Air Force Delta Strike

[mikeszekely]

Air combat shooters on the consoles have been, for the most part, love them or hate them. I've played and loved every version of Ace Combat since Air Combat. Lethal Skies (both of them) and that Top Gun game, though, have been complete crap, IMHO. (Oh, for the record, I never played Aero Wings or Aero Combat Elite Acadamy.)

The one series that's always been kind of noteable for it's mediocrity is Air Force Delta. I played through the Dreamcast version... it was okay. I played Air Force Delta Storm (Xbox)... meh. And now we have Air Force Delta Strike on the PS2.

So how is it? So far, I've found it to pretty similar to the first two... air combat that's not as good as Ace Combat's, but similar enough to be fun. Anyone who's played Ace Combat 4 will be able to get into the game pretty quickly, although I strongly reccomend creating a custom control setting that's a bit more similar to AC's. (It's like the guys at Konomi knew AC uses a good control scheme, but didn't want to look like they were copying it, so they came up with a control scheme so ridiculous that you'd want to change it anyway.) Like Ace Combat, there is supposed to be some underlying story here... but instead of being narrorated in mildy interesting cutscenes, it's told by irritating anime characters throughout the whole game... before missions, after missions, during missions... you'd think with all that storytelling, the story would make sense, right? Not really...

Where Air Force Delta really shines, though, is the ammount of aircraft Konami crammed into the game. Supposedly, there's around 130, including fighters, bombers, WWII era prop planes, prototypes, and a few fictional ones, including the Vic Viper from Gradius. Fictional craft aside, the ammount of aircraft in this game almost makes it the Gran Turismo of air combat games.

Having a lot of planes does come with disadvantages, though. You see, there are nine characters in the Delta Squadron (three in each element)... and each character starts with a different plane. As you play through missions, you'll usually be allowed to pick from from different members, and different missions are assigned to different elements. Each pilot has their own money, and each pilot has different planes he can buy and fly than the others, which is a little annoying at times (Moreso because the computer keeps seperate records for each character, so if you want to know how many enemy fighters you shot down, you have to add them up for each character...). Also, you don't start with much, and it's a long time before you even work up to an F-16. Expect to spend much of the early game flying foreign fighters from the 50's and 60's.

All-in-all, we don't have a lot of choices for air combat games on the PS2. While Air Force Delta Strike has it's flaws, it's a much better tide-me-over-til-Ace Combat 5 than any of the other air combat games on the PS2 since AC4. Plus, it's only $40.

[David Hingtgen]

I had no idea it had that many planes. All the screen shots focused on the same few again and again, I had figured it just had the wierdest selection of planes ever. So what's all in there that's cool? EE Lightning? F-8? Vampire? Me163? YF-23?

I've never really liked the AF Delta stuff, mainly due to AC being so cool. (I still play AC2, just to have a YF-23). AC3 sucked, fake planes everywhere, music sucked, etc. But AC4 is one of my all-time faves. Too bad there's still almost zilch for AC5 info, other than "it's coming this year".

If there's a lot of cool plane in AF Delta-Strike, I'll probably pick it up, as it's been a while since I've gotten a new fighter game. (I passed on Top Gun of course).

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I read in EGM who gave the game a 6/10 that it was overkill on radio chater. Too many conversations going on and crap. it looks a lot better than the previous incarnations who I always thought were good graphically but in terms of gameplay were def lacking. Lord british and vic viper are available although I do believe lord british is from lifeforce? Not sure. not sure if this game also has the F-14G hellcat. it was in the last afd but I never saw it. have any of you? The game might not be as good as ace combat 4...I am sure it isnt but I think it is a good holdover for ac5..

ac5 is set for later this year and the trailer for it SUCKED. What the hell. MAn what a waste of bandwidth. its on the official japanese site if you want to see it. It just i mean shoot it gets you excited but it just shows an e2 hawkeye in the backgroun midway and no other plane. I mean geez. Not even an Su-37 the flagship plane of the series? Bla. I think Ac5 will kick all kinds of ass as long as it has

-music from ac2 or the producers of it

-gameplay from 4

-selection of planes combined witih parts 2 and 4

- versus mode that doesnt make newbies virtually invincible as long as they tug on the stick and hionk the throttle all the way forward. grrrrrrr

Afd has some real interesting and weird looking planes. I have not played it yet sadly. compared to ac4 i did not like airforce delta on x box that much. even the on on dreamcast was subpar...loooked better but was reallkty lacking in game play and the missles werent worth crap.

