The Acolyte - Disney Plus Star Wars Series

[Thom]

8 hours ago, kajnrig said:

...

The sisterly relationship doesn't have any of the wrinkles, nuances, etc. that you see from real siblings, much less twins. I see that the actresses who played Young Mae and Osha are actual twins, and it would have been nice to see them maybe inject some of their real-life experience as such into the roles. Or tweak the script here and there to show as much. Have them be extra empathetic to each other. Have them able to predict the other's behaviors. Have them be increasingly perturbed by their lack of unity over their future. Let the actors chew the scenery a bit more than not at all. On the other hand, I suppose The Acolyte is again only following the lead of the prequel movies. Still doesn't make it okay, though.

I think we saw the break up of that very thing in episode 3. They clearly had a far closer relationship in the past, with their own personal rhymes and songs about them being truly two of one, but Osha clearly had had enough of not seeing herself as her own person. Wanting to join the Jedi may have just been an outgrowth of this that waned over the course of her training. And Mae was getting angry at her sister because she was starting to pull away from her, maybe because Osha noticed her sister's growing psychosis, on a deeper level than just cruelty to animals, and didn't want to be 'one' with that.

 

 

Edited June 13 by Thom

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Poor writing and fanfiction aren't synonymous. Some of the best - heck, arguably THE best - parts of Star Wars are for all intents and purposes just "elevated" fanfiction.

Poor writing and fanfiction aren't completely synonymous... but the vast majority of fanfiction is badly written, and poor-quality professional writing has enough in common with it for it to pass as a synonym in common use. 

Having been directed to some of what I'm told are the "choicest cuts" of Star Wars material by friends who are fans, I'm not sure that's a good thing and IMO it says more about the iffy quality of a lot of Star Wars's first-party offerings than anything.

 

10 hours ago, kajnrig said:

It IS poorly-written, though, that much is true. Or at the very least, it's muddled writing. Unclear. Imprecise. It seems to want to depict the Jedi as well-doing sages... but more often than not it shows them imposing themselves on others. It seems to want us to empathize with the witch coven... but it shows them being antagonistic and collectively a bit overquick on the figurative draw. It seems to want us to think of the personal drama between Osha et al as just that: dramatic... but more often than not it shows everyone kind of just talking past each other.

I agree with your general point, though my take as to the cause is reversed.

To me, it feels like The Acolyte's writers are trying to write a more mature story than Star Wars's usual fare by injecting some complexity and some shades of grey into the normally rigid and inflexible Good vs Evil dynamic that accompanies any story involving the Jedi.  They're just going about it in a very halfhearted and desultory way because there's only so far they can go with it before they lose the audience.

The Jedi in The Acolyte are still the wise, noble, selfless, heroic defenders of truth, justice, and the Republic way™️ they are in prior works.  All that's really been done to make them less saintly in this story is that their characterization is slightly more grounded, so they come off as officious and arrogant.  The Witches are still very much depicted like the dark side-worshipping cults of previous stories.  They're still paranoid and aggressive while espousing a "Dark is not Evil" philosophy at odds with how the Force actually works and a "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" worldview.  All that's been done to soften their evilness is that they're shown to love their children and their leader outsources maniacal laughter to another witch.  The result is that neither performance comes off as convincing because they're trying to add nuance to factions that are normally one-dimensional by nature of the Force's inclination to moral absolutes.

 

10 hours ago, kajnrig said:

The acting feels wooden, and I can only suspect that this was a result of the directing... or show-running... or something beyond the ability of the actors themselves to change, because I've seen better from all of them. (Or at least all of them that I recognize.)

IMO, it's more a limitation of the source material.

The Jedi are expected to be serene and collected warrior monks.  That means a "good" Jedi performance is nevertheless a flat one, like playing a Vulcan on Star Trek.  

Dark Side-aligned groups like the Sith or Witches are the opposite extreme.  They're expected to be emotionally volatile and quick to anger.  Classic uncomplicated melodramatic villains.  That still makes for a stilted performance because they can't exhibit a believable emotional range.

 

10 hours ago, kajnrig said:

The sisterly relationship doesn't have any of the wrinkles, nuances, etc. that you see from real siblings, much less twins. I see that the actresses who played Young Mae and Osha are actual twins, and it would have been nice to see them maybe inject some of their real-life experience as such into the roles. Or tweak the script here and there to show as much. Have them be extra empathetic to each other. Have them able to predict the other's behaviors. Have them be increasingly perturbed by their lack of unity over their future. Let the actors chew the scenery a bit more than not at all. On the other hand, I suppose The Acolyte is again only following the lead of the prequel movies. Still doesn't make it okay, though.

On this, I am not sure I agree.  If anything, Osha's desire to be her own person with an identity separate from that of her identical twin sister Mae's is pretty standard identical twin behavior.

[kajnrig]

4 hours ago, Thom said:

I think we saw the break up of that very thing in episode 3. They clearly had a far closer relationship in the past, with their own personal rhymes and songs about them being truly two of one, but Osha clearly had had enough of not seeing herself as her own person. Wanting to join the Jedi may have just been an outgrowth of this that waned over the course of her training. And Mae was getting angry at her sister because she was starting to pull away from her, maybe because Osha noticed her sister's growing psychosis, on a deeper level than just cruelty to animals, and didn't want to be 'one' with that.

Maybe I just wasn't paying attention, because my impression was that one of the twins wants doggedly to be her own person, as if she has always wanted doggedly to be her own person; the other acts as if "two of one" is so obvious as to be taken for granted, as if it has always been so obvious as to be taken for granted. At the very least, they and their elders take each other's attitudes and presumably disquieting attitudes in stride almost as if "oh boy there goes Osha with her rebellious streak again" or "oh boy there goes Mae again with her animal cruelty." Like, Osha isn't disturbed at all by Mae's aforementioned animal cruelty, nor does she cite it as a reason for her growing disillusionment with the coven; she just tells her to knock it off and they move onto the next scene. No voicing her concern to her mom(s), no reflecting on the incident in her room, no perhaps taking time to bring it to the attention of Sol in an act of intimation that brings them closer together...

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

On this, I am not sure I agree.  If anything, Osha's desire to be her own person with an identity separate from that of her identical twin sister Mae's is pretty standard identical twin behavior.

I've known a handful of twins IRL and they've swung all the way from one extreme to the other, from doing everything together and matching clothing to expressly avoiding being in the same room as each other. But regardless of how much they want to be like/different from each other, they DO tend to resemble each other in their behavior, mannerisms, thinking patterns, etc. But what I meant when I brought those things up wasn't so much that I wanted to see those specific things and that specific type of sibling relationship - empathy, prediction, separation anxiety, etc. - just that, whichever way the creators wanted to go with their sibling dynamic, their depiction of it could have allowed for more... flourish. Nuance. Expression. I wanted to see their being siblings reinforced through secondary and tertiary means, especially when they had prime reference material in the actresses themselves.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Poor writing and fanfiction aren't completely synonymous... but the vast majority of fanfiction is badly written, and poor-quality professional writing has enough in common with it for it to pass as a synonym in common use. 

