AQ: what do u think is the most underrated fighter

[Lightning]

OK aviation buffs and experts (as well as the general fanbase), i have a question for you: what do you think is the most underrated fighter of any nation?

I think it's the F-5/T-38 Tiger II/Freedom Fighter

EDIT: remember the question isnt about the most liked fighter, it's about the most UNDERRATED fighter.

Edited February 4, 2004 by Lightning 06

[Coota0]

Among other pilots the SU-27 line is pretty well liked, but as far as the General public is concerned I'd say the SU-27 family, but I think among aviation lovers the Tornado doesn't get enough love.

[Knight26]

Well we all know that I am a big Flanker and Fuclrum fan, but as for underrated fighters out there, hmmm.... I would have to say the A-4K Skyhawk, and the F-8 Crusader. Ordinarily I would put the A-10 for underrated attacker, but that is just inside the air force top brass, everyone else admits that is the best attack jet and tank killer in the world.

[David Hingtgen]

I'll go along with F-5 and F-8, and toss in the F-14 as well. (F-14's don't bleed off very much speed in a turn, a little-known but big advantage--there's no point pulling 9G's if you're down to 150kts once you come out of it, with no energy left)

Add in the Sea Harrier FRS.Mk2--with the new radar and AMRAAM's, it's pretty darn good at long-range, equal to the Hornet-C I'd say.

And of course, let's have over-rated fighters of course:

I'll start with the MiG-25 and F/A-18E.

[renegadeleader1]

underated fighter- F-16 Fighting Falcon. Despite all this new talk of next gen fighters like the F-22 and the JSF people forget this thing is so manueverable it makes pilots black out. Its a good attacker too.

Underated Attacker- F-111 Ardvark. Few people even remember this plane but this attacker took a heavy toll on Iraqi ground forces during the first gulf war and is the plane that dropped more bomb tonnage than any other fighter or attacker and had the highest accuracy too.

Underated Bomber- B-52 Hustler- the oldest planes in the USAF and one of the longest production runs(what are we on the K model now?) While prescision bombing can do only so much the B-52 is always on call to shock and awe with saturation bombings. Trust me nothing is more demoralizing to ground troops than to watch a squadron of 12 of these giants unload. A vietnam war relic still usefull today. Its said that when the last B-1 and B-2 bombers are retired a B-52 will be on standby to carry their crews home.

notable mention- A-6 Intruder. Despite it going into retirement it still was and is the navy's heaviest bomber. Proof its still needed is apparent in the afgahn campaign were due to lack of attack aircraft they outfited S-3 vikings(anti-sub) with bombs and missiles.

EDIT:just did a search of the web. Its good to know the ardvark still has a home. The RAAF(austrailia) is still using them.

Edited February 4, 2004 by renegadeleader1

[Lightning]

well, the F-111 was also used as an inspiration for the VF-1 as well, even SK said it.

as to it's fighting ability, i think it's only got like 2 kills in it's entire lifetime, it should really be the B-111, but blame the Air Force brass for saying it's a fighter instead of a attack aircraft or a bomber.

another quote that comes to mind (it's very downgrading about the -111, but funny) "I say take off the wings, strip out the bomb bays, put in 2 rows of seats, and turn it into a high speed taxi"-the late General Boyd

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

F-8 crusader. A lot o peoelp overlook this in favor of the phantom,. The crusader could haul ass and for a time was the only plane that had enough manueverability in the navy to be deemed a close in gunfighter UNTIL the Tomcat came.(as you all know the phantom could dogfight well but it was not made for it at all...at least the tomcat was made to be mauneverable enough to begin with)>

The F-8 is awesome and has the highest or best kill ratio of the war. Not to mention its unique looking and badass.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Two planes totally deserving of being forgotten that I love to death are the OV-10 Bronco \ Bronco 2 and the A-37 Dragonfly \ Dragonfly 2.

Two totally forgettable, butt ugly planes that no one but me seems to remember...

God bless those messes!

