Big s Posted January 18 Posted January 18 4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: IMO, having Brutus around for the finale would've been a mistake. His role in the story was to be a foil/rival to Jod, a usurper who Jod could dethrone right before the end of the story to properly assert his Villain Credentials from the first episode. If Brutus had still been alive, he'd have been at loggerheads with Jod the entire final episode and detracted from Jod's intended role as the show's Big Bad. I just don’t think Jod was a big bad at all. He came off more of a space nanny that was just using the kids to get to the gold. The werewolf guy seemed more like a bad guy. The ending unfortunately suffered from being too dull. And really could’ve used some real tension brought in by the werewolf. The characters left were just kinda whatever. Sure there was a bit of action on the side, but it just felt like the main bit of it was going nowhere and in the end actually went nowhere. I get that it’s a kids show, and because of that I wasn’t expecting any blood or anything or a high body count or even any deat at all, just kinda needed a stronger ending that actually felt like an ending. Maybe something more to root for. And I wasn’t waiting for the end credit scene to tease a second season, just something to finish this one. Instead it just ended. It was a pretty ending, but overall real letdown unfortunately.
Seto Kaiba Posted January 18 Posted January 18 2 hours ago, Big s said: I just don’t think Jod was a big bad at all. He came off more of a space nanny that was just using the kids to get to the gold. The werewolf guy seemed more like a bad guy. A character doesn't need to the most overtly evil or violent or whatever to be the Big Bad... they just have to be the principal antagonist who's pulling the strings behind most of the conflict in the story. Jod may not be the most overtly violent or threatening character, but he's absolutely the one manipulating events and people to fulfill his desire to pillage the legendary treasure planet the kids call home. He protects the kids because he needs them to find out how to reach At Attin, and the minute he can get there without them they're betrayed, taken prisoner, terrorized into compliance, etc. so he can rob their homeworld. Brutus may be more overtly threatening in a physical sense, but he's not the driving force behind the show's conflict. He's out of scope for fairly half the story, and he's only really reacting to Jod's escape and then Jod's attempts to manipulate his crew until he ends up dead at Jod's hands. He exists mainly to justify why Jod has to travel with the kids on the Onyx Cinder and so that Jod has someone to kill to reestablish his villainous credentials towards the end.
Big s Posted January 18 Posted January 18 42 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said: A character doesn't need to the most overtly evil or violent or whatever to be the Big Bad... they just have to be the principal antagonist who's pulling the strings behind most of the conflict in the story. Jod may not be the most overtly violent or threatening character, but he's absolutely the one manipulating events and people to fulfill his desire to pillage the legendary treasure planet the kids call home. He protects the kids because he needs them to find out how to reach At Attin, and the minute he can get there without them they're betrayed, taken prisoner, terrorized into compliance, etc. so he can rob their homeworld. Brutus may be more overtly threatening in a physical sense, but he's not the driving force behind the show's conflict. He's out of scope for fairly half the story, and he's only really reacting to Jod's escape and then Jod's attempts to manipulate his crew until he ends up dead at Jod's hands. He exists mainly to justify why Jod has to travel with the kids on the Onyx Cinder and so that Jod has someone to kill to reestablish his villainous credentials towards the end. Unfortunately it made for a dull ending
Dynaman Posted January 18 Posted January 18 The ending was "meh". The problem, as others have mentioned, is that there was no tension. We KNEW the kids were not going to get hurt and the planet would be free of pirates. Having Werewolf guy around for the final episode could have given it some kind of tension - would Jod (just noticed how close that is to Jude...) be killed is something I would believe could have happened.
Big s Posted January 18 Posted January 18 4 hours ago, Dynaman said: The ending was "meh". The problem, as others have mentioned, is that there was no tension. We KNEW the kids were not going to get hurt and the planet would be free of pirates. Having Werewolf guy around for the final episode could have given it some kind of tension - would Jod (just noticed how close that is to Jude...) be killed is something I would believe could have happened. That’s basically my thing here. It could’ve even given us a really cool swashbuckling pirate fight on the edge of a ship going down in flames or something. We basically just got a heist story ending without the ending
TangledThorns Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Finished the last episode and it didn't give me confidence there will be a second season. Definitely deserved more for a finale. Oh well. At least we have the second season of Andor coming soon. Hope it doesn't suck. lol.
Big s Posted January 19 Posted January 19 3 hours ago, TangledThorns said: Finished the last episode and it didn't give me confidence there will be a second season. Definitely deserved more for a finale. Oh well. At least we have the second season of Andor coming soon. Hope it doesn't suck. lol. Disney has a really bad problem with conclusions. I have a bad feeling about this one ending well enough.
