Rodavan Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 Hi all Just dropped in to say hi , still alive ....... This thread still rocks ! Good to see all the guys still adding. King Nor , DAT says you might want to try and use some of my models for rigging , they are however a "bit" heavy for they started as CAD NURBS models . Select the ones you want , you may use them , I have seen some off the rigs you did for DAT---excellent ! I will try and convert them to something smaller once you let me know which ones you would like. DOC - any good books on MAYA 6 you can sugget , got a demo copy so maybe my next model might be a maya model , I might finshed it by ......... end 2006 Good modelling
Rodavan Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 Not them again .................... Just for King Nor and those of you who hasn't seen them yet
Doktor Gonzo Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 (edited) dude, i've got a set driven key transformation with fk'ed arms and ik'ed legs. I'm trying to get the ik legs to work in gerwalk and batroid mode, i'm sure you can tell thats a nightmare and a half.Ik's are basicly designed to only allow a "knee" to bend one way so trying to convince maya i want the knee to swing 180 degrees is like telling rocks to float. i got the entire transformation to work on ONE locator with a set driven key slider on it. goes from fighter to batroid in 30 "frames" 0 = fighter 10 = chicken valk mode 15 = gerwalk 30 = batroid. the idea i have is that an animator won't have to wory about animating transformation and can focus on animating the pilot inputs in each mode ie: the arms and legs are pretty standard stuff. Joints and Ik handles with the usual controllers attached. but these arms and legs are all attached the the body, which is ......... INSANELY complex and not something an animator is gonna want to touch on a regular basis. so far the arms and the transformation are the parts that work. the legs make me want to kill kittens. cute baby kittens. i can't find a good way to attach the parts to the bones and make everything work properly... oi vay. well thanks for lilstening, more of a rant and blowing off steam than actually hopeing to get pointers, but if you have any let me know. rigs make stuff happen!! KN, Your set-up pretty much EXACTLY mirrors my own - set driven transform, FK arms and IK legs (I hit the same "backwards leg IK snag" and gave up on getting IK to work for GERWALK, I just have a script driven IK/FK switch that activates the IK constraints/handles only when transformation to Battroid is complete. For GERWALK leg animation, I use the FK handles.) My transform works in arbitrary time as it is set driven key driven. The transform slider is attached to a master control object which is also the master "mover" control for the whole character. The arm and leg joint chains are attached to the body, just like yours. The body has no skeltal structure, it is just insanely complex parenting and properly placed pivot points (though I have FK-driven waist pivot and some limited "tilt", so it can lean or hunch a little). As for the legs, all I can tell you is that scripting is your friend. Placing the pivots properly, locking axes on hinge and rotator joints, and setting limits will also pay off. And remind me to share with you the crazy math I've got going for proper animation of the intakes and the kneepads soon... But I have to tell you -- I just got an idea while typing this, one that might solve that GERWALK IK leg problem. Let me try it, I'll get back to you later.... Edited November 11, 2004 by Doktor Gonzo
Doktor Gonzo Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 DOC - any good books on MAYA 6 you can sugget , got a demo copy so maybe my next model might be a maya model , I might finshed it by ......... end 2006 Good modelling Rod, Oddly enough, I have gotten really good use out of the ART OF MAYA books - though they are mainly art galleries, they have loads of sidebars and margin text offering in-depth exploration of the tools and techniques used to produce each piece. If you need something more tutorial-y though, the LEARNING MAYA series is excellent. Not sure if LEARNING MAYA 6 is out though....
