Jeff J Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) Hey all, The OG Macross series has been my favorite TV show of any kind ever since the 1990s. I'd rewatch it every few years, but it kind stayed on the backburner longer than usual. I'm obviously older and a lot of big life events for me happened since the last watching, plus I consumed a lot of other TV/movies since then for comparison. I thought it might be fun to look back at the series, nostalgia glasses (mostly) off, and give some general thoughts on how I view the series in 2024. (Sorry in advance for rambling on. I bolded main topics if you just want to skim.) I probably wouldn't recommend the show for most new viewers. It really hurts to say that. I'm overly protective of the series, but not so much that I don't see its faults. Also, because I'm a big fan, it would sting if I encouraged someone to watch the show only for that person to come back to me with a laundry list of complaints. The uneven animation and incomplete sound effects are a given, and not everyone would enjoy an early 80s Japanese pop soundtrack. But beyond that, I think the show's focus on a love triangle and a lot of the frustrating dramatic interruptions might feel like a tired cliche for a lot of folks who've seen a lot of that stuff in other fiction. More importantly, I think the principal characters engage in some troublesome behavior that people in real life need to avoid. There are also a few lines that Hikaru and Global say that are kind of outdated thinking about women and may be construed as offensive. Don't get me wrong, I think there is an audience out there, but I think the people to whom I'd recommend the show would mostly be either older fans who are into exploring retro stuff or younger viewers who are open-minded to more things and won't complain about visuals or get caught up in comparing this to series with modern ones. Even if I wouldn't recommend it to most, it doesn't make me love the show less, because regardless of whatever other people think, the show still resonates with me. Sci-fi is always tougher to sell to general audiences. There's no one-size-fits all for any genre, and sci-fi can be particularly hit-or-miss. The broadstroke themes of the show are, IMO, timeless. A lot of the show's plot elements have to be hand-waved by saying, "It's a kid's show." These days, I'm quite fine with that. In the past few years, I've actually come to enjoy kid shows and movies whereas in my teens and twenties I probably would've demanded more practicality or, dare I say, realism. I don't always agree with this Grant Morrison's quote, but I think it adequately describes why Macross is fine the way it is: "Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real." In the past, I'd probably be apologetic about how silly it is that they would reconstruct the city within the ship, but these days I'm quite fine saying, "Because it's a kid's show and having the city with normalish civilian life inside adds to the show's appeal." If I had to apply 2024 vernacular to describe some of the characters, I'd say Hikaru is a simp. Okay, that's nothing new, we all know his issues, but in 2024 we have a word for him that we didn't back in the 1980s or 1990s. However... Misa is also a simp. This is something that wasn't really brought up a lot in my Macross fan circles 20-25 years ago. Back then, Misa was probably seen as the most sympathetic (or should I say pitiable) character of the main three, and I think that's still the case. But so much of the conversation was around things like, "Rick (intentional use of Robotech names) is too blind to see what he has in Lisa!" when Misa (and Lisa, for that matter) exhibited a lot of the same, silly behavior of sitting and waiting for something to happen insteading of actively doing something about it, which Hikaru was guilty of. Claudia serves as the show's voice of reason (no coincidence that she's also the narrator), but one thing she fails to do that a good, real life mentor would is something along the lines of, "Misa, your relationship with Hikaru hasn't progressed much in two years, and he's still pining after Minmay. Huge warning signs! But if you really insist, fish or cut bait NOW instead of prolonging your misery!" Max is a chad. He is that guy. 😜 The worst part subplot of the series is Misa's crush on Kaifun. If you hate love triangles, then this just adds to the frustration. If you're tolerant of love triangles, then at least you're going to want to add something of real substance, but the quadrangle of Hikaru/Misa/Minmay/Kaifun has one edge that is clearly weaker than the rest. Kaifun was supposed to be able to shake Misa's confidence in her career and life mission largely because Kaifun reminded her of Riber, but that largely fell flat for me. They probably could've found a way for Kaifun to be able to challenge Misa on an intellectual and philosophical level without involving any romantic feelings on Misa's part. Anyway, to me it's quite telling that her feelings for him went away just like that. A couple episodes after going to see the movie because Kaifun is in it, she simply says she's not interested in him anymore. Speaking of Kaifun... Kaifun-centric scenes are a drag. I don't say that simply because he's one of the show's villains and we root against him. He fulfills the role of a villain pretty well, particularly in later episodes, but he's also not interesting enough that I care to see him on screen that much. During my rewatch, I noticed that the episodes that I remembered the least were the ones that featured Kaifun the most. While the back nine episodes are a mixed bag, I'm overall happy we got them because the pros outweigh the cons. The biggest complaints I've read are that they're superfluous, not as interesting as the first 27, and drag out the love triangle. I definitely see the point about the love triangle comments, and I understand if people don't find it as interesting as prior episodes, but they are important for world-building. We learn that humanity is NOT the Protoculture. We meet Komilia. We get a defined path forward for Earth and we get a great speech from Global why they're proceeding the way they are. Roy comes back for a flashback episode. More importantly, these episodes handle topics where most sequels struggle, namely just because the war is over doesn't mean the struggles are done. The Zentradi dissent is a great, underrated aspect of the show. I especially love Quamzin's character arc, specifically how he overcomes the Zentradi weaknesses of getting paralyzed in the presence of culture (and even being able to create culture, LOL) and become self-sufficient with repairs and engineering. He's quite the charismatic villain, but I also like how Hikaru disrespects him so much he says, "It's Quamzin, of course [the diversion plan] will work." The biggest thing I'd change about the back nine is change the timeline of the relationship development, because two years of stagnation doesn't feel quite right, but I dismiss the idea that the show should've ended at 27. I like Minmay more. Back in the 1990s, I always defended the character against the haters, so this might not be the type of transformation you're thinking of. But after my wife asked me to watch 500 Days of Summer, I read some of the reactions and commentary to the film and saw some had application to Macross. In particular, Joseph Gordon Levitt's character had an unhealthy attraction to Zoe Deschanel's Summer, which parallel's Hikaru's attraction to Minmay. Fans of 500 often ended up over-sympathizing with JGL's character and villified ZD's character, which wasn't the creator's intent and certainly not a take JGL agreed with. I think some fans over-sympathized with Hikaru's frustration and just ended up blaming Minmay for causing his heartache, or (incorrectly, IMO) blaming her for getting in between Hikaru and Misa, when Hikaru himself admitted it was his own fault for not talking about his feelings. I think the Minmay hate gets worsened by her portrayal in Robotech, and the Robotech novelizations made her straight up toxic. But really, what does she do wrong besides frustrate our protagonist? She's pretty honest in her feelings, or at least tries to be, but a lot of fans attributed her lack of reciprocation as malice or manipulation, which is unfortunate. And somewhat ironically, the youngest member of the show's main trio is the only one who didn't