Andor (Star Wars: Andor) - Disney+

[Mog]

^^Can’t wait to watch them write some long verbose memos together! 🤪

[jvmacross]

37 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah, I'm a wordy so-and-so... 😅

Stream of consciousness rambling aside, I'm enjoying Andor enough to not only give it my full attention but to start getting invested in the fate of the characters and thinking about the setting and the bits of context I'm missing.  If the goal was to get non-fans invested in the series, it's mission accomplished in my case.   

(Admittedly not always the characters we're supposed to be getting invested in... I'm shipping Blevin and Dedra even though it's totally the wrong genre for an ending like that.)

Well, based on your initial assessment of the show....it looked like the chances of you ending up liking it were north of 3,720 to 1....but I'm guessing you are not one for entertaining the odds....

Hopefully, this ride doesn't run out of gas before it reaches the finish line...or worse...

[sh9000]

I like all of the episodes of Andor so far and look forward to episode 5.

[Dobber]

Oh God….THE SPIN! One of the most infamous acts in Star Wars history now. I had nearly forgotten it. Lol

Chris

[azrael]

From 2.5 boring episodes to finally STARTING to go somewhere with this...

Spoiler

And going from a bunch of incompetent local security, who are now out of jobs, to the Imperial bureaucracy. Memos, protocols, procedures...Reminds me Rex spitting out protocol IDs from Rebels.

 

[Roy Focker]

They could have trimmed the first 3 episodes to 2 but overall I'm enjoying the pace and world building. This is a more mature psychological thriller over an exciting adventure.

I hope they bring back the private security goons. 

[Dobber]

I think of this as Star Wars’ version of Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. 

[Big s]

3 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

They could have trimmed the first 3 episodes to 2 but overall I'm enjoying the pace and world building. This is a more mature psychological thriller over an exciting adventure.

I hope they bring back the private security goons. 

If they cut out the flash backs, we could’ve already been at this point. So far two dull episodes, one better episode and one interesting teaser episode. I think the problem here isn’t so much the writing like in the Obi show but lack of a good editor for the Clem show. I also kinda feel bad for the imperials and get the feeling that they’re just fighting a bunch of A..holes. 

the thing that’s keeping me watching on this one is that the last couple episodes have some interesting stuff going on. It’s sort of like the reason I’m still watching Rings of Power. They’re both kinda dull with hints of interest that makes me think something is gonna happen, and I hope that something doesn’t disappoint 

[Seto Kaiba]

On 9/28/2022 at 10:12 PM, jvmacross said:

Well, based on your initial assessment of the show....it looked like the chances of you ending up liking it were north of 3,720 to 1....but I'm guessing you are not one for entertaining the odds....

I'll admit my hopes were not high going into Andor.

Being only a casual enjoyer of the Star Wars movies, I was a bit leery about Andor from the outset because the other three Disney+ series are so fanservice-heavy that I felt locked out of the loop.  Andor has so far avoided that pitfall, which is a huge plus in my book.  It's accessible enough to stand alone, but still fits into the bigger picture of Star Wars.  Four episodes in, and once you get past the excess of dramatic silent walking there are some engaging characters.  

Once the story's either got a premise unusual enough to hook me or characters I can get invested in, I'm with it 'til the end.  Andor has reached that point for me.  I'm invested in it enough to wanna see where it ends up.

(The weirdest things can hook me on a series too... I added Ya Boy Kongming! to my watchlist because the OP is just ridiculously stylish.)

 

5 hours ago, Big s said:

If they cut out the flash backs, we could’ve already been at this point. So far two dull episodes, one better episode and one interesting teaser episode. I think the problem here isn’t so much the writing like in the Obi show but lack of a good editor for the Clem show. I also kinda feel bad for the imperials and get the feeling that they’re just fighting a bunch of A..holes. 

the thing that’s keeping me watching on this one is that the last couple episodes have some interesting stuff going on. It’s sort of like the reason I’m still watching Rings of Power. They’re both kinda dull with hints of interest that makes me think something is gonna happen, and I hope that something doesn’t disappoint 

TBH, I think the writers probably own the lion's share of the blame for the first two-and-a-half episodes.

