Drones and Booster?

[Nemus]

I was wondering, do you think boosters or drones used to increase thrust are more effective in terms of actual performance?

I know it seems strange to say, but they seem heavy, increasing the weight so much, doesn't it negatively affect the thrust/weight ratio too much?

From what you saw in the anime, did the planes with boosters or drones attached actually have a big gain in acceleration and dogfighting ability?

[Seto Kaiba]

41 minutes ago, Nemus said:

I was wondering, do you think boosters or drones used to increase thrust are more effective in terms of actual performance?

I don't think there's one answer that covers all conditions there.

Booster rockets do technically increase the maximum thrust a Valkyrie can produce, but that's not really the point of them.

1st, 2nd, and 3rd Generation Variable Fighters used booster rockets not to increase their maximum thrust but to extend their operating time in space.  Earth's initial thermonuclear reaction turbine engine design was incredibly efficient in atmosphere but had very poor propellant efficiency in space.  Many of those early designs were also quite small, so their internal fuel tanks did not hold much.  This shortcoming was addressed via the introduction of the FAST Pack (known by various configuration-specific nicknames like the "Super Pack", "Strike Pack", etc.).  By adding external tanks that greatly increased the amount of fuel the Valkyrie could carry and adding booster rockets to reduce the need to use main engine thrust in maneuvering, the maximum operating time these Valkyries had in space flight was greatly extended.  Weapons were added to the boosters and fuel tanks as well, to improve their tactical utility.

The 4th and 5th Generations of Variable Fighter introduced new engine technologies that were far more fuel efficient and powerful.  Initially, this meant that booster rockets and large external fuel tanks were no longer necessary to achieve satisfactory operating times in space flight and Valkyries could be stealthier without that extra equipment.  Then a new possibility presented itself: the now-unnecessary booster rockets could be used to offset the mass of large amounts of additional armor and weaponry.  The concept of the FAST Pack changed from extending operating time in space to maximizing armor and armament with the least possible degradation to acceleration and maneuverability.

 

The original case of adding a drone to a Valkyrie to enhance its performance was the VF-0's improvised Special Attack specification from Macross Zero.  A stripped-down QF-2200 Ghost was used as a booster and the significant increase in thrust was enough to improve the VF-0's maneuverability in a dogfight while also extending its very limited range.  

The idea of attaching a drone to a Valkyrie as a performance enhancement made a bit of a comeback in the late 2050s and 2060s, but its usefulness is debatable.  The VF-27 had a modified QF-5100D that it used as a booster system and potentially operate remotely as a "loyal wingman" type drone.  It didn't improve the VF-27's acceleration, but it did help both its armament and its maneuverability.  The Sv-262 also used drones that way, though the improvement in maneuverability that comes from using them as thrust vectoring nozzles and the modest improvement in armament that comes from their built-in weapons and ability to operate in support of their mothership takes a back seat to their main purpose: being glorified drop tanks supplementing the Sv-262's woefully inadequate internal fuel tanks.  The Super Ghost used with the VF-31AX can be used the same way, though since its performance is unknown it's not clear how much benefit it actually offers.

[Nemus]

it makes sense, but seeing how much better the vf-31 was with its boosters, it makes me think they must be damn light

[Seto Kaiba]

54 minutes ago, Nemus said:

it makes sense, but seeing how much better the vf-31 was with its boosters, it makes me think they must be damn light

They're actually quite heavy... though that weight is mainly the fuel and additional weaponry.  The VF-31's Super Pack effectively more than quadruples its weight and almost 2/3 of that additional mass is fuel.  The additional thrust of the booster rockets offsets a good portion of that additional weight and the acceleration performance gradually improves as the rockets are used because that heavy fuel is being incrementally burned off making the aircraft lighter.

 

Boosters also have one other advantage over drones... they're cheap.  FAST Packs like the Super Pack often have energy conversion armor material built into them but they're not very complex to manufacture.  They're actually designed to be disposable should the situation call for it.  Unmanned fighters, on the other hand, are quite expensive because they have to have sophisticated computers for flight control and autonomous combat, communications systems to allow for remote command and control, their own engines, sensor systems, etc.  It's said that the QF-4000 Ghost that was the main unmanned fighter in the 2050s and beyond cost about 1/3 what a VF-171 Nightmare Plus did.  The Lilldrakens used by Windermere are smaller and less sophisticated so they're probably cheaper, but the Super Ghost may be quite expensive indeed as it seems to be based on the AIF-9V series Ghost.

[pengbuzz]

15 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They're actually quite heavy... though that weight is mainly the fuel and additional weaponry.  The VF-31's Super Pack effectively more than quadruples its weight and almost 2/3 of that additional mass is fuel.  The additional thrust of the booster rockets offsets a good portion of that additional weight and the acceleration performance gradually improves as the rockets are used because that heavy fuel is being incrementally burned off making the aircraft lighter.

 

Boosters also have one other advantage over drones... they're cheap.  FAST Packs like the Super Pack often have energy conversion armor material built into them but they're not very complex to manufacture.  They're actually designed to be disposable should the situation call for it.  Unmanned fighters, on the other hand, are quite expensive because they have to have sophisticated computers for flight control and autonomous combat, communications systems to allow for remote command and control, their own engines, sensor systems, etc.  It's said that the QF-4000 Ghost that was the main unmanned fighter in the 2050s and beyond cost about 1/3 what a VF-171 Nightmare Plus did.  The Lilldrakens used by Windermere are smaller and less sophisticated so they're probably cheaper, but the Super Ghost may be quite expensive indeed as it seems to be based on the AIF-9V series Ghost.

Yeah, that tends to be something of a dilemma: the more fuel you carry, the more weight/ mass and the more you need to move it. Given the energy contained in a given unit of fuel, sooner or later, it cancels any advantage. This is what early spaceflight faced and in the case of Macross, they still face to some degree today. Modern Macross engines are more efficient (as you previously mentioned), but sooner or later, the amount of fuel/ propellant you carry is going to outweigh your engine power.

[Nemus]

yes, on paper it should be like this, but our reasoning is contradicted by the performance of the planes on the screen. They go faster with drones than without drones. That's why I wanted your opinion

[Seto Kaiba]

18 hours ago, Nemus said:

yes, on paper it should be like this, but our reasoning is contradicted by the performance of the planes on the screen. They go faster with drones than without drones. That's why I wanted your opinion

We never get an objective frame of reference for speed, so that's really more perception than anything.

That said, the configurations using drones almost certainly do go faster because the drones are lighter than the heavy booster rockets.  The tradeoffs there being that the drones cost substantially more, carry much less weaponry, and don't improve the fighter's armor.  I'd question whether any fighter except perhaps the VF-31AX Kairos Plus really gets that benefit though.  The Sv-303's mini-ghosts don't contribute to its output because they're run off capacitors rather than having dedicated engines, and the Sv-262's Lilldrakens are a range extender rather than something meant to boost performance.  The "Super Ghost" from Absolute Live!!!!!! seems to be the only one big enough for its engines to offer a large increase in output, as it seems to be pretty much a full-sized Ghost.

[deanrol]

Boosters and drones can enhance performance by providing additional thrust or tactical advantages, but they do add weight, which can impact the thrust-to-weight ratio. In the anime, planes equipped with boosters or drones often showed improved acceleration and dogfighting capabilities, reflecting their effectiveness despite the added weight.