KingNor Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 (edited) KN, Your set-up pretty much EXACTLY mirrors my own - set driven transform, FK arms and IK legs (I hit the same "backwards leg IK snag" and gave up on getting IK to work for GERWALK, I just have a script driven IK/FK switch that activates the IK constraints/handles only when transformation to Battroid is complete. For GERWALK leg animation, I use the FK handles.) My transform works in arbitrary time as it is set driven key driven. The transform slider is attached to a master control object which is also the master "mover" control for the whole character. The arm and leg joint chains are attached to the body, just like yours. The body has no skeltal structure, it is just insanely complex parenting and properly placed pivot points (though I have FK-driven waist pivot and some limited "tilt", so it can lean or hunch a little).  As for the legs, all I can tell you is that scripting is your friend. Placing the pivots properly, locking axes on hinge and rotator joints, and setting limits will also pay off. And remind me to share with you the crazy math I've got going for proper animation of the intakes and the kneepads soon...  But I have to tell you -- I just got an idea while typing this, one that might solve that GERWALK IK leg problem. Let me try it, I'll get back to you later.... cool, i actually do have joints to do some of the main transformation since i was having trouble with all the parenting when i started moveing the valk away from zero. so the main body fold has bones, the backpack doesn't. i really need to redo mine and parent it myself (sorry datter) i also need to rename it though, alot of the body is called stuff like cube315a_blah_blaH_copy and kinda scares me it'll be a good excersise in organization though. I'm learning ALOT working on this thing. it's stumped my instructor (lead animator at EA for christ'sake) he said he's never seen anything this complex. i'll be proud when it works. as for that fix, man don't leave me hangin, i'm dieing here. Edited November 11, 2004 by KingNor
Gammera Posted November 13, 2004 Posted November 13, 2004 Fighter mode done again!! (I think this is the third time I've modeled one of these) This the first one to be this articulated. GERWALK tommorow....
Knight26 Posted November 13, 2004 Posted November 13, 2004 Looking nice Gammera but can you crank up the anti-aliasing on your renderer?
Doktor Gonzo Posted November 14, 2004 Posted November 14, 2004 as for that fix, man don't leave me hangin, i'm dieing here. Fix was actually a lot simpler than what I originally had in mind: Each of your 2 leg IK handles has an attribute called "Twist". If your handles are anything like mine (set up for battroid jointing, connected at the knee to a Locator via a Pole Vector constraint) then a value of either 120 or -120 on Twist ought to convert the forward-jointed battroid configuration leg into a reverse-jointed GERWALK IK joint. Just set-drive Twist to have those values when you're in gerwalk, 0 when you're in Battroid, and you should be there...
Aztek Posted November 15, 2004 Author Posted November 15, 2004 Damn DG, I wish I woulda modeled my valk in Maya just so I could pick your guys' brains on rigging. Is there anyone elso out there who uses Max and has a fairly decent valk rig?
Chronocidal Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 Hehe.. well, I use max, but my animation skills are mostly limited to doing control surfaces and landing gear.. although, a transforming valk can't be that far off. But as for things like walking, I've got no clue where to begin. My few experiments with bone structures didn't work out at all like I'd hoped.. probably need to run through a few tutorials. I could probably make a Valk transform, but that's about it.
CoryHolmes Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 But as for things like walking, I've got no clue where to begin. Lift foot up, swing leg forward, plant foot down. Lift other foot up, swing other leg forward, plant other foot down...
KingNor Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 But as for things like walking, I've got no clue where to begin. Lift foot up, swing leg forward, plant foot down. Lift other foot up, swing other leg forward, plant other foot down... tsk tsk tsk. bad monkey.
KingNor Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 as for that fix, man don't leave me hangin, i'm dieing here. Fix was actually a lot simpler than what I originally had in mind: Each of your 2 leg IK handles has an attribute called "Twist". If your handles are anything like mine (set up for battroid jointing, connected at the knee to a Locator via a Pole Vector constraint) then a value of either 120 or -120 on Twist ought to convert the forward-jointed battroid configuration leg into a reverse-jointed GERWALK IK joint. Just set-drive Twist to have those values when you're in gerwalk, 0 when you're in Battroid, and you should be there... can you make a couple of screen grabs to show me what you're talking about, the part about the ik connected at the knee is confusing me.
DatterBoy Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 The Kneecaps, I think, are key. One of the things I love about the design that was left out of the original Bandai Monkeys, or any other transformable design I can think of for that matter. The pivoting kneecaps are a great piece of armor that likely needs some kind of mathematical formula to drive the pivot and aniimation in regards to the mid leg portion and the lower leg. Great idea if that is what you're talking about, DOK. KingNor: You want real practice? Try that... :Dat
Doktor Gonzo Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 The Kneecaps, I think, are key. One of the things I love about the design that was left out of the original Bandai Monkeys, or any other transformable design I can think of for that matter. The pivoting kneecaps are a great piece of armor that likely needs some kind of mathematical formula to drive the pivot and aniimation in regards to the mid leg portion and the lower leg.Great idea if that is what you're talking about, DOK. KingNor: You want real practice? Try that... :Dat Not quite what I am talking about Dat, but I did indeed do that - and it's even more complicated.... the kneepads are driven by a scripted formula when the legs are free for keyframe animation (i.e. in Battroid mode) but need to be connected to a driven key during transformation. To switch between one driving node or the other, I use the snippet of script I published a page or two back on this thread. KN: I'll try and grab some screencaps later to show you what I mean re: the leg IK handles and their Twist value...
