in AFDS, but I'm sure that some of them count those "Mission Intercept" battles and what not.

Sorry, haven't done the space missions yet. I'm stuck on this mission where there's these glowing diamonds. They blink on and off like Christmas lights. When they're off, you shoot them, and part of the enemy defense grid goes down, so you can try to shoot the core. Unfortunately, you'll die if you pass through when the diamond is on, an ace by the name of Pierre is trying to make sure you die anyway, they're buildings and laser grids that limit where you can go, and if you fly to high, you'll hit the enemy's plasma shield and die. Yeah... you definately die more in AFDS than in AC4. Oh, but the kicker is that the mission is timed, too.

[ogami]

Any sercet planes in this game?

[Coota0]

Got me wanting to replay AC4 so I was playing it an I have a few questions:

1) Did the final mission seem Starwarsesque to anyone else?

2) Anybody else think wow a helicopter would be nice after the dogfight on that mission?

3) How do you get the fighters with the different paint schemes?

4) How do you get the money to buyt aircraft/weapons exactly?

[Druna Skass]

Got me wanting to replay AC4 so I was playing it an I have a few questions:

1) Did the final mission seem Starwarsesque to anyone else?

2) Anybody else think wow a helicopter would be nice after the dogfight on that mission?

3) How do you get the fighters with the different paint schemes?

4) How do you get the money to buyt aircraft/weapons exactly?

The ending seemed a bit 80s-ish to me. The last level was basicaly a re-make of the last level in Ace Combat 2.

What mission?

You get diffrent paint jobs by shooting down the aces in each level, their names come up when you target them. Like Su-37YELLOW

You get money buy blowing stuff up.

Edited February 7, 2004 by Druna Skass

[Druna Skass]

So what's the whole story in AFDS? I was looking at the PSM screenshots and they said it starts out with a city getting nuke, then there one level with these wheel things rolling around.

[mikeszekely]

So what's the whole story in AFDS? I was looking at the PSM screenshots and they said it starts out with a city getting nuke, then there one level with these wheel things rolling around.

Well, it's a little Gundam-esque...

Apparently, there are people living in orbital space colonies. They form a group called the Orbital Citizen's Community (OCC). For whatever reason, the OCC became more technologically advanced than the Earth, and decided they wanted to take over. After getting their butts whooped for awhile, the remaining nations on Earth formed the Earth Defense Aliance Force (EDAF). Desperate for manpower, the EDAF will take anyone who's willing to fight. Some of the most troublesome are put together in one squadron, codenamed Delta. You basically play as eight of the nine Delta pilots (I have no idea why you can't play as Pedro), and you're fighting the battle to beat the OCC. Actually, one of the gripes I have is the fact that the OCC are really nasty facists. One of the things the Gundam series have always done well, and to a lesser extent Ace Combat 4, was show that there are good and bad people on both sides. It's just unrealistic that every enemy ace you meet in AFDS is a nasty pr*ck... well, then again, so are half of the Deltas...

[Graham]

OK, I picked up Air Force Delta Strike (US ver) yesterday. Been playing it for a few hours now.

As somebody else mentioned earlier in this thread, the gameplay and missions are sorta similar to AC4, just somehow not quite as good. I can't quite put my finger on what makes AC4 gameplay better, but it just is IMO. Still, the AFDS gameplay is not bad overall, although the yaw controls on the planes I have flown so far seem very unresponsive (I set the control settings to Ace B', which is pretty much the same as AC4).

My biggest gripe with this game is that the dialog is the most annoying, purile, juvenile buncha horsecrap that I have ever had the misfortune of havinng to read plus the voice acting is awful.

Graham

[Druna Skass]

My biggest gripe with this game is that the dialog is the most annoying, purile, juvenile buncha horsecrap that I have ever had the misfortune of havinng to read plus the voice acting is awful.

Graham

I guess that's why you turn off the sound and pump up Information High.

[Graham]

My biggest gripe with this game is that the dialog is the most annoying, purile, juvenile buncha horsecrap that I have ever had the misfortune of havinng to read plus the voice acting is awful.

Graham

I guess that's why you turn off the sound and pump up Information High.

Yeah, but you've still got to read the annoying subtitles, which crawl onto the screen at a snail's pace. h

Heck I could read faster than the subs appear when I was 3 years old.

Graham

[Graham]

Gotta say I'm enjoyig AFDS a bit more now. Although some of the stages are very similar to those in AC4, there are also several very original stages as well.I currently stuck on the stage where you have to shoot all the big wheelie things before they escape off the map. Pretty challenging.

Graham

[Gaijin]

I guess I'll pick it up...could use a dose of fighter game to tide me over until AC5.

[Graham]

It's worth getting despite the annoying characters and inane between mission chatter and briefings.