[David Hingtgen]

Yup, never have I thought "why'd they even upload that?" after seeing the AC5 trailer. Even 0.4 secs of actual in-game footage would have been nice...

I just really hope they'll finally upgrade the Tomcat to a Super Tomcat. I mean, they've had a decade to do so---but I bet we get a Super Hornet instead.

(It's very simple to figure out most JP toy and model plane releases--it's whatever the US has stationed in Japan---we've never had Super Tomcats there, but the Black Knights were there a LONG time--thus you'll often find the Black Knights for models, etc---and lots of Hornet-C's, especially VFA-25--thus that's what we get). And now, we'll probably get Super Hornets, I'm betting on VFA-2-esque markings.

[Coota0]

Saw it on Xplay the other day, they said it was pretty good gameplay but the Anime Characters were annoying, also mentioned like 130 planes to fly. I thought it looked ok, again waiting for AC5. I figured I'd either pick up DetlaStrike or LOck on for my PC.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

if your hardcore get lock on dude! Man our PC MODERN JET sim market is freaking DEAD! DEAD I TELL YA!WTF! lock on maybe the last we get till like freaking falcon 5 comes out if that bastard hasnt been shelved yet. ZIf your casual gamer into planes get delta. If your casual leaning on hardcore and into something not as hard as falkcon but defniitely more challenging than JAnes USAF by all means get lock on, sniff...damn it i miss me my damn jet fighter sims.

[the white drew carey]

I liked the gameplay for AC4 but the cutscenes were extremely lame and boring (and the English voice actor needs to be shot in the head, and that's just to make him more lively! ). I felt the story for AC4 was so incredibly dull that they shouldn't have even bothered. Just let me buy planes, fly around and blow crap up. That's just what I needed.

I, too, have read that AFDelta Strike has a screwy control scheme and waaaaay uber-annoying characters, but I'm willing to bypass that if it looks cool and is reasonably fun to play.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

yea that dude in ac4 was way too damn somber. I forgot if he was mobious 1 or not. Hell it was the 2nd time ace combat had some kind of characer...te first 2 were just str8 up mercenaries. Thats what made part 2 the best oerall...sure 4 has the best graphics and gameplay but 2 had a feeeling and atmosphere that cant be replaced. W=hich reminds me...i wonder if afd has better music than ac2. that music KICKED.

[Coota0]

if your hardcore get lock on dude! Man our PC MODERN JET sim market is freaking DEAD! DEAD I TELL YA!WTF! lock on maybe the last we get till like freaking falcon 5 comes out if that bastard hasnt been shelved yet. ZIf your casual gamer into planes get delta. If your casual leaning on hardcore and into something not as hard as falkcon but defniitely more challenging than JAnes USAF by all means get lock on, sniff...damn it i miss me my damn jet fighter sims.

I know ecactly what you mean, every since EA quit making the Janes games there's nothing in the modern jet fighter or future fighter realm, I loved Janes USAF, shoot I even pull out Janes Fighter Anthology sometimes. Now you can either play Microsoft's WWII games or you play something that you have to have the NATOPS manual to play it. The Janes games had great mixture of realistic complexity and a simpleicty that didn't require a 3 inch manuel to hop in the cockpit and play. I'd always hoped that Janes would do a sim like USAF with Navy and Marine Corps aircraft. Has anyone tried Jet FIghter V?

[David Hingtgen]

Looking around, it seems like AFD's music is cr*p.

