Willow, the series; streaming on Disney+

[technoblue]

3 hours ago, Duke Togo said:

Disappointed you, or lost money? You said “box-office losses.” Which Disney films have lost money?

Not a sacred cow by any means, but you’re painting a picture of systematic failure which is just not backed up by anything.

As for the topic at hand, we’ll see about Willow when it comes out. Clickbait YouTube videos and articles from non-reputable sites aren’t actual sources of any real information regarding the series.

What's more is that the aim of the particular argument has changed to conflate Disney films with Disney streaming series. With movies, we can review box office numbers and have an analytical discussion about how many people watched the movie, how much it cost to bring the idea to the big screen, and the resulting profits. With streaming, we only get to see how popular a show is on the Disney+ streaming site. This leaves out a lot of that analytical data.

For influencers, I'm sure this makes their jobs golden though, because in the absence of data and numbers one can stir up shenanigans to create entertainment.

Willow will be an interesting test. To date, the Star Wars and Marvel streaming series have brought in the most viewers on Disney+. If this new Willow series can match their blockbuster properties, then I can see Disney opting to add more fantasy to its line-up...and that isn't a bad thing IMO. It's good to have variety.

[mechaninac]

4 hours ago, Duke Togo said:

Disappointed you, or lost money? You said “box-office losses.” Which Disney films have lost money?

Not a sacred cow by any means, but you’re painting a picture of systematic failure which is just not backed up by anything.

As for the topic at hand, we’ll see about Willow when it comes out. Clickbait YouTube videos and articles from non-reputable sites aren’t actual sources of any real information regarding the series.

Reading and comprehension, not even once...

Dr. Strange 2 and Thor L&T disappointed; everything else I mentioned lost money... some downright flopped hard (Ex.: Lightyear - production costs, not including promotion, was app. $200 million - $400 million needed to barely break even; it grossed $226.4 million worldwide), as in they did not make enough to recoup production, advertising, and other costs.  Obtuseness and over sensitivity is not an argument; all the information on theatrical releases' performance is readily available... ignoring or denying the numbers don't make them any less stark or real.  The streaming side of things is just as lackluster, with Marvel and Star Wars shows drawing fewer and fewer numbers with every release, to the very nadir of She Hulk (a certifiable bomb) to Andor (an apparently decent series that has the lowest viewership numbers of all the SW live action entries), to the LA/CG Pinocchio (almost universally panned as hot garbage).  Have all Disney's releases failed? No, but oh boy, have they had a higher that statistical number of stinkers all around.

[Duke Togo]

16 minutes ago, mechaninac said:

Reading and comprehension, not even once…

Moving on.

With Willow, we’ll see if showrunner Jonathan Kasdan has something going for him outside of his last name. I won’t judge him on Solo, as the production of that movie was a mess and a lot of the script he wrote with his father wasn’t followed.

While I have a soft spot for the Willow movie, which has its charms, this isn’t exactly a killer property. My interest is nostalgia driven, but that will only go so far.

[Big s]

3 hours ago, technoblue said:

Willow will be an interesting test.

That’s one of the reasons I have an interest, besides the nostalgia. I’d like to have a better reason to keep D+ than just relying on Marvel and Starwars. And if they do a good job on the show it could prove that maybe they can do something that isn’t attached to an existing franchise.

I don’t think that this show could be any worse than recent shows like Rings of power or She hulk, but I don’t think anyone expects it to be the greatest show to hit streaming either. I’ll definitely watch and hope I enjoy.

[technoblue]

1 hour ago, Big s said:

That’s one of the reasons I have an interest, besides the nostalgia. I’d like to have a better reason to keep D+ than just relying on Marvel and Starwars. And if they do a good job on the show it could prove that maybe they can do something that isn’t attached to an existing franchise.

I don’t think that this show could be any worse than recent shows like Rings of power or She hulk, but I don’t think anyone expects it to be the greatest show to hit streaming either. I’ll definitely watch and hope I enjoy.

HaHa! I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about Rings of Power. For all it's faults, I am enjoyed the romp through a young Middle Earth and I'm looking forward to the second season. As for She Hulk, I think the series accomplished what it wanted to do, which was to give us a fourth-wall breaking, awkwardly silly super-hero lawyer show. It wasn't quite Ally McBeal, but there were times when I was reminded of that old show when watching Tatiana do her thing. Anyway, She Hulk was ok IMO. But I also don't think that Marvel needs to make every character a movie-style blockbuster entry into their cinematic universe. If She Hulk is a one-time thing that works for me. If she ends up as a side character in a larger film, then that works too. If she gets her own film like her cousin the Hulk, well...bonus. 