need a world-changing event like the apocalypse or being shipped off light years away to (try to) communicate her feelings. So good for her. My theory is Robotech writers wanted young fans watching the show not to feel bad about "Rick" choosing "Lisa" instead of "Minmay" so they pushed Rick/Lisa more than Macross did and made Minmay far less likable, less self-aware, and more selfish. Going back to the 1990s, there seemed to be this nearly consensus agreement that Minmay's portrayal in Robotech was more or less than same as in Macross, which always bugged me because I knew that not to be true. I hope that sentiment of sameness has been mostly debunked by now... I went from loving DYRL to merely liking it. Probably the closest thing to a hot take here, but I'm just trying to be honest instead of stirring controversy. I was introduced to the movie in the mid-90s through the awful Clash of the Bionoids. What I missed out on was that feeling of first watching the movie as intended, with the original cast and soundtrack and without the edits and bad dubbing. Watching a clean fansub was a fantastic experience, but already knowing the story kind of robbed me of the joy that comes from a first viewing. So why do I only like it now instead of love? It's because I love the original series too much with all of its details that simply couldn't be translated into the movie. The movie is still a great visual treat, giving Macross the designs and quality animation the story deserves, and it nonetheless added to my enjoyment of the franchise, but DYRL is still Macross-lite storywise. The movie still relies on having prior knowledge from the series for full enjoyment. As a standalone movie, it's good, but not nearly as emotionally impactful. Also, something that's become kind of off-putting for me is reading stories about how people would stand and applaud at THE SLAP. It's hard for me to love the movie as much if people cite THE SLAP as the "best scene," catharsis for all the (undeserved, IMO) antipathy built up against the character from the show. It's doubly true when said fans hated Minmay because of Robotech, which reinterpreted her in a way that wasn't quite intended. To be clear, I'm NOT saying she didn't deserve the slap. She had to be brought back to her senses, but I think large amount of fans relishing in the slap is unfortunate. If you made it this far, thanks for indulging me by reading. Peace. Edited February 5 by Jeff J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talonlm Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Well, you'll end up stirring some pots here and there with this, but I think you're spot on with most of this. I had very much the same exposure to Robotech and the same Clash of the Bionoids as you. Bought the Robotech books and then discovered Macross II. Bootlegged anything I could find Macross after that (Limewire, anyone?). I enjoyed Robotech for what it was--the first sci-fi drama I really bit into that happened to be a converted anime story. Love it for the mecha, love it for the characters, and I loved it for the story. And it led me to some very good Macross series shows after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 's definitely a mixed bag, opinion-wise... but I feel like several of these are unduly harsh "hot takes" or simple failures to acknowledge context. 3 hours ago, Jeff J said: I probably wouldn't recommend the show for most new viewers. It really hurts to say that. I'm overly protective of the series, but not so much that I don't see its faults. Also, because I'm a big fan, it would sting if I encouraged someone to watch the show only for that person to come back to me with a laundry list of complaints. The uneven animation and incomplete sound effects are a given, and not everyone would enjoy an early 80s Japanese pop soundtrack. But beyond that, I think the show's focus on a love triangle and a lot of the frustrating dramatic interruptions might feel like a tired cliche for a lot of folks who've seen a lot of that stuff in other fiction. More importantly, I think the principal characters engage in some troublesome behavior that people in real life need to avoid. [...] TBH, I probably also wouldn't use Super Dimension Fortress Macross to introduce someone to the franchise unless it was something they'd shown a direct interest in. It's showing its age. That said, I think a lot of what you're complaining about is pretty trivial stuff that even casual anime viewers wouldn't really bat an eye at given the age of the series. 3 hours ago, Jeff J said: A lot of the show's plot elements have to be hand-waved by saying, "It's a kid's show." These days, I'm quite fine with that. In the past few years, I've actually come to enjoy kid shows and movies whereas in my teens and twenties I probably would've demanded more practicality or, dare I say, realism. This is a borderline nonsensical criticism though, IMO. Macross was written for a high school-aged audience. I guess that would make it "young adult" fiction if we were desperate to categorize it. That said, Macross is science fiction... almost anyone watching it is not expecting gritty realism from it. The genre pretty much demands a modicum of suspension of disbelief to facilitate the more fanciful or scientifically-unrealistic aspects of the narrative. Especially given that it's robot anime. That in and of itself demands strained realism. 3 hours ago, Jeff J said: Hikaru is a simp. Okay, that's nothing new, we all know his issues, but in 2024 we have a word for him that we didn't back in the 1980s or 1990s. However... No, he's not. Hikaru Ichijo is a relatively normal 16 year old boy who spends the early parts of the series nursing a crush on the pretty girl (Minmay) he met and got close to during a few days they spent alone together. He and Minmay spend a good chunk of the early series giving each other mixed signals like the awkward teenagers they are before their jobs start to make things difficult for them and rivals emerge in the form of Misa and Kaifun. Pretty typical stuff for a Japanese teenage romance story, y'know? He's not desperate for her attention or putting her on a pedestal... he's just as indecisive and awkward as she is, that's where the tension comes from. 3 hours ago, Jeff J said: Misa is also a simp. This is something that wasn't really brought up a lot in my Macross fan circles 20-25 years ago. Back then, Misa was probably seen as the most sympathetic (or should I say pitiable) character of the main three, and I think that's still the case. But so much of the conversation was around things like, "Rick (intentional use of Robotech names) is too blind to see what he has in Lisa!" when Misa (and Lisa, for that matter) exhibited a lot of the same, silly behavior of sitting and waiting for something to happen insteading of actively doing something about it, which Hikaru was guilty of. She isn't either, to be frank. Misa's also a relatively normal awkward teenager. She's got some emotional baggage the other characters don't because she's the daughter of a prominent family and therefore tries to maintain the family reputation and because her first love died tragically in an infamous massacre during the Unification Wars. She's indecisive and inexperienced in love because, hey, she's spent the last couple years throwing herself into her work to avoid unpacking the love life-adjacent trauma. (This is also a Japanese series, so some of that passivity is simply cultural differences.) Robotech made the characters several years older than they were in the original story, and I feel like that often skews people's expectations of the characters in Macross. 3 hours ago, Jeff J said: The worst part subplot of the series is Misa's crush on Kaifun. Kaifun is such a useful hate-sink, though... and he does serve a useful purpose in that he gives a voice to the civilian population who are, by that point, pretty stressed out after a good few months in space being shot at. He makes the other characters question their role in the war. That's especially important for Misa's development, considering that she's used her duty to hide from her feelings, her repressed emotional trauma, and so on. He's a one-two punch that reminds her of her trauma and makes her question the duty she's used to hide from it. You're 100% meant to hate his guts, but he serves an important purpose in Macross's anti-war narrative. 