New Macross Animation Announced, to be animated by Sunrise

[JB0]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Dr. Hell, Berg Katse, Char Aznable, and Usagi Tsukino (one of these things is not like the other...).

Doc Hell is the odd one out. The other 3 are clearly human, but Hell's skin color exposes him as a zentradi spy.

[Seto Kaiba]

14 hours ago, JB0 said:

Doc Hell is the odd one out. The other 3 are clearly human, but Hell's skin color exposes him as a zentradi spy.

I was going for "Usagi Tsukino's not the villain of her series", but that works too.  

 

[pengbuzz]

On 7/17/2023 at 2:47 PM, azrael said:

"I want Macross but without all the Macross-y stuff"
"So you want Gundam?"
"No. I want Macross. But without the stuff that makes it Macross."
"So you want Gundam?"
....

🤦‍♂️ Every time we get a new Macross, this exact conversation comes up. Every. Damn. Time.

Yup. Pretty much.

I sometimes wonder if an infographic should be drawn up showing why Macross and Gundam are not the same thing, but I doubt they'd pay any attention to it.

I'd settle for a story on another colony during the Macross Plus era, or a sequel to MII (yeah, it's a different production, I know). Instead of the hot new superfighter prototype of the week, maybe they could focus on some serious character development as well as flesh out the world during or just after either of those eras.

The VF-4000 or the VF-5000 would be good candidates as the main VF for colonies in the first idea. The VF-2SS meantime would work for the second.

Edited August 8, 2023 by pengbuzz

[TG Remix]

Honestly considering how I loved Planet Eden in Plus and how into Delta was regarding the worldbuilding of the different planets in the Brisingr Globular Cluster, I think having one specific planet to focus on would be nice to see again and to build on the world of said planet. Macross is really good at exploring worlds in general after SDF.

 

7 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Instead of the hot new superfighter prototype of the week,

Now that I won't hold my breath for unfortunately. New kits sell for better and worse, and even though I prefer the VF-31 over the VF-25, people do want a more unique Valkyrie as the main. I personally would love a VF-171 or a VF-11 focused series to see the grunts of the NUNS instead of the ace pilots, but that's really only something Macross video games (until you're given the option of the "main" Valkyries) and Gundam side stories would do then a main Macross series.

 

7 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

The VF-4000 or the VF-5000 would be good candidates as the main VF for colonies in the first idea.

I'm familiar with the VF-5000, but not the former. Maybe you're referring to the VF-3000?

[pengbuzz]

4 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Honestly considering how I loved Planet Eden in Plus and how into Delta was regarding the worldbuilding of the different planets in the Brisingr Globular Cluster, I think having one specific planet to focus on would be nice to see again and to build on the world of said planet. Macross is really good at exploring worlds in general after SDF.

 

Now that I won't hold my breath for unfortunately. New kits sell for better and worse, and even though I prefer the VF-31 over the VF-25, people do want a more unique Valkyrie as the main. I personally would love a VF-171 or a VF-11 focused series to see the grunts of the NUNS instead of the ace pilots, but that's really only something Macross video games (until you're given the option of the "main" Valkyries) and Gundam side stories would do then a main Macross series.

 

I'm familiar with the VF-5000, but not the former. Maybe you're referring to the VF-3000?

Yeah, actually I meant the VF-3000. :redface: Got beercans for fingers here and I hit the "4" instead of the "3".

[Seto Kaiba]

16 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

I sometimes wonder if an infographic should be drawn up showing why Macross and Gundam are not the same thing, but I doubt they'd pay any attention to it.

I think it's probably got a lot more to do with another series we don't talk about than it does Gundam...

 

16 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

I'd settle for a story on another colony during the Macross Plus era, or a sequel to MII (yeah, it's a different production, I know). Instead of the hot new superfighter prototype of the week, maybe they could focus on some serious character development as well as flesh out the world during or just after either of those eras.

In all fairness, we've had no stories about the "hot new superfighter prototype of the week".

Macross Plus, Macross 7, Macross Frontier, and Macross Delta do all feature next-generation fighters... but in each case, they're just early adopters of the next-generation's standard model or at least the design intended to be the next-generation's standard model.  Macross likes to mirror real world developments, and the latter two titles mirror the development in the real world as various nations develop and introduce their own 5th Generation fighters.  (The VF-31 is an especially blatant example, as it's transparently based on the efforts made to domestically develop a next-gen fighter in Japan.)