Also--I really liked AC4's story. Of course he was somber---his family, friends, and home were destroyed. Then everyone he befriended died, too. (Except the barkeep's daughter, she lived)

[the white drew carey]

What I want is a quality WWI Flight Sim. God, I love bi-planes.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I hear jetfire V left a lot to b dsrired...ur much better off with the last fo the Janese series. Honestly. I have jetfire 3 platinum and although its fun at rfirst, USAF provides much more of a fun experience man. USAF had good AI and a good selection with differnet flight characteristics...you cant just pull back on the stick and expect to looop around ur enemies ass no..but in jetfighter 3 thats what it feels like.

In terms of ace combat 4 the story was ok at first but if the dude was the main pilot character maybe i would have liked it more. but to be honest my fav cutscene has nothing to do with him. My fav cutscene is before the first mission when it shows the F-4 take of from the character. Man that plane rules. I wonder why they didnt use that kinda of cinema for the rest of the cut scenes.

[Graham]

Is this the same game as the newly released 'Air Force Delta - Blue Sky Knights', or are you talking about a different game?

I'm a big fan of the Ace Combat games (except # 3) and was considering picking up Blue Sky Knights to tide me over until AC5 is released.

I've been looking online for reviews of Blue Sky Knights the past few days, but haven't been able to find anything yet.

Confused.

Graham

[David Hingtgen]

I believe it is----I hate when companies use different names instead of just using numbers. Because then they start swapping and changing and mixing names all the time. Hard enough to keep track of the Legacy of Kain series...

It's also called Blue *Wing* Knights, and Deadly Skies III.

Edited February 6, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

god man 3 different names. that even got me confused with lethal skies! Grrr... ANyhoo Graham being that your an ac fan like us I am not sure if you woul like it. For that matter I suggest all ofg you who havent played airforce delta to rent it. I remember playing the one before it nad its complteley differnet than ace combat. Ace combat is well...for a console acton sim HEAVEN. The latest review gave it a 6/10 graham.

[Graham]

I believe it is----I hate when companies use different names instead of just using numbers. Because then they start swapping and changing and mixing names all the time. Hard enough to keep track of the Legacy of Kain series...

It's also called Blue *Wing* Knights, and Deadly Skies III.

Yup, you are correct, the Japanese release name is "Air Force Delta - Blue Wing Knights', not Blue Sky Knights, my mistake.

I was thinking of picking this game up, but might hold off now.

Does anybody know if this game features the Eurofighter Typhoon? (my favorite modern fighter).

Graham

[mikeszekely]

Why's everyone so hard on Ace Combat 3? Because of a few totally fictional planes, and the rest were at least loosely based on real ones? You guys gotta get past that, because Ace Combat 3 had some of the most original missions, like chasing the train and bombing the virus thingies.

As far as magazine/internet reviews go, you gotta remember that air combat games are one of those things that the average gamer (or the average reviewer) just doesn't get into. Basically, if you like Ace Combat, you'll get some enjoyment out of Air Force Delta Strike. You just gotta set up a custom control scheme similar to AC4, and then it plays strikingly similar, and yet somehow not as good.

You do learn to tune out the radio chatter during missions, but it gets old between missions, and it's really annoying to have that guy chew you out everytime you fail a mission. But I do have to give credit to Konomi for coming up with some of the most original missions since AC3. The mission I'm on now, for example, is tracking down and sinking enemy subs hiding inside ice flows. Sadly, for every cool mission you get to do, there's two or three dogfighting missions... which would be fine, if dogfighting was more like Ace Combat. For some reason in the Air Force Delta series, enemies tend to cut 180s and nail you while your wingmen just fly around like idiots...

Okay, now for cool planes, I can't say too much. Seems that there's 134 aircraft in the game, but not all are playable. The game counts a lot of helicopters, bombers, and AWACS aircraft in that 134, although I still feel confident to say that there's over 100 playable aircraft. I'm still fairly early into the game, I think, and I can tell you what I unlocked. I can only guess what the others are.

Anyway, here's what I got. I'm typing it exactly as it's listed in the game, so any discrepencies or unofficial code names, don't blame me, blame Konami.

