Post Skywalker Saga Star Wars Movies and Projects

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Dynaman said:

I have no idea what you are even talking about.  I've always only considered movies (and the animated shows now) cannon in any way.  The rest of it comes and goes.

As I understand it, Star Wars had a fairly complicated official canon policy that included the Expanded Universe materials before the sale of LucasFilm to Disney and Disney's subsequent decision to throw the entire Expanded Universe in the trash and start over.  It's the fact that so much effort was spent making the Expanded Universe coherent and so on that made folks so mad when the Disney crew told them it was going away permanently.

 

 

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

(and it's been mentioned that certain higher ups were theoretically completely ignorant of its existence in the first place).

... now this strikes me as complete BS.  What did they think people were sending them checks for?  A show of goodwill?  They were collecting a fairy substantial amount of royalties from things like comic books, novels, and so on and there was a coordinated team of writers working on all of that nonsense.  They literally had at least one person whose full-time job it was to make sure all of that stuff was consistent and police the writers of new content.  He had some ridiculous title.  Keeper of the holo-something?

 

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Star Trek and Star Wars have always been what I'd call the "twins" of science fiction mega-franchises.  They've wound up in exactly the same place, for exactly the same reason: leadership driving both franchises face-first into a brick wall in the name of silencing the whiny two-year-old in the corner who's having a conniption fit over all the other kids enjoying their toys.  And in their ignorance, the powers that be thought taking all the toys away from the other kids and giving them to the whiny child would fix it... No, the child never had any interest in the toys in the first place.  They just didn't want the other kids enjoying them either.

No, Star Trek flew into a brick wall because they put a talentless hack in charge and all he could think to do was to make Star Trek more like Star Wars... locking the franchise into a long-term contract with his like-minded partner.

Star Wars flew into a brick wall because it was such a money-spinner that its new risk-averse owners refused to do anything more than recycle old ideas on the assumption that if the fans liked it once they'd love it twice... and once that didn't work, a committee deadlock on part 3 led to a small legion of cooks spoiling the broth as energetically as possible.

[pengbuzz]

"Risk adverse"= "We're so scared of failing that we remove all possibility of success and fail by default".

[Dynaman]

Star Trek failed because the fans locked it into a box that they refused to open.  The only things that get their blessing are indie projects which I equate to my software work for the government - often programs are developed on the side by controllers to make their life easier and the feedback is all positive, once the program is made official and supported (by the same guy) it starts getting flack.

[Bolt]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

No, Star Trek flew into a brick wall because they put a talentless hack in charge and all he could think to do was to make Star Trek more like Star Wars...

Absolutely correct. I watched the extra features and commentary one night out of boredom. They literally said and showed how they tried to make it more like SW..

I was surprised.

As far as the herkey jerkey SW news, theories and postulating.. just gives us more SW so we can move on. At some point it (hopefully) won't be a turd falling into my drink..

[kajnrig]

Not sure what the discussion is about right now, just wanted to pop in with some thoughts, which mirror what some others have said here I think. I was talking with a coworker about a movie soundtrack I was listening to at the time (Pacific Rim, still rocks), and the conversation moved to Star Wars. I noted that, whatever one thinks of the OT and PT, one of their respective strengths was strong aesthetic inspiration. For the OT it was obviously, among other things, World War 2 imagery. Particularly Nazi Germany in the Empire's uniforms and certain the framing of stuff like the victory celebration in Ep4, and so on. And I'm less clear on the specifics of the PT, but it's all very clean and opulent... haute couture, maybe. High fashion. Naboo starfighters to the Senate chamber to the frickin' Coruscant underbelly, everything SEEMS sanitized, even when it's obviously not. A lot of it is because of the generous use of CGI, of course, but still. Strong inspiration that leaves a strong impression in your mind.

The music is the same, some of John Williams' best stuff. Strong themes, strong leitmotifs in all six movies, it's music that sticks with you.

With the ST, I'm wondering about its inspirations, which seem to be just... Star Wars. It's Star Wars inspired by Star Wars. The ship designs aren't particularly memorable because they don't really have an identity of their own. The worlds are slight variants of preexisting ones. I suppose it shouldn't have taken me this long to realize that the ST overall just draws inspiration from its predecessors, because the very first movie traded almost entirely on nostalgia.

