Andor (Star Wars: Andor) - Disney+

[sh9000]

Good character development.  Looking forward to episode 6.

[Seto Kaiba]

All right, Andor episode 5 has dropped... "The Axe Forgets".

This, I think, is probably pretty good confirmation that we're going to be following a similar three-episode story arc package for the entire series or at least the entire first season.  "The Axe Forgets" is another middle installment spent building up to the action sequences in the next episode.

It's interesting how this series manages to humanize the Imperials without actually making them any less monstrous.  The ISB are shown to have a sort of solidariy among their individual teams, and the grunts at the Aldhani garrison are mostly just men going about their jobs who aren't particularly interested or enthusiastic about the Imperial agenda... they're just doing their jobs.

It's also interesting that this at least portrays the rebels as a lot more nuanced and morally complex than any previous work.  Some, like Vel, seem to be in it for the principle of the thing.  A lot of the ones we've met, though, are just damaged souls who seem to mainly be invested in hurting the Empire than in the grand cause of liberation.

Spoiler

Syril Karn is back!  And he's still living with his mum!  He seriously looks like he's about to cry every time he's onscreen, though.  With a mother like that, I can hardly blame him... good lord that is a toxic relationship.  She actually seems to be almost enjoying his misery.  Much ado about some "Uncle Harlo" who is implied to have serious connections that might get Syril another job.

Cassian wakes up on Aldhani and discovers the other Rebels have been going through his kit because they don't trust him.  He apparently kept the gun he murdered that Preox-Morlana security guy with, as they make a point of bringing up that it's a corporate-issue firearm (and showing the company logo).  It's been a bad week for telegraphed twists after Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!! but the way they handle that pistol means it might as well have a label "PROPERTY OF CHEKHOV" on it.

Spoiler

Five'll get you twenty that Cassian somehow ends up leaving the stolen Preox-Morlana pistol behind and the ISB finds it while combing through the wreckage.  That'll be their first hard evidence of an organized rebellion rather than a string of disorganized coincidences... the gun from the double homicide on Morlana One on the person of the man in possession of a stolen piece of navigation equipment from an Imperial shipyard on Ferrix ends up at the scene of a break-in and robbery at an Imperial base holding payroll funds on Aldhani.

Wow... Mon Mothma's family life is pretty toxic.  Stereotypical WASP sh*t.  A wealthy and influential husband and wife who loathe each other, and a child who resents them both for their apparent self-obsession.  Lots of high-handed backbiting and snide remarks over a long table.

On Aldhani, Cassian spends a bunch of time getting to know the other rebels and learn their various quirks.  One of them is an ex-con with prison tattoos who is impressed that Cassian knows what his tattoos mean.  The kid is a goofy intellectual who gushes about some old (analog?) navigation technology and a manifesto he's writing about how to fight the Empire's culture war.  There's a really uncomfortable scene where the crew have to be arm-twisted into admitting they don't actually know how to fly the craft they're planning to steal but Cassian does.  Suddenly it makes a ton of sense why Luthen was going to pull the plug on the op.  This clown college barely knows if it's coming or going.

They run through some rehearsals for the big day and practice impersonating Imperial soldiers.

We get to see a bit of Lt. Gorn on the job, which seems to be being a hardass (or maybe just fed up with a soft and lazy garrison force demoralized by an undesirable posting.)

They're still cleaning up the aftermath of Cassian's car bomb on Ferrix.  Lt. Blevin is working on installing the Imperial presence on Ferrix.

There's a scene of the Imperials buzzing their camp in a fighter for yuks.

There's an interesting moment where they finally have to have the conversation about "Clem" being a mercenary who was hired to support their mission.  They're upset about it, and Cassian gets in a few bits of sage advice about the difference between fear and loss of nerve.

Mon Mothma does some more sniping with her husband in their hover-limo.

We get some more exchanging of tragic backstories driving each person's revenge.

Luthen is agonizing about the mission in his shop on Coruscant... and the episode ends there with the promise that the operation is starting soon.

 

[Duke Togo]

If they can make a Star Wars drama that is this good, why not explore other genres? Comedy, horror, thriller, what have you. Andor proves it doesn’t all have to be space opera or action.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Duke Togo

[Tking22]

Caught up on Andor last night and I'm really enjoying the series overall, bit of a slow burn, but it's fairly competent and well written, it looks better then Obi-Wan, which is insane he's a major legacy character, and it's got heart. We're being given reasons to feel for these people, and hate the Empire, they're doing a solid job of pushing why the Rebellion was so important, and why so many were willing to sacrifice so much for it. 

