Duke Togo Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 From IGN.com Nemo The White Lion? Here we go again. Disney hit with another plagiarism accusation. January 30, 2004 - A Paris court will hear a suit on February 17 brought by a French author who claims that Pixar Animation Studios stole the ideas in his children's book for the movie Finding Nemo. The story hit in late December when Author Franck le Calvez demanded an explanation from Disney, which distributed the film, and has been covered much more extensively in the foreign press than in the U.S. le Calvez lodged an outline of his work Pierrot Le Poisson Clown (Pierrot the Clown Fish) with a French authors' copyright association in 1995. The illustrated book had a number of elements similar to the Oscar-nominated Pixar film. In it, Pierrot loses a parent - in this case his father - to an evil predator and is separated from his remaining parent. After a journey described in one report as "enormous in its Homeric proportions," where he meets a surgeon fish and a cleaner shrimp, he is reunited with his mother. le Calvez made the rounds to French studios trying to sell the idea but gave up in 2000 and decided to publish it himself. He paid $71,000 of his own money to published 2,000 copies of the book in November 2002, with illustrations by Robin Delpuech and Thierry Jagodzinski. The book was published by France's Editions Flaven Scene, and the entire print run sold out in a month. le Calvez told the European press he was forced to take legal action after French bookshops stopped stocking his children's book because of fears they might be sued by Disney, even though his book came out before the film. At least one European Web site was still selling it, though, for 14.50 Euros. Even though the book was published in 2002 and Finding Nemo came one year later, it took Pixar several years to develop the film. le Calvaz's attorney Pascal Kamina told a reporter for The Hollywood Reporter he believes the story found its way to the U.S. after it was submitted to French studios in 1995. This has not been a good week for Walt Disney Studios as it is. Yesterday, Pixar announced it was ending its lucrative (for Disney) business arrangement and seeking a new distribution partner. When asked for a comment, a Disney representative said he would get back to us on Monday. Quote
captain america Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 How sad. Assuming the accusations are proven true ( I always give the benefit of the doubt), it would show a tremendous lack of foreward thinking on Disney's behalf: they could simply have offered the guy 100K for the rights to his story, and that would have been the end of it, everybody wins. Now, if Disney are indeed found guilty of stealing this fellow's idea, it'll probably end up costing them millions in damages. Is it just me being extra bright <_< , or is this an absolutely un-intelligent and downright stupid way of doing business? Then again, maybe Pixar's on to something <_< ... Quote
BoBe-Patt Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Man, now I see why my friend hates everything and anything that is disney. I still like disney, but it's slowly fading away because of what they are doing. Disney will do anything just to make money. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the verdict will be. Quote
SuperOstrich Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Guys, I hate to say it.....but Disney's clean on this one. Pixar is 100% responsible for all content creation, Disney is simply the distributor and marketer of the films. That said, I think Pixar is clean on this one too. Parents dying, going on a lone journey, etc. is all part of children's stories. All of them. More than one person was bound to write a story about a clownfish. As someone that's had aquariums, I can honestly say clownfish are about the most interesting fish around. Quote
Duke Togo Posted January 31, 2004 Author Posted January 31, 2004 Guys, I hate to say it.....but Disney's clean on this one. Pixar is 100% responsible for all content creation, Disney is simply the distributor and marketer of the films. That said, I think Pixar is clean on this one too. Parents dying, going on a lone journey, etc. is all part of children's stories. All of them. More than one person was bound to write a story about a clownfish. As someone that's had aquariums, I can honestly say clownfish are about the most interesting fish around. Did you check out the pic from the book in the link, Supes? Quote
SuperOstrich Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Yah, I read this story about 3 months ago. Edit: Just looked at the cover again. Looks nothing like Nemo as far as IP goes. Looks like a clownfish and is computer-generated, that's about it. Quote
