Andor (Star Wars: Andor) - Disney+

[Big s]

5 hours ago, azrael said:

That does relate my primary complaint about this season; wasted time, like the first 2 episodes. Because next season will be covering the 4 years leading up to Rogue One, I imagine there will be less fluff. But because of that, they might be packin 'em in each episode.

I hope so. The fluff stuff is where my major complaint is with the show, cut that and make stormtroopers even a bit menacing and it would be a great show 

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, Big s said:

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I was hoping for some competent storm troopers, but like all Star Wars, they’re failures. Even the death troopers sucked. At least the trooper that got knocked out didn’t get ko’ed by a slap but I feel like their armor is and always will be useless. I was kinda surprised it took so long to shut down that message when it started talking trash about the empire.

In all fairness, they do a better-than-usual job this time around.

How much of that is because of how little they're in the actual episode vs. their foes having no weapons and being able to fight from secure positions is debatable. 

 

13 hours ago, Big s said:

Spoiler

guess we gotta wait til next season to find out about Andor’s sister. That and the will they won’t they situation with the antagonists.

Spoiler

Didn't Maarva say she and everyone else on that planet is dead?

 

13 hours ago, Big s said:

Spoiler

I’m pretty sure no one was surprised by what that part went to at the end, but it was still fun to see

I was... but then, I'm not exactly a Star Wars fan so maybe I'm "no one" for the purposes of that topic. 

During the prison arc episodes, I was looking around YouTube on the assumption that it was obvious to everyone but the non-fans and got told stuff like that it was a probe droid's chassis or a TIE Fighter wing frame.

[Big s]

24 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

How much of that is because of how little they're in the actual episode vs. their foes having no weapons and being able to fight from secure positions is debatable. 

They weren’t completely unarmed 

Spoiler

That guy was wielding Andor’s mom pretty well to bash some heads

 

[Mog]

Brasso also

Spoiler

head-butted one of the poor Stormies silly too, though.

 

[TehPW]

Space: Andor!

 

Of course, it's from the Auronauts... LOL....

[Roy Focker]

Too be fair there was only a handful of Stormtroopers present compared to the dozens of Army/Security Troopers.

[TehPW]

3 minutes ago, Chunky001 said:

Look to the "Lone Survivor" situation. Four SEALS (Storm Troopers) battled up to 200 armed, combat experienced locals that held the high ground killing approx 50 of them.

I've done a lot of training with SF guys. Their ability to effectively direct violence is terrifying and awe inspiring to see. 

Six through twelve Storm Troopers would be absolutely unstoppable against "towns folk" as depicted in the last episode. The town folk would have been slaughtered as fast as the Storm Troopers could pull the trigger.

Storm Troopers have to be neutered for all of the Star Wars stories to happen. That would hold true even if they didn't have armor. Which they do.

The violence has to be neutered, based on the intended audience i.e. Its not Kenner Toys bank rolling the show, its Tacos, cars (and maybe feminine hygiene products)... Could you imagine a R-rated original trilogy (id rather have 1~3 mind you)? Actually rated R WOULD BE more like the Auronauts Trilogy... 😃

[Mog]

I always enjoyed how Clone Captain Rex utterly despised the Stormtrooper armor.

0:59 mark:

Offers no protection and hinders your ability to shoot straight. . . unless it’s Rebel trooper cannon fodder.

[sh9000]

https://www.starwars.com/news/tony-gilroy-andor-season-1-interview

 

[Roy Focker]

4 hours ago, Chunky001 said:

My point exactly. Storm Troopers are neutered for the audience and to keep the story going. How far would Han, Luke, Ben and Chewy have gotten on the Death Star in Star Wars if Storm Troopers weren't hamstrung? The answer is not far at all. They would have been hunted down and killed or captured in no time. Movie over.

Ewok's against Storm Troopers? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

In Andor these crack assault troopers should have been cleaning house. I've only watched it once. Maybe half of them were taken out early and were spending most of the time protecting the Officers?

One the first Death Star Stormtrooper were under orders to let the escape so they could be tracked to the Rebel base.

I've got no defense against the Ewoks. By that time Star Wars was a juggernaut beloved by little kids. We just have to have Care Bears winning the day. Now there maybe one good explanation. The Empire's lack the resources. Storm Troopers above all else were created first to be absolutely loyal to the emperor. When the first Death Star was destroyed so were all the Empire's most promising leaders and soldiers.  Among them were countless Stormtroopers. Those controlling the Death Star could have easily taken over the Empire. Unless the emperor filled it with enough loyal Stormtroopers to ensure nobody decided to betray him. By ESB you've got idiots like Admiral Ozzel in command and the legion of the emperor's best troops aren't really the best. Those guys died at Yavin. These guys at Endor are just blood thirsty zealots, with basic training and fancy armor. The Empire lost the entire war at Yavin. If every planet decided to rebel it wouldn't be able to stop them. They were just too fearful of wraith of Palpatine to rebel in mass.