Still stuck on the damn 'Roller Games' mission. Just can't kill all the wheelie things before some of them escape.

Graham

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

lol I seem to be the only person who disliked this game. I played the first 2 missions and returned it. I'll wait for AC5.

Rob

[mikeszekely]

It's worth getting despite the annoying characters and inane between mission chatter and briefings.

Still stuck on the damn 'Roller Games' mission. Just can't kill all the wheelie things before some of them escape.

Graham

Pick the fastest plane you have, fly to a wheelie thing, slow down, and approach from the front so the wheelie is on your left. Switch targets until the orange target (I guess it's the wheelie's bridge) is highlighted, then fire four missles right at it. Jet off as fast as you can to the next, and repeat. Don't waste time with any of the other targets.

Right now, I'm stuck on a mission where you have to fly into these underground bunkers. Problem is, the mission objective targets only show up when you're underground, so I find myself accidentally going back into bunkers I already took out, getting lost, and running out of time.

I'm working on a list of all the planes in the game. I have a fair number of them listed already, but it seems that there's an unlockable ninth pilot, with his/her own specific set of planes. Maybe I'll just post what I have sometime, and edit it as I unlock more planes.

[Druna Skass]

When is Ace Combat 5 suppoed to come out? If it's still off in next Fall, then I'll have to find this used, being the broke-ass bastard I am.

[David Hingtgen]

A big thing for me is accurately modeled aircraft (of course). For anyone who has the game, can you tell me how the F-4 and F-14 are? Basically, when you roll the plane--what does the game show for moving control surfaces? These two planes will instantly highlight how much (if any) research went into the flight models. AC4's Tomcat is so far off it bugs me every time I fly. The F-4 is unusual, but so highly documented and so old (40+ years) there's no excuse not to get it right. (And for the F-14, I need wings swept and unswept--AC4 is even more wrong when swept). Sigh, I hate it when things get worse--AC2 had overall more accurate control surfaces for most planes, AC4 actually made it worse on most. Tornado's the best. Ironically, the Tornado is really close to how the Tomcat SHOULD be.

Sigh(2)---a LOT of military planes do not have ailerons, and/or do not rely on them much. Nobody seems to notice that.

[Graham]

It's worth getting despite the annoying characters and inane between mission chatter and briefings.

Still stuck on the damn 'Roller Games' mission. Just can't kill all the wheelie things before some of them escape.

Graham

Pick the fastest plane you have, fly to a wheelie thing, slow down, and approach from the front so the wheelie is on your left. Switch targets until the orange target (I guess it's the wheelie's bridge) is highlighted, then fire four missles right at it. Jet off as fast as you can to the next, and repeat. Don't waste time with any of the other targets.

I've figured out by myself, that you just need to shoot the bridge of each wheelie.

I've been using the F-105, which is pretty fast. I have it armed with the air to surface missiles, which lock-on at longer range than regular missiles and seem to do more damage.

The problem is, I still can't kill all the wheelies before one of them makes it off the map, there are just too many of them. I don't know how many there are, I'm guessing at least 12 (4 groups of 3?).

Seems like some of the planes don't have afterburner. SU-25 Frogfoot and the F-8 or is it an A-7 (I always mix up the two)?

Also found that if you time the release right, the Frogfoot's FAE bombs can be quite effective against the wheelies.

Starting to get frustrated.

Graham

[mikeszekely]

It's worth getting despite the annoying characters and inane between mission chatter and briefings.

Still stuck on the damn 'Roller Games' mission. Just can't kill all the wheelie things before some of them escape.

Graham

Pick the fastest plane you have, fly to a wheelie thing, slow down, and approach from the front so the wheelie is on your left. Switch targets until the orange target (I guess it's the wheelie's bridge) is highlighted, then fire four missles right at it. Jet off as fast as you can to the next, and repeat. Don't waste time with any of the other targets.

I've figured out by myself, that you just need to shoot the bridge of each wheelie.

I've been using the F-105, which is pretty fast. I have it armed with the air to surface missiles, which lock-on at longer range than regular missiles and seem to do more damage.

The problem is, I still can't kill all the wheelies before one of them makes it off the map, there are just too many of them. I don't know how many there are, I'm guessing at least 12 (4 groups of 3?).

Seems like some of the planes don't have afterburner. SU-25 Frogfoot and the F-8 or is it an A-7 (I always mix up the two)?

Also found that if you time the release right, the Frogfoot's FAE bombs can be quite effective against the wheelies.

Starting to get frustrated.

Graham

Man, I wish I could remember what plane I used. What element(s) can you pick from? That might help me narrow it down. But let me tell you, if you think that mission is frustrating, wait until you get past it and do some really frustrating missions.

