Terminator Zero: The Anime Series

[sh9000]

 

[TangledThorns]

15 hours ago, sh9000 said:

 

 

Could be good. Let's hope it doesn't get cancelled as quickly as the FOX television series 😔

[Bolt]

Very curious to see how this cones out. 

[Big s]

I’m really burned out on the Terminator thing. The first two films were great, the show was good, but the idea is kinda boring now especially with the overuse of time travel/ multiverse boredom that’s getting way overused. Back in the 80’s and early 90’s it didn’t feel as overly gimmicky as it does now. If I hear the show is really good, I might check it out

[Seto Kaiba]

Yeah, this definitely screams "bad idea" to me.

Terminator is one of those titles that's tried and failed so many times to get a proper ongoing story going that it really should be left well enough alone.  Even Arnold doesn't want anything to do with it anymore, and he headlined it.  They've already weathered two separate failures to launch a new trilogy: Genisys and Dark Fate.

 

Spoiler

Given that the trailer references August 28th and August 30th 1997 - the day before and the day after the original Judgement Day - it seems likely this'll be a fifth timeline separate from all the other Terminator sequels that moved Judgement Day into the 2000s.

 

[jenius]

1) I hope it pays zero attention to the movie universe and it's timelines/fragments and just does its own thing
2) I'm curious how the choice of medium will be leveraged. My guess is that they'll go hyper gory at times. My hope is that they do some cool future scenes.

I'll probably check it out after a season 2 or cancellation is announced... I never have enough time for shows these days. 

[Hikuro]

They sure have been taking their sweet time on this since it's informal announcement I think 2 years ago...? Or was it a little longer....I wanna say it was right around the time Dark Fate came out maybe?

I'll be honest, I'm really tired of the going back thru time BS...I want the Judgement Day war, no more of this sending a Terminator back thru time to alter the future....I think you can get some awesome drama and great storytelling that leads up to the final battle in Colorado. This is kind of why I really liked Terminator: Resistance....it gave me a really good taste of that war but it was still so basic and simple that it didn't do enough. 

[TangledThorns]

I wonder if the younger audience even cares about TERMINATOR and its just chasing GenX money? The original film will be 40 years old (yikes!) next year and I wonder if many younger folk in their late teens or early 20s have actually seen it? 

I have a co-worker in his mid-20s that I consider a fellow nerd film fan however he never saw Big Trouble in Little China, The Thing nor Blade Runner. 

 

[Big s]

1 minute ago, TangledThorns said:

I wonder if the younger audience even cares about TERMINATOR and its just chasing GenX money? The original film will be 40 years old (yikes!) next year and I wonder if many younger folk in their late teens or early 20s have actually seen it? 

I have a co-worker in his mid-20s that I consider a fellow nerd film fan however he never saw Big Trouble in Little China, The Thing nor Blade Runner. 

 

It’s definitely tough to find a new audience for older dread franchises. 
the thing is one of those that I never really met too many from my generation that really remember it. Big trouble is a fun one to put on for people due to the attitude and awkwardness. unfortunately it’s tough to find young people that will sit through Blade Runner, but at least that gets new material every now and then to bring it a little forward for when they can appreciate it when they mature a little.

[pengbuzz]

17 hours ago, Hikuro said:

They sure have been taking their sweet time on this since it's informal announcement I think 2 years ago...? Or was it a little longer....I wanna say it was right around the time Dark Fate came out maybe?

I'll be honest, I'm really tired of the going back thru time BS...I want the Judgement Day war, no more of this sending a Terminator back thru time to alter the future....I think you can get some awesome drama and great storytelling that leads up to the final battle in Colorado. This is kind of why I really liked Terminator: Resistance....it gave me a really good taste of that war but it was still so basic and simple that it didn't do enough. 

They need to give us the Future War as depicted in the first 2 movies; that would work.

[Big s]

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

They need to give us the Future War as depicted in the first 2 movies; that would work.