Someone scripted a full hour of Cassian Andor walking purposefully to nowhere in particular, a space dog pissing on his droid, and the hundred other nonevents of the first three episodes.  The editors can only work with what the writers write and the director shoots.

At least the pace is picking up and the story's got a sense of direction to it now.

(As for the Imperials fighting arseholes... yeah, this one's very much Evil vs. Evil.  That was on the table going in, considering Cassian's speech in Rogue One about having done terrible things for the Rebellion.  It's also probably the single biggest factor setting this apart from regular Star Wars.  Nobody's a Chosen Hero of Ultimate Destiny occupying an unassailable position on the Moral High Ground against the Dark Lord and the Forces of Evil.  This is a bunch of pissed-off wasters, losers, joe averages, and other randos vs. a pack of mid-level bureaucrats, functionaries, and gofers who are less Lords of Darkness than Assistant Chamberlains of that buzzing noise the office's flourescent lights make when they're going bad.)

[jvmacross]

Wonder what the odds are of an Emperor Palpatine appearance in Andor?  It would seem Luthen and Palpatine would have crossed paths at some point with Luthen being an "Art Dealer" and Palpatine being what seemed like an Art Collector...

[Bolt]

53 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Wonder what the odds are of an Emperor Palpatine appearance in Andor?  It would seem Luthen and Palpatine would have crossed paths at some point with Luthen being an "Art Dealer" and Palpatine being what seemed like an Art Collector...

I expect several cameos. It wouldn't be Disney , otherwise. 

[Seto Kaiba]

Palpatine's already promoted himself to Emperor Palpatine at this point, right?  I can't see the Imperial head of state going anywhere without it being kind of a major production.  

If they were to throw in a big name Imperial art aficionado visitor to Luthen's gallery as an easter egg, why not someone a bit lower down like Admiral Thrawn?  If memory serves, he spent quite a bit of the trilogy named for him sitting in an art gallery on his flagship.  Or maybe Governor Tarkin.  He seems like he'd be Wicked Cultured and they've done that kinda-frightening CG recreation of Peter Cushing's face for Rogue One.

[Duke Togo]

I know this show isn’t working completely for some of you, but the more I see of it the more I love it. This show has the best writing for anything Star Wars-related since Empire.

Was talking with a guy at work who is a little older than me who grew up with the OT like I did. He’s of a similar mind as I am: Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie since the OT and Andor is just more of that, but even better.

[azrael]

I wouldn't want to see Palpatine that much or he should be used appropriately. So when it pertains to Mon Mothma and the Senate as a whole would be where I expect the character to show up. Anywhere else would seem out of place (Like Vader. He should only show up when Jedi are causing more trouble than Inquisitors can handle or something close to the Emperor's chest comes up, i.e., the Death Star. Anywhere else would feel inconsistent).

3 hours ago, Duke Togo said:

... This show has the best writing for anything Star Wars-related since Empire.

That's nice. Me? I’m looking at this show as a whole and there are still 8 more episodes this season and a second season still coming. There's still plenty of time to nose-dive or completely hit it out of the park so I'll touch on this once we get there. But its beginning took way too long to get to this week. At least they released the first 3 episodes in one blast or that would have really have turned me off by the time we got to Episode 4.

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

I expect several cameos. It wouldn't be Disney , otherwise. 

I wouldn't mind seeing Luthen getting force fried at the end of the series when Palpatine uncovers his "old friend's" involvement with the rebellion....during his interrogation Palpatine discovers Mon Mothma's role as well....leading her to barely escape when the Empire issues her arrest...which then leads to the elimination of the Imperial Senate as mentioned in Ep 4...

I know Andor is supposed to be cool because of minimal fanservice...but I think the Emperor's appearances makes any Star Wars show better...Ian McDiarmid isn't getting any younger....want to see him portray the Emperor one more time...he always seems up to playing the role

[Dobber]

1 hour ago, Duke Togo said:

I know this show isn’t working completely for some of you, but the more I see of it the more I love it. This show has the best writing for anything Star Wars-related since Empire.

Was talking with a guy at work who is a little older than me who grew up with the OT like I did. He’s of a similar mind as I am: Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie since the OT and Andor is just more of that, but even better.

