Hi-Metal R Fire Bomber (VF-19 Fire Valkyrie, VF-11 MAXL, VF-17T)

[Usagi]

On 8/10/2024 at 9:10 AM, Chronocidal said:

There needs to be some consistency in where "height" is measured from.  The strike cannon doesn't count.  

Doesn't surprise me though, the HMR scales are generally in a "range" between about 1/100 and 1/80.  The VF-1s are on the larger end of that margin, and the old VF-19s were on the smaller end, so it wouldn't surprise me if they targeted the same size, rather than being properly in scale.

Also have to remember that the VF-19 isn't very tall though.  It collapses a whole lot to get that stocky battroid.  I'd rather see a fighter mode comparison.

Also.. yeah, Bandai.  Yeah.  Landing gear.  Just please, extract your brain from your upper colon already.  White, silver, black, I almost don't care anymore, just freaking commit to something.  

VF-19 fighter almost the same size as HMR VF-0

[Vifam7]

27 minutes ago, Usagi said:

Well, this years Arcadia rerelease much better and no problems with angles so far. Mechanically it seems the same, but they did something with joints material.

as for copying…

I’m guessing that Arcadia had financial problems … again, and sold VF-19 Kai 3D and mechanics data to Bandai. Because it is not just similar… it is exactly the same. They even copied stuff that is not required due to  parts exchanging during transformation. And they might do something with legs extension in fighter mode, but didn’t bother… etc.

actually VF-0 also seems the same case. Because HMR VF-0 almost identical to Arcadia releases.

Unlikely that Arcadia sold the data to Bandai.  From my experience on how rights licensing works, the licensor (ie. the owner of the Macross property rights - Big West) holds all the cards. Unless the contract between Big West and Arcadia stipulates that the toy design belongs to Arcadia, the toy design is Big West property.  And it's unlikely that such a stipulation is in the contract because that toy design data is highly valuable to Big West.  It's more likely that Big West took that Arcadia data and went to Bandai to get even more money. 

[Chronocidal]

Probably something along those lines, but I think it's been mentioned in the past that both Bandai and Yamato/Arcadia contracted a third party, TRex, to do their CAD design work.

Bandai usually puts more of their own spin on the designs, or makes specific requests for how to design things (excessive plastic inserts, nonsense engineering, etc), but it looks like they just decided to adopt the Yamato and Arcadia CAD designs verbatim for the past few HMR releases.

Not going to say it isn't weird, but I'm not going to complain about getting slightly more affordable and compact versions of Yamato's old stuff.  Frankly, I wish they'd do more of it, since they're easier to handle and display.  

[Usagi]

1 hour ago, Vifam7 said:

Unlikely that Arcadia sold the data to Bandai.  From my experience on how rights licensing works, the licensor (ie. the owner of the Macross property rights - Big West) holds all the cards. Unless the contract between Big West and Arcadia stipulates that the toy design belongs to Arcadia, the toy design is Big West property.  And it's unlikely that such a stipulation is in the contract because that toy design data is highly valuable to Big West.  It's more likely that Big West took that Arcadia data and went to Bandai to get even more money. 

This also might be the case. But before Bandai deliberately avoided copying of other’s stuff completely, so it still seems strange. And I’m not sure about robots, but in character figure cases, figure design is owned by both, main license holder and sculptor. Which means it is ok for main owner to use parts of sculpt design or even full sculpt by themselves, but forbidden to pass it “as is” to third parties without sculptor consent. Looks like in mechs category (or may be in big west category) rules and contracts are different.

16 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Probably something along those lines, but I think it's been mentioned in the past that both Bandai and Yamato/Arcadia contracted a third party, TRex, to do their CAD design work.

Bandai usually puts more of their own spin on the designs, or makes specific requests for how to design things (excessive plastic inserts, nonsense engineering, etc), but it looks like they just decided to adopt the Yamato and Arcadia CAD designs verbatim for the past few HMR releases.

Not going to say it isn't weird, but I'm not going to complain about getting slightly more affordable and compact versions of Yamato's old stuff.  Frankly, I wish they'd do more of it, since they're easier to handle and display.  

I myself would like to have old Yamato stuff in more affordable price range. So completely agree with making more

And as for t-Rex … well I don’t think it may be the case. Subcontractors in Japan usually forbidden to even show their work to other possible market competitors. So if these CAD data was passed to Bandai, it seems that CAD owner gave “ok” to this deal. But again, it may be like that only if Big west’s license works the same way as most character figures.

[jenius]

So many different variations of how this could happen. The design was originally paid for by Yamato and they went out of business. Arcadia may have kept the molds but the design may have reverted back to T-Rex. The design is also very old at this point so it's possible there were time limits involved by any of the companies involved that have all now passed. Everything previously postulated is in play too. I agree, up to the VF-0, Bandai seemed desperate almost to put their own mark on things (like the YF-21 where they threw out even what Kawamori had done). I'm okay with them shrinking good designs and making them more affordable, seems like a win for all of us.  