F-5E Tiger II

MiG-21bis Fishbed N

Su-20 Fitter C

MiG-29SMT Fulcrum C

YF-17 Cobra

Su-24M Fencer D

F5D-1 Skylancer

Jian-Ji 8IIM Finback F

Su-7BMbis Fitter A

F-106 Delta Dart

FC-1 Figher China

P-38L Lightning

Lightning F6

T-58VD Flagon B

Yak-38 Forger A

A-5A Vigilante

F-105D Thunderchief

Su-25A Frogfoot

A-7E Corsair II

RF-4C Phantom II

P-3C

SH-3H Sea King

Ka-52 Hokum 8

Mi-35 Hind E

AC-130H Spectre

B-1B Lancer

B-2 Spirit

C-5B Galaxy

SR-71A Blackbird

U-2R

E-2C Hawkeye

E-3C Sentry

YAL-1 ABL

Tu-160 Blackjack

M-17 Mystic

A-50 Mainstay

Edited February 6, 2004 by mikeszekely

[mikeszekely]

I believe it is----I hate when companies use different names instead of just using numbers.  Because then they start swapping and changing and mixing names all the time.  Hard enough to keep track of the Legacy of Kain series...

It's also called Blue *Wing* Knights, and Deadly Skies III. 

Yup, you are correct, the Japanese release name is "Air Force Delta - Blue Wing Knights', not Blue Sky Knights, my mistake.

I was thinking of picking this game up, but might hold off now.

Does anybody know if this game features the Eurofighter Typhoon? (my favorite modern fighter).

Graham

Aside from what's on my list, the only aircraft I know for sure that's in the game but I haven't unlocked are the F-117, The X-32, the F-16XL, and if I assume from the cover of the game, the Berkut.

[Graham]

If you chose to fly a WWII plane, like the P-38 for example, do the missions automatically adjust so that the enemy planes are all WWII planes, or do you still have to fight against modern jets?

Graham

[mikeszekely]

If you chose to fly a WWII plane, like the P-38 for example, do the missions automatically adjust so that the enemy planes are all WWII planes, or do you still have to fight against modern jets?

Graham

Oh, you're still fighting against modern jets. The P-38 was slow, but very maneuverable. And they added rockets to it.

[Graham]

If you chose to fly a WWII plane, like the P-38 for example, do the missions automatically adjust so that the enemy planes are all WWII planes, or do you still have to fight against modern jets?

Graham

Oh, you're still fighting against modern jets. The P-38 was slow, but very maneuverable. And they added rockets to it.

Hmm....think I will give this a miss then.

Graham

[mikeszekely]

According to IGN, here's some of what I'm missing. Apparently, though, they're going to list more in another article, so it's still not all of it...

Jian-Ji 6 JIN

Su-20 Fitter C

Su-27SMK Franker B

A-10A Thunderbolt

A-4M Skyhawk

X-29A

F-20 Tigershark

MiG-19PFM Farmer

F-104G Starfighter

Jian-Ji 7 MG

Buccaneer S2D

Su-27LL-UV(PS)

HiMAT

MiG-23ML Flogger G

F-108 Rapier

F-5A Freedom Fighter

F-117A Nighthawk

A-6E Intruder

F-14D Tomcat

MiG-27K Flogger J

Jaguar GR1

Sea Vixen FAW2

MiG1.44 MF1

F/A-18C Hornet

X-31A

MiG-25PDS Foxbat

Jian-Ji 8 Finback A

F-16XL

F4D-1 Skyray

X-32A

Su-30MKI

F-16C Block 50 Fighting Falcon

Tornado GR1

On Konomi's AFDS website, they have pics that add the following-

F-2A

F-15E Strike Eagle

Jian-Ji 12

S-37A Berkut

Eurofighter Typhoon

IL-2M3 Sturmovik

Spitfire Mk-24

Su-37

TSR2

Yak-141 Freestyle

F-1

Su-34

They don't have pics or any info confirming or denying that these are in the game, but there's a disclaimer about Konami using the folling under license from Lockheed...

F-102 Delta Dagger

F-111F

F/A-22 Raptor

F/A-35B

X-44

YF-12A

Edited February 6, 2004 by mikeszekely

[mikeszekely]

I had no idea it had that many planes. All the screen shots focused on the same few again and again, I had figured it just had the wierdest selection of planes ever. So what's all in there that's cool? EE Lightning? F-8? Vampire? Me163? YF-23?