And David, sorry, I didn't pay attention to the F-4. I may not even have bothered to fly it. As for the F-14, I don't think I unlocked it. Personally, I wouldn't count on any high degree of realism that gave a stealth rating of 3 (highest in the game) to the Boeing X-32. (Not to mention that the X-32 turns much faster in AFDS than the F/A-22.)

[mikeszekely]

Okay, this will be the post for the official list of planes in Airforce Delta Strike. This is everything I have unlocked at the moment, and yes, I did use an Action Replay to unlock some that I shouldn't have yet. If you unlocked any planes that are not on this list, please send me a PM so I can update this post and give you credit.

As stated before, these are the names as they are written in the game. Any innaccuracies, blame Konami, not me. This is also the number order as they are found in the game, not necessarily best to worst or vice versa.

1. F-5E Tiger II

2. MiG-21bis Fishbed N

3. Su-20 Fitter C

4. X-29A

5. MiG-29SMT Fulcrum C

6. Su-27LL-UV(PS)

7. YF-17 Cobra

8.

9.

10. X-32A

11.

12. F/A-22 Raptor

13. Hunter FGA9

14.

15. Su-24M Fencer D

16. F5D-1 Skylancer

17. Jian-Ji 8 II M Finback B

18. F-20 Tigershark

19. HiMAT

20.

21. F/A-18C Hornet

22.

23.

24.

25. Su-35 Flanker E

26. YF-23A Black Widow II

27.

28.

29. Su-7BMbis Fitter A

30. F-106A Delta Dart

31. F-4E Phantom II

32. FC-1 Fighter China

33. MiG-23ML Flogger G

34.

35. X-31A

36. F-16C Block 50 Fighting Falcon

37. F-15C Eagle

38.

39.

40. S-37 Berkut

41.

42.

43. P-38L Lightning

44.

45.

46.

47.

48. Lightning F-6

49. Jian-Ji 6 Jin

50. YF-12A

51. F-104G Starfighter

52.

53.

54. MiG-27K Flogger J

55. F-111F

56.

57.

58. Su-37

59.

60.

61.

62. T-58VD Flagon B

63. Yak-38 Forger A

64.

65. Jian-Ji 7 MG

66. F-5A Freedom Fighter

67. A-5A Vigilante

68.

69. AV-8B Harrier II

70.

71. Yak-141 Freestyle

72. X-32 B

73. F/A-35B

74.

75.

76. F-105D Thunderchief

77. Su-25A Frogfoot

78.

79. A-10A Thunderbolt II

80. F-117A Nighthawk

81. Jaguar GR1

82.

83. Tornado GR1

84.

85.

86.

87. A-7B Corsair II

88. A-4M Skyhawk

89. Buccaneer S2D

90.

91.

92.

93. F-1

94.

95.

96.

97.

98.

99.

100.

101.

102.

103.

104.

105.

106.

107.

108.

109.

110.

111.

112.

113.

114.

115.

116.

117.

118. RF-4C Phantom II

119. P-3C

120. SH-3H Sea King

121. KA-52 Hokum B

122. Mi-35 Hind E

123. AC-130H Spectre

124. B-1B Lancer

125. B-2 Spirit

126. C-5B Galaxy

127. SR-71A Blackbird

128. U-2A

129. E-2C Hawkeye

130. E-3C Sentry

131. YAL-1 ABL

132. Tu-160 Blackjack

133. M-17 Mystic

134. A-50 Mainstay

[Macrosso]

got it from gamefaqs

1. F-5E Tiger II

2. MiG-21 bis "Fishbed N"

3. Su-20 "Fitter C"

4. X-29A

5. MiG-29SMT "Fulcrum C"

6. Su-27LL-UV(PS)

7. YF-17 Cobra

8. F-2A

9. MiG-1.44 MFI

10. X-32A

11. S-55 LFS

12. F/A-22 Raptor

13. Hunter FGA9

14. Su-17 "Fitter D"

15. Su-24M "Fencer D"

16. F5D-1 Skylancer

17. 8 (Jian-Ji 8IIM) "Finback B)

18. F-20 Tigershark

19. HiMAT

20. F-14D Tomcat

21. F/A-18C Hornet

22. Su-30MKI

23. 12 (Jian-Ji 12)

24. F-15E Strike Eagle

25. Su-35 "Flanker E"

26. YF-23 Black Widow II

27.

28.