[Reïvaj]

Don't forget VF-4.

[MKT]

Its already documented (though indirectly) T-Rex worked on both the HMR VF-0 & VF-19, so no surprises these are mini-me Arcadias.

I can’t find any mention of T-Rex for the HMR VF-4, even for the upcoming re-issue, but safe to say they are also involved seeing how the HMR’s also  shrunk down in the same manner.

It may seem a bit boring if HMRs are almost a straightforward port of Arcadia’s, but so far it’s working out well as there’s nothing much to fault the larger versions to begin with. 
Except perhaps, HMR blue tinted cockpit canopy on the Kai looks much better than the yellow tinted one of Arcadia’s. 

I’m just wondering that if Bandai ever decide to make a HMR YF-19, which sculpt would they go for? Shrunk down version of their own DX, or Arcadia’s? 

[Bolt]

I wonder, with Bandai's already 1/100 parts former YF-19 and YF-21 , if they will move onto something else. It would seem obvious to milk the Kai mold, but we're talking Bandai. Also, domestically speaking, the Kai is one of the most popular VF's in Japan. 

[Froy]

 

[Usagi]

5 hours ago, MKT said:

Its already documented (though indirectly) T-Rex worked on both the HMR VF-0 & VF-19, so no surprises these are mini-me Arcadias.

I can’t find any mention of T-Rex for the HMR VF-4, even for the upcoming re-issue, but safe to say they are also involved seeing how the HMR’s also  shrunk down in the same manner.

It may seem a bit boring if HMRs are almost a straightforward port of Arcadia’s, but so far it’s working out well as there’s nothing much to fault the larger versions to begin with. 
Except perhaps, HMR blue tinted cockpit canopy on the Kai looks much better than the yellow tinted one of Arcadia’s. 

I’m just wondering that if Bandai ever decide to make a HMR YF-19, which sculpt would they go for? Shrunk down version of their own DX, or Arcadia’s? 

HMR VF-4 are quite different I terms of internal mechanical part proportions. So even though it looks alike I don’t think HMR might be Arcadia copy. 
 

but as for YF19/21 bandai seems to make thing too over complicated with chogokin series. So making this as a base for HMR is out of option for now…  yet Arcadia tend to make transformation smoother and easier, but they still have rights to exclusive use of current molds, so probably no YF series in HMR line for time being.

Edited August 11 by Usagi

[Graham]

Picked up my 2 HMR VF-19 Kai yesterday.

Only taken one out of the box so far and not transformed it ye, but have played with it a bit in battroid mode and really happy with it so far.

[Usagi]

On 8/11/2024 at 1:20 AM, Usagi said:

Hello, I just finished simple video with comparison of Arcadia and new Hi-Metal R
And these two are almost exactly the same in almost every aspects.
Sometimes, Bandai even copied unnecessary stuff ... 
Note: Video with english subtitles.

 

Question about legs. I just noticed that when I made this video (from quoted post) hip joint automatically moved to extended position because it have no stop peg as in Arcadia case, and hip joint more stiff than hip position mechanism. Not a big deal but making positioning a bit harder. I didn’t even noticed that till today.

Had anyone checked that? is it common?

[Usagi]

And bad news for those who want HMR booster. It is exactly the same as old HMR type… it is not copied from Arcadia!!!

here is some photos from Tamashii nations store Tokyo

[MKT]

I found illustrator Takeshi Nakamura's Tumblr page, so go here to view more of his works:

https://chronosolar.tumblr.com/

 

 

42 minutes ago, Usagi said:

And bad news for those who want HMR booster. It is exactly the same as old HMR type… it is not copied from Arcadia!!!

here is some photos from Tamashii nations store Tokyo

Don't know what to feel yet about it being the same.. Those pink speaker tiles at the rear do look more detailed than Yamcadia's, but the main circular speakers at the front look cheap for 2024, and could do with more detail separation. If they are not updating the mold for the circular speakers, the least they could do is adjust the paint scheme for that instead of it being a single silver mass.

Hopefully, they tweak the mold so the joints can be tighter too, because I remember the flaps feel rather loose when opening / closing them. 

[Usagi]

2 hours ago, MKT said:

I found illustrator Takeshi Nakamura's Tumblr page, so go here to view more of his works:

https://chronosolar.tumblr.com/

 

 

Don't know what to feel yet about it being the same.. Those pink speaker tiles at the rear do look more detailed than Yamcadia's, but the main circular speakers at the front look cheap for 2024, and could do with more detail separation. If they are not updating the mold for the circular speakers, the least they could do is adjust the paint scheme for that instead of it being a single silver mass.

