Star Trek: Section 31

[UN Spacy]

 

[kalvasflam]

now that's something I'd actually watch.  the dirty side of the trekverse.  where we screw our enemies and not care about the consequences.

[Bolt]

Hmm. Could be fun..

Very un-Star Trek..

[Seto Kaiba]

Pass... I'm thoroughly sick of seeing the current CBS staff try to turn Star Trek into Warhammer 40,000.

[Sildani]

You too? They seem to be running away screaming from the enlightened eutopia-ish Federation Roddenberry envisioned. 

[kalvasflam]

I haven't watched the current Trek, so I wouldn't know, but I think it would be a nice counter point to the original TNG and even DS9.  Which is, the Federation is a force for good (propaganda), it's worth preserving (self importance), and sometimes, we need to get dirty to face the threats both external and internal that can tear it apart (finally, some truth)

Also, TOS was not all sunshine and unicorn, there were some pretty dark situations that just happened to be dealt with by a living legend.  (That and the fact that Roddenberry realized NBC needed stuff that had conflict for prime time, because near Utopia just doesn't sell as well.  Sure, he put in a lot of hints about Federation being a utopia, but not really on the frontiers.)

One final point, Yeoh should be pretty good in the role considering that she did a fair job portraying the devil mother in law to be in Crazy Rich Asians.  (You can see the ruthlessness oozing out of her)

Edited January 15, 2019 by kalvasflam

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Sildani said:

You too? They seem to be running away screaming from the enlightened eutopia-ish Federation Roddenberry envisioned. 

Yeah, it really seems to me like they'd be a lot happier writing for Battlestar Galactica or a similar dystopian series.

 

 

3 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

I haven't watched the current Trek, so I wouldn't know, but I think it would be a nice counter point to the original TNG and even DS9.  Which is, the Federation is a force for good (propaganda), it's worth preserving (self importance), and sometimes, we need to get dirty to face the threats both external and internal that can tear it apart (finally, some truth)

Deep Space Nine did a pretty good job showing the external and internal conflicts... from the attempted coup by a member of the Starfleet brass to the Dominion and Klingon Wars.

Mind you, Star Trek was designed to be an optimistic future.  The Federation IS a force for good because of what it stands for: the desire for peaceful coexistence, nonviolent conflict resolution, scientific and intellectual endeavor, and a fundamental respect for the diversity of life in all its myriad forms.  It's worth preserving precisely because of what it stands for.  It's not perfect, but it's an enormous aspirational step up from what we have today.  That aspirational aspect of it was, as they say, the point.  It's not propaganda, in-universe or otherwise... the Federation is meant to be emblematic of what we could achieve if we got our sh*t together as a species.  The kind of xenophobia and general bigotry on display in Discovery is about as far from Gene's vision as it's possible to get.

"Getting dirty" does not fundamentally entail compromising one's principles... which was, amusingly enough, the late realization had by Burnham at the end of Discovery's first season.  Starfleet might have to occasionally bust heads to preserve truth, justice, and freedom in the galaxy... but by golly they'll bust heads with the utmost civility and to the bare minimum necessary to get the job done because those busted heads are people too.

 

3 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

Also, TOS was not all sunshine and unicorn, there were some pretty dark situations that just happened to be dealt with by a living legend.  (That and the fact that Roddenberry realized NBC needed stuff that had conflict for prime time, because near Utopia just doesn't sell as well.  Sure, he put in a lot of hints about Federation being a utopia, but not really on the frontiers.)

As a point of order, said frontier generally wasn't part of the Federation (yet).

Sisko gave a better summation of it with the "Saints in Paradise" speech from "The Maquis"... but, then again, the colonies out in the DMZ and Bajor were also technically NOT part of the Federation ("yet" in the case of Bajor).

The Federation is a pseudo-utopia, so most of the space adventure takes place beyond utopia's borders.

 

3 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

One final point, Yeoh should be pretty good in the role considering that she did a fair job portraying the devil mother in law to be in Crazy Rich Asians.  (You can see the ruthlessness oozing out of her)

She was, frankly, quite good as the prime universe Georgeau... to the extent that she was essentially the only character on the show who seemed to realize how a Starfleet officer should behave.

[sh9000]

https://www.startrek.com/news/star-trek-section-31-original-movie-event-michelle-yeoh

[Seto Kaiba]

We have literally three seasons of rock-bottom rated Discovery episodes to show why this is a bad idea... but Kurtzman's ilk do not learn from their mistakes.

[Thom]

Yeah, zero interest.

Saturn, over on Starship Modeler, suggested they just put her back in the captain's chair as Captain Philippa Georgiou and build a series out from there. I like that idea.

[Seto Kaiba]

45 minutes ago, Thom said:

Yeah, zero interest.

Saturn, over on Starship Modeler, suggested they just put her back in the captain's chair as Captain Philippa Georgiou and build a series out from there. I like that idea.

I'd watch that... as long as it was prime!Georgiou and not Emperor Georgiou.  I've got no interest in The Continuing Adventures of Girl Space Hitler: Secret Agent.

