Post Skywalker Saga Star Wars Movies and Projects

[Bolt]

We have some time to see. Probably comics and books will be first. And existing shows, Clone Wars, The Mandalorian, Etc. May be retconning 420 Republic references into their stories now.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Bolt

[Chronocidal]

12 hours ago, Mommar said:

She was talking about Breha Organa.  That line was just before the Brother/Sister revelation when she still thought Breha was her Mother.

While I would like to know the source on this, and whether it was from Lucas himself or the EU, my understanding was that Breha also died when she was very young, so if her father remarried, she would have had a second adoptive mother, and remembered Breha as her real mother, because she was never told otherwise.  My instinct is that this was an EU detail.

12 hours ago, renegadeleader1 said:

Luke asks her "Do you remember your mother, your REAL mother?"

5 hours ago, Dynaman said:

correct - It was not the adoptive mom she was talking about remembering.

I never thought Leia even knew she was adopted to begin with until Luke spilled the details to her.  Given the facts of her parentage, I could easily understand never revealing that to her, for her own safety.

The thing to keep in mind is that it was entirely within Disney's power to unscrew that mess of a line and have Breha die in Leia's early childhood, but it sounds like they have her living until Alderaan was destroyed?  For all the cherry-picking they do from the EU, that was one element they absolutely needed to keep, but I think coherent storytelling and world-building is entirely beyond them at this point.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Chronocidal

[Seto Kaiba]

22 hours ago, peter said:

Well, there's one cause for optimism... item 4 under "Fiction" shows that at least they've realized they have to have an actual ending.

The whole new trilogy kind of showed that they'd forgotten that.  The story ended in Return of the Jedi and then it just kind of forgot to stop... requiring all kinds of convoluted nonsense to justify why they didn't stop.

[Bolt]

Representation/diversity... Chewbacca must be pissed.

[renegadeleader1]

11 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

While I would like to know the source on this, and whether it was from Lucas himself or the EU, my understanding was that Breha also died when she was very young, so if her father remarried, she would have had a second adoptive mother, and remembered Breha as her real mother, because she was never told otherwise.  My instinct is that this was an EU detail.

Your instinct would be wrong. Both in the EU and "Canon" Breha died when Alderaan blew up. Leia knowing she had been adopted has never really been an issue because her memory is very vague and in her own words she just remembers "images" and "feelings", and that she was beautiful, kind, but very sad. Never enough detail to compromise her own safety or identity.

 

It wasn't until Obi Wan basically spelled it out to him as a ghost in RoTJ that Luke was able to piece it together and compromise her when he let his guard slip confronting Vader.

[Dynaman]

To be fair to Luke, she wasn't his sister till sometime in the writing stage for Empire...

Edited March 4, 2020 by Dynaman

[Chronocidal]

11 hours ago, renegadeleader1 said:

Your instinct would be wrong. Both in the EU and "Canon" Breha died when Alderaan blew up. Leia knowing she had been adopted has never really been an issue because her memory is very vague and in her own words she just remembers "images" and "feelings", and that she was beautiful, kind, but very sad. Never enough detail to compromise her own safety or identity.

Looking up the EU notes on Leia's mother, it looks like maybe the material didn't all agree, so that may be the source of my confusion.  I'd thought there was material in some of the X-Wing books about Winter (her adopted sister) that discussed how they'd grown close after their mother died, but I guess that gives me one more reason to re-read that series.  

As far as her knowing whether or not she was adopted though, I'm not talking about what she remembered so much as just considering how she would have reacted to the knowledge, and whether she would have attempted to dig up the truth.  It's entirely possible she knew, and was just told her parents died at the end of the Clone Wars.

The bigger issue I have is that they ditched a perfectly viable and entirely believable explanation, for one that makes no sense.  But I guess that's become the status quo for the franchise now.  

Edited March 4, 2020 by Chronocidal

[renegadeleader1]

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Looking up the EU notes on Leia's mother, it looks like maybe the material didn't all agree, so that may be the source of my confusion.  I'd thought there was material in some of the X-Wing books about Winter (her adopted sister) that discussed how they'd grown close after their mother died, but I guess that gives me one more reason to re-read that series.  