Again, and I'm just beating my own dead horse at this point, but part of what makes TLJ stick out more in my mind than the other two is it has a stronger aesthetic. On reflection, I remember the color red. The red in TLJ often stands in stark contrast to everything else. It's what makes the throne room fight so good to me, even if the fight itself apparently has issues. That stark red background. The red that gets thrown about on Crait(?) in the finale. It was the primary color on the posters, and even the Star Wars logo was done in red.

Getting back to the ships, I also enjoyed the heavy bombers a lot. Say what you will about their strategic purpose, they really stick out to me amongst a sea of interchangeable planes and carriers and etc. etc. etc. They take the same historical inspiration as the OT's ships do, but simply from someplace the OT never touched, the heavy bombers of yore, and their munitions the "dumb bombs" also of said yore.

Blah. Anyway. Long post was supposed to be short, sorry. PT and OT have inspired, memorable imagery and music, ST is Star Wars inspired by Star Wars.

[Chronocidal]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... now this strikes me as complete BS.  What did they think people were sending them checks for?  A show of goodwill?  They were collecting a fairy substantial amount of royalties from things like comic books, novels, and so on and there was a coordinated team of writers working on all of that nonsense.  They literally had at least one person whose full-time job it was to make sure all of that stuff was consistent and police the writers of new content.  He had some ridiculous title.  Keeper of the holo-something?

It does ring as complete BS, but it doesn't mean KK wasn't quoted as saying, quite literally:

Quote

"Every one of those movies is a particularly hard nut to crack.  There's no source material.  We don't have comic books.  We don't have 800-page novels.  We don't have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be."

Probably hundreds, if not thousands of videos have reamed her up and down for saying this.  Not having "canon" material?  Sure.  But that's not what she said.

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

No, Star Trek flew into a brick wall because they put a talentless hack in charge and all he could think to do was to make Star Trek more like Star Wars... locking the franchise into a long-term contract with his like-minded partner.

Star Wars flew into a brick wall because it was such a money-spinner that its new risk-averse owners refused to do anything more than recycle old ideas on the assumption that if the fans liked it once they'd love it twice... and once that didn't work, a committee deadlock on part 3 led to a small legion of cooks spoiling the broth as energetically as possible.

Neither of those are wrong, but I don't blame JJ for ruining Star Trek anymore than I do for him ruining Star Wars.. that is to say, yeah, he's a terrible writer, but I can't blame him for where the franchises were driven.  He made head-bangingly stupid movies, but he didn't make TLJ, or Discovery/Picard.

Absent those disasters, I think both franchises could have recovered without nuking them from orbit and starting over, but here we are.  

The bottom line is that both franchises made terrible decisions, and fell prey to the "wider audience" fallacy.  They sacrificed the fans they had for the fans they wanted.  End of the day, the fans they wanted didn't give two shakes, and weren't going to spend the money the original fans would have.  They just wanted to convert fantastically successful platforms to promote their own ideas.

After all.. it's a whole lot easier to get people's attention from an established speaking platform than it is to build your own.

[mikeszekely]

53 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

He made head-bangingly stupid movies, but he didn't make TLJ, or Discovery/Picard.

I didn't see Picard yet, but I thought Discovery was flawed but good.  Started off kind of shaky in the first season, but it found its voice and the second season was great.  And I don't think the "Discovery is a failure" narrative is particularly true, either.  Analytics suggest that it did pretty well, with it being the most in-demand streaming show during the period of April 6th and May 5th in 2019 and the number 2 sci-fi series overall.  And it was picked up for a third season.  I'm not saying that there aren't legit criticisms to be made about it, especially the first season, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as some crowds are suggesting.

[tekering]

4 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

I thought Discovery was flawed but good.

I enjoyed much of Discovery, at least as its own "alternate universe" thing.  It's unacceptable as canon Star Trek, but it fits with the wanna-be Star Wars aesthetic of the Kelvin timeline films.  Picard, on the other hand, has too much of the legitimate Star Trek cast to pretend it's anything other than a nonsensical fanfic written and directed by tone-deaf hacks.