If we're going forward again, we'll likely/hopefully start to see stories where the 5th Generation VFs are the standard type.

 

16 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

The VF-3000 or the VF-5000 would be good candidates as the main VF for colonies in the first idea. The VF-2SS meantime would work for the second.

Stonewell and Bellcom only made a few VF-3000s, because of issues with the design.

The VF-5000 was widely used in the late 2010s and 2020s, but it's optimized for atmospheric use and shared the main fighter role with VFs designed for space operations like the VF-4.  I would love to see a series that actually uses the VF-4.

[Shawn]

Without de-railing the thread too much...what is the problem with the VF-3000...I love that design, was curious why they never did anything with it (in the Macross Universe)

[Seto Kaiba]

21 minutes ago, Shawn said:

Without de-railing the thread too much...what is the problem with the VF-3000...I love that design, was curious why they never did anything with it (in the Macross Universe)

The oldest explanation was that it had mechanical issues due to being essentially a "stretch" VF-1.

More recent explanations like the one in Macross Chronicle take a simpler approach, saying that it was a parallel development to the VF-4 that was cancelled with only a couple of prototypes completed because of the military's decision to adopt the VF-4.

[Bolt]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I would love to see a series that actually uses the VF-4.

Yes indeed!

[azrael]

6 hours ago, Shawn said:

Without de-railing the thread too much...what is the problem with the VF-3000...I love that design, was curious why they never did anything with it (in the Macross Universe)

Speaking of the VF-3000, I would like to see a series where the heroes are forced to use older VFs. For. The. Whole. Series. Not a Vanquish-racing situation where pilots intentionally take old VFs and soup 'em up with impossible performance numbers. Not as training vehicles. But use as their primary military vehicles. Like pre-VF-171. To tie to the real world, the US sells F-16 to other countries. The current stock of F-15s are being upgraded to F-15EXs cuz there aren't enough F-22s and F-35s to go around (and other reasons but nevermind that). F/A-18s are still out and about since the F-35 rollout is over-budget and delayed. The F-16 is a 50-year old design and is still seeing combat. The F-15 is 36-pushing-37 years old. The F/A-18E is 28 years old (with the original being 44 years old). All of them are still seeing use in combat. Why can't we have that in a Macross-series? It would be a good way to reuse some old toy molds with only minor tweaks and a new paint job on the merchandise-side. Mobile Suit Gundam: Cucuruz Doan's Island showed us the classics still look good with a bit of detail and some modern touches. Let's see some VF-4s, VF-5000s, VF-14s, VF-11s, proper VF-19s & VF-22s.

No VF-1s. 'Seen that twice already. No need to retread on that.

[JB0]

4 hours ago, azrael said:

No VF-1s. 'Seen that twice already. No need to retread on that.

Three if we count the time Gamlin stole Millia's VF-1 and then wrecked it immediately!

...

Wait, you said "whole series". Oh well.

I HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN, GAMLIN.

[TG Remix]

4 hours ago, azrael said:

Speaking of the VF-3000, I would like to see a series where the heroes are forced to use older VFs. For. The. Whole. Series. Not a Vanquish-racing situation where pilots intentionally take old VFs and soup 'em up with impossible performance numbers. Not as training vehicles. But use as their primary military vehicles. Like pre-VF-171. To tie to the real world, the US sells F-16 to other countries. The current stock of F-15s are being upgraded to F-15EXs cuz there aren't enough F-22s and F-35s to go around (and other reasons but nevermind that). F/A-18s are still out and about since the F-35 rollout is over-budget and delayed. The F-16 is a 50-year old design and is still seeing combat. The F-15 is 36-pushing-37 years old. The F/A-18E is 28 years old (with the original being 44 years old). All of them are still seeing use in combat. Why can't we have that in a Macross-series? It would be a good way to reuse some old toy molds with only minor tweaks and a new paint job on the merchandise-side. Mobile Suit Gundam: Cucuruz Doan's Island showed us the classics still look good with a bit of detail and some modern touches. Let's see some VF-4s, VF-5000s, VF-14s, VF-11s, proper VF-19s & VF-22s.

No VF-1s. 'Seen that twice already. No need to retread on that.

Absolutely agreed. Part of the reason why I love Macross compared to Gundam is that the mechs aren't outdated the moment they leave the fridge and reach room temperature. Even with the likes of the VF-1 and VF-5000 they're still used in some shape or form, or isn't immediately outclassed by newer technologies. There's still designs early in the timeline that haven't been properly drawn in Macross that existed beforehand like the VF-5, V-BR-2, VF-16, VA-14, and so on if you brand new designs to use. Export/monkey models" already is a established thing in 7 and the Frontier era so why not?