Having been directed to some of what I'm told are the "choicest cuts" of Star Wars material by friends who are fans, I'm not sure that's a good thing and IMO it says more about the iffy quality of a lot of Star Wars's first-party offerings than anything.

Which is exactly my point. If Star Wars can get away with not having "bad writing" associated with it despite its "choicest cuts" being of iffy quality, then so too can fanfiction writ large. Or from the other way around, if fanfiction is synonymous with poor writing because the vast majority of it is poorly written, then so too should Star Wars be synonymous with poor writing because the vast majority of it is poorly written.

The vast majority of everything is poorly written, as a matter of fact, but it's only fanfiction that gets lumped with the association. Thus I'll always go to bat for fanfiction. But anyway, that's the most minor of nits I've picked.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I agree with your general point, though my take as to the cause is reversed.

To me, it feels like The Acolyte's writers are trying to write a more mature story than Star Wars's usual fare by injecting some complexity and some shades of grey into the normally rigid and inflexible Good vs Evil dynamic that accompanies any story involving the Jedi.  They're just going about it in a very halfhearted and desultory way because there's only so far they can go with it before they lose the audience.

........

IMO, it's more a limitation of the source material.

I agree it's to do with the source material, I disagree that it's out of fear of losing the audience. Or rather, I don't think the two are necessarily so closely linked as the creators of The Acolyte fear think it is. The Jedi were a completely different beast before Lucas started his work on the prequels. The "source material" of Star Wars didn't include a literal Chosen One prophecy until he just decided to add it in alongside a tortured Jesus analogue. Fans have been open to more change to Star Wars canon than these creators seem to think they are, sometimes accepting even objectively bad changes. I get the feeling this show's creators write more out of fear of upsetting an imagined status quo rather than out of a desire to tell a compelling story.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Jedi in The Acolyte are still the wise, noble, selfless, heroic defenders of truth, justice, and the Republic way™️ they are in prior works.  All that's really been done to make them less saintly in this story is that their characterization is slightly more grounded, so they come off as officious and arrogant.

I will say, and this is starting to veer outside of The Acolyte specifically and into the Star Wars canon more broadly, I hate that the Jedi have become synonymous with The Republic. The show treats the Jedi's values as being one and the same as the Republic's values, which... no. No, religious dedication to a life of celibacy and worldly detachments(?) is not synonymous with dedication to running society via rules developed from the assent and often compromise of a variety of perspectives, no matter how much the Prequels might assert otherwise. The Jedi are (or should be, at any rate) like the monks of European monasteries, or the ninja clans of the Japanese warring states, or indeed the Shaolin monks across the breadth of Chinese history; unique, generally isolated communities whose interests occasionally align with their respective governing states but more often are merely inoffensive to them, and indeed occasionally are at odds or even threaten them. That last bit was clearly an idea Lucas was trying to express in his prequel depiction of the Republic and the Jedi Order. He just wasn't fully up to the task of it.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Witches are still very much depicted like the dark side-worshipping cults of previous stories.  They're still paranoid and aggressive while espousing a "Dark is not Evil" philosophy at odds with how the Force actually works and a "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" worldview.  All that's been done to soften their evilness is that they're shown to love their children and their leader outsources maniacal laughter to another witch.

I've heard vaguely of Force Witches before, but being the Star Wars plebeian that I am, I don't know anything beyond that they exist. I can't say I'm too surprised that their previous depictions have been as straight forward as they were.

 

One more gripe I had with this Episode 3, kind of related to the others I've had: I would have liked to spend more time on Brendok and see the events play out over a longer period. Obviously there's more going on and my opinion might change as more is revealed, but with regards to the gripes I have so far, an extended time period of Witch-Jedi interaction could have settled many of them.

[Big s]

35 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

I've known a handful of twins IRL and they've swung all the way from one extreme to the other, from doing everything together and matching clothing to expressly avoiding being in the same room as each other.

Yeah, I’ve seen some twins that practically hated eachother, but there’s also been many documented stories about twins that had been separated either at birth or very young ages that have grown to be surprisingly identical without k owing the other twin. Things simple like how they dress or hairdos, to more complicated things like career paths or even marrying near identical partners. I think that twin bond and something as mythical as the “thread” should play a bigger role in these particular characters like you’ve said. Instead they just went with a dark side/light side separation. It would have been far more interesting if they were both a bit more middle ground and then somehow showing the difference in who influenced them after separation.

 

45 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

I will say, and this is starting to veer outside of The Acolyte specifically and into the Star Wars canon more broadly, I hate that the Jedi have become synonymous with The Republic.

I think the reason they get tied to to the republic is basically been in their titles from the beginning. They’ve always been known even from the old school films as being Jedi Knights. That title kind of implies that they are in some type of service to the republic.

Personally, I’m always a little disappointed that whenever Britain gets involved in an armed conflict that Sir Paul Mcartney doesn’t pick up his sword to help defeat those enemies he’s sworn to defend his country and the royal family from.

[Thom]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

Maybe I just wasn't paying attention, because my impression was that one of the twins wants doggedly to be her own person, as if she has always wanted doggedly to be her own person; the other acts as if "two of one" is so obvious as to be taken for granted, as if it has always been so obvious as to be taken for granted. At the very least, they and their elders take each other's attitudes and presumably disquieting attitudes in stride almost as if "oh boy there goes Osha with her rebellious streak again" or "oh boy there goes Mae again with her animal cruelty." Like, Osha isn't disturbed at all by Mae's aforementioned animal cruelty, nor does she cite it as a reason for her growing disillusionment with the coven; she just tells her to knock it off and they move onto the next scene. No voicing her concern to her mom(s), no reflecting on the incident in her room, no perhaps taking time to bring it to the attention of Sol in an act of intimation that brings them closer together...

...

I didn't get the sense that she always wanted to be 'her own person.' That little routine they go through, that Osha is clearly more aggravated about doing now, must have come about when they were both very much into being twinsies. That is my assumption anyway. As to going to her parents, or other adults about Mae's cruelty streak. kids don't tell their parents everything, esp if they don't want the other person to get in trouble, or if they are down playing the danger just to not face the problem itself. People can be very good at that.😉

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, Big s said:

I think the reason they get tied to to the republic is basically been in their titles from the beginning. They’ve always been known even from the old school films as being Jedi Knights. That title kind of implies that they are in some type of service to the republic.