In Andor I do like how the named good guys die when blasters start firing.  In all other Star Wars when someone tries to do something heroic, they succeed. Here when somebody decides to leave cover to run across the battlefield to aide a fallen comrade without covering fire - They die. 

[Big s]

As far as the storm troopers, I wish they were used better. It’s just bad writing, but it’s been an issue since the beginning of Star Wars. I really was hoping for better here, but didn’t expect it. The death troopers are the real let down. Those are supposed to be super elite troops. So far the most competent of the troops in Andor have been the shore troopers. I still think the one that arrested Andor was the best at his job and deserves a promotion 

[Seto Kaiba]

So... help a filthy casual out here.

Is there any kind of in-universe reason ever given for why Stormtroopers are so bad at their one job?

The only thing I can recall ever being said about it apart from the aforementioned Stormtroopers on the Death Star in A New Hope were under orders from Tarkin to let the rebels go is when, in the same movie, Luke mentions he can't see a thing in his stolen helmet.

It makes sense for Stormtroopers to struggle against highly-trained rebel troops, crack shots, and guys who literally have Fate on their side... but up against regular joes they ought to give a way better showing as elite troops.

[Bolt]

7 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Is there any kind of in-universe reason ever given for why Stormtroopers are so bad at their one job?

It's canon..🤷

Did you catch that scene in The Mandalorian when the speeder bike guys are practice shooting? Terrible and ineffective (most of the time) Storm troopers are built into the physics of SW.. 

[hutch]

A long time ago (before the prequels) I remember some assertion that the Storm Troopers were clones and were so far removed from the original source material at that point that their abilities had deteriorated, but I think stories since then have sort of done away with that theory. 

[Axelay]

OK, I have questions about loose ends... I'm not expecting answers to most of these, but it's more a matter of whether or not anyone else is also wondering about these same items.

Spoiler

- So what's the connection -if any - to the (mining) disaster on Kennari? Why were the Separatists there? Does this mean that the mining operation was a Republic site?

- We don't know what Bix told the interrogators. I am extremely curious to know if she ultimately gave up Luthen and we just don't see it happen.

- Still want to know who Uncle Harlo is... maybe not consequential. I totally get that not everybody in Star Wars has to be "somebody." Syril's storyline did NOT go the way I expected. I honestly thought he was going to feel so jilted that he was going to go suicide bomber on the ISB HQ.

- No hints as to where/how Luthen got his kyber necklace...

- Interesting that Luthen's ship has a full stealth suite. No transponder, and full sensor masking, I assume. Seems to fit the profile of an intelligence operator or bounty hunter.

- How did Cinta get off of Aldhani?

- Anybody else notice the unarmed civilians taking down the Death Troopers during the riot? I actually laughed out loud at that one. That's gotta suck when you're supposed to be like an Imperial Green Beret and you get ganked like that.

- My assumption is that Syril is now going to be taken onboard by the ISB. (Which I kind of cringe about.) Wonder if he'll bring Mosk with him?

- I wonder if next season will show how Saw Gerrera came to be so debilitated by the time of Rogue One?

Eh, just randomly thinking.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, Axelay said:

OK, I have questions about loose ends... I'm not expecting answers to most of these, but it's more a matter of whether or not anyone else is also wondering about these same items.

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- So what's the connection -if any - to the (mining) disaster on Kennari? Why were the Separatists there? Does this mean that the mining operation was a Republic site?

It's unexplained, but...

Spoiler

... there are a few hints in Andor that suggest something untoward happened on Kenari and that the official story that it was abandoned after a mining accident is a coverup for something more heinous that hasn't been elabored upon yet.

According to StarWars.com, Cassian was 9 when Clem and Maarva Andor "rescued" him from Kenari.  Since the same material suggests he's supposed to be 26 during the events of Rogue One, that would imply that the flashbacks occur 17 years before Rogue One.  There are two things odd there right off the bat.  The first is that Maarva's little band of scavengers are worried about a Republic frigate entering orbit and the second being that the crashed ship was crewed by Separtists two years after the Clone Wars ended.  It seems unlikely that the crew's highlighter yellow coloration is entirely natural too... it's possible they were carrying biological or chemical weapons, which may be the reason the planet was permanently quarantined.