[Lightning]

actually, the Air Force still has the A-37..they have the training variant of it.

[the white drew carey]

Ummm... "B-52 Hustler"?!?

[Lightning]

Honorable mention: the AC-130!

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

Attack aircraft: SU-25 Stormovik/Frogfoot

[Coota0]

B-52 is teh Stratofortress, don't see how she is underated.

B-58 is the Hustler, pretty fast but, carried an external bomb pod...weird

The USAF is all kinds of jacked up in naming aircraft they think everything needs an "F" designation- F-111

F-117 Both are attack jets

I think the F-16 should really be the F/A-16 too and the F/A-22 should really be an F-22, but they're doing the same thing with the JSF I've yet to see anything referring to it as the F/A-35 or for that matter the F/A/V-35 (this one will be bitch if that's what the Marines call it)

I think we should perhaps change the requremants to most underated

Bomber

Attacker

Fighter

for a period of years say:

1939-1943

1943-1948

1949-1954

1955-1960

1960-1965

1965-1975

1975-1990

1990-present

Just an idea

[Druna Skass]

How about the Mirage 2000? I heard that version had performance comparable to the F-16, yet hardly anyone uses it aside from the French and I think Peru.

[Lightning]

nah, if we changed it would have to be by war era.

i.e.

WWII

Korea

Vietnam

Panama

Colombia

Desert Storm/Shield

Kosovo

Iraqi Freedom

[Isamu Atreides 86]

the A-10. toughest plane out there. gets the job done by getting down and dirty with a big ass gun. ain't nothing better.

[Phyrox]

nah, if we changed it would have to be by war era.

i.e.

WWII

Korea

Vietnam

Panama

Colombia

Desert Storm/Shield

Kosovo

Iraqi Freedom

Why such short shrift for the early days of aviation?

Where is WWI, or the "Golden Age?"

F2B always seemed underrated to me, as did the Pfalz D.III (but the last mostly because it looks so good )

edit: I ALWAYS spell Platz, Pfaltz, Pfalz wrong...

Edited February 4, 2004 by Phyrox

[Lightning]

ok, ok! tack WWI in there too!

[Phyrox]

Ok, it isn't modern, but I have always had a soft spot in my heart for the lovely He-111, and it consistantly takes back seat to the ubiquitous Ju-88.

I'd like to see statistics on tonage of bombs dropped, and numbers used as bombers (not zerstorer, or nightfighter). Every game I've played has a Ju-88 in it, it gets all the press, while the workhorse gets nothing but technical books.

I rate the He-111 as most underrated German WWII bomber (in my book).

[Vostok 7]

Most every Russian aircraft from WWII on.

Vostok 7

[David Hingtgen]

I didn't list the F-16 because it's well acknowledged as a$$-kicking, and practically unbeatable at "knife-range" as it's called.

F-111---amazing attack plane. When they really needed something taken out in Desert Storm, they called for 111's, not 15E's. Size matters, for a bomber. (And F-111's are just as fast as an F-15 at altitude, and even faster at low altitude)

A-6, A-7----they rock, or they wouldn't have been in service so long. And most people love to point out that in Desert Storm, they could carry more stuff, further, than the Hornet. Oh well, maybe the Super DUPER KF/A_B-18M Hornet II will finally beat them for range/payload.....

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I think the F15E gets overlooked. DId it loose any manueverability or dogfight close in knife fighting ability when it became a mud hen? I know it had better enbgines and an airframe stressed for 9g but Still I do wonder....

I don't think the F-18E could take on the A-6.....I totally forgo about the corsair that plane is nice!@ Also looks lke the crusader so you cant go wrong.

I think the Tornado ECR is overlooked. looks badass too. If anythign is overlooked I believe it is ASF14 ....the all new F-14 that NOONE thus far has been able to show me what it lookes like. (supposedly a lot differnet than the upgrade tomcat21).