Which is to say, Discovery is as palatable as The Force Awakens... and Picard is as excretable as The Rise of Skywalker.  

[Chronocidal]

Quote

Which is to say, Discovery is as palatable as The Force Awakens... and Picard is as excretable as The Rise of Skywalker.  

That actually sounds like a pretty fair summary.

I will admit, I have not watched either, because I don't feel like signing up for another streaming service to watch something they seem too afraid to put on broadcast television.  I also won't try to say the word of mouth and reviews I've heard aren't incredibly biased against both series, for various reasons.

Just from a plot synopsis standpoint though, neither series makes a flaming lick of sense to me, especially Picard.  If they want to make an alternate universe, fine.. but they need to stop writing such terrible and/or stupid characters.

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Chronocidal

[JB0]

8 hours ago, Mog said:

The problem with the sequel trilogy is the same issue with most of JJ Abrams’ stuff:  scratch below the surface, and there‘s nothing else there.  No depth of character, nothing more to the story but moving plot forward.

They also had no plan for sequels. They wrote ONE film, with little more guidance than "include some plot hooks we can latch into when we start writing the sequel next year."
And no one across the hall in the Marvel Studios division ever leaned out the door and shouted "Hey, writing three movies at the same time makes it a lot easier to generate a coherent narrative."

 

 

  

5 hours ago, Bolt said:

Absolutely correct. I watched the extra features and commentary one night out of boredom. They literally said and showed how they tried to make it more like SW..

I was surprised.

I'm not. My overriding thought coming out of the theater was "That felt more like Star Wars than Star Trek ."

Knowing that they were trying to do exactly that leaves me thoroughly unsurprised.

Edited July 2, 2020 by JB0

[sketchley]

11 hours ago, kajnrig said:

... I noted that, whatever one thinks of the OT and PT, one of their respective strengths was strong aesthetic inspiration. For the OT it was obviously, among other things, World War 2 imagery. ...

Very good points.  There's another visual design aesthetic going on in the OT and PT.  In short, the OT has an industrial, mass produced, sharp angels thing.  As you've touched on the visual design aesthetic for the PT, I'll mention the imagery: art deco, 1920's design.

George Lucas is also a car man.  So, there's that influence going on, too (if the OT is the boxy 70's and 80's cars, then the PT is referencing the sleeker and rounder shaps of the 50's and 60's cars).

The visual aesthetic is also going on in "Solo".  In "The Art of Solo" they mention how Eps.IV has a 70's look and feel, so they tried to give Solo a 60's look and feel.

 

Quote

 

With the ST, I'm wondering about its inspirations, which seem to be just... Star Wars. It's Star Wars inspired by Star Wars...

 

I think that hits the nail on the head.  The only thing I can add is that the majority of the neat new (old) stuff was introduced in Eps VII.  Nothing really stands out in VIII or IX...

[Chewie]

17 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

As I understand it, Star Wars had a fairly complicated official canon policy that included the Expanded Universe materials before the sale of LucasFilm to Disney and Disney's subsequent decision to throw the entire Expanded Universe in the trash and start over.  It's the fact that so much effort was spent making the Expanded Universe coherent and so on that made folks so mad when the Disney crew told them it was going away permanently.

It did. Lucas and Lucasfilm outlined a ton of rules for what the stories could and could not do. Fast forward to The New Jedi Order undertaking and you get Lucas, Lucasfilm and publishers all involved again in this huge conversation about what can and can't happen. 

A dozen authors simultaneously writing 19 books from different views spanning years in the universe, including the same cast in all of them. They killed Chewbacca and to a lesser extent, they killed a ton of characters that had been written around for decades. They brought a new way of looking at the Force, they showed us how stupidly bad ass Luke Skywalker was and gave us Leia as a Jedi. It was huge. It was awesome. 

Then we get GL saying in one of his interviews he never gave a damn and it was all(the EU) basically an alternate universe. The man who contradicts himself more in single interviews and videos more than most people do in their entire lives, and on this subject? Mr. "I wrote a trilogy, no wait I wrote 6 movies, no wait I wrote 9 movies, no wait again, Disney I wrote you a new trilogy!" Suddenly everyone wants to take his word as law? Even some of the same people who wanted to stake him up because of the prequels? Yeah, K.