I’m in agreement thus far…but as Azrael said….Disney does have time to screw up. I’m hoping it won’t as I’m really liking this more “mature” Star Wars.

Chris

[Bolt]

35 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Palpatine discovers Mon Mothma's role as well...

Yes. I expect this series is where we see Mon Mothma escape and go into hiding with the rebellion. And Where Bale Organa's death sentence is revealed. Additionally, I imagine we will be  introduced to K2SO and Andor will reprogram him. 

[Seto Kaiba]

I'd prefer to keep any and all Force users at arm's length from Andor.

One of the things that makes Rogue One and Andor more compelling as entries in the Star Wars metaseries is the absence of the usual iconic space wizards and all their nattering on about things they've foreseen, their destiny, and the Will of the Force.  IMO, the protagonists (and antagonists) in these stories are a good deal more relatable and interesting if they're just regular people instead of space magic precognative laser sword one man armies.  The characters also feel like they have a lot more agency in the story without all the Force's preordained baggage.

TBH, I've never particularly cared for the way Star Wars's main films treat the Jedi and Sith like they're action figures the Force is shuffling around from one fated encounter to the next.  Like, the Jedi and Sith's trust in the Force is practically kayfabe.  They know their lives are scripted but try to act like there are actual stakes involved.

Andor has finally started to assemble some interesting characters, but the writing needs some serious TLC.  If they'd run this one out one episode at a time, they wouldn't have had an audience left by the time the story starts moving 20 minutes into episode 3.  Right now, the story's kind of bloated, unwieldy, and slow.  It's gradually picking up the pace but the series feels like it kind of resents the director putting the spurs to it.  I'm still looking forward to episode 5, in no small part because that should prove a lot more energetic than the rest of the series thus far.

[azrael]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Yes. I expect this series is where we see Mon Mothma escape and go into hiding with the rebellion. And Where Bale Organa's death sentence is revealed. Additionally, I imagine we will be  introduced to K2SO and Andor will reprogram him. 

Concerning Mon Mothma,

Spoiler

It's hinted already this week when they show that she has new driver escorting her so she knows she's being watched. It should lead into Rebels S3 Episode 18. I would expect this show to show her speaking out in the open Senate against the Empire which would then lead into that episode of Rebels.

Concerning K2SO,

Spoiler

Adam Tudyk already said he wasn't contacted about this season but never said he wasn't coming back. I expect Mr. Tudyk to reprise the role for Season 2 so that's still a ways away.

 

[sh9000]

https://www.starwars.com/news/alan-tudyk-to-return-as-k-2so-in-cassian-andor-live-action-series

The first post in the Star Wars Disney+ thread had an article from the Star Wars site in 2019 stating that Alan Tudyk will return as K-2SO.

https://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/topic/46582-star-wars-disney-limited-tv-series/

The force could be mentioned in Andor like in Rogue One.

 

 

[Duke Togo]

21 hours ago, Dobber said:

I’m in agreement thus far…but as Azrael said….Disney does have time to screw up. I’m hoping it won’t as I’m really liking this more “mature” Star Wars.

Chris

‘Andor’: Tony Gilroy Says Lucasfilm Left Them To Do the Show They Wanted

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, Duke Togo said:

‘Andor’: Tony Gilroy Says Lucasfilm Left Them To Do the Show They Wanted

Didn't they also let Rian Johnson do the  Star Wars movie he wanted? 

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, jvmacross said:

Didn't they also let Rian Johnson do the  Star Wars movie he wanted? 

Apparently so ! And he's still patting himself on the back .

[Duke Togo]

So, what will it be, then? Disney is going to screw it up, or Disney isn’t hands on enough?

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, jvmacross said:

Didn't they also let Rian Johnson do the  Star Wars movie he wanted? 

In theory.

In practice, not so much.  After all, he was obliged to build his film on the foundations previously laid by J.J. Abrams' underwhelming The Force Awakens using the same characters and continue the plot he'd already set in motion.  

He was allowed to make the Star Wars movie he wanted*... as long as it did so within very narrow guidelines, using characters and set pieces already established by someone else, to satisfy the demands of a studio that was worried after The Force Awakens was criticized for being "too safe" and too derivative of previous films.