[Weasel58]

The USAF is all kinds of jacked up in naming aircraft they think everything needs an "F" designation- F-111 F-117 Both are attack jets

Just wanted to point out that the F-111 was originally designed as a Navy interceptor under the “TFX” program. It wasn’t until Robert Mcnamara, and his “wiz kids” decided to cut costs that it also had to be an Air Force Bomber. The plane that ended up being produced as the F-111 was way to heavy for carrier work and a naval version was never built. The Navy still wanted their interceptor, and ended up with the F-14 “Tomcat”.

As for the most underrated fighter? Well I always thought the F-5E and the one off F-20 were better than most people thought.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

IO actually think i was the other way around. Th airforce needed a bomber and mcnamara forced the navy to do with coomonality and make it their interceptor.

The F-20 has a lot of respect from navy pilots and most were looking forward to flying thatr rqather than the F-16N when some of the F-5s got replaced/

[legios]

The F-5 isn't underrated, it's really not all that good. It can't carry Radar AA missiles, which is a major drawback in a shooting war. It does you no good to be super maneuverable if you get an AMRAAM in your face from 40 miles.

The F-20 tried to fix that problem, but only one was built.

I would say that the most underrated fighter would be the British Sea Harrier. The kill-loss ratio is one of the highest, and it is super deployable.

PS. Some notes:

S-3's did carry ordinance during Iraqi Freedom, but never over the beach. S-3 guys, while great, tend to be thought of as a "little off". We would never let them near a real strike.

F-111's were supposed to be a Navy and Air Force fighter, hence the F designation.

Tornados and F-111's were great at terrain hugging. However, the problem with that is that they have to use a terrain avoidance radar which beams in front of the aircraft. This tends to give away the fact that they are coming.

F/A-22 was renamed F/A for political reasons. It's pretty hard to sell an air superiority fighter to Congress when the US has had little trouble ruling the skies in recent conflicts. Ahhh, but an attack fighter that could strike terrorist targets...not of course that would be funded.

later....

[David Hingtgen]

Well, I always figured the F-5 could have paralleled the F-16's development, had we bought any. (Yes, I know we bought *some*, but not enough for anyone to care)

Heck, they both started out as pure short-range Sidwinder-only light fighters. But add in some fancy radar, add Sparrow and/or AMRAAM, and you've got yourself a nice, agile fighter. They did for the F-16, but the F-5 never got that chance. Then there's the F-20---but why buy the F-20 when the F-16's already got all those improvements by then, and can bomb, too.

And while Sea Harriers have a good air-to-air record, a big chunk of that is because of who and what they fought, not wonderfulness of the plane. Though I did list the upgraded FRSMk2 in my list, for with the new radar (among the best in the world now), and AMRAAM's, it's got quite the long-range punch.

[GreatMoose]

For most underrated fighter, I'd have to go with the MiG-19. Wasn't great, but was a pretty cool piece of aerial hardware. And depending on who you ask, it actually beat out the F-100 as the first supersonic fighter.

[F-ZeroOne]

The Tornado ADV. Never really had a chance to prove itself in its intended interception role.

The Sea Harriers kill ratio is largely due to the Falklands War, and while it performed superbly such things do need to be taken in context a bit; if the Argentine Air Force had been operating closer to home things might have been rather different. They did a lot of damage with, in many cases, just simple bombs. Exocets just got all the attention... ( similar to the NVAF in Vietnam; if they'd fought the USAF on USAF terms, they'd have been annihilated... )

The Blackburn Buccaneer rarely gets a mention anywhere, but according to some accounts, it was the king of low level attack runs. One story has it that a US fighter that tried to chase one on an exercise once ended up inverted at zero feet, at which point the pursuing pilot decided that it was only an exercise and they weren't paying him nearly enough for this...

Historically, the Hawker Hurricane. Just about anywhere in W.W. II - even in the middle of the Atlantic - you would find one shooting at aircraft, dropping bombs on tanks, or strafing in the jungle. By most accounts, a lovely, if slightly outdated aircraft, just always in the shadow of its more glamorous partner...