As far as her knowing whether or not she was adopted though, I'm not talking about what she remembered so much as just considering how she would have reacted to the knowledge, and whether she would have attempted to dig up the truth.  It's entirely possible she knew, and was just told her parents died at the end of the Clone Wars.

The bigger issue I have is that they ditched a perfectly viable and entirely believable explanation, for one that makes no sense.  But I guess that's become the status quo for the franchise now.  

Winter isn't an Organa by birth. She was brought into the household after her mother died when she was one year old. What you're thinking of in regard to Winter in the X-wing novels is her growing close to Leia because they were both adopted and had their original mothers die very young. That gave them a common bond.

[Mog]

The hardest task for these writers and creators can be summed up as such:  being respectful while not being a rehash or a worse replacement.

No matter how much they try to deny it, their work is gonna be compared to/scrutinized against all the already existing films, the Filoni animated stuff, the Gennedy T. stuff, the EU, and all the other media and video games that came before.

And if it replaces anything from these various sources, it needs to be “better” than what came before.
 

Throw in the usual continuity and consistency issues with such a long-lived franchise, and you can see the huge challenge they face.

[Seto Kaiba]

15 minutes ago, Mog said:

The hardest task for these writers and creators can be summed up as such:  being respectful while not being a rehash or a worse replacement.

"We're doomed." - C-3PO

 

15 minutes ago, Mog said:

No matter how much they try to deny it, their work is gonna be compared to/scrutinized against all the already existing films, the Filoni animated stuff, the Gennedy T. stuff, the EU, and all the other media and video games that came before.

Sounds like the best they came hope for is that The Rise of Skywalker will have lowered their audience's standards significantly.

 

15 minutes ago, Mog said:

And if it replaces anything from these various sources, it needs to be “better” than what came before.

*looks at the high regard fans seem to hold Knights of the Old Republic in*

... yup, they're doomed.

 

[Bolt]

I'm hoping ,if i watch enough 420 Republic, I'll at least get the munchies...

[tekering]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Sounds like the best they came hope for is that The Rise of Skywalker will have lowered their audience's standards significantly.

For many of us, that's certainly the case...

...even more so than The Last Jedi had lowered our standards...

...after The Force Awakens had already lowered our standards.

Honestly, if it weren't for The Mandalorian, my expectations would be six feet under at this point.  

Yet Rise of Skywalker has managed to splinter the fanbase even further, since a significant number of fans really enjoyed it.  Here in Japan (where I'm active with the Rebel Legion, the Jedi Order, and the 501st Japanese Garrison), the hardcore fans loved the film.  The Last Jedi had its distractors, but Rise of Skywalker hasn't garnered a single criticism here.  

Having expressed similar disappointment with Godzilla: King of the Monsters, my friends are starting to see me as a cranky old man who's impossible to please.  

[Thom]

If TLJ had foreshadowed (at all!) the re-rise of Palpy, then it all would have been more enjoyable as a whole. And I say that being someone who did enjoy TFA and TRoS.

Poke as many holes as you want, they were fun!

[Mog]

Seriously, Rian Johnson should have had Luke drop hints about why he doesn’t want to train Rey, keep mentioning how his dad fell to the dark side, and then throw the “subverting expectations” twist by having Luke say he ISN’T Rey’s father.

[Chronocidal]

11 hours ago, Mog said:

Seriously, Rian Johnson should have had Luke drop hints about why he doesn’t want to train Rey, keep mentioning how his dad fell to the dark side, and then throw the “subverting expectations” twist by having Luke say he ISN’T Rey’s father.

That would have required there to be an actual overall story plan from the beginning, though, which was apparently far too foreign a concept to Johnson.  Apparently some new interview is circulating stating the way he approaches storytelling, and it basically can be summarized as, "I don't care what has been established before, I'm going to tell whatever story I want."