3 hours ago, Jeff J said: I think the Minmay hate gets worsened by her portrayal in Robotech, and the Robotech novelizations made her straight up toxic. But really, what does she do wrong besides frustrate our protagonist? She's pretty honest in her feelings, or at least tries to be, but a lot of fans attributed her lack of reciprocation as malice or manipulation, which is unfortunate. And somewhat ironically, the youngest member of the show's main trio is the only one who didn't need a world-changing event like the apocalypse or being shipped off light years away to (try to) communicate her feelings. So good for her. My theory is Robotech writers wanted young fans watching the show not to feel bad about "Rick" choosing "Lisa" instead of "Minmay" so they pushed Rick/Lisa more than Macross did and made Minmay far less likable, less self-aware, and more selfish. Going back to the 1990s, there seemed to be this nearly consensus agreement that Minmay's portrayal in Robotech was more or less than same as in Macross, which always bugged me because I knew that not to be true. I hope that sentiment of sameness has been mostly debunked by now... This has some decent perspective, though. A lot - and I mean a LOT - of the hate for Minmay comes from Robotech. Its rewritten dialogue and the fact that her voice actress was a pretty awful singer didn't endear her to the audience, and changes and cuts made to simplify the story removed some of her character development and made her seem selfish, bratty, and stupid. All in all, she's a victim of the budget and of the effort to de-emphasize the romance aspect of Macross in favor of playing up the space war side of things. Never mind the subsequent flanderization she'd suffered at the hands of the Sentinels materials... which frankly could be called "character assassination" with a straight face IMO. Macross's Minmay is a pretty typical teenage girl with big dreams of being a famous idol singer like her aunt. Her portrayal's a lot more positive and nuanced. She's shown to be quite the proficient singer and songwriter, having already landed an audition at a major label at the age of just 15. She maintains a sense of humor even under pressure, and can joke at her own expense. She weathers a near-death experience in wartime and goes on to nevertheless chase and attain her dream and discover the less glamorous sides of being an idol. She's as romantically indecisive as you'd expect from a teenager and she sends Hikaru a lot of mixed messages as a result, but in the end she's still a good person who legitimately cares about Hikaru and is doing her best in trying times even when the burden of morale is unceremoniously dumped on her shoulders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) I feel like Kaifun's most insufferable in the post-war arc. Like, it isn't a nonsensical character development, but he becomes much more overtly dickish and less motivated by any moral stance. He needs someone to blame for the apocalypse, he was already anti-military... so let's just go all in and blame them for everything ever. ... It doesn't help that Minmay's still pining for Hikaru and Kaifun's still got a thing for her. Edited February 6 by JB0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pengbuzz Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: 's definitely a mixed bag, opinion-wise... but I feel like several of these are unduly harsh "hot takes" or simple failures to acknowledge context. TBH, I probably also wouldn't use Super Dimension Fortress Macross to introduce someone to the franchise unless it was something they'd shown a direct interest in. It's showing its age. That said, I think a lot of what you're complaining about is pretty trivial stuff that even casual anime viewers wouldn't really bat an eye at given the age of the series. This is a borderline nonsensical criticism though, IMO. Macross was written for a high school-aged audience. I guess that would make it "young adult" fiction if we were desperate to categorize it. That said, Macross is science fiction... almost anyone watching it is not expecting gritty realism from it. The genre pretty much demands a modicum of suspension of disbelief to facilitate the more fanciful or scientifically-unrealistic aspects of the narrative. Especially given that it's robot anime. That in and of itself demands strained realism. No, he's not. Hikaru Ichijo is a relatively normal 16 year old boy who spends the early parts of the series nursing a crush on the pretty girl (Minmay) he met and got close to during a few days they spent alone together. He and Minmay spend a good chunk of the early series giving each other mixed signals like the awkward teenagers they are before their jobs start to make things difficult for them and rivals emerge in the form of Misa and Kaifun. Pretty typical stuff for a Japanese teenage romance story, y'know? He's not desperate for her attention or putting her on a pedestal... he's just as indecisive and awkward as she is, that's where the tension comes from. She isn't either, to be frank. Misa's also a relatively normal awkward teenager. She's got some emotional baggage the other characters don't because she's the daughter of a prominent family and therefore tries to maintain the family reputation and because her first love died tragically in an infamous massacre during the Unification Wars. She's indecisive and inexperienced in love because, hey, she's spent the last couple years throwing herself into her work to avoid unpacking the love life-adjacent trauma. (This is also a Japanese series, so some of that passivity is simply cultural differences.) Robotech made the characters several years older than they were in the original story, and I feel like that often skews people's expectations of the characters in Macross. Kaifun is such a useful hate-sink, though... and he does serve a useful purpose in that he gives a voice to the civilian population who are, by that point, pretty stressed out after a good few months in space being shot at. He makes the other characters question their role in the war. That's especially important for Misa's development, considering that she's used her duty to hide from her feelings, her repressed emotional trauma, and so on. He's a one-two punch that reminds her of her trauma and makes her question the duty she's used to hide from it. You're 100% meant to hate his guts, but he serves an important purpose in Macross's anti-war narrative. This has some decent perspective, though. A lot - and I mean a LOT - of the hate for Minmay comes from Robotech. Its rewritten dialogue and the fact that her voice actress was a pretty awful singer didn't endear her to the audience, and changes and cuts made to simplify the story removed some of her character development and made her seem selfish, bratty, and stupid. All in all, she's a victim of the budget and of the effort to de-emphasize the romance aspect of Macross in favor of playing up the space war side of things. Never mind the subsequent flanderization she'd suffered at the hands of the Sentinels materials... which frankly could be called "character assassination" with a straight face IMO. Macross's Minmay is a pretty typical teenage girl with big dreams of being a famous idol singer like her aunt. Her portrayal's a lot more positive and nuanced. She's shown to be quite the proficient singer and songwriter, having already landed an audition at a major label at the age of just 15. She maintains a sense of humor even under pressure, and can joke at her own expense. She weathers a near-death experience in wartime and goes on to nevertheless chase and attain her dream and discover the less glamorous sides of being an idol. She's as romantically indecisive as you'd expect from a teenager and she sends Hikaru a lot of mixed messages as a result, but in the end she's still a good person who legitimately cares about Hikaru and is doing her best in trying times even when the burden of morale is unceremoniously dumped on her shoulders. Agreed: I think a lot of the characterization in Macross got murdered by Carl Macek on the behest of HG, in order to "americanize" the series and make it palatable for this side of the Pacific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff J Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 14 hours ago, JB0 said: I feel like Kaifun's most insufferable in the post-war arc. Like, it isn't a nonsensical character development, but he