I would assume Andor's showrunners have a somewhat freer hand since only a few cast members are playing established characters and Cassian's backstory is one big blank.

 

1 hour ago, Duke Togo said:

So, what will it be, then? Disney is going to screw it up, or Disney isn’t hands on enough?

Given that the sequel trilogy ended up a mess because Disney tried to be hands-off and then panicked and got super hands-on, I am not sure I would be prepared to label those as mutually exclusive possibilities.

 

* Terms, Conditions, Limitations, Waivers, Exceptions, Notes, Footnotes, Subordinate Clauses, and Managerial Because-I-Say-So's may apply.

[derex3592]

Hindsight being 20/20, it might have been interesting to see what Johnson would have done given command over the whole sequel trilogy from the get go and more free reign with the scripts. He's obviously not a bad director.  

Haven't started Andor yet, but I'm going to dive in this week hopefully. 

[Bolt]

9 hours ago, derex3592 said:

Hindsight being 20/20, it might have been interesting to see what Johnson would have done given command over the whole sequel trilogy from the get go and more free reign with the scripts. He's obviously not a bad director. 

That is a fair point. 

[Big s]

I really don’t think the directors or actors are to blame for any blunders after the prequels were made. Most of the problems seem to be either the writers, editors, or producers or a combo of those.  I honestly can’t blame the actors since they’ve been good with the given material and the directors are pretty good at getting the actors to act and getting the scenes done. Even something like that boba Fett scene where the scooter guy does the stupid spin may have been something in a scene that was shot in different ways and some producer said they like the spin or even had it added later.

[MikeRoz]

Finally had a chance to watch the four episodes of this currently available.

Six whole years ago, I wandered in slightly late to a showing of Rogue One in theaters. The early parts of that movie featured our now-titular hero skulking about with a blaster and using it very early on to let us know that he was not your typical goody-good Star Wars protagonist. These scenes reminded me of another non-Star Wars show I had on my mind at the time: Homeland. While I appreciated Rogue One for what it was, I still was left thinking to myself "They should make a Star Wars show like Homeland." A scene of Carrie hiding from a lone guy with a gun could have as much or more tension as any of Rogue One's big, bombastic scenes. There's a great show to be made if they lean into the espionage angle and keep the mind-reading space wizards off-screen doing other important things elsewhere. 

A while back when they announced they'd be making Andor, I thought "Oh cool, they're making that show I wished for." Or are they?

Spoiler

I'm going to be somewhat critical in here because the headlines I'd all seen to this point were all quite generous in their praise regarding this show. This will likely be one of the best Star Wars thing to come out of Disney, maybe even the best, but because it's so close and yet so far from something I'd been secretly wishing for, I'm going to criticize...

1. The pacing is so clearly made for the current streaming/binging age and not at all what you'd expect from a traditional show. The first three episodes operate best as one giant episode - which is fine when done correctly, but in this case, the first two episodes just kind of end, usually with Cassian walking off to go do something else. I'm not going to say that any of the material was superfluous, it just seems awkwardly split into episodes. Maybe it would have worked better as a pair/trio of movies?
2. The over-zealous rent-a-cop is not who I would have picked to be Cassian's nemesis. My hopes were raised by the introduction of the ISB roundtable, but the fact that Cassian spared him and the fact we see his slap/hug reunion with his mom worries me that he'll still somehow be relevant going forward. I was briefly worried that he was going to turn out to be an undercover ISB agent of some sort, but that feeling passed.
3. We're dropped immediately from the big set-piece finale of episode 3 into the prep for a heist - which we already know has the set-pieces of a planetary alignment and a fantastic meteor shower. Do we have enough episodes for us to have story left after the heist, or is this it for the season? And didn't we just do a heist story in Solo?
4. The ladder-climbing ISB lady doesn't even have the Cassandra Truth trope (notably used in espionage shows like 24 and Homeland) going for her. Hers is a reasonable but ultimately wrong supposition, because Cassian wasn't a part of any Rebel group when he stole the box. I still hope she proves to be a more worthy nemesis than the corporate cop guy.