Personally, I've always thought the term "Jedi Knight" was weird because of its monarchical implications, and how such implications are at odds with the idea of a republic. But on the other hand I've also always associated the term "Jedi Knight" more with the religious term, ie a member of a militant arm of a religious order (a knight belonging to and fighting for specifically the Jedi) rather than any political state (a knight in service of the Republic/Empire/their king/etc. who happens to be a Jedi).

3 hours ago, Thom said:

I didn't get the sense that she always wanted to be 'her own person.' That little routine they go through, that Osha is clearly more aggravated about doing now, must have come about when they were both very much into being twinsies. That is my assumption anyway. As to going to her parents, or other adults about Mae's cruelty streak. kids don't tell their parents everything, esp if they don't want the other person to get in trouble, or if they are down playing the danger just to not face the problem itself. People can be very good at that.😉

That may be true; I think the show could have done a better job of informing us (or maybe just me ) of that. It's why I would have wanted an extended time frame for the events on Brendok. Or even something as simple as the characters referencing the past would have helped give me some context for how Osha is the way she is and why. There's a short scene in Attack of the Clones where Obi-Wan and Anakin talk about their past adventures while riding an elevator. It's hamfisted writing in its own way, and the acting is as stilted as it is throughout the rest of the movie, but it still serves to inform us about the characters, their past, their relationship to each other and the world and people around them, etc. Osha and Mae could have used something similar to at least give us an idea of what life used to be like for them.

I watched the latest episode again just to make sure I caught anything I might have missed the first go around (btw @Seto Kaiba the subtitles say "ma-n-i-c-ally" not "ma-n-i-a-c-ally"), and a point occurred to me again that I neglected to mention before: we don't know or learn why Osha wants to be a Jedi. Or why she thinks they're good. Or why the Witches think they're bad. (There is the barest hint of religious persecution wrought by the Jedi upon the Witches, but it's extremely vague, almost like the writers haven't fully thought out what that persecution looked like.) Or why, despite thinking the Jedi are bad and possibly having an ugly history with them, the Witches let them impose their customs. Indara says to the head witch Aniseya, "You cannot deny that Jedi have the right to test potential Padawan."... immediately after both sides have made it clear that 1) they're on bad terms, and 2) this planet isn't part of the Republic and thus the Jedi presumably have no jurisdiction here. Do the Jedi have the right? What kind of right, ie divine/legal? Why? And yet Aniseya acquiesces. Again, why? Could she not simply tell them "No, frakk off out of here, unless you plan to show us the same hospitality that drove us here in the first place, in which case frakk off out of here AND take this parting gift of an arrow to your face while you're at it."?

[Seto Kaiba]

15 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Which is exactly my point. If Star Wars can get away with not having "bad writing" associated with it despite its "choicest cuts" being of iffy quality, then so too can fanfiction writ large. Or from the other way around, if fanfiction is synonymous with poor writing because the vast majority of it is poorly written, then so too should Star Wars be synonymous with poor writing because the vast majority of it is poorly written.

I don't think it works that way, TBH... in part because perception of Star Wars is propped up by the cultural significance of the original trilogy.

Mind you, there does seem to be a definite trend towards Star Wars - or at least Disney Star Wars - being seen as synonymous with poor writing thanks to the sequel trilogy, Solo: a Star Wars Story, Obi-Wan Kenobi, The Book of Boba Fett, and most recently The Acolyte.  Of course, a significant portion of that seems to also be based on the fanbase's particular grievances over Disney having made hamburger of their sacred cows.

 

 

15 hours ago, kajnrig said:

I agree it's to do with the source material, I disagree that it's out of fear of losing the audience.

I think there's a pretty sound case to be made for practically everything Disney has done since acquiring LucasFilm having been done out of fear of losing the audience.

Doubly so since The Last Jedi and Solo: a Star Wars Story bombed.

 

15 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Or rather, I don't think the two are necessarily so closely linked as the creators of The Acolyte fear think it is. The Jedi were a completely different beast before Lucas started his work on the prequels. The "source material" of Star Wars didn't include a literal Chosen One prophecy until he just decided to add it in alongside a tortured Jesus analogue. Fans have been open to more change to Star Wars canon than these creators seem to think they are, sometimes accepting even objectively bad changes. I get the feeling this show's creators write more out of fear of upsetting an imagined status quo rather than out of a desire to tell a compelling story.

I've had the same feeling that Leslye Headland et. al. are more than a little afraid of upsetting the status quo...

However, I'm not sure I would say that status quo is imagined nor the fear of upsetting the audience by transgressing it unfounded.

After all, George Lucas was able to get away with making sweeping changes to the beloved franchise because he was its equally-beloved creator.  He'd already managed to sell his audience on the idea that "I always meant to do X" when he was doing the Special Editions of the original trilogy movies, so the Star Wars fans seem to have been willing to take his sweeping and often ill-advised changes in stride.  (There was still at some complaining, e.g. "Han shot first".)

I doubt that die-hard Star Wars fans would have ever given Disney the same latitude because Disney didn't create Star Wars.  They just the evil corporation that bought it.  They lost whatever goodwill they might have inherited from George Lucas's stewardship of the franchise when they announced their intention to do a soft reboot of the franchise.  Even then they probably could've recovered if they'd managed to blow everyone away with Episode 7, but it turned out to be a lazy rehash of A New Hope.  Then came the one-two punch that was the backlash against Solo and The Last Jedi.  So yeah, Disney as a whole are afraid of upsetting the status quo further... and they have reason to be, because nobody wants to be known as the one who made gooseburgers out of the goose that laid the golden eggs.

 

15 hours ago, kajnrig said:

I will say, and this is starting to veer outside of The Acolyte specifically and into the Star Wars canon more broadly, I hate that the Jedi have become synonymous with The Republic. The show treats the Jedi's values as being one and the same as the Republic's values, which... no. No, religious dedication to a life of celibacy and worldly detachments(?) is not synonymous with dedication to running society via rules developed from the assent and often compromise of a variety of perspectives, no matter how much the Prequels might assert otherwise. The Jedi are (or should be, at any rate) like the monks of European monasteries, or the ninja clans of the Japanese warring states, or indeed the Shaolin monks across the breadth of Chinese history; unique, generally isolated communities whose interests occasionally align with their respective governing states but more often are merely inoffensive to them, and indeed occasionally are at odds or even threaten them. That last bit was clearly an idea Lucas was trying to express in his prequel depiction of the Republic and the Jedi Order. He just wasn't fully up to the task of it.

It's still applicable to The Acolyte, IMO.