[Dobber]

21 hours ago, Duke Togo said:

If they can make a Star Wars drama that is this good, why not explore other genres? Comedy, horror, thriller, what have you. Andor proves it doesn’t all have to be space opera or action.

 

6 hours ago, Tking22 said:

Caught up on Andor last night and I'm really enjoying the series overall, bit of a slow burn, but it's fairly competent and well written, it looks better then Obi-Wan, which is insane he's a major legacy character, and it's got heart. We're being given reasons to feel for these people, and hate the Empire, they're doing a solid job of pushing why the Rebellion was so important, and why so many were willing to sacrifice so much for it. 

Count me as another person who is thoroughly enjoying this show, from sets and location visuals, acting, story, to even the music. I agree why oh why was Obi-wan so cheesy looking and sounding, got what lame music that series had. Such a waste.

Chris

[Seto Kaiba]

22 hours ago, Duke Togo said:

If they can make a Star Wars drama that is this good, why not explore other genres? Comedy, horror, thriller, what have you. Andor proves it doesn’t all have to be space opera or action.

From the outside looking in, the "Why not?" is pretty obvious.  

Andor is the exception, not the rule.  It's the only one of the four Disney+ Star Wars series so far that is being carried by the quality of its writing and acting rather than the quantity of its self-indulgent fanservice.  There is absolutely no guarantee that they do any other story, regardless of genre, at this level of quality.  Goodness knows if they could do that on command they would've done it where it counted... like in Solo, the sequel trilogy, the prequel trilogy, the other three shows, the Expanded Universe, etc.

[Bolt]

There was way more thought, attention to continuity and proper story telling going on ,between a room full of writers doing their own thing, in the EU. Heck, the comics way better than most of what mouse ears has produced to date. 
Andor is certainly the exception so far. 
 

Spoiler

I still see the wanna be ISB boy going vigilante and trying to take revenge on Cassian. He's a broken little boy who needs to be dead. 

 

[electric indigo]

Finally caught up with the latest episodes, and I can't believe how good it is!

_

As for the future of Syril, there's rumors about Uncle Harlo's job offer:

[MikeRoz]

On 10/5/2022 at 9:07 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

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Syril Karn is back!  And he's still living with his mum! 

Spoiler

Why is he still here REEEEEEEEEEEE! All his screen time could be going to a Carrie Matheson or Ysanne Isard!

Though I'm starting to believe the blonde ISB analyst is onto something, even if she's wrong about Cassian's theft specifically.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

21 hours ago, Bolt said:

There was way more thought, attention to continuity and proper story telling going on ,between a room full of writers doing their own thing, in the EU. Heck, the comics way better than most of what mouse ears has produced to date. 

Forgive me for belaboring the obvious point, but there's quite a galaxy of difference between the kind of writing in licensed works that is intended to appeal to die-hard fans and the kind of writing intended to appeal to and engage general audiences.  What die-hard fans might consider good or even exceptional writing in Expanded Universe material is not at all likely to be well-received by the casual audience because the fundamental expectations regarding what constitutes "quality" are different.

One of the main reasons Andor stands head, shoulders, knees, toes, and a human pyramid of wookiees above its contemporaries in the Star Wars franchise is that its writers are actively avoiding the self-indulgent obsession with fanservice that is the hallmark of EU writing and that too often becomes the norm when you have fans working on properties they started as fans of.

 

1 hour ago, MikeRoz said:

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Why is he still here REEEEEEEEEEEE! All his screen time could be going to a Carrie Matheson or Ysanne Isard!

Though I'm starting to believe the blonde ISB analyst is onto something, even if she's wrong about Cassian's theft specifically.

Spoiler

Five'll get you twenty that he's going to get swept up in Lt. Meero's investigation and end up either "consulting" with the ISB or joining the ISB as an agent.

At this point I half-expect Major Partagaz IS "Uncle Harlo".  Either that or he's some common relative of Karn's and Meero's.

That Lt. Meero IS onto something is kind of what they're building up to... she's just Right for the Wrong Reasons.  There 100% is an organized rebellion forming and it's a safe bet that a fair amount of the activity she's detecting is connected to it.  What's happening here seems to be the narrative equivalent of using the wrong math formula and still getting the right answer.  She's looking for evidence of organized rebel activity and she's latched onto Cassian because he's the only connection between two incidents and is almost certainly about to leave another clue (the Pre-Mor security gun) that will make her think these incidents that are only connected by Cassian's physical presence are the evidence of a pattern.