 

21 minutes ago, JB0 said:

I HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN, GAMLIN.

He tried his best with it, cut him some slack. 😆

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, azrael said:

Speaking of the VF-3000, I would like to see a series where the heroes are forced to use older VFs. For. The. Whole. Series. Not a Vanquish-racing situation where pilots intentionally take old VFs and soup 'em up with impossible performance numbers. Not as training vehicles. But use as their primary military vehicles. Like pre-VF-171. To tie to the real world, the US sells F-16 to other countries.

It'd really depend on when you set it... and exactly how broke the operators are.

Generally speaking, by the time a fighter aircraft is two generations old it's considered past the end of its useful service life and has either been retired or is in the process of being retired by anyone who used it except for the very poorest nations.  This may be somewhat mitigated by the fact that the Zentradi aren't developing new weapons of their own, so it could be said that the real world pressure to upgrade isn't entirely there in Macross.  Still, Macross R suggests that the New UN Forces are still largely following that guidance and retiring older models once they're two generations old.  Macross 7 Trash kind of implies the same, with the Macross 7 fleet having relegated the late model VF-4s to training units while they focus on phasing in a 4th Generation VF.

There are still a few countries operating 3rd Generation jet fighters like the MiG-23 and F-4 Phantom, but they're using late service life variants and either in the process of retiring them, have converted them to radio-controlled training targets, or are unable to afford to upgrade and are waiting to buy 4th Gen at fire sale prices when 5th Gen becomes the new normal.

It's not totally without precedent to continue using older model VFs in Macross though.  Macross Galaxy is still using some upgraded (E-type) VF-9s and VF-17s in 2059 in the TV series novelization of Macross Frontier, though the bulk of their forces are using the current-gen VF-171.

 

5 hours ago, JB0 said:

I HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN, GAMLIN.

Milia probably hasn't either.

I'd imagine there's probably a subtle guilt trip hidden in every Christmas card or something... 

[pengbuzz]

20 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I think it's probably got a lot more to do with another series we don't talk about than it does Gundam...

Good point

20 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

In all fairness, we've had no stories about the "hot new superfighter prototype of the week".

Macross Plus, Macross 7, Macross Frontier, and Macross Delta do all feature next-generation fighters... but in each case, they're just early adopters of the next-generation's standard model or at least the design intended to be the next-generation's standard model.  Macross likes to mirror real world developments, and the latter two titles mirror the development in the real world as various nations develop and introduce their own 5th Generation fighters.  (The VF-31 is an especially blatant example, as it's transparently based on the efforts made to domestically develop a next-gen fighter in Japan.)

If we're going forward again, we'll likely/hopefully start to see stories where the 5th Generation VFs are the standard type.

Yeah, I think I was crossing my wires with Gundam or something else, admittedly.

 

20 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Stonewell and Bellcom only made a few VF-3000s, because of issues with the design.

The VF-5000 was widely used in the late 2010s and 2020s, but it's optimized for atmospheric use and shared the main fighter role with VFs designed for space operations like the VF-4.  I would love to see a series that actually uses the VF-4.

I didn't know they had issues with the 3000 (don't really read much Japanese, so the Macross Chronicles and whatnot are not primarily in mind for me). As for the VF-4, not a big fan of that design to be honest.

  

12 hours ago, azrael said:

Speaking of the VF-3000, I would like to see a series where the heroes are forced to use older VFs. For. The. Whole. Series. Not a Vanquish-racing situation where pilots intentionally take old VFs and soup 'em up with impossible performance numbers. Not as training vehicles. But use as their primary military vehicles. Like pre-VF-171. To tie to the real world, the US sells F-16 to other countries. The current stock of F-15s are being upgraded to F-15EXs cuz there aren't enough F-22s and F-35s to go around (and other reasons but nevermind that). F/A-18s are still out and about since the F-35 rollout is over-budget and delayed. The F-16 is a 50-year old design and is still seeing combat. The F-15 is 36-pushing-37 years old. The F/A-18E is 28 years old (with the original being 44 years old). All of them are still seeing use in combat. Why can't we have that in a Macross-series? It would be a good way to reuse some old toy molds with only minor tweaks and a new paint job on the merchandise-side. Mobile Suit Gundam: Cucuruz Doan's Island showed us the classics still look good with a bit of detail and some modern touches. Let's see some VF-4s, VF-5000s, VF-14s, VF-11s, proper VF-19s & VF-22s.