The Jedi being synonymous with the Republic was unavoidable.  One of the very first things we learn about the Jedi and the Old Republic in A New Hope is that "for over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic."  Everything else we've got built on that, which made the Jedi out to be fundamentally and intrinsically intertwined with the Republic.  The prequels took that idea and ran with it, and from what I can find on a quick search the old Star Wars Expanded Universe was already running with that idea for years before the prequels did.

What you're proposing would probably make substantially more sense than relying on a monastic order with significantly different priorities than the government's to serve as the Republic's de facto federal police force, but it wouldn't mesh with the idea from A New Hope. 

As a result, the depiction of the Jedi we're stuck with is the one that started in A New Hope and was established as literal truth in the prequels... that the Jedi were enmeshed into the actual government of the Republic as a sort of police force with almost comically broad powers.

 

15 hours ago, kajnrig said:

I've heard vaguely of Force Witches before, but being the Star Wars plebeian that I am, I don't know anything beyond that they exist. I can't say I'm too surprised that their previous depictions have been as straight forward as they were.

I too am a casual here, the only reason I know about them is I was told Ahsoka makes more sense if you've seen The Clone Wars and started watching that recently.

I've heard that the witches came out of the Expanded Universe novels originally, but haven't delved into that.  The ones in The Clone Wars suffer from the same tendency that every character in The Clone Wars has of polarizing into either Sainthood or Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain, and ended up deep in the latter camp.  Putting aside Mother Talzin having facial makeup/tattoos worthy of a fan of the Insane Clown Posse, she dressed and talked the part of a standard Wicked Witch, her coven worshipped the Dark Side of the Force, and their main role in the story was basically being a Dark Side staffing service selling prospective Sith apprentices to the likes of Darth Sideous and Count Dooku.  (Darth Maul is one such sale, having been Mother Talzin's own son.)  They get massacred by General Grievous in Tales of the Empire and one survivor (Morgan Elsbeth) aligns with the Empire to become a villain in The Mandalorian and Ahsoka, responsible for things like stormtrooper zombies.

So, yeah... THAT'S the image that The Acolyte is trying to soften here.  They're as far in the Evil camp as Darth Sideous and even less subtle about it.

 

15 hours ago, kajnrig said:

One more gripe I had with this Episode 3, kind of related to the others I've had: I would have liked to spend more time on Brendok and see the events play out over a longer period. Obviously there's more going on and my opinion might change as more is revealed, but with regards to the gripes I have so far, an extended time period of Witch-Jedi interaction could have settled many of them.

The Acolyte is only going to have eight episodes in its first (and likely only) season, so there's a limit to how much time they can invest in flashbacks.

[Dynaman]

50 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Acolyte is only going to have eight episodes in its first (and likely only) season, so there's a limit to how much time they can invest in flashbacks.

Maybe - the good stuff, otherwise known as The Mandalorian, gets turned into movies.  The other stuff stays on D+ along with the second (and last season) of Andor which is also good stuff but...

[Thom]

Admittedly, not knowing much about the Witches, I was assuming that different covens acted independently from each other, and in that vein, some may be more 'active' than others in the Dark Side. Also, there was mention of their low numbers, so perhaps they were taking a 'pause' in their evil objectives in order to rebuild the ranks, and were then just playing nice.

Although, making mention they were outside the Republic for the very reason of nullifying Republic law about testing, means the Jedi were outside their jurisdiction and thus had no power. Of course, that could go either way, either the Jedi conceding that they had no grounds, or using that to go outside their restrictions. Outside the law is outside the law for both sides, so maybe the Witches were conceding for fear the Jedi would push the issue, regardless? Even if they defeated the Jedi there, they could find themselves being hunted pretty quickly.

[Dynaman]

To be fair to the witches in this show.  They were absolutely spot on 100% correct to think the Jedi were going to take the kids away.  The Jedi habit of taking kids from their legal guardians makes them the evil ones.  It should not matter what the kids think about it, there is a reason we have age of consent laws or customs across the entire world.

What I really want to know is what kind of stone they used to build their fortress, every last witch except the two kids died from a fire in a stone building?

 

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Thom said:

Also, there was mention of their low numbers, so perhaps they were taking a 'pause' in their evil objectives in order to rebuild the ranks, and were then just playing nice.

I don't recall seeing any men, and Mae and Osha mention they are the only children in the fortress.

This would track with past depictions of Witches as keeping male slaves for the purpose of reproduction and sale.

The lack of men, and therefore children, would seem to be tied to them mentioning they're living in exile and are persecuted for their beliefs... and why they resorted to a forbidden and unnatural technique to conceive Osha and Mae.

 

4 hours ago, Thom said:

Although, making mention they were outside the Republic for the very reason of nullifying Republic law about testing, means the Jedi were outside their jurisdiction and thus had no power. Of course, that could go either way, either the Jedi conceding that they had no grounds, or using that to go outside their restrictions. Outside the law is outside the law for both sides, so maybe the Witches were conceding for fear the Jedi would push the issue, regardless? Even if they defeated the Jedi there, they could find themselves being hunted pretty quickly.

They picked a world outside of Republic space to hide out on because Republic law prohibits them from teaching their witchcraft to children.  That's why the subject of children in the coven is such a sensitive topic when the Republic's Jedi show up, before the subject of the Jedi wanting to test them is ever raised.

The Jedi might've been outside their normal jurisdiction, but they had the weight of the Republic behind them while the witches had nothing.  If they drove the Jedi away or killed them, it would just prompt a more substantial response from the Republic.  The Jedi can, essentially, do whatever the hell they want with that kind of backing because there aren't any near-peer interstellar states to rival the Republic's power.

 

2 hours ago, Dynaman said:

To be fair to the witches in this show.  They were absolutely spot on 100% correct to think the Jedi were going to take the kids away.  The Jedi habit of taking kids from their legal guardians makes them the evil ones.  It should not matter what the kids think about it, there is a reason we have age of consent laws or customs across the entire world.

It doesn't seem that way, for a couple reasons.  One being that they were apparently prepared to honor Mae's wish to be left with her family and only took Osha because she made her wish to come with them explicitly clear.

Given that the witches are living in exile because they follow a outlawed Religion of Evil and that teaching their craft to children is itself a crime, odds are the Jedi removing those kids from the coven would've been seen in-story like protective services removing children from a criminal's home.

[Dynaman]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It doesn't seem that way, for a couple reasons.  One being that they were apparently prepared to honor Mae's wish to be left with her family and only took Osha because she made her wish to come with them explicitly clear.

Given that the witches are living in exile because they follow a outlawed Religion of Evil and that teaching their craft to children is itself a crime, odds are the Jedi removing those kids from the coven would've been seen in-story like protective services removing children from a criminal's home.

Mae's wishes are irrelevant (Osha's too) since they are minors their parents are the ones that should make that decision.