becomes much more overtly dickish and less motivated by any moral stance. He needs someone to blame for the apocalypse, he was already anti-military... so let's just go all in and blame them for everything ever. ... It doesn't help that Minmay's still pining for Hikaru and Kaifun's still got a thing for her. I actually think they got Kaifun right in the post-war arc. His story is one of a downward spiral, and one of the central themes of the arc is that it's a struggle for everyone to adjust to the new normal. Thus, that he'd be bitter and become an alcoholic that would lead to being more abusive is, IMO, pretty good storytelling. Plus, we needed to create impetus for Minmay to want to cut herself off from him. 14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: This is a borderline nonsensical criticism though, IMO. Macross was written for a high school-aged audience. I guess that would make it "young adult" fiction if we were desperate to categorize it. That said, Macross is science fiction... almost anyone watching it is not expecting gritty realism from it. The genre pretty much demands a modicum of suspension of disbelief to facilitate the more fanciful or scientifically-unrealistic aspects of the narrative. Especially given that it's robot anime. That in and of itself demands strained realism. I don't think I was criticizing here. I was trying to say when I was 18-25 or so (and maybe 18-35), I probably would've said something like, "I wish the show gave a more realistic/practical explanation of how/why they could retrieve the buildings floating around in space, bring them into the ship, re-erect them, and get the electricity and water running, all in 12 days." These days, I say just go with it. I think "Kid's show" gets kind of bandied about like some sort of pejorative, when I think it shouldn't necessarily be thought of that way. And when I say Macross was a "kid's show," I say that as a compliment. "Kid's shows" don't use up screen time to explain nitty details but instead jump straight to engaging the viewers's imagination. Also, it's important to get appeal to younger viewers interested. I'm also a Superman fan, and somewhere I think WB and DC screwed up is they forgot to make their past few Superman movies appealing to younger audiences. That sort of leaves you with a rapidly-aging, shrinking audience, and waning interest in the IP. Compare that to something like Super Mario games or The Lego Movie where multiple generations of audience can enjoy. There's no one right way to do things, which is a change to my mindset since my early days of being a Macross fan. 14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: No, he's not. Hikaru Ichijo is a relatively normal 16 year old boy who spends the early parts of the series nursing a crush on the pretty girl (Minmay) he met and got close to during a few days they spent alone together. He and Minmay spend a good chunk of the early series giving each other mixed signals like the awkward teenagers they are before their jobs start to make things difficult for them and rivals emerge in the form of Misa and Kaifun. Pretty typical stuff for a Japanese teenage romance story, y'know? He's not desperate for her attention or putting her on a pedestal... he's just as indecisive and awkward as she is, that's where the tension comes from. She isn't either, to be frank. Misa's also a relatively normal awkward teenager. She's got some emotional baggage the other characters don't because she's the daughter of a prominent family and therefore tries to maintain the family reputation and because her first love died tragically in an infamous massacre during the Unification Wars. She's indecisive and inexperienced in love because, hey, she's spent the last couple years throwing herself into her work to avoid unpacking the love life-adjacent trauma. (This is also a Japanese series, so some of that passivity is simply cultural differences.) Robotech made the characters several years older than they were in the original story, and I feel like that often skews people's expectations of the characters in Macross. "Normal teenager" and bad decision making often go hand-in-hand, no? 😀 The show is predicated on a certain amount of relationship drama, and the drama results from a certain amount of dysfunction. If these three teens figured it all out quickly, it would certainly be a different show, and probably a less interesting one, too. If we tried to look at things objectively, or if we were somehow mentors/parents/counselors for Hikaru and Misa, and we wanted to give it to them straight instead of coddling them, I think most of us would say that they were making decisions that unnecessarily tortured themselves. They took unhealthy approaches to their relationships that needed correction, which is understandable given their age and circumstances, and gives the show its distinct personality, but (IMO) was nonetheless the wrong way to handle things. This is what I was alluding to when I said, "I think the principal characters engage in some troublesome behavior that people in real life need to avoid." Maybe there was a nicer way of saying that... And I think relationship drama is neither good nor bad, you just have to know your audience when you recommend a show. For some folks, these kind of rocky relationships or love triangles are just no-gos, which contributes to why I wouldn't immediately recommend this show to someone without knowing what that person is into. If I had to change one aspect of the back nine episodes, I'd probably adjust the timeline with respect to the relationships. Pretty much the only thing I'm not fully satisfied with is it feels like Hikaru and Misa are in relationship stasis/holding pattern throughout the two years between episodes 27 and 28. I thought it was kind of weird that she had the keys to his place and was washing up after him but the implication was that they weren't actually dating at that point. It just didn't feel right, at least not to me. I don't even mind the idea that Hikaru would be drawn back to Minmay even though he thought he conceded her away to Kaifun in 27. Stuff like that isn't unrealistic, especially given that he wasn't in a relationship. But going back to counselor mode, if we had to give advice to an 18-20 year-old kid and he told me he still has romantic feelings for someone he gave up two years ago, we'd probably all tell him either tell her or move on, just be decisive. And I'm fully aware of the production hell the creators had to go through. The animation and incomplete sound effects weren't the only thing affected by tight deadlines, so if the creators had less interference and a more forgiving schedule, they probably would've done things differently. 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TG Remix Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 If I can share my few cents on this, I'd say that despite its age SDF probably has the most compelling antagonists we have with the Zentradi; that isn't to say the ones afterward aren't great in their own right, but I think the message of unity and understanding hits the hardest in this series because the antagonists are just humans who were led into the wrong path of constant war because they were told that's what they were for, which parallels the Earth and it's UN quite nicely. So to hear not only Robotech botching their story to a pessimistic spiral of tragedy and seeing their increasing irrelevance and easy villain material after the original show hurts. Am I being a bit of a fanboy? Almost definitely, but I noticed a lack of Zentran in my SDF soup and I like the Regult noodles in there, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big s Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Macross is definitely a kids show. We basically call teenagers kids all the time, but they don’t get referred to as children. And I feel that Macross definitely wouldn’t be classified as a childrens show. 99.9 percent of all anime is designed for kids and there are a few rarities that truly are for adults. Visually more are for adults, but the stories are mostly still kids stories. It’s also not a bad thing to be a kids show and shouldn’t be an insult. As far as my thoughts on Dyrl, I love it. I don’t love it as much as the show though, but I still love it. The story is definitely too rushed and things make more sense with being able to see the series first. I absolutely