Maarva implies that she tried to have Cassian keep his Kenari origins a secret even before it became a matter tying him to a double homicide too, which suggests that there was something truly off about Kenari's circumstances before it was abandoned.

The official record is that there was an Imperial mining operation there and that it was abandoned after some kind of accident so severe and hazardous that the planet was declared off-limits entirely.

 

Spoiler

1 minute ago, Axelay said:

- We don't know what Bix told the interrogators. I am extremely curious to know if she ultimately gave up Luthen and we just don't see it happen.

Spoiler

Given that everyone is focused on catching Cassian and ONLY Cassian, the ISB doesn't seem to have figured out who Luthen is yet.  She may not actually know who Luthen is, or may have met an intermediary instead like his shopkeeper or some other middleman.

Cassian's small fry compared to "Axis".

 

1 minute ago, Axelay said:

- Still want to know who Uncle Harlo is... maybe not consequential. I totally get that not everybody in Star Wars has to be "somebody." Syril's storyline did NOT go the way I expected. I honestly thought he was going to feel so jilted that he was going to go suicide bomber on the ISB HQ.

Spoiler

Whoever "Uncle Harlo" is, he's clearly a man of some influence if he could bend enough ears to get a disgraced ex-rent-a-cop like Syril a no-questions-asked job at an Imperial administrative/regulatory bureau.  That presumably takes some pull.

I know I'm probably wrong, but I half suspect that "Harlo" is Major Partagaz's first name.

 

1 minute ago, Axelay said:

- No hints as to where/how Luthen got his kyber necklace...

Spoiler

Well, he is an antiquities dealer to the great and good of the galactic capital... 

A bit of Google-fu suggests it's a very old antique indeed... possibly 25,000 years old or more, though the only articles I can find on the "Rakata" are non-canonical but it was connected to fighting them off and the internet tells me that was 25,000+ years ago.

 

1 minute ago, Axelay said:

- Interesting that Luthen's ship has a full stealth suite. No transponder, and full sensor masking, I assume. Seems to fit the profile of an intelligence operator or bounty hunter.

Spoiler

Or an independently wealthy businessman who does a lot of traveling with expensive antiquities and likes his privacy (and avoiding piracy).

 

1 minute ago, Axelay said:

- How did Cinta get off of Aldhani?

Spoiler

The Rebels got onto Aldhani somehow, so presumably there's either a civilian spaceport somewhere, they hid the ship they arrived on, or she was able to call for extraction once the heat died down a bit.

 

1 minute ago, Axelay said:

- Anybody else notice the unarmed civilians taking down the Death Troopers during the riot? I actually laughed out loud at that one. That's gotta suck when you're supposed to be like an Imperial Green Beret and you get ganked like that.

Spoiler

I missed that one, but none of them seem to have gotten off particularly easy.  At least one got killed without even getting to raise his weapon when the bomb went off and killed everyone in the room with him including their informant Nurchi.

 

1 minute ago, Axelay said:

- My assumption is that Syril is now going to be taken onboard by the ISB. (Which I kind of cringe about.) Wonder if he'll bring Mosk with him?

Spoiler

Maybe he'll just be Meero's househusband instead? lol

Yeah, I kinda suspect we're gonna see Syril Karn get inducted into the ISB for his (villainous) valor in saving Lt. Meero from the mob.  Since irony seems to like to make Syril its b*tch, I kind of suspect he's either going to get gunned down by Cassian at the end of the second season or he's going to end up assigned to the Death Star and end up a member of the team who finds the critical fault in it right before the Rebels blow it up.

 

1 minute ago, Axelay said:

- I wonder if next season will show how Saw Gerrera came to be so debilitated by the time of Rogue One?

Spoiler

It seems likely.

 

[Bolt]

Spoiler

As far as Saw's war wounds..

 I believe he loses a leg and has damaged lungs shortly before or after he sets up shop on Jehda. Apparently he's also formally censured by Mon Mothma and rebel co. Around that time. That may fall into the end of Andor's season two  

 

[azrael]

4 hours ago, Axelay said:

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- Anybody else notice the unarmed civilians taking down the Death Troopers during the riot? I actually laughed out loud at that one. That's gotta suck when you're supposed to be like an Imperial Green Beret and you get ganked like that.

Spoiler

Well it was a riot and the Imps were surrounded in the chaos...

 

[Big s]

1 hour ago, Chunky001 said:

Not nearly as bad as the Storm Trooper (with a helmet) getting head butted by a local (with no helmet) and the Storm Trooper going down!