The witches living outside of the jurisdiction of the Republic should not be under any of the Republic's laws or enforcement by any agents of the Republic.  That "outlawed" religion is only outlawed in the Republic.  But that is another trademark of an "evil" organization, selective enforcement of their rules outside of their jurisdiction.  I mean slavery is not considered worth stamping out outside the borders of the Republic.

[Thom]

1 hour ago, Dynaman said:

Mae's wishes are irrelevant (Osha's too) since they are minors their parents are the ones that should make that decision.

The witches living outside of the jurisdiction of the Republic should not be under any of the Republic's laws or enforcement by any agents of the Republic.  That "outlawed" religion is only outlawed in the Republic.  But that is another trademark of an "evil" organization, selective enforcement of their rules outside of their jurisdiction.  I mean slavery is not considered worth stamping out outside the borders of the Republic.

Their wishes would be irrelevant under our laws, but apparently not the Republics. Unless we're talking about special circumstances brought into play with the Force being involved. It seems that if you can access the Force, you enter another level of citizen-hood, in which standard rules begin not to apply. A troubling thought, to be sure. Thankfully, we can trust the Jedi.

5 hours ago, Dynaman said:

To be fair to the witches in this show.  They were absolutely spot on 100% correct to think the Jedi were going to take the kids away.  The Jedi habit of taking kids from their legal guardians makes them the evil ones.  It should not matter what the kids think about it, there is a reason we have age of consent laws or customs across the entire world.

What I really want to know is what kind of stone they used to build their fortress, every last witch except the two kids died from a fire in a stone building?

 

From the Jedi point of view, they are saving these children from the Dark Side, and if anyone is intent on teaching them the Dark Side, then they are already inherently in the wrong.

As to the fire, that's why I'm sure something more hinky went on. That fire spread too fast and too far, through a stone structure, and caused too many deaths.

 

 

 

Edited June 15 by Thom

[Dynaman]

27 minutes ago, Thom said:

 if you can access the Force, you enter another level of citizen-hood, in which standard rules begin not to apply. A troubling thought, to be sure. Thankfully, we can trust the Jedi.

Yup.  You can trust them to purposely bring children into a war zone, heck to even be commanders in that war.

Anyway, the main sin of this show is that it is boring.  Other stuff is forgivable if the characters were at all interesting, but they are not.  

[Big s]

5 hours ago, Dynaman said:

What I really want to know is what kind of stone they used to build their fortress, every last witch except the two kids died from a fire in a stone building?

That’s something that keeps coming up, but I’m thinking more of an electrical fire that could’ve killed them from smoke inhalation. The witches didn’t look burned to me. There’s also the bigger possibility that the fire had nothing at all to do with their deaths. I think Bad mom had more to do with it than is shown in the episode and there’s definitely a reason for super hippie to commit suicide.

 

2 hours ago, Dynaman said:

Mae's wishes are irrelevant (Osha's too) since they are minors their parents are the ones that should make that decision.

As far as parental wishes, it seems like good mom wanted OSHA to make her own decision 

[Big s]

4 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

Anyway, the main sin of this show is that it is boring.  Other stuff is forgivable if the characters were at all interesting, but they are not.  

The most interesting thing about this show are the speculations and realizations that the writers were just stupid. It’s one of those shows where everyone wants to over analyze it and when it turns out that things were just dumb and pointless with cringy toppings. Even I find myself hoping they go the slightly more complicated route, but I’ll probably just be equally disappointed by its simplicity 
 

I’m still having shaved wookie nightmares.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Dynaman said:

Mae's wishes are irrelevant (Osha's too) since they are minors their parents are the ones that should make that decision.

Even if Star Wars's setting followed the same rules as the real world (it doesn't), Mother Aniseya also agreed to let them go based on their wishes for the future... 

 

2 hours ago, Dynaman said:

The witches living outside of the jurisdiction of the Republic should not be under any of the Republic's laws or enforcement by any agents of the Republic.  That "outlawed" religion is only outlawed in the Republic. 

We don't actually know that other governments haven't outlawed it.  After all, Dark Side-users tend to be... disruptive societal influences.

(If the few episodes set on the witches homeworld in The Clone Wars and Tales of are any indication, their light side-aligned neighbors don't seem to like them much either.)

 

2 hours ago, Dynaman said:

I mean slavery is not considered worth stamping out outside the borders of the Republic.

I agree enforcement is spotty, but it's not always the case that they don't go outside their borders to stamp out slavery.

The Clone Wars introduced an alien species, the Zygerrians, who aligned themselves with the Separatists because the Republic and the Jedi overthrew their once-prosperous empire because of its slavery-based economy.  One of the padawans in The Acolyte, Tasi Lowa, is a Zygerrian Jedi... which must be pretty awkward for her considering that her people are still holding that grudge with downright homicidal fury more than a century after The Acolyte.)

 

55 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

Yup.  You can trust them to purposely bring children into a war zone, heck to even be commanders in that war.

As noted above, Star Wars has some very strange standards when it comes to age and adulthood.

A little Google-fu says that different worlds in the Galaxy Far Far Away set their own standards and traditions for when a person is considered an adult, with some human worlds putting that as low as 13 or as high as 21.  Padme's home planet Naboo seems to be on the low end, considering she entered government service as a noble at age 13 and was elected Queen at age 14.  Mon Mothma claims in Andor that she was married at age 15 and a senator by 16.  Leia joined the Rebellion at around age 15 and became an Imperial senator at age 18.  Quite a few of those kids may be kids by our standards, but adults by the standards of their culture and the Republic.

 

55 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

Anyway, the main sin of this show is that it is boring.  Other stuff is forgivable if the characters were at all interesting, but they are not.  

Yup... like I said a few pages back, this show is really intended for the Star Wars superfans to dig into every little reference and continuity nod.

It almost feels like they're hoping Star Wars fans will be so caught up in that that they won't notice the barely-there plot, nonexistent character development, cringeworthy dialog, or that none of the characters are relatable or interesting because Force users are hardstuck in specific inflexible character archetypes that actively prevent the actors from acting so every performance comes off as flat and lifeless.

[kajnrig]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They picked a world outside of Republic space to hide out on because Republic law prohibits them from teaching their witchcraft to children.  That's why the subject of children in the coven is such a sensitive topic when the Republic's Jedi show up, before the subject of the Jedi wanting to test them is ever raised.

The Jedi might've been outside their normal jurisdiction, but they had the weight of the Republic behind them while the witches had nothing.  If they drove the Jedi away or killed them, it would just prompt a more substantial response from the Republic.  The Jedi can, essentially, do whatever the hell they want with that kind of backing because there aren't any near-peer interstellar states to rival the Republic's power.

