Acrylic Paints:

[Deadzone]

I am getting into the world of custom paint jobs, and I was wondering what was the better paint to use. I've read the many guides and posts about this subject. Each one says that it is all based on preference. However, some things just don't make any sense to me. For example, some people say water base is better because it is almost non toxic and uses water as a solvent. The problem is a primer has to be put on first which is still very toxic. In addition to that, a finish has to be sprayed on which again is toxic and adds an extra step to the process.

On the other hand, oil base supposedly does not need primer in every situation. I remember using oil bases once. The smell nearly killed me, but the paint seemed to hold fine without a primer. Also, the finish was glossy without the need of applying a separate coat for gloss. It just dried that way.

I would love to be able to paint with non toxic materials, but it seems like you'll be using toxic materials no matter what. So I guess the big question is, why do so many people like the water base paints? What advantages do the water base paints give that make them worth it for the two extra steps? There's got to be something I'm missing here. Are water base paints cheaper or something? I did notice that the water base paints came in larger containers than the tiny testor bottles I see in the model shop.

Other important questions:

What is the best water and oil based paints to use at an affordable price?

What primers can be used without eating through the plastic?

What is the best tape to use for masking purposes?

Specifically, I am thinking about repainting my 1/55 Bandai Veritechs. Anybody with information would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Deadzone]

Almost forgot to ask. It seems like the paint the toy companies use usually look great and stick very well. Does anybody know what kind of paint they are using? I highly doubt it is a water base acrylic, but it doesn't look like your standard enamel either. It would appear to be the ideal paint. Maybe somebody in the toy industry would know.

[Commander McBride]

A big part of toy painting is the application, too. The toys are often sprayed with a special sprayer, with specual paint, and they have special templayes that allow the spraying to be precise. It often seems that toys are painted with a relative of the vinyl die, intended for car interiors, and used on plastic by computer modders, that actually sort of dyes the plastic, instead of putting a layer on top of it.

[David Hingtgen]

Toys and models often use tampo pads as well, another way they're different.

Anyways, the best tape (for general masking) is Scotch Magic tape (green package). It doesn't stick nearly as much as most tapes. For VERY low-stick tape, look for Scotch Removable tape (blue package). But it's so low stick it won't go around corners or edges at all without lifting--but I guarantee it won't peel up paint!

For detail masking, I usually use Pactra tape, but many like Tamiya's.

[ewilen]

I don't have much experience with modeling or customizing; however, I can say that when it comes to enamels on mass-produced polystyrene models, priming makes a huge difference. But maybe the plastic used in the Bandai 1/55's will take paint better than naked polystyrene. Whether you strip the paint or not could also be a factor in whether you need to prime and what kind of paint will work better.

I assume somebody will answer your question...otherwise, maybe you could find a dead Jetfire and use it for experiments.

[Deadzone]

Well, I decided to go ahead and experiment. I went to a hobby shop and an art store.

The art store sales person said I could use a water based primer then an acrylic water based paint on top of that. So far, I have had little success. Even after sanding, the water based primer easily chips off. Not very good. The guy at the hobby shop told me I could use water based acrylic paint but not primer. He suggested a can of Tamiya white which is suppose to be the finer one good for keeping details. I'll try some of that tonight. I think it will work much better but at $7.00 a pop, it can get very expensive very fast. Anybody have an alternative primer that works just as well?

I bought two types of paint, Tamiya and Createx. I will try both and see which one works better. I have to say right up front, I hope they work the same or Createx works better. Tamiya bottles cost a lot and you have to buy thinner on top of it. The Createx comes premixed without the need for thinning. Wish me luck.

Anybody with any thoughts on the subject, advice is appreciated.

[Jasonc]

I've tried the oil based spray paints, and I've used acrylics. Using an oil based paint is stronger coat for coat than acrylics, but my opinion is that acrylics give it a more realistic and softer coat. There's also an even trade to curing the paint. Oil-based paint can sometimes take up to 3 days (I've seen it) and during that time, dust can attach. Also, if you need to do more than one coat, you could be looking at a long week. Acrylics, though, usually dry within 2-12 hours. But like you said, they need a primer, and mostly an overcoat, which is good to give them anyways. A nice dull or matte finish after applying decals will always make a valk look more realistic as well as protect it.