Along comes Disney, and they throw the baby out with the bathwater.

If nothing else, nearly 40 years of technology writing was the biggest loss in my opinion:

Suddenly everything about lightsabers is bland and boring.

They give capital ship a gas tank. 

TIEs and X-Wings are manufactured by the same company. 

They're building Star Destroyers......on the ground? 

 

The list goes on and on. 

Not all of the writing was great, but damn if there weren't a ton of great characters, places and events during that time. Not to mention expanding on the Force in some crazy ways.

The dismissive way people treat the EU/Legends is kind of ridiculous. 

Kind of like how so many talk trash on (or downright hate?) Boba Fett yet at the same time don't accept he's the sole reason y'all got Jango and the Mandalorians expanded upon. 

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Chewie

[Dobber]

Thank You Chewie. I agree. 
 

Not saying he is or isn’t a great thing for new movies or stories  here....just as I said a few months ago I haven’t forgot how many if not most felt back in 2012 when we heard he was selling. People were ecstatic! While we praised him for his creation we also hated what HE was or wasn’t doing with it, or how he seemed to have contempt for it. Fast forward to now, after Disney screwed it up even worse, people are saying poor George why can’t we have HIS vision. I’m mean really?? People jump on and off of bandwagons so freaking quickly.  
As I said not saying he is or isn’t a good thing just I haven’t forgotten how things were and how we all cheered at his stepping down. 
 

Chris

Edited July 2, 2020 by Dobber

[Mog]

It’s been awhile, but I don’t think I ever knocked Lucas for his design work and “big picture”/overall story arc ideas.

He does know how to tweak ship or creature designs to make them more visually interesting.

And the Prequels’ main story arcs are pretty good (the flaws in Anakin, in the Jedi, and in the Republic all lead to their downfalls).

His fatal flaws are in his dialogue and his directing.  He’s not exactly known as an actors’ director.  And some of the choices or scenes he chooses to emphasize are kinda suspect.

Add in the questionable repeated tinkering with the OT (adding the unnecessary “Nooooo!” to ROTJ’s most powerful scene).  And I think everyone was ready for a new spin on Star Wars without Lucas’ worst tendencies.

We knew the “highs” we would get with Lucas at the helm, but we were getting tired of the recurring “lows.”

[mikeszekely]

44 minutes ago, Mog said:

It’s been awhile, but I don’t think I ever knocked Lucas for his design work and “big picture”/overall story arc ideas.

He does know how to tweak ship or creature designs to make them more visually interesting.

And the Prequels’ main story arcs are pretty good (the flaws in Anakin, in the Jedi, and in the Republic all lead to their downfalls).

His fatal flaws are in his dialogue and his directing.  He’s not exactly known as an actors’ director.  And some of the choices or scenes he chooses to emphasize are kinda suspect.

Add in the questionable repeated tinkering with the OT (adding the unnecessary “Nooooo!” to ROTJ’s most powerful scene).  And I think everyone was ready for a new spin on Star Wars without Lucas’ worst tendencies.

We knew the “highs” we would get with Lucas at the helm, but we were getting tired of the recurring “lows.”

Yep.  For all the prequel trilogy's flaws if there was one thing Lucas did well it was world-building.  Lucas did take us to some familiar places, like Tatooine, but he also introduced new worlds and new people with distinct styles and customs.  The sequel trilogy took us to planets with new names that looked a lot like places we'd already seen and armed everyone with the same X-Wings, Tie Fighters, Star Destroyers, and Mon Cal cruisers we'd been familiar with for 40 years.

[Seto Kaiba]

16 hours ago, kajnrig said:

With the ST, I'm wondering about its inspirations, which seem to be just... Star Wars. It's Star Wars inspired by Star Wars. The ship designs aren't particularly memorable because they don't really have an identity of their own. The worlds are slight variants of preexisting ones. I suppose it shouldn't have taken me this long to realize that the ST overall just draws inspiration from its predecessors, because the very first movie traded almost entirely on nostalgia.

