Andor (Star Wars: Andor) - Disney+

[sh9000]

Special Look.

[Duke Togo]

I rewatched the season 2 trailer and, ya know, I actually kind of like it now.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, sh9000 said:

Special Look.

Sounds like they've gone to quite extraordinary lengths to make the second season a suitable lead in to Rogue One.

That said, I'm hoping we see a LOT less of Mon Mothma unless the writers have finally resigned themselves to making her matter to the story.  The story's past the point where it needs the Rebellion's obstructive bureaucrat to complain about the heroes getting results.

[TangledThorns]

17 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Sounds like they've gone to quite extraordinary lengths to make the second season a suitable lead in to Rogue One.

That said, I'm hoping we see a LOT less of Mon Mothma unless the writers have finally resigned themselves to making her matter to the story.  The story's past the point where it needs the Rebellion's obstructive bureaucrat to complain about the heroes getting results.

I actually like Mon Mothma and hope she gets a spin off series that takes around the trilogy up to ROTJ. Female leaders can have a purpose ya know.

[Seto Kaiba]

28 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

I actually like Mon Mothma and hope she gets a spin off series that takes around the trilogy up to ROTJ.

Considering what we see of her in shows set during the Rebellion, that sounds incredibly boring.

Who's going to tune in to a series about a sheltered 1%-er politician clutching her pearls every five minutes because the rest of the Rebellion actually wants to fight the Empire not bury it in sternly worded letters of protest?

 

28 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

Female leaders can have a purpose ya know.

Absolutely they can.  Absolutely they do.  Princess Leia Organa, Hera Syndulla, Ahsoka Tano, Ursa Wren, and many others in Star Wars attest to that fact.

Mon Mothma's just, y'know, not one.  Like Duchess Satine from The Clone Wars, she's presented as a painfully naive and sheltered idealist so out of touch with reality that her own faction regards her as a liability and an obstacle to be worked around not as someone to take guidance from.  The actual rebel leaders don't respect her.  We see that many times, in Andor, in Rebels, and even after the war in Ahsoka.  She's a figurehead who doesn't realize she's just a figurehead.  The token politician from the deposed government the rebels keep around so they can claim to be a continuation of the previous government in exile.  Even then, she wasn't their first choice... they had the vastly more effective Bail Organa in their corner before A New Hope.  

[TangledThorns]

46 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Absolutely they can.  Absolutely they do.  Princess Leia Organa, Hera Syndulla, Ahsoka Tano, Ursa Wren, and many others in Star Wars attest to that fact.

Mon Mothma's just, y'know, not one.  Like Duchess Satine from The Clone Wars, she's presented as a painfully naive and sheltered idealist so out of touch with reality that her own faction regards her as a liability and an obstacle to be worked around not as someone to take guidance from.  The actual rebel leaders don't respect her.  We see that many times, in Andor, in Rebels, and even after the war in Ahsoka.  She's a figurehead who doesn't realize she's just a figurehead.  The token politician from the deposed government the rebels keep around so they can claim to be a continuation of the previous government in exile.  Even then, she wasn't their first choice... they had the vastly more effective Bail Organa in their corner before A New Hope.  

 

Cringe. Well, tell the writers a female character in Star Wars can't be a strong leader without a blaster or a light saber, lol.

 

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

34 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

Cringe. Well, tell the writers a female character in Star Wars can't be a strong leader without a blaster or a light saber, lol.

Padme Amidala did a pretty fine job of it throughout The Clone Wars series.  There were a few others in that series as one-shot or minor recurring characters.  Not a lot of politics after the prequel era tho, so that is kind of a narrow category.

In all seriousness, Mon Mothma's not written as a strong leader in any of the shows.  She's written to be a narrative speedbump.  In both Andor and Rebels, she's written to be the authority figure who's bitterly opposed to whatever action the protagonists need to take to win the day.  She's a plot device to jack up the tension by having the protagonists either go anyway against orders with the threat of having to face the music later or lose time trying to convince her so they make a last-second dramatic entry to save the day.  Ahsoka makes her explicitly a very weak political leader, who both spearheaded the disarmament that let the First Order rise to power in the first place and failed to address the issues in the Republic's system of governance that caused the Old Republic to fall apart years earlier.

[pengbuzz]

21 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Padme Amidala did a pretty fine job of it throughout The Clone Wars series.  There were a few others in that series as one-shot or minor recurring characters.  Not a lot of politics after the prequel era tho, so that is kind of a narrow category.