12 hours ago, Thom said:

Although, making mention they were outside the Republic for the very reason of nullifying Republic law about testing, means the Jedi were outside their jurisdiction and thus had no power. Of course, that could go either way, either the Jedi conceding that they had no grounds, or using that to go outside their restrictions. Outside the law is outside the law for both sides, so maybe the Witches were conceding for fear the Jedi would push the issue, regardless? Even if they defeated the Jedi there, they could find themselves being hunted pretty quickly.

If this were the case, I - again - would have liked that to be conveyed. This was my very assumption when no explicit reason was given, but as it is, it IS just an assumption and not corroborated by the show itself.

5 hours ago, Dynaman said:

The witches living outside of the jurisdiction of the Republic should not be under any of the Republic's laws or enforcement by any agents of the Republic.  That "outlawed" religion is only outlawed in the Republic.  But that is another trademark of an "evil" organization, selective enforcement of their rules outside of their jurisdiction.  I mean slavery is not considered worth stamping out outside the borders of the Republic.

This was exactly my thinking as well. Why else would they bring the fact of their not being within Republic boundaries up?

4 hours ago, Thom said:

Their wishes would be irrelevant under our laws, but apparently not the Republics. Unless we're talking about special circumstances brought into play with the Force being involved. It seems that if you can access the Force, you enter another level of citizen-hood, in which standard rules begin not to apply. A troubling thought, to be sure. Thankfully, we can trust the Jedi.

See, if there were an implied "shared best practices" type thing between these Force-believing religions that would compel the Witches to allow the Jedi to test them, I would find that extraordinarily interesting. Like, perhaps they both strongly emphasize the importance of developing Force sensitivity as children, and the Jedi invoke that similar belief to the Witches as something of an olive branch to convince them to allow the Jedi to test them.

4 hours ago, Thom said:

As to the fire, that's why I'm sure something more hinky went on. That fire spread too fast and too far, through a stone structure, and caused too many deaths.

3 hours ago, Big s said:

That’s something that keeps coming up, but I’m thinking more of an electrical fire that could’ve killed them from smoke inhalation. The witches didn’t look burned to me. There’s also the bigger possibility that the fire had nothing at all to do with their deaths. I think Bad mom had more to do with it than is shown in the episode and there’s definitely a reason for super hippie to commit suicide.

I'm guessing there's some sort of manipulation by the Mystery Sith as part of a Bigger Conspiracy.

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Mind you, there does seem to be a definite trend towards Star Wars - or at least Disney Star Wars - being seen as synonymous with poor writing thanks to the sequel trilogy, Solo: a Star Wars Story, Obi-Wan Kenobi, The Book of Boba Fett, and most recently The Acolyte.  Of course, a significant portion of that seems to also be based on the fanbase's particular grievances over Disney having made hamburger of their sacred cows.

......

After all, George Lucas was able to get away with making sweeping changes to the beloved franchise because he was its equally-beloved creator.  He'd already managed to sell his audience on the idea that "I always meant to do X" when he was doing the Special Editions of the original trilogy movies, so the Star Wars fans seem to have been willing to take his sweeping and often ill-advised changes in stride.  (There was still at some complaining, e.g. "Han shot first".)

Recency bias also plays some sort of role here, I'm sure. I remember all the hardcore fans ragging on the Sequels for having "bad" lightsaber fights and thinking back to the supposedly good old days of the mid-2000s and... all the hardcore fans ragging on the Prequels for having "bad" lightsaber fights. Star Wars might be seen as poorly-written only now, but it's only building on the weak foundation that was allowed before.

Creators shouldn't be scared of changing what doesn't work, and fans shouldn't be scared of Star Wars changing, maybe even drastically.

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

One of the very first things we learn about the Jedi and the Old Republic in A New Hope is that "for over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic."  Everything else we've got built on that, which made the Jedi out to be fundamentally and intrinsically intertwined with the Republic.  The prequels took that idea and ran with it, and from what I can find on a quick search the old Star Wars Expanded Universe was already running with that idea for years before the prequels did.

I mean, yeeeah, but that was an old Jedi Knight reminiscing nostalgically. He speaks of the Jedi Knights the way, say, Sam Seaborn talks about the US of A (first thing that came to mind, dunno why):

It's timestamped to provide some context, but at about 2:29 he waxes poetic about the US thusly: "This country is an idea, and one that has lit the world for two centuries! And treason against that idea is not just a crime against the living!"

It's rhetorical language, it's theatrical language. It's language meant not necessarily to strictly convey facts, but to express a mood, an emotion, a devotion to and expression of a personal ideal.

 

EDIT: Yes, let's make this wall of text wallier.

3 hours ago, Big s said:

I’m still having shaved wookie nightmares.

Is she bald? I thought Kelnacca just had neatly-combed and -styled hair. Granted I wasn't looking very hard...

Edited June 15 by kajnrig

[Big s]

13 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Is she bald? I thought Kelnacca just had neatly-combed and -styled hair. Granted I wasn't looking very hard...

It’s shaved on the sides of the head. I really wasn’t looking either, but as soon as I saw it, I couldn’t unnotice it. Now it haunts me

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, kajnrig said:

If this were the case, I - again - would have liked that to be conveyed. This was my very assumption when no explicit reason was given, but as it is, it IS just an assumption and not corroborated by the show itself.

It is conveyed. 

In the meeting of the witches inner circle after the Jedi crashed the ascension ceremony, one of the witches replying to Mother Koril's proposal rules out violence by stating that if they were to spill even one drop of Jedi blood the Republic would destroy them. Another member of the inner circle does question whether the lives of four Jedi would really earn such a disproportionate response from the Republic, but the point stands and violence is ruled out. None of them seem to question that the possibility of military retaliation from the Republic is on the table, only how much it would take to provoke it.

Even if they're incorrect, that enough of them believe that the Jedi have enough backing from the Republic that going against the Jedi could result in their destruction effectively means the Jedi can strongarm the witches with near impunity with the implicit threat of force.

 

10 hours ago, kajnrig said:

See, if there were an implied "shared best practices" type thing between these Force-believing religions that would compel the Witches to allow the Jedi to test them, I would find that extraordinarily interesting. Like, perhaps they both strongly emphasize the importance of developing Force sensitivity as children, and the Jedi invoke that similar belief to the Witches as something of an olive branch to convince them to allow the Jedi to test them.

There would be practical reasons for that. After all, we've seen that it's possible to exercise force powers unconsciously and that could make an untrained user actually kind of dangerous in the wrong circumstances. Mild future sight like Anakin had is one thing, but imagine the kind of harm that could be caused if a panicky kid accidentally starts to use telekinesis. This is a galaxy full of architects who love sheer drops with little to nothing in the way of handrails after all.