JsARCLIGHT Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Sounds to me like this story is just another case of Hollywood tandem development. The French writer even states that he shopped the idea around a lot before he actually got it printed... doing that in hollywood circles is just asking to have someone lift your ideas. It's been done thousands of times before... just as long as the subject matter they lift is nebulous and cannot directly relate back to something that pre-exsisted it and was a registered item (which in this case may be harder to tell) it is almost perfectly legal. Makes me think of that time back in the nineties when two totally different animation houses made two totally different computer animated movies about two totally different sets of ants at the same time... ... or how two different movie makers made two totally different movies about a giant asteriod smashing into the earth and it being saved by two totally different groups of two totally different space shuttle-esque crews at the same time... I'd say that if this French story can be proven to have pre-exsisted in some established form well before Pixar began development of their story and the French court can prove that Pixar knowingly ripped this guy off then I'd say we have a case... after all, unlike the whole Kimba the White Lion thing were the item being ripped off was decades old and quite well remembered by a lot of people this French guy is basically saying in his argument that "he thought of the story at about the same time the Pixar guys did but because his got released first in what to disney is a secondary market he deserves a cut of their much more lucrative pie". I reserve judgement on Pixar until I hear more of the story as the case in court unfolds. Quote
TheLoneWolf Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Old news. Anyways, like SuperO said, Disney is innocent as all they handle are that marketing and distribution of Pixar's films. Given Disney's non-existant role in the creative aspect of Pixar films, I don't even consider Finding Nemo, Monster's Inc. et al to be "Disney" films. But I digress. While I feel terrible for Franck le Calvez's book sales, I think it's just an incredible coincidence. I wonder if this newfound media attention will, in any way. affect the sales of Pierrot Le Poisson Clown . Quote
Skippy438 Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Sigh ... What's stopping me from researching on the internet about Pixar's new movie The Incredibles (which doesn't come out til november) or their even newer film which information just popped up about, copying it in a foreign country in a different format (i.e. movie to book) and get it published at a small firm just to get it out before-hand and then sue Pixar. Granted, this is far-fetched, but this guys story just sounds ... fishy. Pun intended. Quote
captain america Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Sigh ... What's stopping me from researching on the internet about Pixar's new movie The Incredibles (which doesn't come out til november) or their even newer film which information just popped up about, copying it in a foreign country in a different format (i.e. movie to book) and get it published at a small firm just to get it out before-hand and then sue Pixar. ...The fact that Pixar has already announced the release date and concept behind their film and most certainly has dated pre-production shots, character designs and scripts to counter your accusations. In a court of law, evidence is golden. Speaking of which, as a rule of thumb to ANYONE presenting an idea to a secondary party, get that party to sign an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) beforehand. This will make it far more difficult for people to steal your ideas, and while it certainly isn't a perfect solution, it at least provides you with a piece of tangible evidence that the party in question has looked at, and promised not to copy your idea. Quote
the white drew carey Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Sigh ... What's stopping me from researching on the internet about Pixar's new movie The Incredibles (which doesn't come out til november) or their even newer film which information just popped up about, copying it in a foreign country in a different format (i.e. movie to book) and get it published at a small firm just to get it out before-hand and then sue Pixar. Granted, this is far-fetched, but this guys story just sounds ... fishy. Pun intended. Well, the outline of the book was registered as copyright in France in 1995. Maybe there's that going for him? Quote
Druna Skass Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Man what the hell happend to Disney anyway? I miss all the old school stuff with the drinking, the smoking, and the violence... Quote
Nightbat Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Man what the hell happend to Disney anyway? I miss all the old school stuff with the drinking, the smoking, and the violence... don't forget the pr0n Quote
Isamu Atreides 86 Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Man what the hell happend to Disney anyway? I miss all the old school stuff with the drinking, the smoking, and the violence... don't forget the pr0n and the not so hidden phalic symbols.... Quote
Southcross Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 This has not been a good week for Walt Disney Studios as it is. Yesterday, Pixar announced it was ending its lucrative (for Disney) business arrangement and seeking a new distribution partner. When asked for a comment, a Disney representative said he would get back to us on Monday. Yay for Pixar! Is it just me or does Disney seem more like Microsloth. Trying to find a way to stamp their name on everything to get the royalties? Makes me think of that time back in the nineties when two totally different animation houses made two totally different computer animated movies about two totally different sets of ants at the same time...... or how two different movie makers made two totally different movies about a giant asteriod smashing into the earth and it being saved by two totally different groups of two totally different space shuttle-esque crews at the same time... Deep Impact and Armegeddon... hehe then there is Red Planet and Mission to Mars... So many stories have "similaries" more or less because just about everything has been done. You have to think really creatively to get a truely original work. I give Kudos to Pixar, every movie I have seen of theirs has been excellently done. Though I have not seen Nemo, YET Quote