Hopefully, they tweak the mold so the joints can be tighter too, because I remember the flaps feel rather loose when opening / closing them. 

The biggest problem for the booster is how speakers are turning. Arcadia offers long bar which helps to put rest part of backpack much lower and hide it. But in Bandai case that part covers half of the head height over the shoulders.

Edited August 12 by Usagi

[MKT]

1 hour ago, Usagi said:

The biggest problem for the booster is how speakers are turning. Arcadia offers long hour which helps to put rest part of backpack much lower and hide it. But in Bandai case that part covers half of the head height over the shoulders.

I see what you mean. The 1/60's lower backpack, enabled by the different rotation point for the speakers compared to the HM, certainly makes it look better and now I can't unsee it lol.

So actually, it looks like only the Soundbooster battroid adapter is different for the HMR compared to the HM, with an additional new Fighter-mode adapter. One can re-use the HM Soundbooster for the HMR by just printing new adapters.   

Edited August 12 by MKT

[Usagi]

4 hours ago, MKT said:

I see what you mean. The 1/60's lower backpack, enabled by the different rotation point for the speakers compared to the HM, certainly makes it look better and now I can't unsee it lol.

So actually, it looks like only the Soundbooster battroid adapter is different for the HMR compared to the HM, with an additional new Fighter-mode adapter. One can re-use the HM Soundbooster for the HMR by just printing new adapters.   

 

No need to print adapter it is included in HMR. Here is my video, check right below corner at 2:53 (I have put url so it would start at that time) this is exact the same adapter for booster as in the photo)))
When i checked it for the first time I wondered what is it for... now I have an answer )))
https://youtu.be/TAq_CnbNEQM?feature=shared&t=171

 

Edited August 12 by Usagi

[MKT]

1 hour ago, Usagi said:

 

No need to print adapter it is included in HMR. Here is my video, check right below corner at 2:53 (I have put url so it would start at that time) this is exact the same adapter for booster as in the photo)))
When i checked it for the first time I wondered what is it for... now I have an answer )))
https://youtu.be/TAq_CnbNEQM?feature=shared&t=171

 

Oh wow totally missed that! Thanks for pointing it out. It's great we can use the HM Soundbooster right off the bat.  

 

Digging more, I found couple of user pics online showing HM Soundbooster with the new HMR VF-19 Kai.

(from Onizuka Eikichi Siu)

(from Yiu Nim Lau)

 

Unfortunately, this is only half the story. After scrutinizing the package contents from @Usagi's video & also the manual, Bandai for some reason only included the Soundbooster adaptor for Battroid.

It looks like the Fighter-mode adaptor will come with the upcoming 'new' HMR Soundbooster. Way to go, Bandai.

  

Edited August 12 by MKT

[Chronocidal]

Trying to remember back that far is a trick now, but I think part of why I didn't even try to get the original HM sound booster was because Bandai didn't even try and give it a fighter mode mount.

I'm not even that concerned about it now, but if they ever do get around to actually making the whole band, I'll enjoy having them all mounted on that stand together.

[Mommar]

Hmm, watching those videos it's EXTREMELY similar to the Yammie but they're not quite the same.  Battroid is still a bit elongated in the torso compared to the Yammie which is a bit more squat.

[treatment]

 

Got my HMR Fire-Valk today, and so here be initial pic...

 

Initial impressions:

The HMR is almost exactly like a simplified Yamato/Arcadia 1/60 in design and deformation/transformation engineering, aside from:

• non-rotatiing cockpit
• default "wide" ears needs to be replaced with the non-default ones ("straights") when transfoming into Fighter mode.
• gappy shield/leg-engines area.
• wing edges are safely dulled/not-sharp, so it won't easily slice-cut you like the Yamarcadias
• dull matte finish.
• codpiece does not tab in to anything to secure itself in fighter-mode, unlike the Yamarcadia

It's a nice valk, but the scaling against the HMR VF-1 in battroid is really quite a turn off.  It really looks small and skinny next to the HMR VF-1...

 

 

 

Edited August 13 by treatment
added codpiece note

[ArchieNov]

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

Hmm, watching those videos it's EXTREMELY similar to the Yammie but they're not quite the same.  Battroid is still a bit elongated in the torso compared to the Yammie which is a bit more squat.

If you're basing it on Usagi's review (Hobby Fan in Japan), I think she forgot to shift the hips up. That's why it looks so long in her video.

[Usagi]

1 hour ago, ArchieNov said:

If you're basing it on Usagi's review (Hobby Fan in Japan), I think she forgot to shift the hips up. That's why it looks so long in her video.

Yeah, but I did not forget to shift it. Actually I did it… but because of very stiff hip joints and loose extension joints, after every single and even small rotation move of the legs in hip area hips automatically moved down. 
 

i didn’t noticed it during shooting, but after that it became obvious, especially on comparison screens.