I’d be far more interested than that than a time jumping alter the future setting off inescapable paradoxes kinda gimmick 

[Seto Kaiba]

44 minutes ago, Big s said:

I’d be far more interested than that than a time jumping alter the future setting off inescapable paradoxes kinda gimmick 

I'd be a great deal more interested in this Terminator animated series if it were to return to the horror roots of the original Terminator film.  Esp. since it's seemingly set up to ignore all of the action-ized sequels including Terminator 2: Judgement Day.

I have similar hopes for that Alien TV series that's supposedly in the works.  Much like Alien's xenomorph, Terminator's... Terminators... lost a lot of considerable portion of their scariness when it was demoted to a problematic-but-manageable movie monster bested with the aid of a tween.

[Big s]

43 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'd be a great deal more interested in this Terminator animated series if it were to return to the horror roots of the original Terminator film.  Esp. since it's seemingly set up to ignore all of the action-ized sequels including Terminator 2: Judgement Day.

I have similar hopes for that Alien TV series that's supposedly in the works.  Much like Alien's xenomorph, Terminator's... Terminators... lost a lot of considerable portion of their scariness when it was demoted to a problematic-but-manageable movie monster bested with the aid of a tween.

I think Alien would definitely do best with a simple horror thing. Terminator as an anime kinda begs for bigger action. Although I’d love to see the machines as somewhat more unstoppable enemies that aren’t so easy to put down. It could make for more of an action horror kind of story that would be far more thrilling than just watching wave after wave of derpy exoskeletons dropping with only a few bullets.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'd be a great deal more interested in this Terminator animated series if it were to return to the horror roots of the original Terminator film.  Esp. since it's seemingly set up to ignore all of the action-ized sequels including Terminator 2: Judgement Day.

I have similar hopes for that Alien TV series that's supposedly in the works.  Much like Alien's xenomorph, Terminator's... Terminators... lost a lot of considerable portion of their scariness when it was demoted to a problematic-but-manageable movie monster bested with the aid of a tween.

34 minutes ago, Big s said:

I think Alien would definitely do best with a simple horror thing. Terminator as an anime kinda begs for bigger action. Although I’d love to see the machines as somewhat more unstoppable enemies that aren’t so easy to put down. It could make for more of an action horror kind of story that would be far more thrilling than just watching wave after wave of derpy exoskeletons dropping with only a few bullets.

I see no reason why it can't be both: horror set in the future, with survivors trying to escape Terminators who pass for human, Hunter killers bound to destroy them, and Skynet controlling the whole thing behind the scenes. Also, show scenes where the good guys don't always figure out the traps before it's too late, and the Machines commit carnage.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Big s said:

I think Alien would definitely do best with a simple horror thing. Terminator as an anime kinda begs for bigger action.

Hrm... I don't know about that.  I mean, all of the Terminator sequels pivoted to focus on action over horror and other than Terminator 2 they didn't really do so hot.

What's that old saying?  The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?  

There's a million and one action VFX extravaganzas out there... but precious little decent horror.  A Terminator relaunch stands a better chance of standing out, IMO, if it returns to its horror roots.  Esp. with modern anxieties about AI.

 

2 hours ago, Big s said:

Although I’d love to see the machines as somewhat more unstoppable enemies that aren’t so easy to put down. It could make for more of an action horror kind of story that would be far more thrilling than just watching wave after wave of derpy exoskeletons dropping with only a few bullets.

That's kind of a catch-22, though... if they go for big action set pieces depicting the war against the machines, we're absolutely gonna see John Connor's rebels fighting and defeating waves of derpy, fleshless T-series endoskeletons because that's what Skynet's got.

Whatever they're doing, they've gotta get a decent script.  The quality of the writing has been the downfall of multiple previous attempts, and is the reason Arnie doesn't want to be involved with the franchise anymore.

[Big s]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Hrm... I don't know about that.  I mean, all of the Terminator sequels pivoted to focus on action over horror and other than Terminator 2 they didn't really do so hot.

What's that old saying?  The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?  