Duke Togo Posted January 31, 2004 Author Posted January 31, 2004 Man what the hell happend to Disney anyway? I miss all the old school stuff with the drinking, the smoking, and the violence... You are thinking of Warner Bros "Looney Toons". Quote
007-vf1 Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Man what the hell happend to Disney anyway? I miss all the old school stuff with the drinking, the smoking, and the violence... don't forget the pr0n ...and un-revealing-always-welcome nudity... I think some of these companies have somethign about Disney or viceversa. I heard the story about Dreamworks, and talking about sweet revenge, how they got back at Disney with Shrek (they really stuck it to them) Quote
MSW Posted February 1, 2004 Posted February 1, 2004 I doubt this French guy has a "real" case..way back in the 1980's there was an obscure indie comic book titled Fish Police...and IIRC one of the issues featured the heros investigateing a case involveing a missing clown fish character...course a short lived animated TV series basied on this comic book aired on TV back in 1992, and it's entirely possable the creater of the Fish Police now has ties to Pixar. Quote
Druna Skass Posted February 1, 2004 Posted February 1, 2004 (edited) You are thinking of Warner Bros "Looney Toons". No I'm thinking of those old school ones with Donald Duck and Goofy. There's was one I remember where Goofy finds out he's going to be a dad and decides to quit smoking, only to have him desparatly (I mean heroine withdrawal, desparate) looking for a cigarette the entire episode. He went around looking for re-burns and went as far as to try to smoke regular leaves. Then there's all those Donald Duck ones where he completly loses his temper and puts a baseball bat or hammer to everything and tries to beat the hell out of either his nephews or Chip and Dale, hell there even times when he tries to poison someone. There's all those numerous times when they get hammered, I think there was even one where Goofy was driving drunk. Edited February 1, 2004 by Druna Skass Quote
Effect Posted February 1, 2004 Posted February 1, 2004 I know what you mean. There were a few ones that were violent. My favorite has to be the one with Goofy as Mr. Wheeler. Talk about road rage. Quote
Jawjaw Posted February 1, 2004 Posted February 1, 2004 Man what the hell happend to Disney anyway? I miss all the old school stuff with the drinking, the smoking, and the violence... LOL - Old school animation rocks. You know times have changed when you have to edit children's cartoons to play them on tv. Quote
Druna Skass Posted February 1, 2004 Posted February 1, 2004 (edited) I know what you mean. There were a few ones that were violent. My favorite has to be the one with Goofy as Mr. Wheeler. Talk about road rage. Oh I remember that one, he even had tally marks on his door of all the pedestrians he ran over, we saw that in my driver's ed class for fun once. Edited February 1, 2004 by Druna Skass Quote
Agent ONE Posted February 1, 2004 Posted February 1, 2004 I know what you mean. There were a few ones that were violent. My favorite has to be the one with Goofy as Mr. Wheeler. Talk about road rage. LOL, I love that one! I need to find that on DVD. Quote
KingNor Posted February 1, 2004 Posted February 1, 2004 i doubt much will come of this french guys claims. MAYBE disney will settle out of court, but they might go so far as to counter sue this guy for the bad publicity he's causing. from what i can tell, there was no actual copyright infringment, yet the similaritys are embarrisingly obvious. if they did lift the concept from this guys(legal btw) it would be more of an example of lack of creativity. you can't copy right the story of a child seperated from his parents and the journey to be reunited. think of it this way. there have been dozens of books written by people who went through the holocaust, i've read many of them. MOST of them are very similar treatment wise, but the plots are diffrent. its not like one author could turn ot the next and say "hey, writeing about personal experiences in the holocaust was MY idea!" it just doesn't work that way. you can't copyright the right to write a story about clownfish. nor can you copy right the story of a child looking for his parrents. as for pixar leaving. their contract is up. its plain and simple, its not pixar "sticking it" to disney or anything. both companys signed a contract, and that contract is expired. it just HAPPEND this guy is bringing up charges near the end of the contract. that said, i'm glad pixar is leaving disney. Quote
SuperOstrich Posted February 2, 2004 Posted February 2, 2004 Pixar is kinda sticking it to Disney though. Disney made a few offers to renew the contract, and Pixar rejected them. Quote
Blaine23 Posted February 2, 2004 Posted February 2, 2004 Pixar is kinda sticking it to Disney though. Disney made a few offers to renew the contract, and Pixar rejected them. Meh... Disney should be kissing Pixar's digital butt, if you ask me. Treasure Planet or Finding Nemo... I'd say Diz owes Pixar pretty good. It's kinda hard to get behind a company that forces Walt's nephew to take a walk. Quote
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