There is so much they could be mining for content in this setting:

1. The descent of a formerly democratic society into fascism.
2. Orwellian surveillance (they've touched on this, remains to be seen whether they take it further).
3. The tension that arises from knowing that anyone could be a Rebel agent or an ISB agent.

Instead, for the first three episodes, we get an origin story within our origin story, and for the latter half we get a heist story. Not of any specifically damaging or strategically important intel or technology, but of money. 

 

[Big s]

2 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

Finally had a chance to watch the four episodes of this currently available.

Six whole years ago, I wandered in slightly late to a showing of Rogue One in theaters. The early parts of that movie featured our now-titular hero skulking about with a blaster and using it very early on to let us know that he was not your typical goody-good Star Wars protagonist. These scenes reminded me of another non-Star Wars show I had on my mind at the time: Homeland. While I appreciated Rogue One for what it was, I still was left thinking to myself "They should make a Star Wars show like Homeland." A scene of Carrie hiding from a lone guy with a gun could have as much or more tension as any of Rogue One's big, bombastic scenes. There's a great show to be made if they lean into the espionage angle and keep the mind-reading space wizards off-screen doing other important things elsewhere. 

A while back when they announced they'd be making Andor, I thought "Oh cool, they're making that show I wished for." Or are they?

  Hide contents

I'm going to be somewhat critical in here because the headlines I'd all seen to this point were all quite generous in their praise regarding this show. This will likely be one of the best Star Wars thing to come out of Disney, maybe even the best, but because it's so close and yet so far from something I'd been secretly wishing for, I'm going to criticize...

1. The pacing is so clearly made for the current streaming/binging age and not at all what you'd expect from a traditional show. The first three episodes operate best as one giant episode - which is fine when done correctly, but in this case, the first two episodes just kind of end, usually with Cassian walking off to go do something else. I'm not going to say that any of the material was superfluous, it just seems awkwardly split into episodes. Maybe it would have worked better as a pair/trio of movies?
2. The over-zealous rent-a-cop is not who I would have picked to be Cassian's nemesis. My hopes were raised by the introduction of the ISB roundtable, but the fact that Cassian spared him and the fact we see his slap/hug reunion with his mom worries me that he'll still somehow be relevant going forward. I was briefly worried that he was going to turn out to be an undercover ISB agent of some sort, but that feeling passed.
3. We're dropped immediately from the big set-piece finale of episode 3 into the prep for a heist - which we already know has the set-pieces of a planetary alignment and a fantastic meteor shower. Do we have enough episodes for us to have story left after the heist, or is this it for the season? And didn't we just do a heist story in Solo?
4. The ladder-climbing ISB lady doesn't even have the Cassandra Truth trope (notably used in espionage shows like 24 and Homeland) going for her. Hers is a reasonable but ultimately wrong supposition, because Cassian wasn't a part of any Rebel group when he stole the box. I still hope she proves to be a more worthy nemesis than the corporate cop guy.

There is so much they could be mining for content in this setting:

1. The descent of a formerly democratic society into fascism.
2. Orwellian surveillance (they've touched on this, remains to be seen whether they take it further).
3. The tension that arises from knowing that anyone could be a Rebel agent or an ISB agent.

Instead, for the first three episodes, we get an origin story within our origin story, and for the latter half we get a heist story. Not of any specifically damaging or strategically important intel or technology, but of money. 

 

To be fair in The Clem shows defense, they aren’t just taking a little cash but enough to practically collapse a government and possibly support a rebellion 

[Seto Kaiba]

19 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

We're dropped immediately from the big set-piece finale of episode 3 into the prep for a heist - which we already know has the set-pieces of a planetary alignment and a fantastic meteor shower. Do we have enough episodes for us to have story left after the heist, or is this it for the season?

Signs point to "Yes, we have enough episodes to have plenty of story left after the heist".

Andor season one has been announced as having twelve episodes.  If the series started as it meant to go on, that's four three-episode story arcs. 

Showrunner Tony Gilroy confirmed that the series will have two seasons with the second building up to the events of Rogue One.  (Based on my research, they were originally going to do as many as five seasons but scaled it back for feasibility reasons.)