As an aside. I've never been able to understand the backlash against Solo. I mean, it's obvious it was there looking at the box office numbers, but I gave it a chance and thought it was a fun story. Personally, I think it just suffered bad timing. There was a concerted, albeit very strange, effort to make a scene after Rian Johnson's entry to the third trilogy films--any Star Wars movie that Disney released after The Last Jedi was probably an automatic target.

Anyway, it's another thing that I don't understand...

With Willow, I am very much looking forward to visiting another cool fantasy world. I'm avoiding as much of the scuttlebutt as I can because I want to go into the series with only my knowledge of the movie.

Edited November 5, 2022 by technoblue

[Thom]

With most shows on streaming, I'm not looking for blockbusters. TRoP was good and enjoyable, if not terribly exciting. I have better hopes for the next season. Solo, being mentioned, was a good movie, but suffered, as mentioned, as following after the new trilogy sequel and because of the drama behind the camera. But it was good, certainly. She-hulk I really like! It's not a usual, by the numbers superhero show, even if that was intended, but a quirky, day in the life of a hulk and I enjoyed it immensely for that. I would be disappointed if they didn't give it a second season, at least.  I would never consider that a bomb.

As for Willow, nostalgia is leading right now but I'm liking what I'm seeing in the trailers.

[Big s]

My problem with she hulk was that the jokes really didn’t land. That made it kind of a dull show. And for a day in the life thing, she didn’t really have a life. Most episodes she’d go to work and go home. She didn’t do anything at home except the occasional one night stand. And her work day wasn’t too deep either. I also felt highly disappointed by the ending. It was a gag that felt pointless. 
So for me as long as Willow is fun, then it already would be better than she hulk. It just has to try not to be tedious and it might be a win. There also is the bonus that it’s based off a single movie franchise, so I don’t think it has to worry about making fans too angry like what happened with obi or boba shows.

[Thom]

Started today and watched the first two episodes. Looks like it'll be an episode per week thing, unlike what Netflix does. Love just binging.

As for the show, it was okay, and I wish I could say it was better than just that. Unfortunately, pacing and acting felt off, as was plot. It felt like it was taking itself too lightly, and that could be seen in the comedic attempts.

Most notable with...

Spoiler

Willow, as they do him far less serious than they should have. His talking to the other Nelwins as the High Alwyn was almost painful. It wasn't until he gets angry at the others for letting Elora wander off that I think we see the Willow he should have been from the moment he appeared. But he has doubts, as fostered by Sorsha making it clear that she didn't trust him and his 'magic' in order to protect, much less teach, Elora. But still, he seems like he hasn't grown much since the movie.

I hope it starts to shape up in the next few episodes, esp as we get away from the first acts of the plot and the action starts to pick up. I will say this though, unless it suddenly drives off a cliff, I'll keep watching, as it is kind a fun.

[Big s]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

I hope it starts to shape up in the next few episodes, esp as we get away from the first acts of the plot and the action starts to pick up. I will say this though, unless it suddenly drives off a cliff, I'll keep watching, as it is kind a fun.

Honestly wasn’t expecting anything groundbreaking. As long as it’s fun to watch, I’ll check it out. I really just wanted a fun show anyway and if it ends up more than that by the end I’ll be even happier 

[Thom]

1 hour ago, Big s said:

Honestly wasn’t expecting anything groundbreaking. As long as it’s fun to watch, I’ll check it out. I really just wanted a fun show anyway and if it ends up more than that by the end I’ll be even happier 

It is fun, IMO. No, it's not on the same level of Wednedsay but, personally, not every show needs to be a 10/10 for me to spend time to watch it, as the enjoyment factor is much more important.

[sh9000]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thom]

Watched the first two episodes. Looks like it'll be an episode per week thing, unlike what Netflix does. Love just binging.

As for the show, it was okay, and I wish I could say it was better than just that. Unfortunately, pacing and acting felt off, as was plot. It felt like it was taking itself too lightly, and that could be seen in the comedic attempts.

Most notable with...

Spoiler

Willow, as they do him far less serious than they should have. His talking to the other Nelwins as the High Alwyn was almost painful. It wasn't until he gets angry at the others for letting Elora wander off that I think we see the Willow he should have been from the moment he appeared. But he has doubts, as fostered by Sorsha making it clear that she didn't trust him and his 'magic' in order to protect, much less teach, Elora. But still, he seems like he hasn't grown much since the movie.

I hope it starts to shape up in the next few episodes, esp as we get away from the first acts of the plot and the action starts to pick up. I will say this though, unless it suddenly drives off a cliff, I'll keep watching, as it is kind a fun.😄

[pengbuzz]

17 minutes ago, Thom said:

Watched the first two episodes. Looks like it'll be an episode per week thing, unlike what Netflix does. Love just binging.