Yup... that's basically what we've been saying about it.  Disney bought LucasFilm for Star Wars, and the corporate committee running the show took the safest possible approach with their shiny new money printer and just remade A New Hope with a ton of cosmetic upgrades and a vastly less likeable cast meant to have the broadest possible appeal.  The problem, of course, is that if you try to please EVERYONE as the Disney corporate leadership did, you'll end up spreading yourself too thin and pleasing nobody.

The whole sequel trilogy is the embodiment of Disney's paralyzing fear of losing a few bucks because someone got offended.

 

 

15 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

It does ring as complete BS, but it doesn't mean KK wasn't quoted as saying, quite literally:

Now, if you threw a couple adjectives in there about the quality of the comics, the 800 page novels, and what have you, I'd find myself in complete agreement.

The parts of the Star Wars Expanded Universe I've been exposed to are almost uniformly badly-written garbage that makes Solo: a Star Wars Story look like Oscar material.  Far and away the best of it was the Thrawn trilogy and even a fair amount of that was pretty weak.

 

15 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

He made head-bangingly stupid movies, but he didn't make TLJ, or Discovery/Picard.

No, but he was the one who set up the people who did... he put Bad Robot and Secret Hideout in control of Star Trek, and left Star Wars to Rian Johnson's tender mercies.

 

 

1 hour ago, Chewie said:

If nothing else, nearly 40 years of technology writing was the biggest loss in my opinion:

Suddenly everything about lightsabers is bland and boring.

... when were they not?  They're just laser swords.  I can recall at least one instance in the EU where they were literally building the damn things on assembly lines.

 

1 hour ago, Chewie said:

They give capital ship a gas tank. 

... why wouldn't they have fuel tanks?  They very clearly have engines that use reaction mass for propulsion, and that reaction mass has to come from somewhere.  Likewise, they have to be getting power to run all their onboard systems from somewhere.

 

1 hour ago, Chewie said:

TIEs and X-Wings are manufactured by the same company. 

As far as I can tell, that's not the case... The Last Jedi does feature arms dealer intermediaries who sell to both sides, something that happens distressingly often in the real world.

 

1 hour ago, Chewie said:

They're building Star Destroyers......on the ground? 

Why not?  I mean, this is a society that has mastered the casual use of gravity manipulation.  It seems to me like it'd be more convenient to build a fleet in secret if you built it on a planet's surface.  You wouldn't need to take all kinds of precautions to protect workers in a zero-g vacuum environment and you wouldn't have to ship materials up to orbit from a planetside refinery or factory.

 

1 hour ago, Chewie said:

Kind of like how so many talk trash on (or downright hate?) Boba Fett yet at the same time don't accept he's the sole reason y'all got Jango and the Mandalorians expanded upon. 

They're all massively oversold, TBH.

Jango Fett wasn't any better than Boba Fett... they're both the alleged badass but can't back it up.  They have a very action figure-friendly costume, but apart from being fairly snappy dressers they're pretty lame.  Jango Fett subcontracts out of his actual day job as a bounty hunter, spends most of his screen time running away from Obi-Wan, and in his only actual stand-up fight (in Attack of the Clones) he's nothing more than a nuisance to his opponent and lasts a mere six seconds before being beheaded without once harming his opponent.  Boba Fett tailgates the Millennium Falcon, whines some complaints at Darth Vader, and in his first and only fight he tries to tie up the space wizard with the laser sword, fails, and is unintentionally killed when a blind man accidentally knocks him into the waiting mouth of a space anus monster in the desert.

They're literally less effective than the Stormtroopers, and the Stormtroopers are memetically MADE OF FAIL.

[JB0]

15 hours ago, Dobber said:

Thank You Chewie. I agree. 
 

Not saying he is or isn’t a great thing for new movies or stories  here....just as I said a few months ago I haven’t forgot how many if not most felt back in 2012 when we heard he was selling. People were ecstatic! While we praised him for his creation we also hated what HE was or wasn’t doing with it, or how he seemed to have contempt for it. Fast forward to now, after Disney screwed it up even worse, people are saying poor George why can’t we have HIS vision. I’m mean really?? People jump on and off of bandwagons so freaking quickly.  
As I said not saying he is or isn’t a good thing just I haven’t forgotten how things were and how we all cheered at his stepping down. 
 