 

12 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Trying to remember back that far is a trick now, but I think part of why I didn't even try to get the original HM sound booster was because Bandai didn't even try and give it a fighter mode mount.

I'm not even that concerned about it now, but if they ever do get around to actually making the whole band, I'll enjoy having them all mounted on that stand together.

Tamashi nations told me that it will be included in booster. And it seems connection will be done through the head (ear antennas, or so). But there is no connector prototype in the store, so the show only battroid with booster.

Edited August 13 by Usagi

[Raikkonen]

On 8/12/2024 at 10:20 AM, MKT said:

I found illustrator Takeshi Nakamura's Tumblr page, so go here to view more of his works:

https://chronosolar.tumblr.com/

I like his work. Has the style from Tamiya's boxes (Minus the white backgrounds)

18 hours ago, MKT said:

 

 

Always going to be a obvious move. Add the smallest cheapest possible extra to guarantee the sales. 

It's definitely being planned with the Ghost for 0S... 

Edited August 13 by Raikkonen

[Usagi]

2 minutes ago, Raikkonen said:

I like his work. Has the style from Tamiya's boxes (Minus the white backgrounds)

Always going to be a obvious move. Add the smallest cheapest possible extra to guarantee the sales. 

It's definitely being planned with the Ghost for 0S... 

yeah, 0S made me angry with them…

I can install Ghost Booster from 0A to 0S but I have to replace white parts to dark grey … 

so it seems Bandai will do additional booster release for 0S and 0D with the same booster but different attachement parts

[Froy]

Wotafa review is up

 

[MKT]

6 hours ago, Usagi said:

Tamashi nations told me that it will be included in booster. And it seems connection will be done through the head (ear antennas, or so). But there is no connector prototype in the store, so the show only battroid with booster.

It could be the ear antennas need to be removed and the Soundbooster adapter plugged in place. That seems appropriate, the Kai will be wearing the biggest mecha headphones ever known. Can't wait to plug in the Soundbooster that way in Battroid. 

 

5 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

Always going to be a obvious move. Add the smallest cheapest possible extra to guarantee the sales. 

It's definitely being planned with the Ghost for 0S... 

Part of me still hope they will release both Ghost variants as a set on its own with 0S attachment parts thrown in, but that seems so unrealistic now as the existing Ghost mold's clearly not intended to be a standalone item. Such a missed opportunity.. 

[MKT]

2 hours ago, Froy said:

Wotafa review is up

 

This shot in Wotafa's video really exemplifies how much out of whack HMR Macross scaling has become. I'm usually not particular about scaling, and Bandai did indicate they are non-scale, but I can understand if others have frustrations about it.

[Raikkonen]

2 hours ago, MKT said:

Part of me still hope they will release both Ghost variants as a set on its own with 0S attachment parts thrown in, but that seems so unrealistic now as the existing Ghost mold's clearly not intended to be a standalone item. Such a missed opportunity.. 

Nope, it can be with the existing one. It's only the underneath plate piece that needs to change to accommodate interchangeable landing gear, canards and a hole for the stand.  

Edited August 13 by Raikkonen

[lechuck]

On 8/11/2024 at 1:14 AM, treatment said:

 

https://x.com/simsim5479/status/1822165276646887690

web-translated:

 

Those gorilla arm proportions and oversized lower legs are not doing the HMR any favours, the HG kit is the only winner here.

[TheLoneWolf]

Lots of people mistakenly label the HMR line as "1/100" scale. It looks like the HMR Fire Valkyrie might actually be 1/100 (in battroid mode at least) and now everyone's complaining about scale. 😄

[jenius]

Given the remarks about the HMR being a copy of the Arcadia, it stands to reason that battroid will look too small. In fighter mode the Arcadia toy is about 1/56 scale but in battroid mode it is 1/66 scale (going off official measurements). This might be one of those rare occasions where Kawamori's math on what battroid mode height should be, was flawed. It seems like actual height should have been 14.1 meters (the height of the Arcadia toy *60), not 15.5. 

Edit - of course, if it were 14 meters, then it would be the same height as a VF-1 (14.2) and everything would make sense. 

Edit 2 - If you want 1/100 scale, the original Hi-Metal toy with its much longer proportions is 1/100 scale in battroid but is 1/88 in fighter. 

Edited August 13 by jenius

[Big s]

1 hour ago, lechuck said:

Those gorilla arm proportions and oversized lower legs are not doing the HMR any favours, the HG kit is the only winner here.

I like the look of the Plamax kit best so far. Once you ditch the transformation, it looks far more impressive 

[treatment]

from:

https://x.com/muko037/status/1822948192717308184

 

HMR VF-19 and VF-0A in fighter-mode:

 

[jvmacross]

What mode do most of these VF's end up being closer to one another...in either 1:100 or 1:60....Battroid, fighter, or Gerwalk?