love the animation and think it holds up really well today. Even though I love the Queadluun Rau in the series more, the enemy mecha has a more interesting thing going on with the biomechanics that make them feel more alien. It wasn’t until the recent Hasegawa kit of the Queadluun Rau that I started to realize how much of the designs were so biomechanic. The other thing that I was looking at were many poses in artwork that I didn’t even notice until I was trying to see certain shapes and how much I feel like I’m still discovering rewatching scenes from the movie. There’s also a certain sense of danger in a lot of the scenes. There were some great scenes in the series, but I feel like there was more tension. Overall, I still enjoy the series more than the film and if I knew a younger person that enjoys seeing some older shows or movies, then I would recommend it to them. There are a lot of young kids that do enjoy older stuff, even if most might not be too interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 8 hours ago, Jeff J said: I don't think I was criticizing here. I was trying to say when I was 18-25 or so (and maybe 18-35), I probably would've said something like, "I wish the show gave a more realistic/practical explanation of how/why they could retrieve the buildings floating around in space, bring them into the ship, re-erect them, and get the electricity and water running, all in 12 days." That's not exactly a typical reaction in sci-fi. Your usual sci-fi viewer will generally assume some kind of sci-fi shenanigans are in play when something like that happens... and/or that they're only seeing a portion of what's going on when you're dealing with a spaceship the size of a small town. (It helps that, in Macross, the process of rebuilding the city took a solid month not a few days.) 8 hours ago, Jeff J said: I think "Kid's show" gets kind of bandied about like some sort of pejorative, when I think it shouldn't necessarily be thought of that way. And when I say Macross was a "kid's show," I say that as a compliment. "Kid's shows" don't use up screen time to explain nitty details but instead jump straight to engaging the viewers's imagination. That's not really unique to younger viewers... that's a pretty normal viewer's reaction to sci-fi. The genre comes with the implicit understanding that implausible shenanigans will in fact ensue in the name of entertainment, and audiences generally roll with that unless the story is so badly executed that moon logic is required to join up the dots. 8 hours ago, Jeff J said: I'm also a Superman fan, and somewhere I think WB and DC screwed up is they forgot to make their past few Superman movies appealing to younger audiences. That sort of leaves you with a rapidly-aging, shrinking audience, and waning interest in the IP. Compare that to something like Super Mario games or The Lego Movie where multiple generations of audience can enjoy. This is actually a great example. Everyone sitting down to watch a superhero move takes it as read from the outset that implausible things can and will happen because superhero stories are inherently about implausible things. Whether the hero's power comes from literal magic, super-advanced technology, or just being a space alien that can do things the garden variety human can't, the audience takes it in stride because that's an underlying expectation of the genre as a whole. Warner Bros and DC's Superman movies don't struggle because people can't or won't suspend disbelief for Superman doing Superman things. That's more a fundamental issue of Superman being the quintessential boring invincible hero and consequently an unrelatable flat character. 8 hours ago, Jeff J said: "Normal teenager" and bad decision making often go hand-in-hand, no? 😀 Indeed... and that's part of what makes them relatable to the audience. Macross was made for an older teenage audience, so the main cast is three teenagers who are simultaneously grappling with transitioning from youthful innocence to the world of adult responsibility and with hapless, fumbling, teenage romance. We might look at it and say "wow, they're making unhealthy life choices" but... well... teenagers do that. I'm sure most of us have done at some point. Of course, they're also running on Japan's cultural standards from forty years ago which may seem odd or unhealthy to an audience that was not raised with those cultural standards. It's a product of the time and place where it was made, and almost anyone going to watch is going to understand that fact and likely not be that put off by anything that goes on in the series. Especially if they're familiar with anime in general and understand the basic premise that Japan's cultural standards are not the same as American, or British, or wherever we may happen to be from. (Now if you want to see an anime where a character is ACTUALLY simping for their love interest, I can name a few... but it's terribly undignified and I can't honestly recommend any of them as enjoyable.) 8 hours ago, Jeff J said: If I had to change one aspect of the back nine episodes, I'd probably adjust the timeline with respect to the relationships. Pretty much the only thing I'm not fully satisfied with is it feels like Hikaru and Misa are in relationship stasis/holding pattern throughout the two years between episodes 27 and 28. Now that I understand... though it is at least justified by the official materials that explain what was going on during the timeskip. Their relationship seems like it was in a holding pattern because it basically was while they were assigned to different places. Hikaru spent a good chunk of that time up on the moon flying patrols of near-Earth space. 8 hours ago, Jeff J said: I thought it was kind of weird that she had the keys to his place and was washing up after him but the implication was that they weren't actually dating at that point. It just didn't feel right, at least not to me. Never felt off to me, but then I've had the foreknowledge that she probably started looking after his place while he was away on assignment as a favor. (It's also an old cliche in a lot of Japanese romance stories... a real popular schtick in love triangles and harem titles where one participant is the childhood friend/girl next door.) 8 hours ago, Jeff J said: I don't even mind the idea that Hikaru would be drawn back to Minmay even though he thought he conceded her away to Kaifun in 27. Stuff like that isn't unrealistic, especially given that he wasn't in a relationship. But going back to counselor mode, if we had to give advice to an 18-20 year-old kid and he told me he still has romantic feelings for someone he gave up two years ago, we'd probably all tell him either tell her or move on, just be decisive. That's... not atypical relationship behavior for the unmarried at any age. The regrettable attempt to reconnect with the ex is a proudly undignified tradition that predates the written word and knows no boundaries of gender, nationality, creed, or anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff J Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 One specific observation I forgot to mention earlier: I don't think I ever read any behind-the-scenes comments on this, but one thing I always thought was strange was that even though the show relied a lot on reused animation, the team insisted upon re-animating the birthday gift scene in episode 29. Putting aside the sepia tones to make it more clearly a flashback, the re-animated scene just looks worse, making it IMO a confusing decision to use time/resources when stock animation would've made a lot of sense. At first I was thinking that perhaps they went for an artistic reinterpretation of the scene where Minmay's recall was imperfect, so why not animate the details slightly differently? However, the audio sounds almost exactly the same, which kind of squashes the imperfect recall theory. Also, it's the second of two flashbacks in that scene, the first's being when the VT-102 Battroid crashed into her room, and that reuses episode 2's animation (and thankfully so, considering the relatively high production value from episode 2). I wonder if there are other flashbacks that were redrawn that I might've missed/forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pengbuzz Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 16 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: That's not exactly a typical