No VF-1s. 'Seen that twice already. No need to retread on that.

I like that concept!  It would also allow the characters to show development in their combat flying skills, and really push people to their limits in having to improvise tactics and strategy to overcome the limits of the tech they're using and the advantage of the enemy.

Edited August 9, 2023 by pengbuzz

[azrael]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It'd really depend on when you set it... and exactly how broke the operators are.

Generally speaking, by the time a fighter aircraft is two generations old it's considered past the end of its useful service life and has either been retired or is in the process of being retired by anyone who used it except for the very poorest nations. 

Why not set it whenever they are in the timeline. The present, whenever that may be. And who says they need to be broke? 'Have some imagination.

2 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

It would also allow the characters to show development in their combat flying skills, and really push people to their limits in having to improvise tactics and strategy to overcome the limits of the tech they're using and the advantage of the enemy.

Max Jenius in Macross Delta. The man is in his 70s, flying a YF-29 like he was in his 20s, kicking an entire group of kids flying the new hotness. Granted, a man of his age shouldn't be flying. And he should not be piloting a YF-29 and definitely not like someone 1/3 his age. I'm surprise he didn't go into full cardiac arrest pulling some moves like that as opposed to just clutching his chest.

[Seto Kaiba]

14 minutes ago, azrael said:

Why not set it whenever they are in the timeline. The present, whenever that may be. And who says they need to be broke? 'Have some imagination.

Well, for the reason I just explained... any government with the means to do so would have upgraded several times since the heyday of the VF-4, VF-5000, VF-11, VF-14, and by the time of Frontier or Delta would have either decommissioned or scrapped the 3rd Gen and older VFs.

That's why most Vanquish Racers use 2nd and 3rd Gen VFs... they're buying decommissioned and disarmed ex-military Valkyries at disposal sales.

[pengbuzz]

14 hours ago, azrael said:

Why not set it whenever they are in the timeline. The present, whenever that may be. And who says they need to be broke? 'Have some imagination.

Max Jenius in Macross Delta. The man is in his 70s, flying a YF-29 like he was in his 20s, kicking an entire group of kids flying the new hotness. Granted, a man of his age shouldn't be flying. And he should not be piloting a YF-29 and definitely not like someone 1/3 his age. I'm surprise he didn't go into full cardiac arrest pulling some moves like that as opposed to just clutching his chest.

Guess Metamucil only goes so far...

[kajnrig]

16 hours ago, azrael said:

Granted, a man of his age shouldn't be flying. And he should not be piloting a YF-29 and definitely not like someone 1/3 his age. I'm surprise he didn't go into full cardiac arrest pulling some moves like that as opposed to just clutching his chest.

Given all the BS technology that goes into the YF-29, I wouldn't be surprised if it also included hyper dyper super dimension inertia (drift) store converter that would make the experience for him akin to driving a mildly tuned sports car. Like a Miata with the top cover removed or something.

[Chronocidal]

I'd love to see them actually make something that would encourage Arcadia to put out more VF-11s, or better yet, some of those early-production VF-19 variants.

I think the biggest problem with any of that happening is a mix of Bandai and Kawamori himself, though.  You aren't going to stop Kawamori from designing fancy new VFs for every new release, whether they fit the setting or not, as seen with the VF-0.  And as long as Bandai is funding the show, it's going to be driven by their desire to make as many fancy and colorful new toys as possible (even if they never bother to capitalize on the designs).

Very likely that the best we're going to get is brief cameos of old designs, as seen in Delta.  

At this point, the best I'm going to hope for is that we get something without the insane airshow demonstration team schemes this time around.  

Edited August 10, 2023 by Chronocidal

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

Given all the BS technology that goes into the YF-29, I wouldn't be surprised if it also included hyper dyper super dimension inertia (drift) store converter that would make the experience for him akin to driving a mildly tuned sports car. Like a Miata with the top cover removed or something.

Don't get me wrong, the YF-29 has one of the best ISC systems around... but it's not that good.  It can buffer up to 30G (an improvement over the VF-25/VF-27's 27.5G) but the YF-29 can pull 40G from a standing start... so if he's drawing the YF-29's abilities out to the fullest he's still potentially feeling 7.5-10G, which is a LOT for a 70 year old.