I think the best thing about TRoS was watching Rian's disasterpiece repeatedly torpedoed as JJ retconned it on a point-by-point basis.  

[Bolt]

55 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I think the best thing about TRoS was watching Rian's disasterpiece repeatedly torpedoed as JJ retconned it on a point-by-point basis.  

What we never saw on the back side of that white board was " never again"

[Dynaman]

4 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

That would have required there to be an actual overall story plan from the beginning, though,  

Quoted for truth.  Lucas got away with it in the original Trilogy since nobody knew it would become a trilogy.  When Disney KNEW they were commissioning a trilogy somebody should have plotted out the major bits of the entire thing before a single frame of film was shot.   

[Thom]

7 hours ago, Dynaman said:

Quoted for truth.  Lucas got away with it in the original Trilogy since nobody knew it would become a trilogy.  When Disney KNEW they were commissioning a trilogy somebody should have plotted out the major bits of the entire thing before a single frame of film was shot.   

Another quote for truth!

[levzloi]

I know that some people are upset that the Star Wars fans on here aren't waiting patiently to find out if it will be good or not.  I think they could pull off a good product if they have proper direction, vision, and most of all sound writing and good stories.  Unfortunately, I think what we're seeing with the white board is writing/design by committee.  What we're most likely to end up with is inoffensive, unimaginative, with plenty of virtue signaling.  Disney's wildest dream is to turn Star Wars into the Marvel franchise pumping out fun entertaining and ultimately forgettable movies on a quarterly basis.  That Star Wars will not even closely resemble the original trilogy in tone, direction, and quality.  But it will make money hand over fist.

[ErikElvis]

10 hours ago, levzloi said:

I know that some people are upset that the Star Wars fans on here aren't waiting patiently to find out if it will be good or not.  I think they could pull off a good product if they have proper direction, vision, and most of all sound writing and good stories.  Unfortunately, I think what we're seeing with the white board is writing/design by committee.  What we're most likely to end up with is inoffensive, unimaginative, with plenty of virtue signaling.  Disney's wildest dream is to turn Star Wars into the Marvel franchise pumping out fun entertaining and ultimately forgettable movies on a quarterly basis.  That Star Wars will not even closely resemble the original trilogy in tone, direction, and quality.  But it will make money hand over fist.

Yup as a die hard OT fan this makes me sad. Even though the prequels had their problems they felt like Star Wars movies. These new ones.  Not so much. 

[Chronocidal]

13 hours ago, levzloi said:

Disney's wildest dream is to turn Star Wars into the Marvel franchise pumping out fun entertaining and ultimately forgettable movies on a quarterly basis.

Honestly, I would take this in an instant over the current state of things. "Fun, entertaining, and ultimately forgettable" is a huge step up from watching two directors in a pissing match over how much of the fanbase they can drive away.

Seriously speaking though, there's a large portion of the MCU that I rewatch on a regular basis, because they're just good movies.  I've watched the OT more times than I can possibly count, and even the prequels I rewatch on a semi-regular basis.  These new movies?  I haven't touched since leaving the theater.  

Having a competent lead producer to keep tabs on the entire franchise is something Star Wars needs desperately right now.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Chronocidal

[Bolt]

I'm just going back to playing Jedi Academy and forgetting the rest

[azrael]

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

I'm just going back to playing Jedi Academy and forgetting the rest

At least Fallen Order was a good game. 

[tekering]

6 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

I've watched the OT more times than I can possibly count, and even the prequels I rewatch on a semi-regular basis.  These new movies?  I haven't touched since leaving the theater.  

I'm surprised how well The Force Awakens holds up on repeated viewings -- much better than Attack of the Clones, for instance -- but The Last Jedi quickly became unwatchable.  I have no intention of revisiting The Rise of Skywalker, as I can't imagine it being any more palatable the second time...  

But yeah, we've still got the OT, the games, The Mandalorian, and new Clone Wars episodes to look forward to, so let's just forget the sequel trilogy and move on.

