Dobber Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 (edited) It's because of the last Podcast that makes me think the Peg might not make it to next season. That was not a spoiler for anyone who hasn't heard the podcast, it's just a feeling. I really hope she is around for a while though, because I reall like the design. Here is a profile draft I did of the Pegasus, the lower one is a modification that another member did to see what it would look like. http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/451/pegas...cstretch7zr.jpg The whole topic can be read here if you are interested. http://www.starshipmodeler.net/cgi-bin/php...pic.php?t=34624 Chris Edited January 22, 2006 by Dobber
Duke Togo Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 Actually, my impression from the podcast that the Pegasus was certainly going to be staying around. He purposefully wants to go against what is expected.
Knight26 Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 Nice pic dobber but I always got the impression that there were two launch tube levels stacked on the pegasus
Dobber Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Actually, my impression from the podcast that the Pegasus was certainly going to be staying around. He purposefully wants to go against what is expected. 363073[/snapback] I agree with you, in resurection ship pt2 podcast he said it, it's just after the last podcast and how the episode ended is why I get that feeling. I hope I'm wrong though.
Dobber Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Nice pic dobber but I always got the impression that there were two launch tube levels stacked on the pegasus 363079[/snapback] Thanks Knight, I've tried to post a screen cap I have but it's high res and my stupid dial up can't get it to attach, but if you watch the episodes Pegasus or Resurection ship pt1, when the vipers are launching, you can see the alternating tubes on one level....which then leads to the problem of how that is actually done because they are all on the same deck but one is "right-side up" and then the next one is "up-side down". Chris
myk Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 I was watching the series premiere when one of my valkyries fell off of a shelf and onto my head. I then started to wonder why Vipers don't have missile systems?
Knight26 Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Vipers do have missiles, they are shown, but not used much, they carry them internally maybe 2-4?
Seven Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 It's because of the last Podcast that makes me think the Peg might not make it to next season. That was not a spoiler for anyone who hasn't heard the podcast, it's just a feeling. I really hope she is around for a while though, because I reall like the design. Here is a profile draft I did of the Pegasus, the lower one is a modification that another member did to see what it would look like.http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/451/pegas...cstretch7zr.jpg The whole topic can be read here if you are interested. http://www.starshipmodeler.net/cgi-bin/php...pic.php?t=34624 Chris 363051[/snapback] Do you have one of the Galactica for comparison? I couldn't really tell the differences from whats in the show.
myk Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Vipers do have missiles, they are shown, but not used much, they carry them internally maybe 2-4? 363127[/snapback] That's too bad. Watching that series premiere, that first Galactica Viper squad may have been spared had they launched missiles instead charging in Braveheart style...
Graham Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Vipers do have missiles, they are shown, but not used much, they carry them internally maybe 2-4? 363127[/snapback] The number of missiles a Viper MKII carries internally is mentioned in the Battlestar Galactica Official Companion Book. I'll have to go double-check when I get back home, but IIRC, it is 8 missiles. Graham
myk Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Come to think of it, I don't recall the Galactica ever using any missiles either, at least, the ammunition emanating from the Galactica doesn't look like missiles. Are missiles just out of style, or is it an FX budget restraint? I'm not a military tactician, but I'd be using long range missiles before autocannons or flak guns...
Knight26 Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 No you see missiles, look at the smoke plumes, they arc, but missiles are not its primary armament, probably used sparingly since they are harder to produce.
azrael Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Most of the time, Galactica has been on the defensive and has had very little use of it's missiles. We saw them being used with Pegasus, but we haven't seen them elsewhere since I don't think they would need missiles versus fighters, where flak and guns are better.
Dobber Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 In "Hand of God" you can actually see the missiles under the vipers wings. They are really hard to spot but another forum I visit had a big discussion over this with screen caps and everything. The missiles looked like cropped Aim-9's. Chris
Gaijin Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Vipers do have missiles, they are shown, but not used much, they carry them internally maybe 2-4? 363127[/snapback] The number of missiles a Viper MKII carries internally is mentioned in the Battlestar Galactica Official Companion Book. I'll have to go double-check when I get back home, but IIRC, it is 8 missiles. Graham 363150[/snapback] Hehe, I just got that book 2 nights ago..Yep, 8 according to the book.