Seto Kaiba Posted January 19 Posted January 19 7 hours ago, Big s said: That’s basically my thing here. It could’ve even given us a really cool swashbuckling pirate fight on the edge of a ship going down in flames or something. We basically just got a heist story ending without the ending Eh... that'd be pretty out-of-character for the space pirates in Star Wars. As odd as it sounds for what is, after all, a space fantasy series... the space pirates in Star Wars are a lot more grounded and realistic than Hollywood's standard silver screen swashbucklers. Like Hondo Ohnaka's and Gorian Shard's, the depiction Jod Ja Nawood's pirate crew owes far more to modern Somali pirates than it does to the likes of Jack Sparrow or the many fictional versions of Blackbeard. These aren't "dramatic sword fight" pirates, these are "shoot unarmed people and take their sh*t" pirates... maybe "capture you alive and hold you for ransom" pirates if you're lucky enough to be a VIP. Having Jod fight Brutus to the death at the end of the series would've been more action-friendly, but it wouldn't have meshed with the story or the tone of the series. It probably wouldn't have been much of a fight either, since if Jod hadn't killed Brutus the crew would've been loyal to Brutus and easily overpowered Jod.
Big s Posted January 19 Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said: Having Jod fight Brutus to the death at the end of the series would've been more action-friendly, but it wouldn't have meshed with the story or the tone of the series. It probably wouldn't have been much of a fight either, since if Jod hadn't killed Brutus the crew would've been loyal to Brutus and easily overpowered Jod. I think it could’ve fit fine. And it would’ve given a more interesting reason for Jod to have had a lightsaber. They could’ve had the crew too busy fighting off those x-wings. It really was just a suggestion of something far more interesting than what we got. Which was a total letdown that didn’t mesh well with the story
Dynaman Posted January 19 Posted January 19 7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: Having Jod fight Brutus to the death at the end of the series would've been more action-friendly, but it wouldn't have meshed with the story or the tone of the series. It probably wouldn't have been much of a fight either, since if Jod hadn't killed Brutus the crew would've been loyal to Brutus and easily overpowered Jod. Jod has proven his ability to talk his way out of most anything and the lame way Brutus was eliminated was certainly no better then anything they could have done in a final episode. Talking the crew into letting him fight Brutus for command would have tied in nicely with the "rules" the robot was spouting in an earlier episode.
jvmacross Posted January 19 Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Dynaman said: Jod has proven his ability to talk his way out of most anything and the lame way Brutus was eliminated was certainly no better then anything they could have done in a final episode. Talking the crew into letting him fight Brutus for command would have tied in nicely with the "rules" the robot was spouting in an earlier episode. Maybe that scene was purposefully done to mirror a certain event involving another "scoundrel" whose original action was to shoot first....but has since been changed several times to the disdain of SW fans....unfortunately, this time around, Space Jack Sparrow's only purpose for killing Capt Wolfie was merely a plot device to keep the "youngsters" watching this "kid show" guessing if he was good or bad...which by the end no one cared.... Remember, this pointless series was a patchwork of stolen concepts, ideas and scenes from several movies, but also utilizing several things from it's own IP... Based on the "numbers", there is no way it would make sense for Disney to greenlight a S2, even if they clearly ended it with the intent for more....the reason they probably haven't announced a cancelation of a Season 2 is purely due to the optics of doing so...another back to back failure is embarrassing, no need to bring any attentionto it...especially considering there was less interest in Skellington Crew than The Acolyte.... Personally, I have no need for another pointless adventure with Space Jack Sparrow....aka Jedi Hondo!....
Roy Focker Posted January 19 Posted January 19 If anyone was unsatisfied by the ending remember this was a show about kid characters. They would have to be the ones to save the day. Because they are kids it isn't going to involve that much violence. Nor could they have Jude have a change of heart and fight his old crew with a light saber as it would have made him the more of hero than the kids.
Dynaman Posted January 19 Posted January 19 1 hour ago, jvmacross said: especially considering there was less interest in Skellington Crew than The Acolyte.... Skellington Crew! THAT is a show I would be interested in seeing!
TangledThorns Posted January 19 Posted January 19 I'm hoping we get to see more of SM-33 at least in one of the other planned series or movies.