[Mog]

Sequel trilogy?  What are you talking about?

Luke married a hot Force-wielding redhead, re-established the Jedi Order, and had a kid. 

[Bolt]

25 minutes ago, Mog said:

Sequel trilogy?  What are you talking about?

Luke married a hot Force-wielding redhead, re-established the Jedi Order, and had a kid. 

Yup

[azrael]

15 hours ago, Mog said:

Sequel trilogy?  What are you talking about?

Luke married a hot Force-wielding redhead, re-established the Jedi Order, and had a kid. 

+1

[Thom]

18 hours ago, Mog said:

Sequel trilogy?  What are you talking about?

Luke married a hot Force-wielding redhead, re-established the Jedi Order, and had a kid. 

Spoiler

Then she was murdered by Ben Solo!

 

[Mog]

31 minutes ago, Thom said:

  Hide contents

Then she was murdered by Ben Solo!

 

Spoiler

 

But she lived a good and memorable life.

Same with EU Luke.

And it's certainly better than having a moment of weakness, driving your nephew to the dark side, taking your proverbial ball and running away, and then dying after Force projecting yourself over a galaxy or so away.

Plus, I'd like to believe that Luke is a little more resilient and still willing to stick his neck out whenever his friends and loved ones are in danger.

 

 

[Dynaman]

EU Luke?  Who is this phantom of which you speak?

[kalvasflam]

21 hours ago, tekering said:

I'm surprised how well The Force Awakens holds up on repeated viewings -- much better than Attack of the Clones, for instance -- but The Last Jedi quickly became unwatchable.  I have no intention of revisiting The Rise of Skywalker, as I can't imagine it being any more palatable the second time...  

But yeah, we've still got the OT, the games, The Mandalorian, and new Clone Wars episodes to look forward to, so let's just forget the sequel trilogy and move on.

Of the new movies, I would say Rogue One was rewatchable, TFA is kind of second....  and there is no third.

[sketchley]

2 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

Of the new movies, I would say Rogue One was rewatchable, TFA is kind of second....  and there is no third.

I humbly disagree.  Ron Howard fundamentally understood what Star Wars is (a 2 hour escape from the summer heat).  So, my rewatchable list is:

• 1. Rogue One
• 2. Solo
• 3. TFA (but only IF I remind myself to turn it off when Solo shows up.  After that, the physics problems are maddening, and it gradually becomes a boring rehash)

As for TLJ and beyond...?  Well, I think Rian Johnson can produce intriguing and thought provoking films.  However, his work just doesn't have the right tone* for Star Wars.  And JJA?  We're back to the physics and rehash problems (except for the middle part, when the "new" characters are allowed to go on an adventure of their own, without being concerned with either walking back the changes in TLJ or concluding the trilogy).

 

* By this, I mean a fun, momentary diversion from reality.  "Tone" has become a rather loaded term these past few years...

[Mog]

2 hours ago, Dynaman said:

EU Luke?  Who is this phantom of which you speak?

Now, that's a name I've not heard in a long time.

Before the dark times... before the M*pire.

* M = Mouse

[kalvasflam]

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

I humbly disagree.  Ron Howard fundamentally understood what Star Wars is (a 2 hour escape from the summer heat).  So, my rewatchable list is:

• 1. Rogue One
• 2. Solo
• 3. TFA (but only IF I remind myself to turn it off when Solo shows up.  After that, the physics problems are maddening, and it gradually becomes a boring rehash)

As for TLJ and beyond...?  Well, I think Rian Johnson can produce intriguing and thought provoking films.  However, his work just doesn't have the right tone* for Star Wars.  And JJA?  We're back to the physics and rehash problems (except for the middle part, when the "new" characters are allowed to go on an adventure of their own, without being concerned with either walking back the changes in TLJ or concluding the trilogy).

 

* By this, I mean a fun, momentary diversion from reality.  "Tone" has become a rather loaded term these past few years...

We agree on #1, that's good enough for me.   You can't win them all.

 

[Dynaman]

Mog - Bravo!