I still think the best take down was from that guy using Casian’s dead mom as a weapon. I was dying of laughter at that part.

[Mog]

I believe it’s the same dude doing both actions.

[TehPW]

Seti...

Spoiler

Syril = Deathstar Resident: that maybe why they intially wanted more than 3 seasons (because then they could film events like that very aspect from SW VI)

Someone else did a speculation: 

Spoiler

Luthen is a former Jedi (long ago disgraced), that crystal being the crystal placed in his walking stick...

 

[TangledThorns]

Finished the season finale, best new series on streaming this year IMHO. More so than House of the Dragon, Rings of Power, etc. 

I do have a gripe, though minor, about ANDOR and its there is no alien characters among the main cast. This is the same issue I had with ROGUE ONE too. They made it so inclusive but forgot the aliens as main characters, lol.

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, TangledThorns said:

I do have a gripe, though minor, about ANDOR and its there is no alien characters among the main cast. This is the same issue I had with ROGUE ONE too. They made it so inclusive but forgot the aliens as main characters, lol.

Spoiler

Ya no aliens in the prison either ,building relays or whatever for the Deathstar dish . Within that context , i can see the Empire is very "human" centric. Somewhat xenophobic. No alien Storm Troopers, ever. It's just taking for granted. As far as the overall story, there's plenty of background aliens. But none that carry on  

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Bolt

[TehPW]

6 minutes ago, Bolt said:

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Ya no aliens in the prison either ,building relays or whatever for the Deathstar dish . Within that context , i can see the Empire is very "human" centric. Somewhat xenophobic. No alien Storm Troopers, ever. It's just taking for granted. As far as the overall story, there's plenty of background aliens. But none that carry on  

 

It's clear as day how the Empire views non-humans just by listening to Dr Mengles talking about the sound clip of Children (alien or otherwise)...

[Big s]

2 minutes ago, TehPW said:

It's clear as day how the Empire views non-humans just by listening to Dr Mengles talking about the sound clip of Children (alien or otherwise)...

Yeah, they’re supposed to be space Nazis.

[Seto Kaiba]

Spoiler

4 hours ago, TehPW said:

Luthen is a former Jedi (long ago disgraced), that crystal being the crystal placed in his walking stick...

That would be absolutely the worst possible backstory for him.  Full stop.

That would be enough to make me stop watching.  One of the things keeping Andor accessible and interesting is that these are ordinary people who are dealing with the Empire's oppression in their own ways.  Whether that means keeping their heads down and living with it, rising up and doing something about it, or even taking the Empire's side out of the belief that the law and justice are one and the same.  These are people making choices.  They have agency in their stories.

Spoiler

I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but IMO Force users are 100% the worst, laziest thing about Star Wars.  They're flat characters because the Force exists as a self-enforcing moral absolute to them.  Users of the Light Side are noble and selfless Hero-Saints and users of the Dark Side eat babies.  If they stop being selfless they'll be chowing down on children within the week, like Anakin.  Did something good at the last second?  Fate just forgot they were responsible for decades of genocide, oppression, and laser sword murder and they go to Force heaven... like Anakin.  They have no agency, because the Force has a plan for them and it is not taking "No" for an answer... and they not only know it, it's a fundamental part of their belief system and training.  There are no real stakes in their stories either, because they're being railroaded towards a predetermined outcome by an omniscient and omnipotent power.  It makes them incredibly boring.

Ordinary - but very angry - private citizens Cassian Andor and Luthen Rael are ten million times more interesting as characters than any Jedi or Sith Lord because they are not puppets of fate.  They have more moral options than Sainthood and Absolute Evil.

 

3 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

Finished the season finale, best new series on streaming this year IMHO. More so than House of the Dragon, Rings of Power, etc. 

I do have a gripe, though minor, about ANDOR and its there is no alien characters among the main cast. This is the same issue I had with ROGUE ONE too. They made it so inclusive but forgot the aliens as main characters, lol.

It's not surprising, IMO... the Star Wars galaxy has always felt pretty human-centric.  Aliens were mostly comic relief or secondary characters at best.  It's also really hard to make a seven foot two shag carpet who talks entirely in untranslated barks and growls or a hydrocephalic fishman into characters the audience can relate to easily.

Though, in hindsight, it does make sense that the Empire's deep-seated racism would even extent to its mass incarceration too.  Narkina 5 is supposed to be a nicer prison, where conditions are allegedly more humane.  The prison population is 100% human.  One can only imagine how much worse the alien prison population has it because they're second-class citizens at best.

