Has anyone made a timeline of the timeline?

[Jeff J]

That title is admittedly kind of confusing, but what I generally mean is has anyone documented the evolution of the official Macross timeline? So for instance, take Macross II. When it was released, the "official timeline" had it placed 80 years after DYRL. Then a few years later, it was established that Macross II was set in an alternate universe, and that was the case for a few decades. Now, it's back in the official timeline (I think; most of my knowledge of the Macross timeline comes from the late 90s through mid-2000s and is based on the research of Egan Loo of Macross Compendium). I'm far less interested in what the last iteration of the timeline says about Macross II, and more interested in how its place in the chronology has shifted. Hence, a good Macross II historian (IMO) would be sure to say it started as A, then became B, and is now C, or something like that.

This is a pretty broad question, so maybe I can narrow down the ask with a few specific questions:

1) When did they come up with the decision that DYRL was an in-universe, movie re-telling of SDFM? Was it when the movie was released or was that decided years afterward?

2) Were games like Macross 2036, Macross Eternal Love Song, or Digital Mission VF-X ever considered part of the official canon? I vaguely recall an old Animerica issue from 1998 or so that made it seem like PC-Engine CD games were...

Thanks. 

[sketchley]

2 hours ago, Jeff J said:

1) When did they come up with the decision that DYRL was an in-universe, movie re-telling of SDFM? Was it when the movie was released or was that decided years afterward?

If memory serves, it was when M+ and M7 were released.  In short: they needed to pick a definitive timeline (as the 2 versions differ), and opted for "TV series story, movie designs".

 

2 hours ago, Jeff J said:

2) Were games like Macross 2036, Macross Eternal Love Song, or Digital Mission VF-X ever considered part of the official canon? I vaguely recall an old Animerica issue from 1998 or so that made it seem like PC-Engine CD games were...

 

Digital Mission VF-X (and its successor VF-X2) are part of the official timeline—along with Macross M3 and Macross 30.  As Macross 2036 and Macross Eternal Love Song are part of the Macross II timeline (if memory serves), if they were ever part of an 'official' timeline, they were moved to the alternative one when Macross II was first deemed to be in an alternative universe (which happened at the same time as the answer to 1 above).

Edited February 25 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

38 minutes ago, Jeff J said:

That title is admittedly kind of confusing, but what I generally mean is has anyone documented the evolution of the official Macross timeline?

That is a topic I'm working on.

I haven't published anything for yet, but it is a topic I've been researching for a while now.

 

38 minutes ago, Jeff J said:

1) When did they come up with the decision that DYRL was an in-universe, movie re-telling of SDFM? Was it when the movie was released or was that decided years afterward?

As @sketchley said, that new view of the film was something that was introduced at the time that Macross Plus and Macross 7 were coming out.

 

38 minutes ago, Jeff J said:

2) Were games like Macross 2036, Macross Eternal Love Song, or Digital Mission VF-X ever considered part of the official canon? I vaguely recall an old Animerica issue from 1998 or so that made it seem like PC-Engine CD games were...

Macross 2036 and Macross: Eternal Love Song were made as promotional tie-ins with the OVA Macross II: Lovers Again and they were the first Macross video games to be officially included in a Macross series official chronology in 1992.  Presumably they share in their parent project's move to "parallel world" status c.1994.

Macross Digital Mission VF-X was assumed to be a part of the official setting for a long time but I don't recall seeing any official confirmation of it until Macross Chronicle gave the game's characters and mecha some coverage.

Based on available information, it seems like the only games that are part of the ongoing official setting are M3, the two VF-X games, and 30.

[TehPW]

18 hours ago, Jeff J said:

That title is admittedly kind of confusing, but what I generally mean is has anyone documented the evolution of the official Macross timeline? So for instance, take Macross II. When it was released, the "official timeline" had it placed 80 years after DYRL. Then a few years later, it was established that Macross II was set in an alternate universe, and that was the case for a few decades. Now, it's back in the official timeline (I think; most of my knowledge of the Macross timeline comes from the late 90s through mid-2000s and is based on the research of Egan Loo of Macross Compendium). I'm far less interested in what the last iteration of the timeline says about Macross II, and more interested in how its place in the chronology has shifted. Hence, a good Macross II historian (IMO) would be sure to say it started as A, then became B, and is now C, or something like that.

This is a pretty broad question, so maybe I can narrow down the ask with a few specific questions:

1) When did they come up with the decision that DYRL was an in-universe, movie re-telling of SDFM? Was it when the movie was released or was that decided years afterward?

2) Were games like Macross 2036, Macross Eternal Love Song, or Digital Mission VF-X ever considered part of the official canon? I vaguely recall an old Animerica issue from 1998 or so that made it seem like PC-Engine CD games were...

Thanks. 

*cracks knuckles*

I am gonna propose Two (2) thoughts on this, one from a SI Point of View (someone living in the Macross universe) and from a Otaku POV.

• The SI POV: The TV shows are the universe. The video games are Video games depicting events that occur OFF Camera from the TV Shows (They happened. The amaze ball over the top visuals are dramatic artistic license). The Movies are ALL BIOPICs of events that happened in the TV show universe, On & Off Camera (They happened. Maybe not exactly as depicted in the TV shows; example: Kakazaki and Fokker die but differently in DYRL, MF's Sniper boi dies in TV but does not in his biopic [maybe the actor hired to play Michael Blanc protested to someone and they changed MF:TM-SnT's script], etc.). 
• The Otaku POV: Macross, like other media IP (Star Trek, Star Wars, MSG, Battletech/Mechwarrior, Transformers, ULTRAMAN... Gojira) that has its existing baggage of history, will be argued to death long after humanity has faded from the stage.