(My best math suggests a drift racer pulls not more than about 2G.)

 

1 minute ago, Chronocidal said:

I'd love to see them actually make something that would encourage Arcadia to put out more VF-11s, or better yet, some of those early-production VF-19 variants.

Same.

I'm still waiting for my DX VF-11C Mina Fortre... but hell, any excuse to get an updated VF-11 would be fantastic.

Anything with the older Valks would be fantastic, though they'd probably have to go backwards in the timeline to do it.

[Raikkonen]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 so if he's drawing the YF-29's abilities out to the fullest he's still potentially feeling 7.5-10G, which is a LOT for a 70 year old.

But it's a 70 year old in a universe where singers wear auto-morphing wardrobes. 

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

But it's a 70 year old in a universe where singers wear auto-morphing wardrobes. 

Not s'much... Walkure's outfits, like Sheryl's and Ranka's before them, are nothing so fancy as morphing smart materials.  Their changeable costumes are holograms projected over a lightly armored bodysuit.  It's a portable version of the same tech that was used for entertainment purposes in DYRL?.  

That said, said 70 year old man does live in a world where medical technology is way more advancd and (illegal) cybernetics have already raised the possibiity of post-biological humanity.

Y'know, that got me thinking... it's been a hot minute since we've had a Macross story that showed what civilian life is like.  It'd be interesting to get another title with more of a civilian focus like Macross 7 or Macross R and get a look at what folks are doing for fun and profit in the 2070s or wherever we're headed next.

[pengbuzz]

48 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not s'much... Walkure's outfits, like Sheryl's and Ranka's before them, are nothing so fancy as morphing smart materials.  Their changeable costumes are holograms projected over a lightly armored bodysuit.  It's a portable version of the same tech that was used for entertainment purposes in DYRL?.  

That said, said 70 year old man does live in a world where medical technology is way more advancd and (illegal) cybernetics have already raised the possibiity of post-biological humanity.

Y'know, that got me thinking... it's been a hot minute since we've had a Macross story that showed what civilian life is like.  It'd be interesting to get another title with more of a civilian focus like Macross 7 or Macross R and get a look at what folks are doing for fun and profit in the 2070s or wherever we're headed next.

Right; for that matter, what would be the current lifespan of your average person given such advances? I'm sure overtechnology and the Zentraedi cloning machines have given some insight on human anatomy and physiology.

Guess we'll have to see, but maybe "70" isn't so old anymore?

[camk4evr]

To be fair, Max has spent a fair amount of time traveling  through fold space over the years. Since we know time experienced during a fold is not exactly 1 to 1 with time ellapsed in real space it's, therefore, possible that he is physically a bit younger than he is chronologically. Say maybe a year or so younger^_^

[Raikkonen]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not s'much... Walkure's outfits, like Sheryl's and Ranka's before them, are nothing so fancy as morphing smart materials.  Their changeable costumes are holograms projected over a lightly armored bodysuit.  It's a portable version of the same tech that was used for entertainment purposes in DYRL?.  

That said, said 70 year old man does live in a world where medical technology is way more advancd and (illegal) cybernetics have already raised the possibiity of post-biological humanity.

Y'know, that got me thinking... it's been a hot minute since we've had a Macross story that showed what civilian life is like.  It'd be interesting to get another title with more of a civilian focus like Macross 7 or Macross R and get a look at what folks are doing for fun and profit in the 2070s or wherever we're headed next.

This is my point, in that since they have such technology for such outfits, it means medical science is on a whole other level which will allow a 70 year old man to fly such machines. 

But as you also pointed out, considering Grace's existence, we shouldn't be surprised if Max returns to the cockpit when he's 90 years old and probably looking younger. 

Yeah, it would be interesting to see again general civilian life post Frontier, but doubt it would be much different to the glimpses of Frontier. 

[Seto Kaiba]

16 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Right; for that matter, what would be the current lifespan of your average person given such advances? I'm sure overtechnology and the Zentraedi cloning machines have given some insight on human anatomy and physiology.

Guess we'll have to see, but maybe "70" isn't so old anymore?

70's apparently stilll on the wrong side of mandatory retirement age... Max's whole schtick in Absolute Live!!!!!! being that he took a "I'm bored in retirement" gig with Xaos after he retired from the Spacy, so presumably medical tech hasn't come that far.  Max is just exceptional as ever.