I've never really liked the AF Delta stuff, mainly due to AC being so cool. (I still play AC2, just to have a YF-23). AC3 sucked, fake planes everywhere, music sucked, etc. But AC4 is one of my all-time faves. Too bad there's still almost zilch for AC5 info, other than "it's coming this year".

If there's a lot of cool plane in AF Delta-Strike, I'll probably pick it up, as it's been a while since I've gotten a new fighter game. (I passed on Top Gun of course).

I don't want you to run out to the store too fast, David, but I found this pic on the AFDS website...

[Coota0]

$39.75 at Walmart

Can't rent it at blockbuster.

Gamestop $34.99 Used.

Hmm...all those planes is it worth it?

[Graham]

$39.75 at Walmart

Can't rent it at blockbuster.

Gamestop $34.99 Used.

Hmm...all those planes is it worth it?

I wonder if the radio chatter will be in English on the Japanese version, as all I can buy out here is the Japanese version.

I might buy this game purely for the English Electric Lightning, Tornado and the Eurofighter Typhoon, as I'm more a fan of British planes than I am of US planes.

Not sure I like the funky color schemes though, sorta reminds me of the first Ace Combat game.

Graham

[Druna Skass]

Why's everyone so hard on Ace Combat 3?  Because of a few totally fictional planes, and the rest were at least loosely based on real ones?  You guys gotta get past that, because Ace Combat 3 had some of the most original missions, like chasing the train and bombing the virus thingies.

Yeah really...

Personaly I liked seeing the concept planes in Ace Combat 3, I've always thought the R-103 Dephinus III was one of the most bad-ass designs I've seen. I though the music was pretty cool too. Sure it's game play is no match for Ace Combat 04 or even Ace Combat 2's but I though all the other factors made up for that. The only real gripes I have with it are those damned missions where you can only use the Blackbird ("turning" is not in that thing's vocabulary), and it's straight up vauge on what you need to do to get that A ranking.

I've never really liked those more realistic PC simulators all that much. I hated haveing to worry about blacking out, and what not. All I want is a flight sim where all I need to do is blow people up, lots of people. And the only thing I need to worry about is the other's guy's missiles.

Edited February 6, 2004 by Druna Skass

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Mnost of us are hard on ac3 since the US version that most of us got was spliced like hell from a 3cd into a 1disc with basically no story background whatsoever and the fact that it was futuristic. Which wasnt bad at all but i hated the HUD. meh. gameplay was beter than AC2 but the music definitely suffered as well as the overall feel. My friend who had the japanese vefsion gave it tons of praise and he said the US one notably sucked when we played it. I dont blame him it is boring. Ac2 and 4 are teh best and had the best storylines...and gameplay plus they had the F-14. always a plus. My fav mission in 3 was the mock dogfight against the F15S. of course they dont tell u why u fight the bastard unlke in japan but it would have been real nice. Basically japan had the better version while we got the real sucky version.

IN terms of afd strike it seems a lot better from what i am hearinfg than the previous 2 in the series. the 1st was well boring nad linear and the 2nd couldnt hold a candle to ac4. like how u get so many planes. Thundercheif skyhawk and phantom HELL YEA! The british and russian planes and especially the Yf23 are a GREAT touch.

I wonder if the story is good but form what mike said I will probably hate the enemy ai. and the missles too. chances are theyt suck like always in airforce delta.

Hey David...was the Yf23 superior in terms of diogfighting compared to teh F22\? I have a craving for that plane more now. Yf23 RULES. especially in Ac2.

[Druna Skass]

mikeszekely...

What would you rank this out of 10 with 10 being the highest?

Tell us about some of the missions.

Edited February 6, 2004 by Druna Skass

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

ys and the handling of osme of th planes. Is it more realistic than ace combat 4? (ie like the F-4 not being able to turn worth crap and the F-16 being able to turn ona dime)

[91WhiskeyM6]

Console games suck at fighter simulation.