Doktor Gonzo Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 Here we go: This rig (polygons hidden for easy view) represents my GERWALK mode. The top image shows the rig with IK active (and with the IK handle as the currently selected object - I have just clicked where the "FK" is visible onscreen) and the IK handle's "Twist" component set to 0 (as can be seen in the attribute editor on the right.) As a result, the leg defaults to the forward-bent battroid configuration. But in the bottom pic, I set Twist=120. As a result, the joint bends around backwards, as it happens into a decent GERWALK stance.
KingNor Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 Here we go: This rig (polygons hidden for easy view) represents my GERWALK mode. The top image shows the rig with IK active (and with the IK handle as the currently selected object - I have just clicked where the "FK" is visible onscreen) and the IK handle's "Twist" component set to 0 (as can be seen in the attribute editor on the right.) As a result, the leg defaults to the forward-bent battroid configuration. But in the bottom pic, I set Twist=120. As a result, the joint bends around backwards, as it happens into a decent GERWALK stance. i see.. but doesn't that just turn the leg around backwards? when i use the twist on my rig it spins the leg around so in effect: the leg kind of appears to be bending the right way, but the reality is that the knee is still bending like in batroid but the leg is pointing backwards. would you mind sending a copy of this to my email account so i could play with it and see if it's something i can incorporaite into my own rig? kingnor@hotmail.com that would be great of you, i can send mine if you want to try it out too.
Doktor Gonzo Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 i see.. but doesn't that just turn the leg around backwards? when i use the twist on my rig it spins the leg around so in effect: the leg kind of appears to be bending the right way, but the reality is that the knee is still bending like in batroid but the leg is pointing backwards. would you mind sending a copy of this to my email account so i could play with it and see if it's something i can incorporaite into my own rig? kingnor@hotmail.com that would be great of you, i can send mine if you want to try it out too. I could try sending it, but the file is over 40 megs (lotta polygonal detail) - can your account handle that? And you can avoid having the leg spin like that by setting up a Pole Vector constraint. For that, you need the IK handle and a Locator. Select the IK handle, select the locator, activate the constraint. Now your knee will always point at the locator.
KingNor Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 i have a pole vector constraint enabled, it just doesn't behave the way you're describing, my account can handle 40 megs, please send :-) I can't wait to see this, if it works thats exactly what i need to figure out. your rig looks a little more advanced than mine i'd really appreciate looking at it.
Gammera Posted November 20, 2004 Posted November 20, 2004 Topic slipped half way down page one!!! So BUMP!!!
Knight26 Posted November 20, 2004 Posted November 20, 2004 I love that shot, have a larger render of it?
DatterBoy Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 RODAVAN, If you're looking, we've not been able to convert your OBJ files of the Q Rau and wanted to know if it would be possible for you to export it to something else. :Dat
Rodavan Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 Hi DAT - Yes , I succesfully converted to Maya 6 (Poly)format , not fiinished yet , it wil be ready by friday 19th Nov 2004 . The file is 21Mb big sofar , still a very high res model , I am trying to get it smaller
DatterBoy Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 Thanks RODAVAN, KingNor says he can have it rigged in a day since it's such a simple animation. Can't wait to see our stuff move. Our thread keeps slippin...
assaultor Posted November 25, 2004 Posted November 25, 2004 Hi guys, i have redo the textures for the previous model i have done. Basically rush this for an exhibition. Here's the thread at cgtalk Macross YF-19 Rework
DatterBoy Posted November 25, 2004 Posted November 25, 2004 Been following that on CG Talk. Truly excellent. :Dat
Brianw76 Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 Hi all, long time no post. Finally got a break from work over the holiday weekend and had some free time to do some modeling. Hopefully work will slow down like it normally does this time of year and i'll get more chances to work on stuff.
Doktor Gonzo Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 Brian! Great to see you back, and nice helmet! Give us some more cool stuff soon....
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