[Big s]

41 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The prison population is 100% human.  One can only imagine how much worse the alien prison population has it because they're second-class citizens at best.

They’re probably used for food. I bet there’s a huge bounty out for Admiral Ackbar since he’d probably taste great steamed with a bit of butter 

[Mog]

Nah, breaded and pan fried.  Those Mon Calamari are quite delish with a squeeze of lemon and dipping sauce.

I think the excuse with Narkina 5 is that who knows how an alien physique would tolerate the built-in shock floors.  Better to keep the species in that prison relatively the same so you don’t have to customize or recalibrate the floors for different species.

We did see a few aliens in Saw’s camp.  And there was that one black masked alien during the Rix Road skirmish.

[Thom]

To the powers of the Force, I see it more as a mystical version of the Captain America super-serum, in that it is an amplifying and enabling force. If you do good, it nurtures good, and if you do bad it nurtures bad, as in which wolf do you feed? 

[Roy Focker]

Featured alien characters wouldn't work with Andor's tone. Star Wars has problems when it comes to alien characters. Most of them either speak a language nobody understands, or they give them an accent of some racial stereotype. Then then will use them as comic relief.   

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

Featured alien characters wouldn't work with Andor's tone. Star Wars has problems when it comes to alien characters. Most of them either speak a language nobody understands, or they give them an accent of some racial stereotype. Then then will use them as comic relief.   

Yeah... nobody wants the return of a minstrel show-like comic relief character ala Jar-Jar Binks, and giving Cassian an alien buddy he had to translate for would not only slow the plot down a bit it'd make him feel like a low-rent Han Solo (like the Han Solo in Solo).

[pengbuzz]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah... nobody wants the return of a minstrel show-like comic relief character ala Jar-Jar Binks, and giving Cassian an alien buddy he had to translate for would not only slow the plot down a bit it'd make him feel like a low-rent Han Solo (like the Han Solo in Solo).

More like Dumpster-Dive Han Solo. That didn't even seem like Han to me; not the same mannerisms or much of anything save the outfit.

More to the point though: after seeing what SW does with aliens (case in point: prequel Trade Federation bosses), I think they would do well keeping them in only  as needed and sparingly at that (BSG-R avoids that luggage by nit having any to begin with, but that's another franchise). GIven the Empire's disdain (at best) for non- homo sapiens, that can work just fine for this period.

On another note: Cassian needs to be his own character, not a clone of another established previous one. Adding an alien sidekick is just going to make it that much harder sledding  for the character and the show overall.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by pengbuzz

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

More to the point though: after seeing what SW does with aliens (case in point: prequel Trade Federation bosses), I think they would do well keeping them in only  as needed and sparingly at that (BSG-R avoids that luggage by nit having any to begin with, but that's another franchise). GIven the Empire's disdain (at best) for non- homo sapiens, that can work just fine for this period.

At least in the films, Star Wars has always restricted the roles of alien characters to sidekicks, supporting characters, and background extras.  

I suspect that has a lot to do with Star Wars opting to make its aliens more physically alien.  Star Trek can get away with making alien characters regulars in its main cast because its favored approach to aliens is the humanoid "rubber forehead alien".  The light prosthetics and body paint they use minimally obscures the actors faces, so they can still emote like a normal actor.  It's relatively easy on the actors, unless they develop an allergy to the materials.  More "alien" aliens require either digital post-production animation or heavy makeup and prosthetics that are extremely time-consuming, expensive, and hard on the actors.  I've heard it said that actors who play those roles tend to ask for more money in casting because of how time consuming, unpleasant, and claustrophobic working in heavy prosthetics is.  

Easier by far to keep aliens in the background "for local color" and leave the action to the humans.  

(That and Star Wars made a lot of its more recent aliens kinda racist... the Trade Federation, Jar-Jar, Watto, etc.  I'd really rather not see something like that again.  Another one of those would make it two steps forward and three steps back in terms of representation.)

 

2 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

On another note: Cassian needs to be his own character, not a clone of another established previous one. Adding an alien sidekick is just going to make it that much harder sledding  for the character and the show overall.

Yeah.  Cassian and Andor in general benefit heavily from defying the usual Star Wars formula in favor of more nuanced storytelling.  I'd hate to see them compromise that.

[Big s]

3 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

On another note: Cassian needs to be his own character, not a clone of another established previous one. Adding an alien sidekick is just going to make it that much harder sledding  for the character and the show overall.

He may not get an alien, but there was the emo robot and he eventually gets a sassbot 

[electric indigo]

Andor x RATM