[twich]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:35 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Don't get me wrong, the YF-29 has one of the best ISC systems around... but it's not that good.  It can buffer up to 30G (an improvement over the VF-25/VF-27's 27.5G) but the YF-29 can pull 40G from a standing start... so if he's drawing the YF-29's abilities out to the fullest he's still potentially feeling 7.5-10G, which is a LOT for a 70 year old.

(My best math suggests a drift racer pulls not more than about 2G.)

 

Same.

I'm still waiting for my DX VF-11C Mina Fortre... but hell, any excuse to get an updated VF-11 would be fantastic.

Anything with the older Valks would be fantastic, though they'd probably have to go backwards in the timeline to do it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t the SV-262 have an ISC that stores 30.8G? So, isn’t it a little better by 0.8G. I thought someone said that it was developed from the YF-29 ISC, but I maybe mistaken.

Twich

[pengbuzz]

On 7/11/2023 at 9:44 AM, kazuo said:

If you put me on a desert island and I could only watch one show out of the following for the remainder of my life: Delta, Frontier, 7, Witch, I'd pick the Witch 100 times out of 100. You guys are absolutely crazy if you think I want to listen to Planet Dance one more time, or see AKB48 in the sky, or Ranka. Witch is far from high art and it has a lot of flaws, but I stand by what I said about it being better than anything post-Plus.

I'd rather listen to Planet Dance than watch the absolute train wreck that "Witch from Mercury" turned out to be from go. Not to mention Fire Bomber would trash Walkure any day of the week.

  Plus for the story and characters, MII for the mecha and 7 for the music!

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

70's apparently stilll on the wrong side of mandatory retirement age... Max's whole schtick in Absolute Live!!!!!! being that he took a "I'm bored in retirement" gig with Xaos after he retired from the Spacy, so presumably medical tech hasn't come that far.  Max is just exceptional as ever.

Why is it now I can imagine him sitting at home trying to tune his pacemaker?

[Bolt]

[Seto Kaiba]

15 hours ago, twich said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t the SV-262 have an ISC that stores 30.8G? So, isn’t it a little better by 0.8G. I thought someone said that it was developed from the YF-29 ISC, but I maybe mistaken.

It does... it's an improved version of the same ISC/T021 used on the VF-25, VF-27, and VF-31.  The overall effectiveness of fold devices reflects both the quantity and quality of the fold carbon or fold quartz used in their construction.  The YF-29 uses a different model, the T022.  The Sv-262's T021G is likely a "brute force" improvement by using higher quality fold quartz that Windermere IV had in abundance.  A similar brute force improvement exists in the Sv-262's Fold Reheat system between the Ba and Hs variants, with the Hs's fold reheat having higher output due to better quality fold quartz provided by the royal family.

Assuming the timeline once again moves forward for the next series, we can probably assume that fold quartz will remain a highly valuable and heavily regulated material since it can't be synthesized by Human technology (yet) and has myriad military applications including planet-killing WMDs.  Maybe we'll finally get to see some results of the fold quartz "gold rush" that drove Frontier's plot in the next series, with commercial applications of zero-time fold systems.

 

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Why is it now I can imagine him sitting at home trying to tune his pacemaker?

He's having chest pains caused by overexertion as of Absolute Live!!!!!!, so maybe...

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

We've had Mazinkaiser SKL... maybe follow it up with Mazinger SDF?  

[JB0]

5 hours ago, Bolt said:

This part of Mazinger Zero's "every mech anime is Mazinger Z" scheme?

[Raikkonen]

On 8/13/2023 at 1:26 AM, JB0 said:

This part of Mazinger Zero's "every mech anime is Mazinger Z" scheme?

It does say zero beneath the signature. 

[Xenon]

Uff. I'm really not sure what to think about Sunrise doing the next Macross. I was really, really very late to the Gundam party (it didn't broadcast in eastern Canada, where I grew up, so I missed it then), and actually didn't start watching it until this year. Without wanting to turn this into a Gundam slag-fest ... it's definitely not for me. The original series is a really tough, meandering slog that doesn't believe in good pacing or character development, and Zeta Gundam didn't improve this in the least. I ended up bailing out on it three quarters of the way through Zeta.

My point being that if Sunrise adopt Gundam-style storytelling for Macross, then we're in trouble. Well, not us, but the Macross franchise certainly would be. It's just not a good fit, in my opinion.