Mind you, the impression I got was that it was more of a "ok officer, we're cooperating so don't shoot" sort of situation. Especially considering the discussion they have afterwards about the retaliation they might face if they took up arms against the Jedi.

 

10 hours ago, kajnrig said:

I mean, yeeeah, but that was an old Jedi Knight reminiscing nostalgically. He speaks of the Jedi Knights the way, say, Sam Seaborn talks about the US of A (first thing that came to mind, dunno why):

True, but then George Lucas ran with it literally and now we're stuck with it because that's what he built the prequels and their various spin-off media around and Disney is a little bit gunshy after having the fans rip them several new orifices of indeterminate purpose over the last couple years.

 

10 hours ago, kajnrig said:

EDIT: Yes, let's make this wall of text wallier.

That's my job. 😅😝

Edited June 15 by Seto Kaiba
Spelling error in the first sentence

[TangledThorns]

Observation:

I still don't have Disney+ but I have never seen a thread on a series this heavily analyzed here on this forum before.

Question:

Is that good or bad? lol

 

 

[Big s]

2 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

Observation:

I still don't have Disney+ but I have never seen a thread on a series this heavily analyzed here on this forum before.

Question:

Is that good or bad? lol

 

 

The show isn’t anywhere near as fun as the discussions about it. There’s some odd bits one person will catch that someone else hasn’t and you almost feel compelled to rewatch it to see what it was, but it’s usually stupid little things like shaved wookies or burning rocks that really don’t affect the story and other things like odd choices that don’t make sense, but are there anyway. 

[tekering]

1 hour ago, TangledThorns said:

Is that good or bad?

Surprisingly, it shows there's still interest in Disney Star Wars (despite how audiences responded to Ahsoka, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and The Book of Boba Fett)... 😶

 

...as opposed to Disney Marvel, whose Secret Invasion and Echo series were all-but ignored by general audiences. 😒

 

Perhaps Deadpool and Wolverine will manage to buck the trend... 🤔

It will surely earn more than The Mandalorian and Grogu will. 🤨

 

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

Observation:

I still don't have Disney+ but I have never seen a thread on a series this heavily analyzed here on this forum before.

Question:

Is that good or bad? lol

Hypothesis:

On its own, it is neither good nor bad.

Disney+'s The Acolyte is very much a "by fans, for fans" Star Wars series.  As such, the series is no ambassador to casual viewers because it's heavily invested in references to not only previous movies and TV shows, but comic books and novels too.  The sheer density of references and continuity nods and background gimmicks seems calculated to create that kind of analysis-focused conversation about the series.  So too does the show's obsession with keeping its dialog as vague as possible.

In context, it's a very bad thing.  Why?  Because The Acolyte's writers seem to have focused on achieving the maximum possible density of in-jokes and references to provoke that discussion and analysis instead of developing a compelling story, engaging characters, or interesting settings and set pieces.  They succeeded in provoking analytical discussion of the series, but because the story is so threadbare and the characters so flat and uninteresting a lot of that discussion is focused on the show's flaws, its questionable creative decisions, and the many holes in its style-over-substance storytelling.  That intense scrutiny seems to be fueling the negative opinion many viewers have of the series, since they are paying far more attention to the details than they normally would.

[Dynaman]

9 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

Observation:

I still don't have Disney+ but I have never seen a thread on a series this heavily analyzed here on this forum before.

Question:

Is that good or bad? lol

 

 

It just is.  If I did not have Disney+ anyway I would not be watching the show, but since I do have D+ I am watching it.  If it were not for Doctor Who (which has been great overall) I would probably have dropped D+

Edited June 18 by Dynaman

[Big s]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Disney+'s The Acolyte is very much a "by fans, for fans" Star Wars series.  As such, the series is no ambassador to casual viewers because it's heavily invested in references to not only previous movies and TV shows, but comic books and novels too.  The sheer density of references and continuity nods and background gimmicks seems calculated to create that kind of analysis-focused conversation about the series.  So too does the show's obsession with keeping its dialog as vague as possible.

I know there’s a few Easter eggs and such, but I don’t feel like as a casual that there is really much that needs background in this show for a person that hasn’t read the comics or watched the cartoons or played many of the video games other than a bit of minor context. The writing is so simplistic that it just doesn’t feel like a necessity. The majority of the discussions over the show are more focused on goofy mistakes of bad writing and situations that come about due to those errors. There’s things like the Witches and their use of the not force that some will want to go back into other media to see why they were persecuted or hated, but it’s pretty unnecessary in the end because the writers usually spell it out by saying that they tend to use the dark side magic and they’re called witches, so they must be on the opposite side of the spectrum because most entertainment usually makes witches the evil force of magic.

 Overall the show is underwhelming and has the most dull characters. It tends to have some really cringy moments, like that horrible two are many song and attack me now with all your strength speeches that anger the die hard fans that stand out because there’s just not really much great to talk about. It makes for a show that’s on the borderline between meh and this is pure trash, with the hope that things might teeter towards meh and might just roll past it on the ground to be an ok show, but not so far as to ever be a great show 

[pengbuzz]

On 6/15/2024 at 1:06 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

There would be practical reasons for that. After all, we've seen that it's possible to exercise force powers unconsciously and that could make an untrained user actually kind of dangerous in the wrong circumstances. Mild future sight like Anakin had is one thing, but imagine the kind of harm that could be caused if a panicky kid accidentally starts to use telekinesis. This is a galaxy full of architects who love sheer drops with little to nothing in the way of handrails after all.

Guess OSHA doesn't exist "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"...

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Big s said:

I know there’s a few Easter eggs and such, but I don’t feel like as a casual that there is really much that needs background in this show for a person that hasn’t read the comics or watched the cartoons or played many of the video games other than a bit of minor context.

Barring one or two points like the Barash Vow, I agree...

My point was not that it required deep knowledge of that secondary material to understand the story, but rather than the story was so threadbare that much of the entertainment value in the series seems to be around spotting the various references and in-jokes rather than anything to do with the narrative.

 

 

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

Guess OSHA doesn't exist "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"...

Never have done, lol.  Bottomless pits everywhere and nary a safety railing in sight.

[Big s]

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

Guess OSHA doesn't exist "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"...

OSHA’s standards force the bar in the first episode to have second floor rails. That’s how the bar owner mistakenly identified her. Plus that’s also the reason he went out of his way to go across the galaxy to point her out. It was a major setback to galactic safety ever since

[Big s]

48 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Barring one or two points like the Barash Vow, I agree...

 

Even that didn’t feel like it really needed much background information. It’s kinda more to keep the plot feeling more mysterious. I can see being curious and looking into it, but it’s basically laid out as to why he went super hippie that he had immense guilt over something that happened

[jvmacross]

Episode 4 was the first one I actually enjoyed and was left wanting more...dang

So...