Chris

As I've said before, I didn't really want more George Lucas movies either. But I think the prequel trilogy was better than the sequel trilogy because, as bad as it was, it was the movies someone actually wanted to make. There was a passion there. A gravely misguided passion, but passion nonetheless.

The Disney films are the movies that some accountants armed with focus group studies calculated would check all the boxes for a maximal return on investment. The have no heart, no soul. They aren't the movies ANYONE wanted to make.

[Mog]

Hey!  Not all us accountants are soulless bastards that know the cost of everything but the value of nothing. 

Blame the lawyers;  they screw everything up.   

“No, no, no, don’t use R2-D2 too much; per the contract, we have to pay a royalty to Lucas for every minute he’s on-screen.”

“If you change the dish on the Falcon, we can claim it as our own Disney-developed design.  It’ll keep our royalty costs down, and we keep the profits from any toys or models inspired by the new design.”

[tekering]

8 minutes ago, Mog said:

“If you change the dish on the Falcon, we can claim it as our own Disney-developed design.  It’ll keep our royalty costs down, and we keep the profits from any toys or models inspired by the new design.”

Same reason we got the T70 X-Wings, and the First Order TIE fighters, and Threepio's red arm...  Use all those designs the fans remember and love, just change them enough to piss those fans off.  

[Dynaman]

A changed dish and a red arm would never qualify as breaking prior art and Disney knows that.

[myk]

3 hours ago, JB0 said:

As I've said before, I didn't really want more George Lucas movies either. But I think the prequel trilogy was better than the sequel trilogy because, as bad as it was, it was the movies someone actually wanted to make. There was a passion there. A gravely misguided passion, but passion nonetheless.

The Disney films are the movies that some accountants armed with focus group studies calculated would check all the boxes for a maximal return on investment. The have no heart, no soul. They aren't the movies ANYONE wanted to make.

There is no better assessment of the prequel and sequel trilogies than this post right here...

[JB0]

2 hours ago, Mog said:

Hey!  Not all us accountants are soulless bastards that know the cost of everything but the value of nothing. 

Present company excepted, of course.

 

 

[Dobber]

2 hours ago, tekering said:

Same reason we got the T70 X-Wings, and the First Order TIE fighters, and Threepio's red arm...  Use all those designs the fans remember and love, just change them enough to piss those fans off.  

Hey, I actually really like the T-70 X-wings and it makes sense that a successful fighter design would continue on in new variants. Happens in real life and in other franchises too.

Chris

 

[Kanedas Bike]

A lot of good points being made recently, and I'll reiterate my own and other's thoughts that THE primary problem the Sequel Trilogy has is that there wasn't a consistent narrative or plan from movie to movie. Like someone said, Marvel was literally right across the hall, plus all of the source material at the filmmaker's disposal and they just f'ed it up.

I actually liked the characters, but felt like their story lines were wasted. Finn, Poe, Hux (as comedy relief) were all prime examples of this.

As far as the fan-rage/fan-fiction click bait nonsense about any current plans to erase the ST, not going to happen. 30 years from now, who knows, but I wouldn't bet .01 on it happening. And honestly it shouldn't. Disney just needs to take the L for the disconnected plot and for splitting the fandom and learn from it for the next go-round of big live action movies. The shows are doing fine, just tighten the ship for the movies and all will be right in the world.

It's nice that the Prequel Trilogy is going through some sort of revival or appreciation for what people think Lucas's intentions were, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if we see some of the same thing at some point for the ST.

-b.

[Chronocidal]

10 hours ago, Dobber said:

Hey, I actually really like the T-70 X-wings and it makes sense that a successful fighter design would continue on in new variants. Happens in real life and in other franchises too.

Chris

 

My only problem with the T-70 design is the pointless asymmetry.  It serves no purpose mechanically, or aerodynamically/astrodynamically, and looks aesthetically off-putting due to the loss of what I consider some of the most satisfying design symmetry in the entire franchise.  It also makes two of the "wings" look like sticks, and I would have preferred they ditch the X pattern entirely, rather than do something that looks like that. 

I've debated time and again whether to pick up a bunch of the Bandai kits to kitbash into a version that keeps the original dual-wing design, using the existing planform with two full wings on each side.  That's what the McQuarrie design was, after all... they just couldn't bear to leave his design intact.