Prime!Georgiou was the only character in Discovery's first season who acted like she belonged to the Starfleet and Star Trek we know and love.

[tekering]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Prime!Georgiou was the only character in Discovery's first season who acted like she belonged to the Starfleet and Star Trek we know and love.

The only one?  I thought Saru was a quintessentially Star Trek character... 

In fact, he acted more like Spock than Spock did in Discovery. 😅

[Thom]

On 4/18/2023 at 11:01 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

I'd watch that... as long as it was prime!Georgiou and not Emperor Georgiou.  I've got no interest in The Continuing Adventures of Girl Space Hitler: Secret Agent.

Prime!Georgiou was the only character in Discovery's first season who acted like she belonged to the Starfleet and Star Trek we know and love.

Definitely Prime Georgiou!

[sh9000]

 

[Dynaman]

I have Paramount+ so I'll watch this - but if that trailer is any indication I'll only be watching 20 minutes or so of it.

[lechuck]

Eh... seems like they are trying to do a Suicide Squad thing with Star Trek – acid characters with team play. 

I feel like this is not appropriate for something like Star Trek.

[pengbuzz]

This isn't Star Trek.

If I want gritty, dark and dystopian, there are plenty of other franchises for that. They need to give Star Trek a rest for a while (continue SNW but not do much else new) and stop trying to be the next BSG:R

[Seto Kaiba]

*sigh*  In a way, it's kind of impressive how committed Paramount is to ignoring audience feedback.

Star Trek fans said loud and clear (and repeatedly) that they don't want this vaguely racist dystopian misery porn.  That's a big part of why Star Trek: Discovery flopped domestically and internationally and was cancelled two seasons early to finish as the franchise's worst-rated series. 

The whole Section 31 concept was already pretty goofy in Deep Space Nine, but Discovery's version was so incredibly stupid that it was one of the most-mocked parts of the series up to that point.  Even Lower Decks called out how stupid it was.  That's why they put Michelle Yeoh's character on a bus.  I'm amazed she didn't demand to exit sooner, given that she was stuck playing a cringeworthy and deeply racist "yellow peril" villain.

I guess, at the very least, she might be able to use this to add a Razzie to her list of awards, because this looks absolutle dogsh*t.

[Thom]

Yeah, I don't need 'dark and gritty' in Star Trek. The same thing bit it in Battlestar Galactica, and Paramount can't seem to do it well anyway.

Give me Star Trek Legacy, Paramount!

[Mog]

Meh, always viewed Section 31 as the bastards that did the dirty work to keep Starfleet and the Federation “protected.”

Like “Eff your morals and ethics.  If diplomacy ain’t working, we’ll do what needs to be done to keep our side successful.  AND we’ll do it ‘quietly,’ so none are the wiser.”

Which is the exact opposite of what this trailer is trying to promote.

[Dynaman]

1 hour ago, Mog said:

Like “Eff your morals and ethics.  If diplomacy ain’t working, we’ll do what needs to be done to keep our side successful.  AND we’ll do it ‘quietly,’ so none are the wiser.”

Which is the exact opposite of what this trailer is trying to promote.

Section 31 has been like that since it was first brought up.  The supposed secret that EVERYONE knows all about.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Mog said:

Meh, always viewed Section 31 as the bastards that did the dirty work to keep Starfleet and the Federation “protected.”

Like “Eff your morals and ethics.  If diplomacy ain’t working, we’ll do what needs to be done to keep our side successful.  AND we’ll do it ‘quietly,’ so none are the wiser.”

1 hour ago, Dynaman said:

Section 31 has been like that since it was first brought up.  The supposed secret that EVERYONE knows all about.

That's certainly how Sloane presented the organization when it made its debut in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Season 6's "Inquisition".

Of course, that didn't really last much past their first appearance as by Season 7's "Inter Enim Arma Silent Leges" they had effectively grabbed the villain ball with both hands and transitioned from "so secret even the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order don't know about them" to being an open secret protected only by the most ridiculous arbitrary skepticism.

Discovery just made it a million times worse by having them walking around openly on starships with special Starfleet badges indicating their affiliation openly.  That series also screwed them up worse by making them more or less indistinguishable from Starfleet Intelligence, borrowing large chunks of plot from the much (and deservedly) maligned DS9 relaunch novel series's Control mini-arc, and turning them into little more than Starfleet's Murder Inc.

 

2 hours ago, Mog said:

Which is the exact opposite of what this trailer is trying to promote.

Yup.  Even the novels, awful as the are, did a better job of depicting Section 31 as a covert organization.

This is like off-brand James Bond, but with a really kitschy sci-fi aesthetic slapped on that manages to look hilariously cheap despite the no doubt ridiculously huge budget.

[sh9000]

Teaser Trailer.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

This is going to bomb so hard that it's going to cross the line twice from funny to not funny to actually pretty hilarious.

It really is nice of Paramount+ to continue setting millions of dollars on fire for no gain other than helping Michelle Yeoh join that select community of actors and actresses who have both an Academy Award and a Golden Raspberry.  Nicer still of them to give it a 2025 release date so it won't contest Lionsgate's Borderlands for the title of worst sci-fi film for 2024.