DeathHammer Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 At work so don't have time for a full reply, but doesn't the military exist to protect civilians? If not, you're talking Sparta, right? Well, thats a pretty knotty question, one that Moore probably uses to create discussion for the show that parallels real life. There was a pretty interesting scene with Adama and Roslin somewhere in Season 1 where there was trouble on one of the ships and Adama is reluctant to send his forces in to restore order. Then Roslin says the Colonial Fleet is all anyone has left. Adama pops off a good quote - There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people. In the case of BSG, the Colonial Fleet protects and polices the civilians because they are the only organized trained force left. It appears Adama has reservations about taking this role, but its the complicated situation again where questions about whats best for the people ( Adamas point) is countered by questions of pure survival ( Roslins point) Which is kind of odd and interesting at the same time because you'd probably think the positions would be reversed on that point. I think Adama point is shown again with Cain. She will do whatever it takes to win, but at what point do you become a bigger liability to your people hunting the enemy than the actual enemy itself? At what point do the people used to democracy get frustrated by not having a say in their own survival? Before he died, Mario Puzo wrote some interesting commentary on the idea of justice/policing the masses in The Godfather. There was the dirty Police Captain McCluskey, who derived his power from the people, but at the same time held them in contempt because they constantly subverted his power and the ability to do real good. I'm guessing Puzo uses this to explain McCluskeys corruption and why he was on the take from the Mob. I see Cain that way, her personal power came from the pre war Fleet and the Colonies. But at the same time she holds contempt for the leftover civilians, they slow her down, they complicate the already burdensome issue of survival. Suddenly it becomes complicated - whether a society keeps its virtues bcause there are no more Cains. But you wonder if those virtues are a byproduct of the basic survival that those Cains have provided. Even though I didn't like the Starbuck / Cain dynamic and how Cain storyline was set up to further marginalize both Adamas, it would have been interesting to have seen her long term effects on the fleet if she survived at least until the end of Season 2.
Graham Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Most of the time, Galactica has been on the defensive and has had very little use of it's missiles. We saw them being used with Pegasus, but we haven't seen them elsewhere since I don't think they would need missiles versus fighters, where flak and guns are better. 363213[/snapback] Realistically speaking, missiles would be the prefered first line of defence against enemy fighters due to their longer range than guns. Graham
Graham Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Vipers do have missiles, they are shown, but not used much, they carry them internally maybe 2-4? 363127[/snapback] Here's the scan of the Viper MKII page from the BSG Official Companion Book. Click on thumbnail to enlarge. Armament is listed as: - Dual Thraxon MEC-A6 30mm Mass Accelerator Cannons (MECs) capable of firing 20 rounds per second. 800 round ammunition magazine per gun 8 x HD-70 Lightning Javelin Missiles capable of carrying conventional or up to 50 megatons of nuclear warhead. I'm guessing that Galactica doesn't have a large stock of missiles, which is why the are used infrequently. I would imagine that it's much easier for the fleet to manufacture new cannon rounds than it is to make new missiles, especially the nukes. Graham
Anubis Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Isn't one reason the missles aren't being used much the fact the cylons can still jam the missles. they pretty much have to dumbfire them or they always stray off course.
azrael Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Isn't one reason the missles aren't being used much the fact the cylons can still jam the missles. they pretty much have to dumbfire them or they always stray off course. 363538[/snapback] Yeah, that too. Interesting...those missiles are variable yield warheads.
myk Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 If they can jam the missiles, why can't they affect the Vipers also? The level of technology between the Vipers and their missile systems can't be very different. I believe the appropriate reason for the Colonial's minimal use of missiles is their lack of capacity to produce them. Making cannon rounds is one thing, making a missile is another...
Dobber Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Vipers do have missiles, they are shown, but not used much, they carry them internally maybe 2-4? 363127[/snapback] Here's the scan of the Viper MKII page from the BSG Official Companion Book. Click on thumbnail to enlarge. Armament is listed as: - Dual Thraxon MEC-A6 30mm Mass Accelerator Cannons (MECs) capable of firing 20 rounds per second. 800 round ammunition magazine per gun 8 x HD-70 Lightning Javelin Missiles capable of carrying conventional or up to 50 megatons of nuclear warhead. I'm guessing that Galactica doesn't have a large stock of missiles, which is why the are used infrequently. I would imagine that it's much easier for the fleet to manufacture new cannon rounds than it is to make new missiles, especially the nukes. Graham 363487[/snapback] Cool picture, I didn't realize that book had that stuff in it! Any other pictures like the MK VII, Galactica, or Raptor. If so I may have to get it! Chris
azrael Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 If they can jam the missiles, why can't they affect the Vipers also? The level of technology between the Vipers and their missile systems can't be very different. I believe the appropriate reason for the Colonial's minimal use of missiles is their lack of capacity to produce them. Making cannon rounds is one thing, making a missile is another... 363565[/snapback] They did do that, back in the mini-series. They got out of that one by reverting back to an older software suite. One that wasn't as complex and less networked. Hence, they have to dumbfire the missiles. They can always try to fabricate new missiles. They constructed a fighter, why not missiles? If we put this all together, it sounds logical. Missiles may be better at long range, but if the enemy can jam the guidence, then that makes them combat ineffective. If they are dumbfired, then the enemy fighters can just avoid them, at long range. This would apply to the Vipers. Vipers would also have to fire them blind. They can't waste missiles like they do with their bullets since missiles are a bit more costly, resource-wise. And if the enemy can jam them, what's the point of wasting missiles on small targets when they could be saved for the big ones.