I am a proponent of the idea that everything besides TV exists to enhance and improve our individual mind's eye (aka Head cannon!!) of our various beloved IP. In the case of video games and OVA & Movies from the Macross universe, i think TPTB already established president: DYRL is already viewed as a BIO Pic of the events from the TV series, in the macross universe. Same circumstance with the video games (dramatic depictions of actual events IU, presented in the form of a game). As to Macross II: LA's place in all this? I site RL experience: The movie, Starship Troopers, was made by Paul Verhoenen. EVERY OTHER movie, in the so-called Heinlein universe, is NOT made by Mr. Verhoeven. Who is say that someone, in the Macross universe, purchased the rights to make M:LA (and the two video games that march in the M:LA side universe) as a sequel to DYRL (for the RL honest reason of simply making a Yen on the coat tails of DYRL?). It's already established as having had happened (Macross Zero the movie, seen being filmed in Macross Frontier's TV run)...

Thoughts?

 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, TehPW said:

Thoughts?

Just one... which is that none of that has anything to do with the OP's questions.

They aren't Watsonian/Doylist matters of perspective.  They're real world production questions with objective answers... "After, c.1994" and "Yes" respectively.

 

 

WRT the rest of your post, I think you're making it much more complicated than it needs to be.

According to Kawamori, Macross runs on broad strokes continuity.  He's used a couple different analogies to explain this simple point over the years, like that each Macross series is a dramatization of historical events, but they all mean the same thing.  He's not going to get bogged down in the details.  If he's going to reference the events of past stories, he'll stick with the key bullet points only so that he's not locked into only one interpretation of past events while he's developing new stories.  Some works join up more of the dots than others but none of them try to lock into a single rigid interpretation of in-universe history.

The existence of in-universe dramatizations of past events are basically fun little in-jokes playing with the franchise's multiple choice past and vehicles for a bit of fanservice that can emphasize connections to past titles.  They've always been presented as historical dramas, including the ones that are only mentioned but not seen.  They've never suggested Macross II is an in-universe film like DYRL? is, though it's been a fan theory for a while based on the reuse of Macross II's music in Macross 7, and AFAIK they've never suggested the games are in-universe games.

[TG Remix]

On 2/25/2024 at 2:03 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Based on available information, it seems like the only games that are part of the ongoing official setting are M3, the two VF-X games, and 30.

Which strikes me as weird since Macross Chronicle also references the Queadluun-Nona, which was from the Saturn/PS1 Do You Remember Love? game. Wonder why nothing else was given a mention, much less a sentence, considering even the ones who were stuck in the Advanced Valkyrie series (The V-BR-2, VA-X-3, etc.) also had a mention in the official setting.

 

 

[sketchley]

30 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Which strikes me as weird since Macross Chronicle also references the Queadluun-Nona, which was from the Saturn/PS1 Do You Remember Love? game. Wonder why nothing else was given a mention, much less a sentence, considering even the ones who were stuck in the Advanced Valkyrie series (The V-BR-2, VA-X-3, etc.) also had a mention in the official setting.

The mecha that appeared in the "Macross Chronicle Mechanic Other*" pages are a bit of a grey area.  One gets the impression that they were included because that magazine had both access to the designs and wanted to be completionists when it came to Kawamori Shoji's and Kazutaka Miyatake's Macross related artwork.

The Quadoran-Nona isn't the only thing to crop up from the Saturn/PS1 DYRL game: the Meltrandi Assault Plunder Ship and Zentradi Jamming Station also get a write-up: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/Other06aHatchetAnnabellaLasiodora.php#reverse

Those three vehicles make a bit of sense, because that game is essentially an embellishment of the TV series and movie.  However, the page with the VF-X-7, Ghost Valkyrie, VF-X-11, VA-X-3, V-BR-2, and Stampede Valkyrie is much more confusing.  None of them are apparently part of the official setting! 🤷‍♂️ http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/Other09Astampedvalkyrie.php

 

* http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/MCRmechanic.php#Other

Edited February 26 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

Which strikes me as weird since Macross Chronicle also references the Queadluun-Nona, which was from the Saturn/PS1 Do You Remember Love? game. Wonder why nothing else was given a mention, much less a sentence, considering even the ones who were stuck in the Advanced Valkyrie series (The V-BR-2, VA-X-3, etc.) also had a mention in the official setting.

Apart from @sketchley's excellent explanation, it might be more helpful to think not merely in terms of what is covered in Macross Chronicle but of what specific stories end up referenced by other stories within the official Macross setting.

For example, in creator interviews for Macross Frontier Shoji Kawamori mentions that the events of Macross VF-X2 played a pretty significant role in shaping the political landscape and worldview of the Macross Frontier story.  Those events are also referenced much more directly in the Macross Frontier light novel Macross the Ride and in Macross Delta, where characters in both stories directly participated in those events and that conflict in turn led to other conflicts more directly involved in the present day of their stories.

 

[Jeff J]

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

Speaking of the Saturn/PS1 game, the Macross Perfect Collection trading cards featured shots from the game's intro cut scene as if it were part of the actual movie. Or at least I'm pretty sure they did; my set is stored away so I can't reference them at this moment. I collected the cards before I got my PS1 copy, and I recall being confused because I didn't recognize the scenes featured on the cards. Anyway, I tend to think the destruction of the Prometheus, as depicted in the game, is canon. 

 

Edit: actually, I take that back. I don't remember if the dialogue in the actual movie is in line with the cut scene intro. 

Edited February 26 by Jeff J