There's a million and one action VFX extravaganzas out there... but precious little decent horror.  A Terminator relaunch stands a better chance of standing out, IMO, if it returns to its horror roots.  Esp. with modern anxieties about AI.

I get what you’re saying, but they’re doing an animated project, so you know it’s going to be a bigger thing. It’s very rare for these things to be done in a small way these days. Castlevania tries to be horror, but it’s just a big action thing and that Witcher cartoon as well. There are horror elements, but in the case of Terminator it could be toned down some since the human characters were superpowered or magic. Hopefully it’s not another story where a terminator becomes a good guy.

If this was a live action movie or series then a smaller more sci-fi horror thing would definitely work best both for budget and story.

[JB0]

17 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

I wonder if the younger audience even cares about TERMINATOR and its just chasing GenX money? The original film will be 40 years old (yikes!) next year and I wonder if many younger folk in their late teens or early 20s have actually seen it? 

I have a co-worker in his mid-20s that I consider a fellow nerd film fan however he never saw Big Trouble in Little China, The Thing nor Blade Runner. 

 

I've definitely interacted with younger audiences who have seen Terminator films.
They hated the original because that isn't how time travel works, predestination paradoxes aren't a thing because you create alternate timelines instead, and they can't take any film seriously that has such clearly wrong concepts of time travel.

Friggin' tedious, I tell ya.

 

11 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

They need to give us the Future War as depicted in the first 2 movies; that would work.

I mean, isn't that what Terminator: Salvation was? And it was a dumpster fire.

 

 

I personally believe the franchise is best left dead. It was one fantastic movie, one nonsensical action spectacle*, and a bunch of just dire attempts to cash in on a name... and also Sarah Connor Chronicles, I guess that one was awesome or something, I didn't see it please don't hurt me.

 

 

*Seriously. My summary of Terminator 2 is "There are plot holes big enough to drive a truck through, but no one cares because they DID drive a truck through them, then the truck blew up, and they did it again a half-hour later."

Edited November 14, 2023 by JB0

[Big s]

2 hours ago, JB0 said:

I've definitely interacted with younger audiences who have seen Terminator films.
They hated the original because that isn't how time travel works, predestination paradoxes aren't a thing because you create alternate timelines instead, and they can't take any film seriously that has such clearly wrong concepts of time travel.

To be fair, that’s really just a theory on how time travel works. Nobody has actually done it and there’s really no proof of alternate time lines. It’s all sci-fi at this point.

 

[Hikuro]

4 hours ago, JB0 said:

I mean, isn't that what Terminator: Salvation was? And it was a dumpster fire.

It was not, Salvation while taking place in the future war was not based on either T1 or T2 judgement days. It was another altered timeline caused by the effects of T1-3 giving a 5th timeline. The biggest reason it was a dumpster fire was people finding out via a leaked script online what the movie was going to be about, and the backlash caused McG and the studios to go back and make changes to keep it to a more "traditional" style versus his far out vision of what the "new trilogy" was going to be. 

[pengbuzz]

 

6 hours ago, JB0 said:

I mean, isn't that what Terminator: Salvation was? And it was a dumpster fire.

In the original Terminator, the humans didn't do much during the day because the Machines would spot them. From what I recall of Salvation, most of the action was daytime. It lacked the horror and the edge of your teeth nightmare the future war scenes had in T1.

6 hours ago, JB0 said:

I've definitely interacted with younger audiences who have seen Terminator films.
They hated the original because that isn't how time travel works, predestination paradoxes aren't a thing because you create alternate timelines instead, and they can't take any film seriously that has such clearly wrong concepts of time travel.

Frankly, we don't know how time travel would actually work given we're stuck in time and haven't tried it yet. Time paradoxes could very well be a thing; you can't be dogmatic on something where we have no absolutes yet. All we absolutely know is that we cannot travel in time at this point.

As for younger audiences: they didn't grow up in the 70's and 80's, anymore than we didn't grow up in the 2000's and further on. That's comparing apples and oranges, honestly.