 

[MikeRoz]

50 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Spoiler

Five'll get you twenty that he's going to get swept up in Lt. Meero's investigation and end up either "consulting" with the ISB or joining the ISB as an agent.

Spoiler

Yeah, if he were a likable protagonist character, you'd be rooting for him to exaggerate the usefulness of his direct experience with the subject of the ISB's investigation. Like how you're happy Alec Baldwin bluffs his way onto a nuclear attack submarine, half because you like him and half because you know the story requires him to be there so you can follow him. Nobody, onscreen or off, likes this guy, including his own mother. Everyone in that agency knows him for his colossal screw-up. The most he can claim is that he heard Cassian's voice. And at least as the story is structured so far, I'm not clamoring for this guy to get hooked in with the ISB so the story can move forward. 

 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

a human pyramid of wookiees

Ironic, for someone who has so much fun pointing out contradictions 😜

[Seto Kaiba]

53 minutes ago, MikeRoz said:

  Hide contents

Yeah, if he were a likable protagonist character, you'd be rooting for him to exaggerate the usefulness of his direct experience with the subject of the ISB's investigation. Like how you're happy Alec Baldwin bluffs his way onto a nuclear attack submarine, half because you like him and half because you know the story requires him to be there so you can follow him. Nobody, onscreen or off, likes this guy, including his own mother. Everyone in that agency knows him for his colossal screw-up. The most he can claim is that he heard Cassian's voice. And at least as the story is structured so far, I'm not clamoring for this guy to get hooked in with the ISB so the story can move forward. 

Spoiler

To be fair, being an officious, unpleasant, and entirely unlikeable prat is practically a hiring requirement for Imperial service.

Syril Karn is not just a broken man with nothing left to lose - just like Cassian - he is someone connected enough with the events Lt. Dedra Meero of the ISB is gleefully (and, thus far, incorrectly) interpreting as evidence of organized rebel activity that he could fail upwards into ISB service by Meero mistakenly believing he spotted the thread.  It's one thing to be a cop who botched the arrest of a murder suspect.  It's quite another to be the cop who stumbled onto a secret terrorist operation and paid a terrible price for it.  He's also an authoritarian with a grudge against Cassian, which makes him a potential Javert-esque foil to Cassian if played right.

The only one who really knows he's a hopeless screwup is Blevin, and Meero is likely to reject Blevin's assessment of Karn because they're rivals and she already has a grudge against him for denying her jurasdiction.

 

53 minutes ago, MikeRoz said:

Ironic, for someone who has so much fun pointing out contradictions 😜

Well, they can't all be gems... but talk about a missed opportunity for a prequel meme!

Edited October 8, 2022 by Seto Kaiba

[Bolt]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

there's quite a galaxy of difference between the kind of writing in licensed works that is intended to appeal to die-hard fans and the kind of writing intended to appeal to and engage general audiences. 

Many movies have being made from fan service novels and comics and have done  quite well with the general audience. 
And there's many a good story in the EU that can translate to the big screen that the general audience would gobble up. By general audience , i mean anyone that's heard of Star Wars. 
Yes ,there's a difference in writing for "fan service novels" and writing for the screen. But novels are translated to film all the time .

And , it's fairly obvious, many a fan of SW have not enjoyed too much missed placed fan service  in the more recent movies and series'.

And some of the most successful Disney backed writers and producers in the current mix are EU fans. 

[Seto Kaiba]

10 minutes ago, Bolt said:

And there's many a good story in the EU that can translate to the big screen that the general audience would gobble up. By general audience , i mean anyone that's heard of Star Wars.

There may well be.  Then again, there may not.  Someone has to be brave enough to actually test the hypothesis first before we'll know for sure.

Disney's not as confident in the brand as they were when they were before fans tore them a new one over the sequel trilogy and Solo.  With Andor handily grabbing most of the attention, I suspect we'll see more efforts towards original storytelling with a minimum of fanservice.  Nothing succeeds like success, after all.  If they can keep bringing fresh product like Andor that isn't buried in self-indulgent fanservice they can probably undo a lot of the damage the sequel trilogy and Solo did.

 

10 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Yes ,there's a difference in writing for "fan service novels" and writing for the screen. But novels are translated to film all the time .

And , it's fairly obvious, many a fan of SW have not enjoyed too much missed placed fan service  in the more recent movies and series'.