As for the show, it was okay, and I wish I could say it was better than just that. Unfortunately, pacing and acting felt off, as was plot. It felt like it was taking itself too lightly, and that could be seen in the comedic attempts.

Most notable with...

  Hide contents

Willow, as they do him far less serious than they should have. His talking to the other Nelwins as the High Alwyn was almost painful. It wasn't until he gets angry at the others for letting Elora wander off that I think we see the Willow he should have been from the moment he appeared. But he has doubts, as fostered by Sorsha making it clear that she didn't trust him and his 'magic' in order to protect, much less teach, Elora. But still, he seems like he hasn't grown much since the movie.

I hope it starts to shape up in the next few episodes, esp as we get away from the first acts of the plot and the action starts to pick up. I will say this though, unless it suddenly drives off a cliff, I'll keep watching, as it is kind a fun.😄

It makes me think the series is trying to find its' footing; I hope it does, as it has potential (if done right).

[Thom]

6 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

It makes me think the series is trying to find its' footing; I hope it does, as it has potential (if done right).

Same here. Sometimes a rough start comes to a good end. I'm hoping that when the action really pics up, it'll smooth out.

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Thom

[Duke Togo]

Reviewers say the show really picks up and gets good, but the first two episodes put me off. Why is this a comedy and why does everyone talk like they’ve come out of the modern world?

[Thom]

3 hours ago, Duke Togo said:

Reviewers say the show really picks up and gets good, but the first two episodes put me off. Why is this a comedy and why does everyone talk like they’ve come out of the modern world?

Thanks, I noticed that too. It pulled me out of the show whenever that happened. As for comedy, I guess they were trying to mimic the movie in that way, but clearly did not pull it off.

And I do hope it does get better. I'll still watch, but I'd rather than not have need to pause it and chuckle. If I'm supposed to laugh it should be with it and not at it.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Thom

[Duke Togo]

Willow the movie has humor, but it’s not a comedy. Willow the series is just constant jokes and quips. It’s trying to be a comedy.

[Roy Focker]

It is very modern. Like it doesn't seem like a  fantasy show in tone but a current day show. Its like how young adult movies sets in the future often have characters talking and acting like people would today.

Its not bad. Its not great. It does have enough charm to keep me watching. I don't think I'll be rushing to see new episodes as soon their released but I'll catch them within a few days.

[no3Ljm]

 

[Dynaman]

I still need to give this a watch (so many other things to see now though, spoiled for choice instead of the scifi/fantasy desert of a few years back).  I don't expect much, Willow the movie was not really good, kinda mediocre really but had a bunch of well done parts to it.  Warwick Davis did great and his character was good for example but most of the others were cookie cutter.  So to end the rambling, if the series is decent fun I'll be happy.

[technoblue]

I caught the first episode last night. So far, my only criticism is with how they rushed a certain character reveal. The rest seems ok. I’m enjoying it.

[Thom]

2 hours ago, technoblue said:

I caught the first episode last night. So far, my only criticism is with how they rushed a certain character reveal. The rest seems ok. I’m enjoying it.

Same. 

Spoiler

They should have used two or three episodes to tease who she is, maybe have Willow saying he knows where she is, even with her being in the group all along. But with them revealing her so quickly, then they should have given her more of an intro than just as the Prince's love interest. IMO.

 

[Duke Togo]

This show is not good. I keep watching because the reviewers insist it gets really good, but man… 

[Thom]

I will say, the third episode was better then the previous two. I'll be hanging in there.

[Wolf-1]

Never made it to the end of episode 1; while it was nice to see that they did bring back Sorsha, I was appalled to see a mirror finish on her sword.  It was menacing in the first film, had a well used and trusted look, now it's just wall art.

[Thom]

On 12/7/2022 at 6:54 PM, Wolf-1 said:

Never made it to the end of episode 1; while it was nice to see that they did bring back Sorsha, I was appalled to see a mirror finish on her sword.  It was menacing in the first film, had a well used and trusted look, now it's just wall art.

For whatever reason, Sorsha did not take care of her blade, but Kit does!😜

IMO, episode 4 continues the upward trend in likability surpassing mere nostalgia-bait.

That makes me wonder how they film these, as close to episode number as possible? Me thinks it might be better to start filming on the puff episodes/scenes first in order to get the cast and writers on the same page and work the feel out of it before starting on the real stuff. Maybe even do two episodes almost like prototypes, never intended to be scene but just as a way to shake off the brittle 'newness.'

[mechaninac]

The Critical Drinker's take on movies and shows, agree with him or not, are always well put together and highly entertaining... and he absolutely eviscerates Lucas Films/Disney's latest attempt at digging up old, fondly remembered, IPs and torturing them into grotesque caricatures made for "modern audiences".

[Bolt]

Mmm this show is a bit goofy ( no pun intended Disney!) and way too modern speak. The music too. It's a steady descent. Not even Christian Slater could save the last episode.  