Seto Kaiba Posted January 19 Posted January 19 (edited) 7 hours ago, Dynaman said: Jod has proven his ability to talk his way out of most anything and the lame way Brutus was eliminated was certainly no better then anything they could have done in a final episode. Talking the crew into letting him fight Brutus for command would have tied in nicely with the "rules" the robot was spouting in an earlier episode. Eh... maybe. Personally, I think that the way the writers handled Jod regaining command of his pirate crew was a good fit for how they'd developed the character previously. Jod's not much of a fighter. He is, however, a talker. A conman. He's got a lot of charisma and he's good at persuasive speaking, so he bluffs his way out of trouble whenever he can. If he got into a straight fight with Brutus he'd probably lose and die, but he's able to talk his way into a stay of execution with the promise of access to At Attin and then rules lawyers his way back into command by killing Brutus in "single combat" after someone else had already incapacitated him. He's also so used to talking his way out of trouble that he's completely unprepared for someone else to start rules-lawyering too... which is how the kids and SM-33 get the drop on him when they steal the Onyx Cinder back. A big fight during the show's climax would've stolen focus from the main characters (the kids) though, and with the villain's plan coming together having Jod and Brutus duke it out would've distracted from Jod's master plan that the kids were trying to stop. An Entertainment Weekly interview with the showrunners a few days back definitely bears out the idea that Skeleton Crew's viewership mainly suffered as a result of The Acolyte being its predecessor. Like Andor, it gained rather than lost viewers as the series went on which augurs well for prospects of a second season. Edited January 19 by Seto Kaiba
jvmacross Posted January 19 Posted January 19 2 hours ago, TangledThorns said: I'm hoping we get to see more of SM-33 at least in one of the other planned series or movies. Smee is basically K2SO....but speaks in pirate....making Smee a different and refreshing droid!!
jvmacross Posted January 19 Posted January 19 14 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said: Jod's not much of a fighter. He is, however, a talker. A conman. He's got a lot of charisma and he's good at persuasive speaking, so he bluffs his way out of trouble whenever he can. Again....a Han Solo ripoff.... Perhaps Pirate Solo can talk his way into a second season?
Dynaman Posted January 19 Posted January 19 23 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said: Eh... maybe. Personally, I think that the way the writers handled Jod regaining command of his pirate crew was a good fit for how they'd developed the character previously. Jod's not much of a fighter. He is, however, a talker. A conman. Whenever the plot needed him to be a decent fighter (with force abilities no less) he was however.
TangledThorns Posted January 19 Posted January 19 14 minutes ago, jvmacross said: Smee is basically K2SO....but speaks in pirate....making Smee a different and refreshing droid!! Yeah but K2SO doesn't have a cute little critter living in one of its "aye" sockets. Aye?
jvmacross Posted January 19 Posted January 19 43 minutes ago, TangledThorns said: Yeah but K2SO doesn't have a cute little critter living in one of its "aye" sockets. Aye? Cute? NOPE....the bilgerat looks quite nightmarish....
Seto Kaiba Posted January 19 Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Dynaman said: Whenever the plot needed him to be a decent fighter (with force abilities no less) he was however. Who does he actually fight though? He sucker-punches that one guy while escaping from the stockade at Port Borgo, he buys his way out of trouble on At Achran, he outwits a mall cop or two at that day spa, bullies some children half his size, and then struggles with two out-of-shape desk jockets on At Attin.
Big s Posted January 20 Posted January 20 8 hours ago, Roy Focker said: If anyone was unsatisfied by the ending remember this was a show about kid characters. They would have to be the ones to save the day. Because they are kids it isn't going to involve that much violence. Nor could they have Jude have a change of heart and fight his old crew with a light saber as it would have made him the more of hero than the kids. There’s ways they could’ve had an end episode that was more exciting without necessarily being anymore violent than the episode right before it. Jod just pops a werewolf there. That basically kills the non violence of the show argument right there in the previous episode. He spaced a guy in the first few minutes of the first episode and those weren’t the only deaths. And again, I’m not looking for a bloodbath or anything near that, just something more for this show. They could also have had an ending episode planned to where Jod not only had a cool scene, while also having the kids somehow take a big focus. They also could’ve written the parents as far less mentally deficient, this was absolutely overkill. It just all would’ve taken a little creative writing instead of the lame final episode where they forgot to end the show. I get the feeling that the true ending if it were slightly more realistic would’ve ended up with the children of the planet all taking over easily since the parents were so absolutely useless and non functional that their society would devolve into exactly what that other At planet turned into. 9 hours ago, jvmacross said: Based on the "numbers", there is no way it would make sense for Disney to greenlight a S2, even if they clearly ended it with the intent for more....the reason they probably haven't announced a cancelation of a Season 2 is purely due to the optics of doing so...another back to back failure is embarrassing, no need to bring any attentionto it...especially considering there was less interest in Skellington Crew than The Acolyte.... I don’t know if Disney even cares that much about the numbers anymore. The Acolyte may have had better numbers and didn’t get renewed, but then again cost quite a bit more to make. Andor had pretty bad views, but still got the green light for a second season. I think Disney may be hoping that word of mouth overtime would make the show successful enough to bring in more viewers, but fumbling the last episode as badly as they did definitely hurt the show’s reputation. Now it went from the only good thing Disney has made from the Star Wars franchise in the last couple years to being known as the show that’s just “not as bad as the other Star Wars shows”
Thom Posted January 20 Posted January 20 It wasn't bad. Was it perfect? No. And yes, it felt rushed and got a little chopped at the end, but it was not a bad ending. As for Solo-rippoffs, there are any number of movies with the conman-trope.