 

19 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

And didn't we just do a heist story in Solo?

We did, but it was crap.  

Mind you, the stakes are a lot higher in Andor than they were in Solo: a Star Wars Story.  Vel's team are trying to make off with the quarterly Imperial payroll for an entire sector so the money can fund the rebellion instead.

[MikeRoz]

42 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Andor season one has been announced as having twelve episodes.  If the series started as it meant to go on, that's four three-episode story arcs. 

That's good - but now I'm struggling even more to see how they're going to drag the rent-a-cop through more arcs. 

 

43 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Mind you, the stakes are a lot higher in Andor than they were in Solo: a Star Wars Story.  Vel's team are trying to make off with the quarterly Imperial payroll for an entire sector so the money can fund the rebellion instead.

That sounds impressive, but someone without much knowledge of US economics and demographics might be impressed if I tell them I'm going to steal the Federal government's entire quarterly payroll for North Dakota (when other states or even cities would be comparatively much more impressive targets). As a casual viewer and student of some of the good parts of a now-defunct EU, I have no idea exactly how big a deal that's supposed to be.

But if it's only one of four stories we're getting this season (and thus two remaining), I tentatively withdraw my complaint, and I look forward to seeing how the Lord Walder's ISB gets pulled into the mix.

[Seto Kaiba]

32 minutes ago, MikeRoz said:

That's good - but now I'm struggling even more to see how they're going to drag the rent-a-cop through more arcs. 

Unless Lt. Meero drags him out of "retirement" to spite her rival Lt. Blevin, I doubt he'll be back.  

He seems like less of a main antagonist and more of a warmup boss.  He wasn't evil, or even malicious.  He was just an officious twit in WAY over his head.

 

32 minutes ago, MikeRoz said:

That sounds impressive, but someone without much knowledge of US economics and demographics might be impressed if I tell them I'm going to steal the Federal government's entire quarterly payroll for North Dakota (when other states or even cities would be comparatively much more impressive targets). As a casual viewer and student of some of the good parts of a now-defunct EU, I have no idea exactly how big a deal that's supposed to be.

As someone with even less experience with the EU, I'm in the same boat if not worse.

I have no idea what the approximate buying power of a "credit" is in usable terms.  What I've sussed out from dialog is that a thousand or so credits is some serious walkin' around money.  Cassian was willing to pay 700 credits to be smuggled offworld no questions asked to beat a murder rap.  Luke claimed that 10,000 credits was nearly enough to buy your own ship (I'd assume that he meant used) and 17,000 for covert passage to Alderaan was apparently so good that Han dropped his demand for cash upfront on his already quite ludicrous quote.  Cassian agrees to sell "the box" to Luthen for 40,000, which is clearly a HUGE sum of money in context and Cassian is totally bemused when he's offered a further 1,000 just for the story of how he got it.  Luthen then offers him five times that apparently princely sum (a whopping 200,000) just to assist in the heist, which would suggest the amount they're stealing must be pretty freaking enormous for an amount that large to be unmissed.

(A quick Google search suggests it's quite the princely sum indeed... twice the price of a brand new ship of the Millennium Falcon's class, or enough to buy a new X-Wing.)

 

32 minutes ago, MikeRoz said:

But if it's only one of four stories we're getting this season (and thus two remaining), I tentatively withdraw my complaint, and I look forward to seeing how the Lord Walder's ISB gets pulled into the mix.

We've seen Saw Gererra and others in the teasers for this first season, so I'd assume there'd have to be at least one more story arc after this one just to accommodate them since they're not part of this one.

[Bolt]

I would hope we're done with wanna be ISB. He brought the empire into the mix directly, he served his purpose, as far as writing goes. At most , i could see him becoming a vigilante or an outlaw seeking revenge. At this point.  Of course he would die. 
But there's plenty of other interesting stuff to get into with this series..

[Duke Togo]

9 hours ago, MikeRoz said:

But if it's only one of four stories we're getting this season (and thus two remaining), I tentatively withdraw my complaint, and I look forward to seeing how the Lord Walder's ISB gets pulled into the mix.

He played Qyburn, not Walter Frey.