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 12:38 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

No, but he was the one who set up the people who did... he put Bad Robot and Secret Hideout in control of Star Trek, and left Star Wars to Rian Johnson's tender mercies.

I really don't want to blame JJ for Rian Johnson or Bad Robot.. it's not unwarranted, but I also do not want to water down the level of blame that needs to be leveled directly at the primary instigators.

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 10:09 AM, Chewie said:

They're building Star Destroyers......on the ground? 

 

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 12:38 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Why not?  I mean, this is a society that has mastered the casual use of gravity manipulation.  It seems to me like it'd be more convenient to build a fleet in secret if you built it on a planet's surface.  You wouldn't need to take all kinds of precautions to protect workers in a zero-g vacuum environment and you wouldn't have to ship materials up to orbit from a planetside refinery or factory.

Don't forget how much worse than that it actually was.  They didn't build them on the ground, they built them underground, and then proceeded to plow them through said ground during launch.  Also, don't forget that shields don't work in atmosphere (in only this particular instance in the entire franchise, and even within this single movie), so their hulls took the full brunt of being shoved through the crust of the planet.

Note, I'm assuming the planet was not made of ice, because neither Kylo nor Rey seemed at all phased walking around on the surface.

[JB0]

40 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Don't forget how much worse than that it actually was.  They didn't build them on the ground, they built them underground, and then proceeded to plow them through said ground during launch

They copied the X-Wing books, and did it badly.

[Seto Kaiba]

20 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Don't forget how much worse than that it actually was.  They didn't build them on the ground, they built them underground, and then proceeded to plow them through said ground during launch.  Also, don't forget that shields don't work in atmosphere (in only this particular instance in the entire franchise, and even within this single movie), so their hulls took the full brunt of being shoved through the crust of the planet.

So?  It does appear that they're tough enough to survive a crash from orbit in one piece... like the ships dotting the surface of Jakku.  Lifting off through a few dozen meters of soil and rock would be no big deal compared to stresses like that.

Though the whole schtick was clearly chosen for visual punch and not practicality.  Evil is hammy in Star Wars, as evidenced by drama queen Anakin Skywalker.

[Chronocidal]

3 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So?  It does appear that they're tough enough to survive a crash from orbit in one piece... like the ships dotting the surface of Jakku.  Lifting off through a few dozen meters of soil and rock would be no big deal compared to stresses like that.

Though the whole schtick was clearly chosen for visual punch and not practicality.  Evil is hammy in Star Wars, as evidenced by drama queen Anakin Skywalker.

Definitely wouldn't call those "in one piece," though how much was due to the original crash, and how much was due to salvagers tearing off bits is up for grabs.  Crashing into a pile is still a little different from forcing through a solid object, but you're not wrong, they probably wouldn't have that much trouble, what with "structural integrity fields" and all that technobabble.

However, I think seeing the vast majority of the second death star intact in an ocean on an entirely different moon than it was originally orbiting kinda skews that.. by all rights, if that much of the death star survived that explosion, you'd think the ships on Jakku would have just bounced, and been ready to go after refueling.

[Dynaman]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So?  It does appear that they're tough enough to survive a crash from orbit in one piece... like the ships dotting the surface of Jakku.  Lifting off through a few dozen meters of soil and rock would be no big deal compared to stresses like that.

All except that poor Superstar Destroyer that crashed into DS2 and went up like roman candle.

[Seto Kaiba]

12 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

All except that poor Superstar Destroyer that crashed into DS2 and went up like roman candle.

Maybe it hit an ammunition storehouse or something?  I mean, it is a ship the size of a city crashing into another ship the size of a moon.  There's gotta be LOTS of explosives there.

[Mog]

Or that one that had its hyperdrive crushed by a Sith while in hyperspace, and wound up smashed to hell with no onboard survivors.

Well, technically it’s a Republic destroyer.  

But very similar.

[jvmacross]

 

https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2020/12/an-update-on-taika-waititis-new-star-wars-movie.html

[jvmacross]

https://www.indiewire.com/2020/12/new-star-wars-movie-patty-jenkins-rogue-squadron-announced-1234603696/

[sh9000]

Yeah the 2 separate threads should be merged to this thread.

[sh9000]