reaction in sci-fi. Your usual sci-fi viewer will generally assume some kind of sci-fi shenanigans are in play when something like that happens... and/or that they're only seeing a portion of what's going on when you're dealing with a spaceship the size of a small town. (It helps that, in Macross, the process of rebuilding the city took a solid month not a few days.) That's not really unique to younger viewers... that's a pretty normal viewer's reaction to sci-fi. The genre comes with the implicit understanding that implausible shenanigans will in fact ensue in the name of entertainment, and audiences generally roll with that unless the story is so badly executed that moon logic is required to join up the dots. This is actually a great example. Everyone sitting down to watch a superhero move takes it as read from the outset that implausible things can and will happen because superhero stories are inherently about implausible things. Whether the hero's power comes from literal magic, super-advanced technology, or just being a space alien that can do things the garden variety human can't, the audience takes it in stride because that's an underlying expectation of the genre as a whole. Warner Bros and DC's Superman movies don't struggle because people can't or won't suspend disbelief for Superman doing Superman things. That's more a fundamental issue of Superman being the quintessential boring invincible hero and consequently an unrelatable flat character. Indeed... and that's part of what makes them relatable to the audience. Macross was made for an older teenage audience, so the main cast is three teenagers who are simultaneously grappling with transitioning from youthful innocence to the world of adult responsibility and with hapless, fumbling, teenage romance. We might look at it and say "wow, they're making unhealthy life choices" but... well... teenagers do that. I'm sure most of us have done at some point. Of course, they're also running on Japan's cultural standards from forty years ago which may seem odd or unhealthy to an audience that was not raised with those cultural standards. It's a product of the time and place where it was made, and almost anyone going to watch is going to understand that fact and likely not be that put off by anything that goes on in the series. Especially if they're familiar with anime in general and understand the basic premise that Japan's cultural standards are not the same as American, or British, or wherever we may happen to be from. (Now if you want to see an anime where a character is ACTUALLY simping for their love interest, I can name a few... but it's terribly undignified and I can't honestly recommend any of them as enjoyable.) Now that I understand... though it is at least justified by the official materials that explain what was going on during the timeskip. Their relationship seems like it was in a holding pattern because it basically was while they were assigned to different places. Hikaru spent a good chunk of that time up on the moon flying patrols of near-Earth space. Never felt off to me, but then I've had the foreknowledge that she probably started looking after his place while he was away on assignment as a favor. (It's also an old cliche in a lot of Japanese romance stories... a real popular schtick in love triangles and harem titles where one participant is the childhood friend/girl next door.) That's... not atypical relationship behavior for the unmarried at any age. The regrettable attempt to reconnect with the ex is a proudly undignified tradition that predates the written word and knows no boundaries of gender, nationality, creed, or anything else. Not to mention that all of this is happening during what is pretty much the end of the world as we know it. That's going to make people a bit more clouded in their relationships I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 On 2/5/2024 at 12:01 PM, Jeff J said: I probably wouldn't recommend the show for most new viewers. It really hurts to say that. I'm overly protective of the series, but not so much that I don't see its faults. As one of the few OGs on this site, I would not recommend SDFM or DYRL either. Not because they're not good, but they're dated amongst all the other stuff out there. They (DYRL moreso than anything) is not as accessible (physically and possibly mentally) to newer viewers. There are more modern shows that are more accessible to modern viewers that provide the same thematic notes that SDFM hit. Certainly if someone wants to watch it, I wouldn't say no. But it's not the first choice versus the thousands of other shows out there. I'd probably recommend Frontier or Delta over SDFM because SDFM is older, maybe harder to source, and may not resonate with modern audiences as newer titles would. I would recommend Space Battleship Yamato 2199 over the original 1970s version for the same reason. It's just easier to get on-board with the newer stuff than trying to hunt for the older versions. I have said it many times, I AM NOT the target audience of Macross anymore. I want Macross to grow beyond me. Even if it means alienating me. I don't want it to be stuck in this perpetual nostalgia-cycle that the "other" franchise is stuck in with retreads of the "classic" characters. I want new audiences to come into Macross with the same enjoyment I had when I started down this path. Even if it means producing a new show that doesn't resonate with me. On 2/5/2024 at 12:01 PM, Jeff J said: A lot of the show's plot elements have to be hand-waved by saying, "It's a kid's show." It is a kid's show. A teenager's show. It's also a work of fiction. There's nothing real about it so looking for any sort of realism, gritty, concepts, this ain't it. If you want real and gritty, go walk out of the house and into the more colorful area of your neighborhood/town/city. Ain't nothin' real about a TV show. Macross is entertainment. Brain turns off and enjoys the show. It's also a 25-minute toy commercial with something-of-a-story to wrap around it. There are levels of kids shows but it's still a kid's show. I really wish people would stop associating "realism" or "gritty" with works of fiction. It's no less real or gritty than a guy dressing up in tights, and running out on the streets, beating up criminals. It's fiction. Enjoy the entertainment. There are also cultural differences between Western audiences and the original Japanese audience in what is perceived as a kid's show but I leave that to people more familiar. On 2/5/2024 at 12:01 PM, Jeff J said: ...think the Minmay hate gets worsened by her portrayal in Robotech, and the Robotech novelizations made her straight up toxic. But really, what does she do wrong besides frustrate our protagonist? She's pretty honest in her feelings, or at least tries to be, but a lot of fans attributed her lack of reciprocation as malice or manipulation, which is unfortunate. And somewhat ironically, the youngest member of the show's main trio is the only one who didn't need a world-changing event like the apocalypse or being shipped off light years away to (try to) communicate her feelings. So good for her. My theory is Robotech writers wanted young fans watching the show not to feel bad about "Rick" choosing "Lisa" instead of "Minmay" so they pushed Rick/Lisa more than Macross did and made Minmay far less likable, less self-aware, and more selfish. Going back to the 1990s, there seemed to be this nearly consensus agreement that Minmay's portrayal in Robotech was more or less than same as in Macross, which always bugged me because I knew that not to be true. I hope that sentiment of sameness has been mostly debunked by now... Unfortunately, that "other" franchise has done more than its share of "changes" that soured many things from Macross. This is why I wish it would just come up with its own IP, its own production, instead of relying on 40-year-old cartoons to form its core. Until it does, until it can stand on its own legs without the original works, it will never grow and forever taint the original materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 2 hours ago, Jeff J said: I always thought was strange was that even though the show relied a lot on reused animation, the team insisted upon re-animating the birthday gift scene in episode 29. Putting aside the sepia tones to make it more clearly a flashback, the re-animated scene just looks worse, making it IMO a confusing decision