That having been said, something Sunrise have going in their favour is the legacy of mecha anime — and if some of the click-baity articles on the web these days are to be believed, mecha anime is making a comeback, thanks to the last Gundam thing (in part, or in whole — opinions are varied). So, they bring that to the Macross party, at least.

All the same, I have questions. Chief among which: with Sunrise producing this, what will Shōji Kawamori's role in this be, if any? According to the WIkipedia article on him, he's (still) employed with Satelight. Will he get brought on board by Sunrise? Or has he handed off his work, and is walking away from it, from here on in? What about other legacy Macross creatives, like Haruhiko Mikimoto?

We'll see how that goes. When is all said and done, I'm happy we'll (eventually) be getting new Macross.

Naturally I've got some wishes.

Directed by: Shinichirō Watanabe
Story: Masamune Shirow
Character Design: Masamune Shirow
Mechanical Design: Kenichi Sonoda
Music: Yoko Kanno

Oh, wait ... you mean my wish list is supposed to be serious and realistic? Sorry 'bout that.

But, actually, not entirely: maybe it's time Kawamori does hand the work off to some different or new blood, as long as a new studio is getting involved. Might freshen the franchise up a bit? Also, I dare you to suggest that a Shirow/Sonoda team-up on Macross wouldn't be awesome. Go on. I dare you.

In any case, my actual wish list:

• The core elements of the franchise (love triangle, conflict, singers/idols) need to be re-balanced badly, especially the singers/idols. I'm not suggesting we get rid of the concept entirely, but we need to focus less on it. SDFM/DYRL got the balance mostly right; M+ got the balance beautifully (and also completely subverted it, which was a pro move); M7 balanced it mostly okay, but the writing was on the wall; M0 skipped the idol concept (but not the music concept) entirely, and was perhaps too gritty; MF and MΔ just went way, way, way too far in idol territory. I would very much like to back to a proper space opera again with a well-rounded approach to what makes Macross what it is, is what I'm saying.
   
• On the back of the above, and related to it, I'd be keen to have a bit more of a 'mature' Macross on the next pass, and less tweeny-goofy — though not necessarily gritty, Gundam-stylee. M0 went in that direction, and it was a bit too heavy at times. That scene during the bombardment of the village, where the crying child is holding their dead parent's hand as everything explodes and burns around them? Yeah, that was a gut-punch I didn't need.
   
• Let's trim the fat, yeah? MΔ had entirely too many characters, and — if I'm being truly honest — I can't remember the names of most of them, and they mostly feel flat, un-developed, and un-memorable to me. It's kind of like those cheap pan-Asian or Indian restaurants you find everywhere in the west: 72 items on the menu that you order not by name, but by number, and none of them anywhere close to being awesome. Fewer items on the menu, so that they're all prepared with care and delicious, please.
   
• For the love of all of our mothers, please, please, please dial the art direction back a bit. With every successive series/OVA/film, it gets more and more over-stimulating with all the saturated colours, jammed-packed scenery, high frame rate action scenes with 65 000 split-second jump cuts within 4 seconds. I feel like I should be taking a couple of Ritalins after each episode of MΔ.
   
• In a similar vein, less is more. The artwork in modern Macross is so over-designed, over-wrought, and hyper-detailed that I feel like I'm looking at everything through a microscope. Clean up the artwork a little bit so that we can take more in as we watch.
   
• I'm not on Team SDFM Remake. Some here have suggested it in previous posts, and I know where they're coming from, but I don't think it's necessary. The SDFM story gets recapped/retold to some degree or other in every series and OVA since M7 — I'm guessing even the youngest fans have gone and watched either SDFM or DYRL (although, I really don't recommend DYRL as someone's first exposure) at some point, and caught themselves up. Someone earlier mentioned SBY2199 as being the gold remake standard, and I would wholeheartedly agree (god, what a magnificent piece of work, actually). But, the Yamato franchise is different than Macross, in so far as Yamato doesn't have decades of content that came out after the original show like Macross does — so, it makes sense for SBY2199 to exist. Especially if the plan is to keep going with new, original stuff after all the remakes are done (which I hope they do).
   