The best flight simulators of all time from my POV? DID's EF-2000 and Total Air War F-22 Raptor

Runner up? Janes ATF.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

yea but those are the PC based hardcore type sims in the ategory with Falcon and Flanker. This thread was mainly for action based console games. The ones about kicking and hauling ass in midair without giving a damn about wavepoints, stealth, g loading and physics.

Ef2000 and Total air war are great sims. I enjoyed both but total air war is the better of the 2 since there is so much to do. My runners up would be Janes USAF. Atf was nice but I prefer USAF due to better feel and graphics engine as well as having a vietnam campaign and having so mnany planes attacking all at once in the red flag simulations missions.

[David Hingtgen]

My main AC physics gripes are:

Acceleration is too fast, speed has no effect on turning, bank angle has no effect on stall speed, and you don't lose energy in a turn. Fix those, and you'd still have a nice arcadey game, but a lot more realistic--mainly, it'd really separate the planes. You'd quickly see the difference between the F-14/15/16/18 if you applied those, as opposed to it pretty much being only a visual difference in AC4.

Shin---the YF-23 is basically superior to the YF-22 in every possible way, except low-speed high-alpha flight. It was most obviously superior in speed, acceleration, range, and stealthiness. YF-22 wasn't even close in those categories. For the ATF competition, the Air Force said the two most important things were speed and stealth, and the least important thing was low-speed high-alpha flight. So of course, the -22 was picked.

Note: Air Force wanted low-speed high-alpha to equal the F-16's. The YF-23 did. The YF-22's is even better, probably matching the F-18. But both are overall more manueverable than the 16/18. The YF-22 is often claimed to be notably more manueverable than the -23, but neither's specs have been declassified, and the YF-23 DOES have a lifting-body centre-section, much like an F-14, thus giving it better high-alpha agility than it would otherwise appear. So the -23 may actually be pretty darn close to the -22 in overall manueverability. (plus the fact that it has larger control surfaces, and more of them---many things about the -23 are still classified, while -22's are not---basically, it performed better than expected, and they don't want people to know just how darn good it is, especially its speed)

Edited February 6, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Graham]

Maybe someday they'll clear the -22 to use its vectoring like MiG or Sukhoi do, but not now, and not for a while. (Explanation available, but this post is already long)

I'd love to know why the F-22 is not cleared to use it's thrust vecoring yet. First I've heard of it.

Graham

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

so ina close in knife fight the F22 is slightly superior? Judging form what I remember of hihg Aoa low speed flight. Is that what you meant? Man dude I like the Yf23 even more now. NMot only big but awesome and a knifefighter interceptor at that,. i am surprised the Navy didnt get it to replace the F-14 and develop it into the next generation navy fighter instead of the super hornet.

I agree with the physics thing...it wont really show as much in the game until you take on your friends in versus mode...when its clear you can whup their ass but they still dodge you due to anime magfic like controls where they tug on the stick all they want and dont black out or stall out. Which pisses me off since to dodge a missle in ac all you do is light the burner and turn like there is no tomorrow. or simply holding R1 nad bankingn right or left and pulling back. which to me suycks. Se in aerowings 2 at least it was realistic enough to show a definite skill thing between you and your friends...put each of you in an F4 and whoever sucks,.it will definitely show since a newbie would more than likely think it can turn good but then end up stalling out. Gotta usd that things speed i tells ya.

For Ac4 i did not like how the F4 could be a turning fighter......Sure I use all my energy managemenyt and zoom techniques to GREAT devasstating affects in that game but turning? man dude I think the way the F4 in the first mission of ace combat 4 is the ideaolized version of the kind of F-4 the pilots at the start of Vietnam wanted. Thin turns to damn well in that game...i mean yea its aradey but they coujld at least mimic how its real life counterpart cant turn ya know that well.

that reminds me i think mike mentioned the F-8 being in afd. Kick ass i love the crusader!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

wait me 2...thjey always advertise the F-22 with thrust vectoring...is it simply so good at manuevering knife in alone that it wont need it? I know in total air war it was an option since it was supposedly good enough to knife fight real well in.