to use time/resources when stock animation would've made a lot of sense. At first I was thinking that perhaps they went for an artistic reinterpretation of the scene where Minmay's recall was imperfect, so why not animate the details slightly differently? I don't think people understand how productions work. Any productions. Any chance you can reuse an asset to save money is one you don't pass it up. And back in the days of hand-drawn & colored cels, you definitely do not pass up the opportunity to do so unless you want your animators to turn their pencils in fookin' weapons. It's why we get an occasional clip-show episode. It's why your favorite sci-fi show reuses VFX shots. It cost money to do new every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pengbuzz Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 7 minutes ago, azrael said: I don't think people understand how productions work. Any productions. Any chance you can reuse an asset to save money is one you don't pass it up. And back in the days of hand-drawn & colored cels, you definitely do not pass up the opportunity to do so unless you want your animators to turn their pencils in fookin' weapons. It's why we get an occasional clip-show episode. It's why your favorite sci-fi show reuses VFX shots. It cost money to do new every time. Not to mention time; animators, especially those in Asia, are often very overworked (I've heard of them sleeping on the studio floors during projects). Anything that can save them time and effort is a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff J Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 12 minutes ago, azrael said: I don't think people understand how productions work. Any productions. Any chance you can reuse an asset to save money is one you don't pass it up. And back in the days of hand-drawn & colored cels, you definitely do not pass up the opportunity to do so unless you want your animators to turn their pencils in fookin' weapons. It's why we get an occasional clip-show episode. It's why your favorite sci-fi show reuses VFX shots. It cost money to do new every time. Just to be clear, I'm asking why they didn't reuse the birthday gift animation. They used brand new, worse-looking, animation in episode 29 when it (seems like it) would've been so much easier just to reuse animation from episode 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treatment Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Just now, Jeff J said: Just to be clear, I'm asking why they didn't reuse the birthday gift animation. They used brand new, worse-looking, animation in episode 29 when it (seems like it) would've been so much easier just to reuse animation from episode 8. Animation work on the show were subcontracted. It is more than possible that the subcontractors who work on the episode did not have access to the previous animation. Or any, actually... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff J Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 1 minute ago, treatment said: Animation work on the show were subcontracted. It is more than possible that the subcontractors who work on the episode did not have access to the previous animation. Or any, actually... Fair point. I was also wondering if there were two sets of animation for the gift scene and they "accicentally" used the wrong one. The episode features animation from episode 2, FWIW. I can only guess putting together 29 was quite difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolt Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Everyone has their own take on the OG Macross stuff. So I appreciate the different opinions. I don't need to add my own , on that front. Nevertheless, whenever I rewatch SDFM , and especially DYRL, i love it every time. For what it is and when it was, it will always be great. That said, i also believe they hold up pretty good too! As far as story , action and character development go (not talking animation quality or consistency..), the OG Macross was quality. I think that's why many would love a reboot. BUT... I would recommend Macross Frontier all day to anyone interested in Macross. The OG stuff would be more , well, for the OG's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camk4evr Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Whenever people ask me to recommend a Macross series, I too recommend Macross Frontier over SDF Macross for the reasons already mentioned by others. Usually. If it urns out that they have an interest in 80's anime then I'll recommend SDF Macross. However, I also tell people if they don't like Macross Frontier to still try other Macross series because they are different enough they may find a series that they'll like even if they didn't like the music, mechs, characters, or story of one series they may like them from a different Macross Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Casual Life Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 2/6/2024 at 7:01 AM, Jeff J said: Hey all, The OG Macross series has been my favorite TV show of any kind ever since the 1990s. I'd rewatch it every few years, but it kind stayed on the backburner longer than usual. I'm obviously older Not older than me. I watched Macross on US TV in 1985 largely unchanged from the Japanese original and it changed my life. When the announcer said "that was the final episode of Rxxxxxxx" I cried my eyes out. I was 24. Actually, I was 7...still older than you I figure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Casual Life Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) I showed the Macross Special to the 7 year old son of my best friend recently. WITH subs on the laserdisc. He loved it and wanted to see more. He couldn't read the subs but the quality of the animation when Hikaru crash lands in his 1D and then ends up in battroid outside Minmay's bedroom grabbed him. That giant orange Valk, lavilshly hand drawn with logical mechanical details, in a street wtih no one knowing what was going on, that would grab any sane kid.. I dare you to show the Macross Special to kids these days. And not a compressed youtube video (even worse a grain scrubbed and DNRed version) on a laptop screen or a phone - On a proper display with a proper source. No, you don't have to have a large screen CRT and LD player like me, you just have to show the show somewhat like it was actually seen at the time and I think kids will see the humanistic charm in it - I've seen some of today's "cartoons" for kids and they are soulless monstrosities of flat CGI/cell shaded whatever with perfect homogenous smoothness and they are THE WORST. It's not hard for something with as much soul as Macross to compete. Don't assume kids won't get it, don't underestimate their potential appreciation of something HUMAN. Edited February 8 by Space Casual Life clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff J Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 4 hours ago, Space Casual Life said: Not older than me. I watched Macross on US TV in 1985 largely unchanged from the Japanese original and it changed my life. When the announcer said "that was the final episode of Rxxxxxxx" I cried my eyes out. I was 24. Actually, I was 7...still older than you I figure! Hehe, I meant to say I'm older now, but you got me by at least one year. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazuo Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I watched '82 over again a few years back. Honestly didn't age super well. Lots of stuff in the plot didn't make sense, inconsistent animation quality (even for that era), and you can really tell when they got the news that they were getting more episodes added to the schedule. I still like it though, but I probably wouldn't recommend it to people. DYRL also has a decent number of "huh" moments with the plot, but it's just so amazing to look at that most people I've shown it to don't really think about it until way after the fact. Adapting "The First" Manga into an anime probably isn't the worst idea, honestly. Especially if they get WIT & Clover Works to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltane70 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 On 2/9/2024 at 7:29 PM, kazuo said: Adapting "The First" Manga into an anime probably isn't the worst idea, honestly. Especially if they get WIT & Clover Works to do it. I feel it’s a bit pointless to do so since it’s incomplete and looks like it will remain that way forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 7 hours ago, Beltane70 said: I feel it’s a bit pointless to do so since it’s incomplete and looks like it will remain that way forever. It's also probably not a real option under the global distribution agreement they struck a couple years ago. Apparently one of the concessions they made was that future Macross titles meant for the global market would refrain from using the original series characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoneWolf Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/8/2024 at 7:13 AM, Space Casual Life said: I showed the Macross Special to the 7 year old son of my best friend recently. WITH subs on the laserdisc. That's strange, I have this laserdisc and it's not subtitled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eevli Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 On 2/8/2024 at 7:13 AM, Space Casual Life said: I showed the Macross Special to the 7 year old son of my best friend recently. WITH subs on the laserdisc. He loved it and wanted to see more. He couldn't read the subs but the quality of the animation when Hikaru crash lands in his 1D and then ends up in battroid outside Minmay's bedroom grabbed him. That giant orange Valk, lavilshly hand drawn with logical mechanical details, in a street wtih no one knowing what was going on, that would grab any sane kid.. I dare you to show the Macross Special to kids these days. And not a compressed youtube video (even worse a grain scrubbed and DNRed version) on a laptop screen or a phone - On a proper display with a proper source. No, you don't have to have a large screen CRT and LD player like me, you just have to show the show somewhat like it was actually seen at the time and I think kids will see the humanistic charm in it - I've seen some of today's "cartoons" for kids and they are soulless monstrosities of flat CGI/cell shaded whatever with perfect homogenous smoothness and they are THE WORST. It's not hard for something with as much soul as Macross to compete. Don't assume kids won't get it, don't underestimate their potential appreciation of something HUMAN. I've never heard of a Macross LD with subtitles besides Macross Plus International Version with hard subs in Japanese. I assume this isn't a Japanese release. I'd love to see the cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazuo Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 On 2/11/2024 at 4:54 PM, Beltane70 said: I feel it’s a bit pointless to do so since it’s incomplete and looks like it will remain that way forever. You say that as if the story cannot be completed for some reason. We all know how Macross ends. I imagine it wouldn't be hard to have HAL crank out a synopsis (assuming it doesn't exist already), and then finish his work for him. On 2/12/2024 at 12:36 AM, Seto Kaiba said: It's also probably not a real option under the global distribution agreement they struck a couple years ago. Apparently one of the concessions they made was that future Macross titles meant for the global market would refrain from using the original series characters. They could just make it for the Japanese market. You know, like the Macross The First manga was made solely for that market. Aside from shows made for streaming platforms (Netflix), I'm not really sure you can make a strong case for "they totally made this show with the global audience in mind" for a lot of productions. So this doesn't really hold up as a strong argument against the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 20 minutes ago, kazuo said: They could just make it for the Japanese market. You know, like the Macross The First manga was made solely for that market. Aside from shows made for streaming platforms (Netflix), I'm not really sure you can make a strong case for "they totally made this show with the global audience in mind" for a lot of productions. So this doesn't really hold up as a strong argument against the idea. They could, but for a variety of reasons (e.g. respect for Hikaru's VA having passed) they almost certainly won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: They could, but for a variety of reasons (e.g. respect for Hikaru's VA having passed) they almost certainly won't. You know, just to make some people give up on this idea of seeing more Hikaru/Misa/Minmay, I want to see Hikaru die on screen the most gruesome way possible. Hikaru just starts his sortie only to meet a big Zentradi who crushes the cockpit causing the monitors to crush his body causing blood to splatter everywhere in the cockpit. Then that big Zentradi shoots the VF to pieces causing it to blow up with a blood-filled helmet fly pass. There. No more Hikaru. Happy now? 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: They could, but for a variety of reasons (e.g. respect for Hikaru's VA having passed) they almost certainly won't. The folks who this matters most to are less and less involved in the franchise. Money is a powerful motivator and it's only a matter of time before someone reboots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 4 hours ago, azrael said: You know, just to make some people give up on this idea of seeing more Hikaru/Misa/Minmay, I want to see Hikaru die on screen the most gruesome way possible. Hikaru just starts his sortie only to meet a big Zentradi who crushes the cockpit causing the monitors to crush his body causing blood to splatter everywhere in the cockpit. Then that big Zentradi shoots the VF to pieces causing it to blow up with a blood-filled helmet fly pass. There. No more Hikaru. Happy now? 😁 Didn't they kind of give us that in Absolute Live!!!!!!? Instead of the big reveal of some grand decades-long adventure, the movie revealed they've been up to absolutely bloody nothing after breaking down on the side of the space road decades ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazuo Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 13 hours ago, jenius said: The folks who this matters most to are less and less involved in the franchise. Money is a powerful motivator and it's only a matter of time before someone reboots! This. I think some people are pretty naive about how long that whole "they will never put the original trio back on the screen!" thing will last. My personal take? It may hold for future (read: continuations of) stories, but for a reboot (e.g. The First), nope. All bets are off. Expect everyone up to and including Hikaru to be recast. To be clear, I'm not particularly excited about the idea of a remake, nor am I excited about the idea of continuining Hikaru's/Minmay's/Misa's story post-'82. But I'm also not particularly excited about Delta, nor whatever is next if it continues to follow the trend of Idolshit-in-the-sky. Edited March 2 by kazuo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big s Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 19 hours ago, kazuo said: This. I think some people are pretty naive about how long that whole "they will never put the original trio back on the screen!" thing will last. My personal take? It may hold for future (read: continuations of) stories, but for a reboot (e.g. The First), nope. All bets are off. Expect everyone up to and including Hikaru to be recast. To be clear, I'm not particularly excited about the idea of a remake, nor am I excited about the idea of continuining Hikaru's/Minmay's/Misa's story post-'82. But I'm also not particularly excited about Delta, nor whatever is next if it continues to follow the trend of Idolshit-in-the-sky. I pretty much agree here. I don’t think casting has really been the biggest issue on remakes. Gundam did the origin thing and many other anime series with beloved characters that have had iconic voice actors pass have had their remakes as well. I really only think the biggest block is HG right now. I do also think that currently the people in charge still want to try newer content, but that doesn’t necessarily rule out something like an adaptation of Macross the First sometime in the near future. It may not be a thing in the next few years, but maybe at the end of the decade. I may not be around to see it and maybe none of the original creators, but eventually it’s more likely to happen than not at some point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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