Yes, novels are adapted to screenplays all the time... but there's a big difference between adapting an already-popular novel that had broad appeal like, say, Jurassic Park or Harry Potter, and adapting a licensed novel intended to cater to a much smaller audience.  It's almost exclusively the former.

(It can work under the right conditions, but because western audiences are still locked into "animation is for the children" Japan's cheap way of doing it is seen as unattractive to most studios and the production cost of these direct-to-streaming shows is absolutely insane so studios are being very cautious.  Mind you, being cautious is not the same thing as exercising good judgement either... it's possible to very cautiously make huge numbers of terrible decisions, like The Rise of Skywalker.)

 

10 minutes ago, Bolt said:

And some of the most successful Disney backed writers and producers in the current mix are EU fans. 

Being a fan of something does not mean you are not able to recognize its flaws.  It usually means you love something despite, or even because of, its flaws.

If there are writers who are fans of the EU, they're no doubt exercising their professional judgement to separate what they personally enjoy from what's workable for the general audiences. 😉 

[derex3592]

Started Andor this weekend, three in and two to go tonight. This is the best show they've done. Hands down. For all the reasons already mentioned. I'm shocked and amazed they could do this so well for a character I never gave a flip about in Rogue One.  Very well done show so far.  Eagerly looking forward to 4 and 5 tonight.  Whoever said it's Star Wars for adults was 100% accurate.  

[Mog]

I have this sneaking suspicion the Disney suits left the Andor folks to their own devices, while they put all their attention on Obi-Wan.

[Dobber]

1 hour ago, Mog said:

I have this sneaking suspicion the Disney suits left the Andor folks to their own devices, while they put all their attention on Obi-Wan.

That seems right to me looking at the results. Plus pretty sure we did hear about KK being more involved with Obi-Wan. Wouldn’t be surprised if she figured it was a more  visible product and wanted more credit/input. 
 

Chris

[Duke Togo]

45 minutes ago, Dobber said:

That seems right to me looking at the results. Plus pretty sure we did hear about KK being more involved with Obi-Wan. Wouldn’t be surprised if she figured it was a more  visible product and wanted more credit/input. 
 

Chris

Fact is Tony Gilroy is simply the most talented person they’ve had work on any of these shows.

[Seto Kaiba]

Subjective assessments of talent aside, Tony Gilroy definitely stands out among Disney Star Wars showrunners for his creative integrity and insistence on putting storytelling above fanservice.  I'm pretty impressed by how thoroughly he's stuck to his guns on what I was so sure was an impossible promise.

VERY excited for tomorrow's episode.  

[Big s]

Kinda behind a bit and finally watched last weeks episode of the Clem show. Kinda dull and a bit emo. It seemed like more of a tease for action to come. Didn’t really think about it the first time I saw him, but is tattoo guy the one from the punisher?

[Mog]

^^Yes, apparently, he’s Micro from the Netflix Punisher series.

[Big s]

1 hour ago, Mog said:

^^Yes, apparently, he’s Micro from the Netflix Punisher series.

It was the way he was talking that reminded me of him. I didn’t key into it on the first appearance because he didn’t have the beard

[Mog]

I honestly didn’t even realize it was him, until someone online pointed it out.

[Dobber]

I’m really looking forward to today’s episode. 
 

Chris

Edited October 12, 2022 by Dobber

[sh9000]

6 episodes in and still good.  Looking forward to episode 7.

[Big s]

This episode was fairly predictable. Pretty much everything went the way it should be expected.

Spoiler

I think the only odd things were that they didn’t get into why the boss lady was hesitating, and I didn’t expect that guy to just die of a heart attack.

kinda wondering about the plan for the doctorish lady. It seems there were a lot of witnesses that saw her face and saw her put on the uniform.

I kinda get the feeling that they cut some stuff to add a silly singing scene.

Overall it’s not a bad episode. The Clem show still looks better than the Obi show.

[Mog]

So many questions.

But we’ll see how things pan out.

Spoiler

Had to watch again to see what happened with Lt. Gorn (gets shot in the chest).

And I take it the 80 million credits will finance the Rebellion and buy a few fleet of X-Wings.

The first of many proverbial Bothan spies to die for this little Rebellion.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

Huh... I have to admit, that was quite a bit less exciting than I was expecting.

Rather like episode 3, it was mostly buildup with the actual action confined to the episode's latter half.