Spoiler

...that Asian guy is the "Sith" lord? Either that...or maybe the twin girls' horned mother? Or is the Asian guy also a twin?

....anyway....best episode so far....hope it stays clear of anymore singing witches!

[Seto Kaiba]

What an imaginative title this latest episode has. 

"Day".

Spoiler

This time, we're on Khofar... with the wookiee.

It looks like Kelnacca lives in a wrecked spaceship.  He's doodled a bunch of crude yin-yang symbols and stuff on the walls.  Kind of half-expected to see that one S symbol every kid drew in the 90's for some reason.  What even was that?  We get to see him cooking, before it cuts back to Coruscant.

Oh yay, more Jedi temple stuff... I wonder if zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

They couldn't even be bothered to give this ginger Jedi instructor some non-generic dialog, so he's just dispensing vague adages about combat technique.  Osha greets Sol's boring padawan as she's intending to leave and thanks her for helping clear her name (even though she didn't actually do anything).  Osha seems determined to to the actual sensible thing and remove herself from the situation entirely and leave hunting Mae to the Jedi.  If she actually means that, it makes her the smartest lead character that the franchise has ever had.

Mae and Qimir land on Khofar in a ship that looks rather impractical and Qimir makes the reasonable assertion that wandering off into an uncharted forest is a bad idea.  It seems Qimir has been scouting Mae's kills for her, as he mentions he's actually familiar with the local topography thanks to having hunted Kelnacca down for her.  

Back on Coruscant, we get to see some kind of Jedi situation room where a bunch of them are standing analyzing a recording of Mae's technique and commenting that she has speed but not strength, but has at least some skill.  Sol asserts that Mae doesn't actually know her master's identity, but that she does fear him.  Green Karen butts in to remind everyone that despite Sol's protests that Mae's not that good, she was able to escape him and kill two Jedi Masters.  She wants to avoid telling the Council, since the Council would have to tell the Senate and it would damage the Jedi's credibility.

I guess this is how they work around the point that everyone was saying was a retcon or continuity-breaking...

Spoiler

When pondering who trained her, the Jedi suspect a splinter group of Jedi... but never raise a Sith Lord as a possibility.

Green Karen sends Master Holden, a background character, to recover Kelnacca from his home on Khofar and intercept Mae.  

Sol invokes the first rule of being bad at your job in an action series... "Nobody could have survived that".  Sol points out that if Holden kills Mae, they won't be able to find out who trained her and what his agenda is.  Green Karen is convinced that it won't come to that.

Qimir is here asking some reasonable questions about how Mae is expecting to realistically kill a Jedi Master without using weapons.  Qimir claims he didn't make a deal with Mae's master, that he just owes him a debt and that this unseen master "collects people".  Neither of them have seen his face.  

Sol's genius plan to catch Mae?  Use Osha as bait.  Super responsible space cop strikes again!  Osha actually does the reasonable thing and refuses to let Sol put her in mortal peril again for his own benefit, and Sol tries to persuade her.  He eventually does convince her to come along and we see her sitting in the back of Yord's briefing aboard Sol's ship.  Apparently Kelnacca hasn't bothered to answer transmissions for over a year.  We get to see Jecki attempt to explain what a Wookiee looks like to a local leader, and Yord attempts to confiscate the stun blaster Osha's carrying, seemingly just to be a dick.  We're told Kelnacca f'ed off into the woods and never came back.

Yord really is so far up his own arse he can see the backs of his own teeth.

The group get attacked in the forest by some kind of giant cicada/isopod creature that Sol cuts in half.

Qimir and Mae stop for a rest and hang a lampshade on how unreasonable it is to be expected to kill a Jedi without weapons or die trying.  Mae tricks him into a snare trap and announces she doesn't actually need to go through with this now that she knows Osha is alive.  Which is... also surprisingly reasonable.  She plans to avoid prison by giving the Jedi intel on her master.  She's unbalanced and violent, but not dumb.

Mae runs right into that obnoxious ferret creature Yord brought as a guide, and he sends up an alarm.  Mae runs into the ship intend to surrender herself, only to discover Kelnacca is already dead from a lightsaber wound to the chest.  This makes her realize her master is present, and he comes up on the Jedi from behind, intimidates Osha for a bit, and then throws all the Jedi with the Force when they rush him.

End of episode.

 

Hmmm...

Well, "Day" is definitely the strongest episode of The Acolyte thus far... but in all fairness, that is an embarrassingly low bar to clear at this point.

Practically nothing of any real importance happens in this episode outside of the last four or so minutes.  It's mostly just watching Jedi committee meetings and then watching two groups take a long dull hike in a forest until you get to the very end, where...

Spoiler

Mae's master decides to show himself.

Next episode might actually have some excitement in it.

 

That said, the story is still really threadbare and halfhearted feeling.  

Spoiler

In particular, they're leaning really hard into the "Is Qimir really Mae's master?" angle and somehow they have to get out of this without revealing that Mae's master is a Sith Lord.

Whether it's Qimir or not under that goofy helmet, because they've leaned hard enough into it it's going to be a disappointing reveal either way.  It either begs the question of how Qimir is basically teleporting offscreen or why we waited all this time to introduce the new guy.

Not to mention when he rolls up to the party at Kelnacca's house, he's dressed all in black with a goofy helmet that seems to have teeth sculpted into it and he's wielding a red lightsaber.  The Jedi either have to pick up the idiot ball and assume there's no way he could be a Sith Lord despite looking every inch the part or they have to all end up dead (and Osha too) in order for nobody to bring back word that a Sith Lord is active in the galaxy.

I think that's going to be the biggest problem in the story, besides the cast of hopelessly unlikeable characters.  Qimir's basically the only likeable character in the story thus far, because he's the only one with an actual personality.

 

[Big s]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Osha greets Sol's boring padawan as she's intending to leave and thanks her for helping clear her name (even though she didn't actually do anything).

 

I thought that was a strange thing until getting drinks was mentioned. That’s when the motivation for the conversation became obvious 

[Mog]

They

Spoiler

should have made those no-name Jedi wear red-shirts.  They ain’t surviving.

I was definitely shaking my head when Osha touched that tree-hugging rolly-polly. 🤦🏻‍♂️

And yeah, they’re not exactly making the Jedi look all that great.  Height of their power my azz. 

We sure Dooku didn’t just read up on this era, and decided to deuce out for how stupid and incompetent the Jedi already were, even then?

 

[Big s]

Spoiler

43 minutes ago, Mog said:

I was definitely shaking my head when Osha touched that tree-hugging rolly-polly. 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

Those were rather easy to see, I have no idea why they were that stupid about them.