In all seriousness, Mon Mothma's not written as a strong leader in any of the shows.  She's written to be a narrative speedbump.  In both Andor and Rebels, she's written to be the authority figure who's bitterly opposed to whatever action the protagonists need to take to win the day.  She's a plot device to jack up the tension by having the protagonists either go anyway against orders with the threat of having to face the music later or lose time trying to convince her so they make a last-second dramatic entry to save the day.  Ahsoka makes her explicitly a very weak political leader, who both spearheaded the disarmament that let the First Order rise to power in the first place and failed to address the issues in the Republic's system of governance that caused the Old Republic to fall apart years earlier.

And basically crap-sacks Mon Mothma from Rogue One and RotJ; unless I missed something in either film, she wasn't the wet dramatic blanket that Andor and Ahsoka make her out as.

 

Edited Thursday at 08:23 PM by pengbuzz

[Seto Kaiba]

36 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

And basically crap-sacks Mon Mothma from Rogue One and RotJ; unless I missed something in either film, she wasn't the wet dramatic blanket that Andor and Ahsoka make her out as.

She's barely in Return of the Jedi, but even in Rogue One she's stuck in the role of the naively idealistic rebel figurehead whose role in the story is to propose a course of action that obviously won't work and then be ignored by the other rebel leaders. 

If they're gonna go to the expense of having the actress show up, at least do something interesting with the character right?  She's worth more than just being a narrative speed bump.

[Duke Togo]

Just watching some highlights from season 1, and man, does this show get things 1,000 times more than Filoni's Rebels cartoon ever did. Even if season 2 is only half as good and season 1, it'll be miles beyond most Star Wars productions in the past 40 years.

[Duke Togo]

I am going to start a rewatch of season 1 in the next few days. I think what they're done with Andor is just brilliant. These characters had to crawl, these characters had to walk, for Luke Skywalker to get the chance to run. And no other production--not the prequels, not the cartoons--has come close to making us understand that as Rogue One and Andor has. They've made the original Star Wars better, which is no small feat.

Edited Friday at 02:10 AM by Duke Togo

[Duke Togo]

Man, what Saw says in the trailer, "Remember this moment... you're here, you're right here, and you're ready to fight," I feel it.

[seti88]

Andor feels like a proper star wars prequel...all the settings make sense and you get that sense of what the rebellion is all about, and what the empire is...

just imagining if anakin were as adult as cassian and struggled through difficult experiences (more in the sense of helping others and failing, yes there was the catalyst of his mother), and in the end defected to the dark side..

more poignant and meaningful...ehh..i shld stop thinking of what might have been... 

but back to andor...i was a fan of season one and looking forward to season two..

 

Edited Friday at 02:43 AM by seti88

[Duke Togo]

20 minutes ago, seti88 said:

just imagining if anakin were

Don't, just don't. It's not worth it. Take what you enjoy and discard the rest.

[seti88]

3 hours ago, Duke Togo said:

Don't, just don't. It's not worth it. Take what you enjoy and discard the rest.

got it sinsei...

enjoy life.

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, seti88 said:

Andor feels like a proper star wars prequel...all the settings make sense and you get that sense of what the rebellion is all about, and what the empire is...

Andor is, at least IMO, the finest writing Star Wars has ever had.

Star Wars has always had an element of sociopolitical commentary to it, but usually it's either too subtle and easy for the audience to miss entirely (as in the OT) or so hamfisted that it's impossible to take seriously (as in the prequels).  Andor, though... Andor does it at a level that rivals the very best other, more overtly politial, titles like Star Trek have done and it's amazing.

Not only is it a proper exploration of what drives people to join the galactic civil war, it spans multiple levels of society and both sides of the conflict.  It shows how people on the fringes of Imperial society like Cassian struggle to live and are forced into increasingly desperate situations by the Empire's repressive policies, but it also explores how regular workaday folks like Brasso and Bix cope with the slow loss of liberties as the Empire's policies get more restrictive until society as a whole becomes a powder keg.  The show's villains are not cackling dark sorcerers, they're just committed civil servants who are just trying to do their jobs.  Syril Karn and Dedra Meero's obsessive belief in justice ends up driving them to commit all kinds of personal and societal harms and make a bad situation worse.  Then, we have social elites like Mon Mothma or Luthen Rael, both of whom benefit from the Empire, but where Mon Mothma is a coward unwilling to risk upsetting the status quo by doing anything more than performative opposition to the Empire Luthen is perhaps TOO willing to burn it all down to show his contempt for the system.

The critique of several current political and cultural instutions is downright blistering and very effective as a result.

 

13 hours ago, seti88 said:

just imagining if anakin were as adult as cassian and struggled through difficult experiences (more in the sense of helping others and failing, yes there was the catalyst of his mother), and in the end defected to the dark side..

On the other hand, what if Cassian talked for a while about how much he doesn't like sand? 🤣