[Duke Togo]

41 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Mmm this show is a bit goofy ( no pun intended Disney!) and way too modern speak. The music too. It's a steady descent. Not even Christian Slater could save the last episode.  

After this last episode I don’t even know what this show is anymore. It’s so all over the place. It’s like a high school production of Willow.

[Big s]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Mmm this show is a bit goofy ( no pun intended Disney!) and way too modern speak. The music too. It's a steady descent. Not even Christian Slater could save the last episode.  

I haven’t seen this week’s episode yet. But as far as the modern speak, I don’t really remember Val Kilmer trying out an accent in the original movie. If I remember it was kind of an odd mix of modern American, British and whatever goofy almost Jewish New Yorker accents. So on that note, not much different than the show.

My complaints are with other aspects, like the pacing is forced drama, then a forced comedy bit then maybe a few seconds of action. It’s mostly a lot of arguing. There’s also that issue that it makes it seem as though all the main characters from the movie are kinda just terrible people at this point that made horrible decisions after the movie ended.

I don’t think the show is a total failure, but it feels more like a 90’s made for tv miniseries. It’s unfortunate that most of the the fantasy shows this year have been so forgettable.

 I’ll probably watch the new episode later this week and hope the show really starts getting better, but so far it’s kinda just ok

[jenius]

I am sticking with this purely for sentimental reasons because the show is not good. Sometimes it's quite bad.

[Thom]

I'm not hating it. In fact, I am still entertained, though too much of that is a laughing 'at' rather than laughing 'with' situation. The forced comedy is jarring, like when you have a troll speaking like a cultured gentleman, or hear one troll in a group asking when they're going to get lunch. Or taking the wild men from the last episode and turning them into a gag. So many bad choices being made... but I'm still watching and still having fun watching. So, go figure.

[jenius]

So are they going to finish the story line or is this going to end without resolution and not get renewed for another season? 

Was it the end of episode 1 or the beginning of episode 2 where they're walking through a deserted village that starts shaking and it seems like something evil is going to happen... and then the next scene they're out of the village and they never refer to it again? It's the same episode where they're camping on the way to the only convenient way through the barrier and Dove, who has no horse or anything, walks off, and somehow passes the group without being seen, and walks through the magic barrier and doesn't think anything of it. I think there's even a gorge she miraculously gets around but it is not alluded to. The editing is just awful. 

Boorman is the only good character so far. Willow and his friend aren't awful... the rest make me cringe more often than not. The Graydon has a crush on Dove thing? They're on a quest to save her boyfriend with his fiance. If they wanted to make it clear he had something for her and make you wonder what would come of it, that could be fun... but instead it's all ham-fisted and awkward. Also, why give up on the humor and drama that could come from his being betrothed to Kit? That was immediately discarded. The Bonereavers suddenly being good guys? They joke about making people into hats but then it's like "nah, we're all family!" There could have been true humor AND drama if it was handled with the Bonereavers still being absolutely savage and the gang having to take advantage of the family tie to escape somehow. 

I'm going to watch Witcher Blood Origin for a bit which I hear has terrible reviews but I'm guessing it's going to feel a lot more polished than this. 

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, jenius said:

So are they going to finish the story line or is this going to end without resolution and not get renewed for another season? 

I'm going to finish the season. But I expect to be left hanging, when it's done.  There's a lot of floppy story telling going on.. 

 

1 hour ago, jenius said:

I'm going to watch Witcher Blood Origin for a bit which I hear has terrible reviews but I'm guessing it's going to feel a lot more polished than this. 

At least Blood Origin feels cohesive and carries itself well enough, through out the story. IMO. The action is certainly more exciting. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Bolt

[Big s]

17 hours ago, jenius said:

? It's the same episode where they're camping on the way to the only convenient way through the barrier and Dove, who has no horse or anything, walks off, and somehow passes the group without being seen, and walks through the magic barrier and doesn't think anything of it. I think there's even a gorge she miraculously gets around but it is not alluded to. The editing is just awful.

I can’t really explain the rest, but I think she just cut straight through and used the tree to get across making an awkward shortcut. And I don’t think she understood the barrier to begin with since she was just a baker. But honestly it’s still not very solid of an explanation.
I still haven’t had time to see the most recent episode, but it’s easy to see why this show has some of the lowest viewership of the rest of d+. I don’t think the mouse is as tough with cancellation as other networks, but if it were Netflix there definitely would be no hope for a second season. Initial viewership for Andor was pretty bad and would also have been on the chopping block if it were on some of the other channels, but they’re going through with a second season hoping that it picks up from word of mouth. I think I heard they axed She Hulk, but not sure on that one. So who knows at this point how tough they’ll be on their shows viewership performance.