jvmacross Posted January 20 Posted January 20 2 hours ago, Big s said: I don’t know if Disney even cares that much about the numbers anymore. The Acolyte may have had better numbers and didn’t get renewed, but then again cost quite a bit more to make. Andor had pretty bad views, but still got the green light for a second season. I think Disney may be hoping that word of mouth overtime would make the show successful enough to bring in more viewers, but fumbling the last episode as badly as they did definitely hurt the show’s reputation. Now it went from the only good thing Disney has made from the Star Wars franchise in the last couple years to being known as the show that’s just “not as bad as the other Star Wars shows” Oh yeah, they care....they would have been touting their success if the viewing "numbers" were something they could brag about....sadly they are worse than their last canceled show....
jvmacross Posted January 20 Posted January 20 39 minutes ago, Thom said: As for Solo-rippoffs, there are any number of movies with the conman-trope. The point is now SW is borrowing from itself.....this show was literally a cut-and-paste story from start to finish.....it'd probably be more entertaining than the series itself to go through it and match the scenes to what movie it was ripped-off from...LOL
Seto Kaiba Posted January 20 Posted January 20 2 hours ago, Big s said: I don’t know if Disney even cares that much about the numbers anymore. The Acolyte may have had better numbers and didn’t get renewed, but then again cost quite a bit more to make. Andor had pretty bad views, but still got the green light for a second season. Based on recent comments by the Skeleton Crew showrunners, Disney is looking beyond just the absolute viewership in terms of the total minutes watched when assessing the performance of these shows. They suggested that the trend in individual viewership - whether the show is gaining or losing viewers across its release period - when determining whether the series is successful or not. They noted that it's encouraging that Skeleton Crew steadily gained viewers across its run as Andor did. That may get it its second season if the showrunners can sell the studio on the new storyline.
jvmacross Posted January 20 Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said: Based on recent comments by the Skeleton Crew showrunners, Disney is looking beyond just the absolute viewership in terms of the total minutes watched when assessing the performance of these shows. They suggested that the trend in individual viewership - whether the show is gaining or losing viewers across its release period - when determining whether the series is successful or not. They noted that it's encouraging that Skeleton Crew steadily gained viewers across its run as Andor did. That may get it its second season if the showrunners can sell the studio on the new storyline. Nah.....Disney is trying to come up with creative ways to try to convince itself that their shows are what their subscribers want....these alt-facts may work on the weak-minded uber fans, but I doubt their advertisers are going to be OK with paying top streaming show dollars for stuff no one is watching.....and as far as I can tell, Disney is still a profits-based company beholden to its investors who expect higher performance for the best returns...weak ad revenue isn't compatible with high investment returns...but that's exactly the situation they will be in if they continue with pointless, safe series like Jedi Hondo's Adventures in Space....
jenius Posted January 20 Posted January 20 I guess that depends on how many people have plans that include ads. For the people who don't have ads, they need to make sure they have compelling content so they keep their subscriptions so there would be lots of metrics used to figure that out. I don't understand the criticism about SW borrowing from itself or anywhere else, it was always borrowed elements. Your 'didn't like it' vote has been registered though.