29. Su-7BM bis "Fitter A"

30. F-106A Delta Dart

31. F-4E Phantom II

32. FC-1 (Fighter China)

33. MiG-23ML "Flogger G"

34. MiG-33 "Fulcrum"

35. X-31A

36. F-16C Block 50 Fighting Falcon

37. F-15C Eagle

38. Su-27SMK "Flanker B"

39. Eurofighter Typhoon

40. S-37 Berkut

41. F-100D Super Sabre

42. T6-1 (Modified Prototype)

43. P-38L Lightning

44. P-51D Mustang

45. Il-2M3 Shturmovik

46. Spitfire MK24

47. F-86L SabreJet

48. Lightning F6

49. (Jian-Ji 6 JIN

50. YF-12A

51. F-104G Starfighter

52. F-108 Rapier (Early Plan)

53. TSR2

54. MiG-27K "Flogger J"

55. F-111F

56. MiG-25PDS "Foxbat E"

57. Mig-31BM "Foxhound"

58. Su-37

59. F-15S/MTD Active

60.

61.

62. T-58VD "Flagon B"

63. Yak-38 "Forger A"

64. MiG-19PFM "Farmer"

65. (Jian-Ji 7 MG)

66. F-5A Freedom Fighter

67. A-5A Vigilante

68. (Jian-Ji "Finback A"

69. AV-8B Harrier II

70. SeaHarrier F/A2

71. Yak 141 "Freestyle"

72. X-32B

73. F/A-35B

74. MiG-17F "Fresco C"

75. Su-22M-4 "Fitter K"

76. F-105D Thundercheif

77. Su-25A "Frogfoot"

78. Yak-28L "Brewer B"

79. A-10A Thunderbolt II

80. F-117A Nighthawk

81. Jaguar GR1

82. F-16XL

83. Tornado GR1

84. F-15U Plus

85. X-44

86. F-101B VooDoo

87. A-7E Corsair II

88. A-4M Skyhawk

89. Buccaneer S2D

90. A-6E Intruder

91.

92. F4D-Skyray

93. F-1

94. Su-39 "FrogFoot"

95. Su-34

96. F/A-18E Super Hornet

97. Su-32FN

98. Tornado F3

99. Su-33 "Flanker D"

101.

102.

103.

104. Vic Viper

105. TwinBee

106. MX5000

107. Jerry Mouse

108. Falsion

109. Blue Thunder M-45

110. Manbou-J

111.

112. Super Fighter

113. Flint-Rock

114.

115. Aura-Wing

116.

117.

118. RF-4C Phantom II

119. P-3C

120. SH-3H Sea King

121. Ka-52 "Hokum B"

122. MI-35 "Hind E"

123. AC-130H Spectre

124. B-1B Lancer

125. B-2 Spirit

126. C-5B Galaxy

127. SR-71A Blackbird

128. U-2R

129. E-2C Hawkeye

130. E-3C Sentry

131. YAL-1 ABL

132. Tu-160 "BlackJack"

133. M-17 "Mystic"

134. A-50 "Mainstay"

[F-ZeroOne]

Nice to see the TSR-2 on the list...

...wait a minute...

...Vic Viper?! Twinbee?!

[Abombz!!]

The Vic Viper is in this game?!?!?!?! And TWIN BEE?!?!?!?!?!?!

Must buy!!! Even though I hated the Xbox AF Delta and the DC game was mildly underwhelming.

[Vostok 7]

Good lord look at that plane list!!!!!!!! I was only passively interested in it when I saw it (mostly because I was confusing it with Air Force Delta Storm) but now I'm getting that sucker.

There's alot of awesome planes on that list

Vostok 7

[David Hingtgen]

AFAIK, a lot of those planes aren't flyable though (or at least, would be pointless---what do you plan on doing with an E-3? ) The theory is that there's 130 *planes* in the game, not 130 planes you can fly as.

PS--Graham, it's the A-7 without an afterburner. And F-105's are fast because all planes of that era are fast.

Hey, a Jian-Ji 8 Finback---and a P-3. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmn. (Make your own mid-air-collision-forced-to-land-in-China joke here)

[renegadeleader1]

a point and a question.

First of all the story in AC4 isn't about you. Its about how a kids life is affected by a fighter pilot (yellow 13) you eventually shoot down in the second to the last mission. He is not Mobious 1 you are. The narration you get is from a letter the kid sent you at the end of the war.

Now as for AFDS does it have the vietnam era A-1 Skyraider?

[mikeszekely]

AFAIK, a lot of those planes aren't flyable though (or at least, would be pointless---what do you plan on doing with an E-3? ) The theory is that there's 130 *planes* in the game, not 130 planes you can fly as.

PS--Graham, it's the A-7 without an afterburner. And F-105's are fast because all planes of that era are fast.

Hey, a Jian-Ji 8 Finback---and a P-3. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmn. (Make your own mid-air-collision-forced-to-land-in-China joke here)

Right, there's 117 planes you can fly, over nine pilots.

[Macrosso]

http://www.geocities.com/gdi_master2001/AFDSP.html

plane pics

[Macrosso]

look at post above