• What I would like to see, though, is a story that focusses on the adventures of Megaroad-01. It's been the biggest elephant in the room since Flashback 2012 (an elephant of Studio Nue's own creation, given they were adamant Macross was done after FB2012. This is on them), going largely un-addressed until MΔ, except in vague allusions. It's only in MΔ:AL that we started getting a bit more concrete info. At the same time, I also got the feeling MΔ:AL was kind of setting that story up, somehow. So, let's do it. Let's go back to 2012, and see what Misa, Hikaru, Minmei & Co got up to. And, to me, it makes sense to tell this story: without it, M+, M7, MF, MΔ (and, to some extent, M0, but for different reasons) wouldn't exist. If they play their cards right, the story could span the time from their launch all the way to MΔ:AL. It'd be a great opportunity for addtional, new world-building, too. I know Hikaru's voice actor sadly passed away years ago, but I'd be absolutely OK with re-casting him.
   
• Now, listen: I love Max and Milia. You love Max and Milia. Everyone loves Max and Milia. But, I really don't need them or their various progeny to turn up everywhere. So, unless there's a very good reason for the Jenius clan to turn up (I could see them having a part to play in a Megaroad-01 story, for example), I'm more than happy to move on from them.
   
• Also, whilst we're talking about story, let's lower the stakes. Not everything needs to be about world/universe-ending badness. So, so, so much of modern sci-fi and fantasy is about something cataclysmic, from Marvel to Star Trek: Discovery (spit) to Macross, and beyond. It's exhausting. Stop it. Magnificent, epic stories can be told even when the stakes are much lower (why, hello there, Macross Plus).

I think that's about it. At the end of the day, though, the only real information we have is that new Macross is coming and Sunrise is producing it, which isn't a whole lot to go on. For all we know, it could be another 30-minute music video, FB2012-stylee, or another short film about one of the existing stories, like the MF one at the beginning of MΔ:AL. So, having this sort of wishlist might be an entirely pointless exercise.

Still — if New Sunrise Macross™ doesn't have surfing SDFs, dancing Valkyries, and "Planet-frakking-Dance" playing five times per episode, we're already on the right path.

Err, also: hi, there. New here.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Xenon
Misc typos

[TG Remix]

2 hours ago, Xenon said:

Uff. I'm really not sure what to think about Sunrise doing the next Macross. I was really, really very late to the Gundam party (it didn't broadcast in eastern Canada, where I grew up, so I missed it then), and actually didn't start watching it until this year. Without wanting to turn this into a Gundam slag-fest ... it's definitely not for me. The original series is a really tough, meandering slog that doesn't believe in good pacing or character development, and Zeta Gundam didn't improve this in the least. I ended up bailing out on it three quarters of the way through Zeta.

My point being that if Sunrise adopt Gundam-style storytelling for Macross, then we're in trouble. Well, not us, but the Macross franchise certainly would be. It's just not a good fit, in my opinion.

You know different (and scathing takes) aside, I'm not sure why so many people think just because Sunrise is going to make the new series that means its going to be more like Gundam (Whatever that means at this point, there's been nearly 4 and a half decades worth of the franchise and I've learned the name means completely different things to other people.) Just like how Plus got many different people outside of Studio Nue's/Big West's usual payroll (Who the majority would work on Cowboy Bebop in Sunrise) and how the franchise moved to Satelight away from the company to begin with, we're still gonna have a few veterans like Kawamori, Tenjin, and Miyakate going to be involved in the creative progress.

 

Also the last time Macross became more "Gundam" we got Macross II, which other then the occasional reference and inclusion in the Macross Chronicle books has never been that referential in Kawamori's stuff. And for all you can say about 7, Frontier, and Delta's writing they certainly weren't boring compared to II.

[Raikkonen]

6 hours ago, TG Remix said:

You know different (and scathing takes) aside, I'm not sure why so many people think just because Sunrise is going to make the new series that means its going to be more like Gundam (Whatever that means at this point, there's been nearly 4 and a half decades worth of the franchise and I've learned the name means completely different things to other people.) Just like how Plus got many different people outside of Studio Nue's/Big West's usual payroll (Who the majority would work on Cowboy Bebop in Sunrise) and how the franchise moved to Satelight away from the company to begin with, we're still gonna have a few veterans like Kawamori, Tenjin, and Miyakate going to be involved in the creative progress.

 

Also the last time Macross became more "Gundam" we got Macross II, which other then the occasional reference and inclusion in the Macross Chronicle books has never been that referential in Kawamori's stuff. And for all you can say about 7, Frontier, and Delta's writing they certainly weren't boring compared to II.

Well, if the new Macross will be more grounded to the style of the recent Gundam: The Origin, Thunderbolt, Hathaway or Cucuruz Doan's Island, I'm all in. I'm just staying positive it will avoid all the cringiness of 7 and Delta.