Big s Posted January 20 Posted January 20 I think a lot of the copying was more of a paying homage kinda thing, but I don’t know exactly what show or movie they were trying to copy from by not having an ending. There’s been a few, but nothing that’s really memorable since most of those were mistakes. Maybe it was Blood Debts, but at least that one lets you know in an awkwardly immediate way how it ended and what happened after in what has become the most epic ending for a movie ever for its quick wrap up. Now that I think about it, Blood Debts is the exact opposite, so that can’t be. It was extremely informative in like ten seconds of footage
Seto Kaiba Posted January 20 Posted January 20 Nah, I wouldn't even call it "copying". Star Wars is right up there with Gundam as a franchise that obsessively follows a formula set down by its earliest installments, and woe betide anyone who tries to deviate from it. It's not that they're copying, they just only know how to write one kind of Star Wars-Approved rogueish character. 🤣
Thom Posted January 20 Posted January 20 10 hours ago, jvmacross said: The point is now SW is borrowing from itself.....this show was literally a cut-and-paste story from start to finish.....it'd probably be more entertaining than the series itself to go through it and match the scenes to what movie it was ripped-off from...LOL Star Wars A New Hope was basically a 'cut-and-paste story' from Akira Kurosawa, a Western and others shows, so I don't understand how this is a criticism. You can take several examples of movies from the same genre (and even beyond) and find similar plot points used to help drive the story all over the place. Everyone does it. This is not a valid criticism. Bad acting, bad direction, a story without any nuance or risks, sure those are. A show that is boring that puts the viewer to sleep? Sure. A scene with guy doing a useless spin in the middle of a blaster fight (you know what I mean?) oh hell yeah! But plots points? No.
jvmacross Posted January 20 Posted January 20 3 minutes ago, Thom said: Star Wars A New Hope was basically a 'cut-and-paste story' from Akira Kurosawa, a Western and others shows, so I don't understand how this is a criticism. You can take several examples of movies from the same genre (and even beyond) and find similar plot points used to help drive the story all over the place. Everyone does it. This is not a valid criticism. Bad acting, bad direction, a story without any nuance or risks, sure those are. A show that is boring that puts the viewer to sleep? Sure. A scene with guy doing a useless spin in the middle of a blaster fight (you know what I mean?) oh hell yeah! But plots points? No. Guess you don't get it...although it's right there in the first sentence you quoted...so not sure how to make it any less vague for you...it's valid in the context I am referring to not in the way you are trying to spin it....
jvmacross Posted January 20 Posted January 20 Skellington Crew will eventually be forgotten and/or re-evaluated for exactly what it was (already starting to see the good-will erode on-line)....another waste of time for subscribers and money for D+...right now people were so disillusioned with The Acolyte that it is clouding their judgement on the latest series.....had it come directly after a much better show like The Mandalorian S1 or Andor, the expectations would have been higher as has been demonstrated in the past....right now it is getting some good vibes due to how bad the previous show was and not due to it being anything ground-breaking or contributing anything to a sustaining future for the IP....it's merely a soft and safe reset for the IP at best....was it needed....probably, but it was like placing a bandaid on a severe stab wound...Hopefully if Andor does not dissapoint, Skellington Crew will go off into obscurity and be forgotten or another show no one wants to bring up again...
jenius Posted January 20 Posted January 20 Why do you keep repeating yourself? Got it, you don't like it. You're not adding anything new.
Big s Posted January 20 Posted January 20 1 hour ago, jvmacross said: Skellington Crew will eventually be forgotten and/or re-evaluated for exactly what it was (already starting to see the good-will erode on-line)....another waste of time for subscribers and money for D+...right now people were so disillusioned with The Acolyte that it is clouding their judgement on the latest series.....had it come directly after a much better show like The Mandalorian S1 or Andor, the expectations would have been higher as has been demonstrated in the past....right now it is getting some good vibes due to how bad the previous show was and not due to it being anything ground-breaking or contributing anything to a sustaining future for the IP....it's merely a soft and safe reset for the IP at best....was it needed....probably, but it was like placing a bandaid on a severe stab wound...Hopefully if Andor does not dissapoint, Skellington Crew will go off into obscurity and be forgotten or another show no one wants to bring up again... I think that the acolyte definitely harmed this shows reputation, but with the few viewers it had are mostly complaining about how it ended is doing even more harm and it may not get those extra over time views due to poor word of mouth. It’s sorta like the problem people had with game of thrones. Not a show I was into, but people loved it more a more as it went on til whatever went south in the last season or so. Now all I hear are complaints about how poor the show was. I guess the next show did alright for a while, but I hear the viewers are dipping there as well and didn’t seem to like how it’s going for whatever reason. But the big difference is that even though they may be in a similar situation, game of thrones still has a much much higher viewership than Star wars in the modern era and probably will bounce back. Star Wars is just constantly flopping at this point due to poor writing. if this show had just stuck the landing, it could’ve been the show to bring back interest in the galaxy far far away. Instead it’s like you said, totally forgettable and mediocre overall.
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