Spoiler

On that note: if the studios really wanted to go the "alternate timeline" route, they should consider a movie where all the time traveling and alternate timelines have begun to tear the very fabric of time apart. It would be a good excuse to get characters from every timeline together (movie and tv series alike, including dead ones like the original Kyle Reese from T1) and have the focus of the story on trying to fix time before everything ceases to exist. This way, they could finally deal with the multiple timelines and bring everything back to one solidified timeline.  You'd also get battles like John Connor (Resistance Leader, Terminator Salvation) vs. John Connor (T-3000), Kyle Reese (Terminator: Genysis) vs. Cromartie (T:SCC), TX (Terminator3) vs. Cameron (T:SCC) and so forth.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, Big s said:

I get what you’re saying, but they’re doing an animated project, so you know it’s going to be a bigger thing. It’s very rare for these things to be done in a small way these days. Castlevania tries to be horror, but it’s just a big action thing and that Witcher cartoon as well. There are horror elements, but in the case of Terminator it could be toned down some since the human characters were superpowered or magic. Hopefully it’s not another story where a terminator becomes a good guy.

There's far more to Horror as a genre than just "has monsters".  Horror evokes fear in the audience.

Castlevania was never in the horror genre.  It was a puzzle/platformer so it'd be filed under "action/adventure" in this day in age... and while it started out parodying classic horror movies, nothing about the game's story or gameplay is designed to evoke fear in the player.  The game's enemies are horror movie monsters, but outside their original context the monsters aren't frightening... they're just enemies to be defeated.  The Castlevania animated series reflects this, belonging to the fantasy/adventure genre rather than horror, as it really doesn't do anything to frighten.

Similarly, The Witcher is a fantasy/adventure novel series and game series.  The monsters that Geralt hunts are physically grotesque and frighten random villagers, but the story doesn't present them in a way that evokes fear in the reader/player.  Geralt of Rivia is basically a jaded fantasy Orkin Man exterminating nuisance wildlife.

The Terminator, on the other hand, was sci-fi/action with a LOT of horror elements in its premise and titular antagonist.  Its presentation of the titular Terminator is well in line with the classic definition of a horror antagonist/monster:

• The Terminator is a manifestation of one of the audience's underlying fears... that of automation/AI untethered by human morality and an older fear that humanity's own unnatural creations turning against it as in folk tales like The Golem of Prague (c.1837).
• The Terminator and its master Skynet are deeply unnatural.  The former being a literal murder machine that walks among us disguised as a person, unknown and unknowable in pursuit of its target.  The latter is a bodiless unliving intelligence that seeks to exterminate all life.
• The Terminator presents both a physical and psychological threat.  It's absolutely determined to kill its target and nothing short of complete destruction will stop it.  Nor can the authorities, as it shoots up an entire police station without issue.  As it's coming from the future, you have no way to know it's coming until it's too late.  And as if having an utterly implacable killer who can withstand most any punishment and pursue you wherever you go isn't enough, there is no happy ending.  Judgement Day and the machine war that follows are unstoppable, not dying now just means the future genocide of humanity won't be total and Skynet can always just try again.  Earth will still be destroyed and billions will still die no matter what.

Terminator 2: Judgement Day was every bit as catastrophic to the Terminator story as Aliens was to Alien.  The reveal that there are "good" Terminators on humanity's side and that Terminators are capable of learning to the extent that they can form friendships and comprehend human emotion obliterated much of their menace.  Why have a human like Kyle Reese fight a desperate fight against a Terminator when you can send a good Terminator back to fight an evil Terminator?  It not only makes the T-800 unscary thereafter, but the T-1000 is demoted from a terrifying threat to more like a severe inconvenience with another Terminator standing between it and the Connors.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 Why have a human like Kyle Reese fight a desperate fight against a Terminator when you can send a good Terminator back to fight an evil Terminator?  It not only makes the T-800 unscary thereafter, but the T-1000 is demoted from a terrifying threat to more like a severe inconvenience with another Terminator standing between it and the Connors.

From what I understood from the books and such at the time, they first sent Kyle back, then discovered Skynet had sent back a second Terminator that was more advanced. But the story keeps skewing and changing (and admittedly, my memory isn't what it used to be) to where now that is a good point.