Spoiler

Aside from Vel running a bit late, the plan goes off almost without a hitch.

They literally walk right into the Imperial Garrison while impersonating the commandant's bodyguard detail and take him and his family prisoner.  The colonel from offworld gets shot and killed trying to be a hero, but other than that the Rebels capture the base without any casualties on either side.  The Imperial troops working in the hangar get drafted to load the ship.  It only comes apart when a squad from up on the wall get curious about the disruption and come down to see the heist in progress.

The only real surprise in the ensuing dustup is that the base commandant seems to have a heart attack brought on by the exertion of having to push the cart they were using to load the money onto the ship.  Conveniently, the only rebels to die in the ensuing firefight are the ex-Imperials.  Lt. Gorn takes one in the chest early on and goes down, and ex-stormtrooper Taramyn gets shot and killed trying to rescue Vel.  Vel, Nemik, Skeen, and "Clem" get out alive on the transport and Cinta walks out the base's front door as if she's just popping out to the summer market.  

I thought these ships had, like, inertial dampers or something?  Physics ensue during the transport's high-speed takeoff when the Imperials around it are thrown around by the jet wash and Nemik learns the hard way that F=MA when an unrestrained and very heavy cart loaded with rolls of solid metal ingots succumbs to Newton's laws and is propelled into his body by the force of takeoff, paralyzing him.  He then has to give the escape navigation instructions while paralyzed and drugged halfway to hell.  Their escape is well made and predictably rather than scramble the entire airwing the Imperials launch THREE fighters to chase down a stolen ship that just blasted off from an important base.

Post-escape we get the predictable reveal that Skeen is just a scumbag who's looking to betray the rebels and make off with the stolen money.  His sob story about his dead brother was a complete lie.  They've taken Nemik to a doctor who was part of the team's escape contingency plan, and it's unclear if he will survive.  While Skeen tries to sell Cassian on the idea of splitting the stolen money 50-50 and legging it, Cassian guns him down and then buys the doctor's old ship to go his own way, leaving Vel with the 80 million or so credits they stole and Luthen's pendant.  

I have to admit I was expecting things to go wrong a lot sooner in the heist.  This played out like a garden variety bank robbery for the most part... which, I guess, is kind of what it was.  

It's also really weird how that one rifle that keeps doing the rounds of Vel's rebel group is just a totally unmodified Kalashnikov.  Yeah, it's a laser gun like all the others but it's just... an AK.  At least tart it up a little bit, guys?

Spoiler

I'm still largely without context for exactly how much money 80 million credits is... but it's clearly a lot since Cassian offers 15,000 for a used starship the doctor has, and he claims that's more than it's worth.  

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Seto Kaiba

[Mog]

I’m just thankful they’re showing the not-so-glamorous side of both the Rebellion and the Imperials.

These low-level grunts/staff on both sides are utterly expendable in the name of their respective “causes.”

[jvmacross]

Young idealist Han Solo would have donated his entire cut to the Rebel kickstarter!

Edited October 12, 2022 by jvmacross

[Dobber]

Another fantastic episode for me! One thing I hope the show decides to do is make Storm Troopers more menacing. It’s one of my biggest gripes about the saga that storm troopers from Return of the Jedi on are just Jokes. I would’ve preferred regular imperial troopers like what we saw in this episode or also in Solo, be the main force of the imperial army and Storm Troopers be more of an elite force…as they sort of came off at the start of ANH and as Ben suggested in that movie..and then again in Empire during the Hoth attack. So far this show has shied away from showing them and with the gradual increase in threats, first it was a corporate security force alluding to imperials being a worse threat, then to Imperial “regulars” again alluding to a harsher force (Storm Troopers) plus the added maturity and serious tone of the show perhaps Stormies will be shown as a scary threat when the show up.

Chris

Edited October 13, 2022 by Dobber

[Roy Focker]

It was good.  Predictable and slow like all the episodes. It's just refreshing to see them tell a Star Wars story for adults. Movies have to be big, mindless, action filled, nostalgia affairs to appeal to the widest audience. TV/Streaming is made for stuff like this.

This is treatment they should have gave Obi-Wan.

 

[Mog]

You mean you didn’t feel Wade’s death in OWK. . . after his 30 seconds of total prior screen time?

[Roy Focker]

Wade!!!

Took me a minute to remember who you were talking about.

[Big s]

41 minutes ago, Roy Focker said:

Wade!!!

Took me a minute to remember who you were talking about.

How can you forget Wade?!!!