Section 31 is the unasked-for spinoff to Star Trek's all-time lowest-rated and least succesful series starring one of its most loathed characters in-story and out.  Nothing about that is a recipe for success.  You'd almost suspect Paramount+ is Springtime for Hitler-ing this.

[Dynaman]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

  You'd almost suspect Paramount+ is Springtime for Hitler-ing this.

Paramount would love that, Springtime for Hitler being an unexpected smash hit...  But I really don't see that fate for THIS show.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

Paramount would love that, Springtime for Hitler being an unexpected smash hit...  But I really don't see that fate for THIS show.

I was thinking more the intended outcome... flying it into the ground deliberately in order to run off with the investors money. 🤣

[Dynaman]

On 10/20/2024 at 8:22 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

I was thinking more the intended outcome... flying it into the ground deliberately in order to run off with the investors money. 🤣

I wonder how many little old ladies they tried to con...

[Old_Nash_II]

Nice Star Trek Rebels XD

 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Old_Nash_II said:

Nice Star Trek Rebels XD

Wow.  I mean, I was expecting Star Trek: Section 31 to look like ass and have aggressively bad writing because it's Kurtzman's pet project and a hilariously ill-advised spinoff of the franchise's all-time worst rated series (Discovery) starring its most hated character.  Am I crazy, or does nothing about that sound like a good idea?

I want to see this, but only so I can compare it to the Borderlands film in terms of "What the actual f*** were they thinking?"  Star Trek: Springtime for Space Hitler's definitely going to be a cringeworthy exercise and another ungentle reminder that Discovery was a mistake.

Paramount's hemorraging money and its share price is down over 70% across the last five years.  The company is desperate to sell out or merge with another so someone else can take the helm... and this is what they're sinking money into?  🤣

Edited December 7, 2024 by Seto Kaiba

[JB0]

1 minute ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Paramount's hemorraging money and its share price is down over 70% across the last five years.  The company is desperate to sell out or merge with another so someone else can take the helm... and this is what they're sinking money into?  🤣

Well, if they knew what to sink money into, they wouldn't be having those problems.

[TangledThorns]

Oh no, more threats in Star Trek...

[Dynaman]

I watched the first 10 minutes or so (just when the disco/bar scene starts) and I could not keep watching.  If anyone makes it past there and finds it gets MUCH better let us know.  Otherwise I can't stand to watch any more.  

[Seto Kaiba]

Big oof... the professional reviews are starting to trickle in for Star Trek: Section 31 and, as predicted, it's atrociously bad.

Pithy turns-of-phrase like "Set phasers to shun", "Boldly going where no one should", and "An embarrassment from start to end" feature prominently among the gentler professional reviews from news outlets.  Less diplomatic professional reviews call the made-for-TV movie "unwatchable", "a mistake", and "a mediocre episode of a television show that doesn't exist".

At time of writing, Section 31 has done what Star Trek: Discovery narrowly failed to: dethrone Star Trek V: the Final Frontier as the single worst-reviewedStar Trek title of all time.  And it managed it in both categories on Rotten Tomatoes with a 20% critic score and 20% audience score, compared to Final Frontier's 23% and 25% respectively.

 

I wasn't planning to reactivate my Paramount+ account to watch Section 31 because I figured it would be a turd, but after reading the reviews I'm questioning whether even hoisting the old Jolly Roger is worth it to subject myself to this cinematic crime against humanity.  

Here's hoping this disastrous public failure will finally be enough to convince Paramount that the time has come to evict Alex Kurtzman and the Pakleds he's staffed the franchise's writer's rooms with and tell them to take the other doomed Discovery spinoff with them when they go.

[Thom]

I didn't have any interest in this anyway, so 'oh well...' The whole 'Section 31' thing has been iffy ever since its incemption on Enterprise, and every iteration since just seems to double-down on Bad. Why they think spinning it out over and over again will somehow punch through to an audience that doesn't really care about it is the real plot here.

Michelle Yeoh is great, and I would hope that she would stop wasting her time on this. Her character was best as Georgio and they should get her back on that. They want another Star Trek show, then bring back Captain Georgio, either in her origal role with some sci-fi hand-wavium to explain her resurrection, or in tha actual TOS timeline. Although, they would then have to explain away her being a starship captain, when in canon they aren't any women in that role, but it can be done.

She, and SNW, is only good thing to come out of STD! 

..edit - and Dadmiral!

Edited January 25 by Thom

[Dynaman]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

I didn't have any interest in this anyway, so 'oh well...' The whole 'Section 31' thing has been iffy ever since its incemption on Enterprise, and every iteration since just seems to double-down on Bad. Why they think spinning it out over and over again will somehow punch through to an audience that doesn't really care about it is the real plot here.

The problem is not Section 31 in particular.  This movie was bad from the get go.  Terrible writing no matter what universe it was written for.  I say from the get go since I only made it through about 10 minutes.  I was not watching it looking to hate it either.  Last time I had a franchise move that was so terrible was the second Indiana Jones movie. 

Edited January 25 by Dynaman