[Big s]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There's far more to Horror as a genre than just "has monsters".  Horror evokes fear in the audience.

Castlevania was never in the horror genre.  It was a puzzle/platformer so it'd be filed under "action/adventure" in this day in age... and while it started out parodying classic horror movies, nothing about the game's story or gameplay is designed to evoke fear in the player.  The game's enemies are horror movie monsters, but outside their original context the monsters aren't frightening... they're just enemies to be defeated.  The Castlevania animated series reflects this, belonging to the fantasy/adventure genre rather than horror, as it really doesn't do anything to frighten.

Similarly, The Witcher is a fantasy/adventure novel series and game series.  The monsters that Geralt hunts are physically grotesque and frighten random villagers, but the story doesn't present them in a way that evokes fear in the reader/player.  Geralt of Rivia is basically a jaded fantasy Orkin Man exterminating nuisance wildlife.

The Terminator, on the other hand, was sci-fi/action with a LOT of horror elements in its premise and titular antagonist.  Its presentation of the titular Terminator is well in line with the classic definition of a horror antagonist/monster:

• The Terminator is a manifestation of one of the audience's underlying fears... that of automation/AI untethered by human morality and an older fear that humanity's own unnatural creations turning against it as in folk tales like The Golem of Prague (c.1837).
• The Terminator and its master Skynet are deeply unnatural.  The former being a literal murder machine that walks among us disguised as a person, unknown and unknowable in pursuit of its target.  The latter is a bodiless unliving intelligence that seeks to exterminate all life.
• The Terminator presents both a physical and psychological threat.  It's absolutely determined to kill its target and nothing short of complete destruction will stop it.  Nor can the authorities, as it shoots up an entire police station without issue.  As it's coming from the future, you have no way to know it's coming until it's too late.  And as if having an utterly implacable killer who can withstand most any punishment and pursue you wherever you go isn't enough, there is no happy ending.  Judgement Day and the machine war that follows are unstoppable, not dying now just means the future genocide of humanity won't be total and Skynet can always just try again.  Earth will still be destroyed and billions will still die no matter what.

Terminator 2: Judgement Day was every bit as catastrophic to the Terminator story as Aliens was to Alien.  The reveal that there are "good" Terminators on humanity's side and that Terminators are capable of learning to the extent that they can form friendships and comprehend human emotion obliterated much of their menace.  Why have a human like Kyle Reese fight a desperate fight against a Terminator when you can send a good Terminator back to fight an evil Terminator?  It not only makes the T-800 unscary thereafter, but the T-1000 is demoted from a terrifying threat to more like a severe inconvenience with another Terminator standing between it and the Connors.

What I was trying to say is that the human characters don’t have magic or super powers, so unless they try again to give us a terminator as the main or side character then the story could be more grounded giving more of an element of danger to the story. I can’t say that I know the direction this show will take and more than likely it will go for the same old same old stuff, but I’d be really happy if it didn’t.

 

5 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

On that note: if the studios really wanted to go the "alternate timeline" route, they should consider a movie where all the time traveling and alternate timelines have begun to tear the very fabric of time apart. It would be a good excuse to get characters from every timeline together (movie and tv series alike, including dead ones like the original Kyle Reese from T1) and have the focus of the story on trying to fix time before everything ceases to exist. This way, they could finally deal with the multiple timelines and bring everything back to one solidified timeline.  You'd also get battles like John Connor (Resistance Leader, Terminator Salvation) vs. John Connor (T-3000), Kyle Reese (Terminator: Genysis) vs. Cromartie (T:SCC), TX (Terminator3) vs. Cameron (T:SCC) and so forth.

Honestly, I f this were the story I would totally skip it. I’m done with the Multiverse and everything seems like they’re doing a we gotta fix the multiverse or rescue the little Mcguffin girl in sci-fi shows and movies and I want something different for a change. 
I love the Loki character, but I’m so tired of the multiverse that I haven’t been able to watch his show past the first episode of the second season 
 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

From what I understood from the books and such at the time, they first sent Kyle back, then discovered Skynet had sent back a second Terminator that was more advanced. But the story keeps skewing and changing (and admittedly, my memory isn't what it used to be) to where now that is a good point.