If you're talking about airbrushing, I'd ONLY use acrylic. Tamiya is a great paint. It bonds well with oil and water based paint.

[kanata67]

I started off doing warhammer mini's way back when. I am a big fan of "citadel" products, although many of their best paints are no longer made so I have to spend much time tracking down paint thats 15+ years old. The paint is still as good as the day it was made with some shaking which is one reason water based acrylics are nice. I ALWAYS use a spray primer for my stuff. First I use some "goo-gone" to remove any sticker residue and the wash the parts/toy in water till it feels "clean" The spray primer holds extremely well I have found and is still readily availible.

As for texture... I never mastered the art of airbrushing as I found it extremely wasteful of paint when working on mini's and the lack of experience kept me using brushes when I moved on to bigger things. I can get a nice shiney finish using the correct "citadel" paint without a primer, but it flakes easily off smooth plastic without the primer.

The main reason that I love water based acrylics over oil based paints is that...

1. they are easy to clean up {my work area is a sheet of glass and a sponge works days later}

2. they are easy to mix

3. you can dillute them to the consistancy desired [You can "ink"/wash with any water based paint if you dilute it enough]

4. They dry incredibly fast. I found I could paint the shield of a mini, then paint the armor, and by the time I was done with another part the first part was dry enough to work on again. Warning... this leads to undertaking many projects at once and results in an almost assembly line meathodology.

With "citadel" spray matte sealer the paints are almost impervious to accidental flaking and damage. TO give you an idea... I made a snow globe for a girl in high school ['93] using citadel paints and sealer. I lost track of her before the paint had any issues SUBMERGED continuously for years!

I also found it remarkably easy to clean up my airbrush [while I was experimenting with one before I learned that I couldn't get the detail I wanted on a 1/2" figure] when using water based acrylics by simply spraying water through it till it was clean.

Oh yeah... water based stuff is also non-flamable for you smokers/pyros

[Skull Leader]

My painting skills are severely retarded, however, I find I have the easiest time with water-based acrylics. The only time I will use enamels is for spray base coats (usually testors, since they are cheap and readilly available) and water-based acrylics for details.. I then spray or brush on a clearcoat to protect everything. Acrylics are wonderful for the above-listed reasons (By Kanata). I especially enjoy the ease of which I can whip up an easy wash. Enamell paint is a lot more difficult to repair if you make a mistake.

It really is user-preference. I have a difficult time working with Tamiya paints simply because they must be thinned heavilly before they are used... others will swear by them though.

[David Hingtgen]

I'll chime in again.

1. Don't use the Scotch Removable (blue) tape for long periods. No more than a few hours. It'll leave a residue that's impossible to remove short of goo-gone (which you DON'T want to be using on a painted model! ) I've actually sworn off it completely after what happened last time. Back to Magic tape (green).

2. "Toys" often have much smoother plastic surfaces than models. They really won't like most paints. They often have special paint that you cannot buy that allows it to be sprayed or pad printed. If it's a really smooth surface, I'd suggest sanding it first to roughen it up.

3. Enamel primer! I always use it. Testor's Light Aircraft Grey, specifically. Both Tamiya acrylic and Testors Acrylic will go over it with no problems whatsoever. I have found Testors and Tamiya to be very very compatible. (Don't go mixing the two, but they can be applied over each other when dry with no problems). Acrylic primer's worthless, IMHO.

4. Prime everything when painting acrylic. Even if you're painting black plastic with black paint.

5. The thicker the coat, the easier it'll chip/peel.

6. Paint takes days to TRULY dry. There's "Dry" then there's "rock hard". My latest coat on my USS Iowa's hull was applied Monday afternoon. It's dry. But it's not DRY. I'm not going to mask it or clear-coat it or anything until it's rock-hard super-dry-cured like the rest of the ship. That'll be this weekend.