Well, yeah... and that's the problem.

Each new Terminator sequel wants to be Terminator 2: Judgement Day.  As a result, the Terminators get less threatening with every new installment because no matter what state-of-the-art bullsh*t gimmick Skynet's latest robo-killer has it's still going to be jobbing for one of the Resistance's seemingly limitless number of jailbroken T-800s.  It doesn't help at all that the T-800s have gone from stiff and inhuman to downright folksy.

 

18 minutes ago, Big s said:

What I was trying to say is that the human characters don’t have magic or super powers, so unless they try again to give us a terminator as the main or side character then the story could be more grounded giving more of an element of danger to the story. I can’t say that I know the direction this show will take and more than likely it will go for the same old same old stuff, but I’d be really happy if it didn’t.

It's Terminator... it's pretty much a given that a Terminator's going to be the principal antagonist and better than 50-50 that one'll be part of the main cast on the protagonist side too.  The problem is that Terminator has not really succeeded with an action focus since Terminator 2: Judgement Day.  They can do a much more grounded and interesting story with a horror focus like the original The Terminator.

 

18 minutes ago, Big s said:

Honestly, I f this were the story I would totally skip it. I’m done with the Multiverse and everything seems like they’re doing a we gotta fix the multiverse or rescue the little Mcguffin girl in sci-fi shows and movies and I want something different for a change. 
I love the Loki character, but I’m so tired of the multiverse that I haven’t been able to watch his show past the first episode of the second season 

Well, we're almost certainly not getting that... esp. since every timeline except Terminator 3's has basically settled on time travel is annoying and cluttering the timeline without any real detrimental side effects besides Judgement Day moving around a lot.

[Big s]

11 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They can do a much more grounded and interesting story with a horror focus like the original The Terminator.

And I’d say there’s a chance of that if t were a live action project. But this is an animated project, so the likelihood of being a horror is very slim to none. I can’t even think of a recent horror in animation or anime that isn’t either mostly action or psychological horror.

[pengbuzz]

49 minutes ago, Big s said:

And I’d say there’s a chance of that if t were a live action project. But this is an animated project, so the likelihood of being a horror is very slim to none. I can’t even think of a recent horror in animation or anime that isn’t either mostly action or psychological horror.

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.

[Big s]

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.

Haven’t seen it, you’ll have to give us a detailed review 

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Big s said:

And I’d say there’s a chance of that if t were a live action project. But this is an animated project, so the likelihood of being a horror is very slim to none. I can’t even think of a recent horror in animation or anime that isn’t either mostly action or psychological horror.

I'd assume the opposite, TBH...

Everyone would expect a live action Terminator feature to go all-in on action because that's what live action Terminator sequels do.

Animation is an opportunity to branch out, since you're not beholden to a visual effects budget, and this one DOES appear to be going back to before Terminator 2 changed the date of Judgement Day for the first time... 

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Big s said:

Haven’t seen it, you’ll have to give us a detailed review 

Not even if my rear end were on fire and doing a review would put it out, TVYM.

[Bolt]

There's nothing to go on which direction this going. We need more details before everyone gets all attached..

[JB0]

19 hours ago, Big s said:

To be fair, that’s really just a theory on how time travel works. Nobody has actually done it and there’s really no proof of alternate time lines. It’s all sci-fi at this point.

 

That was kind of my point. They are ery confused about the difference between popular fiction and scientific reality(which has several currently-untested hypotheses).

[sh9000]

First look.

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

BOOMA!

[Hikuro]

I remember in the days of way back, I think it was The Terminator: Hunters and Killers, Russia had their own AI much like skynet but not as smart. I wonder since this supposed "Terminator Zero" is set in Japan if it'll be something similar to that.

[sh9000]

Premieres on August 29.