Zor Primus Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Meh, it was a fair episode. I'd say its a shame the show cannot have all two hour episodes, it'd probably do the writing more justice. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the OS have a splinter group of pacifists as well? Think they were vaped in an episode by the Cylons for coming out with a white flag. Don't think that'll happend here considering Six is the one in charge, Cylon conspiracy from within. Lots of ways to frag a fleet like that. I'd have to agree that the transplanting of the warhead was as simple as a Next-day letter, aren't there radioactive detection systems on these ships? Security? Oh they must be all guarding Boomer! I'll stop bitching, the fact the Roselyn has already put Baltar with Six sets the stage for his exile and hopefully maniacal turn to evil. Thats something to look forward to at least. To be honest I'd hate to see the Pegasus get blown away by the nuke, I am sure they'll have an episode for that crew soon enough.
myk Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 They can always try to fabricate new missiles. They constructed a fighter, why not missiles? I believe that missiles are too difficult to manufacture. As for constructing fighters, are you refering to the Blackbird? That was...corny, to say the least-a definite mistake on the part of the writers. I don't recall any instance that shows the Colonials are reproducing fighters. How could they? Where would they get the parts?
azrael Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 I believe that missiles are too difficult to manufacture. As for constructing fighters, are you refering to the Blackbird? That was...corny, to say the least-a definite mistake on the part of the writers. I don't recall any instance that shows the Colonials are reproducing fighters. How could they? Where would they get the parts? 363910[/snapback] Hey, this is TV... Why not?
myk Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 If they can jam the missiles, why can't they affect the Vipers also? The level of technology between the Vipers and their missile systems can't be very different. I believe the appropriate reason for the Colonial's minimal use of missiles is their lack of capacity to produce them. Making cannon rounds is one thing, making a missile is another... 363565[/snapback] They did do that, back in the mini-series. They got out of that one by reverting back to an older software suite. One that wasn't as complex and less networked. Hence, they have to dumbfire the missiles. The Colonials are the most fortunate creatures of creation then-all the Cylons have to do is sit back and pepper the Galactica with missile fire. The Colonials can merely wait for gun-range in futility. They can always try to fabricate new missiles. They constructed a fighter, why not missiles? Are you refering to the Blackbird? That whole bit is probably the corniest thing I've seen in the entire series, a definite mistake on the part of the writers. If Galactica is indeed reproducing fighters, where would they get the parts? I'll say again that making gun rounds is one thing, manufacturing missiles and fighters with complex engines and management systems is something else. I recall but one squadron of Mark II's on board when the Galactica first started running. If we put this all together, it sounds logical. Missiles may be better at long range, but if the enemy can jam the guidence, then that makes them combat ineffective. If they are dumbfired, then the enemy fighters can just avoid them, at long range. This would apply to the Vipers. Vipers would also have to fire them blind. They can't waste missiles like they do with their bullets since missiles are a bit more costly, resource-wise. And if the enemy can jam them, what's the point of wasting missiles on small targets when they could be saved for the big ones. The Cylons are dumb then-they just need to use missiles to overwhelm their hapless fleet... 363649[/snapback]
Graham Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 Agree that the whole enlisted man constructing Blackbird in the space of 1 ep (and it actually working) was beyond silly. Definitely a big mistake on the part of the writers. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the fleet's Flat Top salvage ship had the capability to construct new Vipers, but I just tried seaching for the info and couldn't find it again. But even if they do have the capability, doesn't mean they can use it if they don't have parts. Graham
myk Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) They can always try to fabricate new missiles. They constructed a fighter, why not missiles? If we put this all together, it sounds logical. Missiles may be better at long range, but if the enemy can jam the guidence, then that makes them combat ineffective. If they are dumbfired, then the enemy fighters can just avoid them, at long range. This would apply to the Vipers. Vipers would also have to fire them blind. They can't waste missiles like they do with their bullets since missiles are a bit more costly, resource-wise. And if the enemy can jam them, what's the point of wasting missiles on small targets when they could be saved for the big ones. 363649[/snapback] The Cylons are idiots then. They would merely have to bombard the Galactica with missile fire as the Colonials waited in futility for a gun-range encounter. I do remember that in the mini-series the Cylons jammed the heck out of the Colonial's combat systems. However, suddenly the Cylons are incapable of doing that now? If the combat systems of the Colonials are such that the Cylons are incapable of affecting them, wouldn't the missiles apply to them as well? I was just stating that Viper and missile computer systems can't be that far apart, and that there is no reason that missiles would be problematic now. As for producing fighters and missiles, you're not refering to the Blackbird, are you? That is the corniest part of the story to date, a definite mistake on the part of the writers. It would get even cornier if the Galactica is supposed to be reproducing fighters-a carrier would not have the resources to do that. All of this is just speculation, anyway. Missiles are probably too expensive to project, FX-budget wise, as we hardly see the Cylons ever using them, and who knows how the writers will eventually explain how the Colonials keep coming up with more Vipers, pilots and equipment. Realistically, they can't... Edited January 25, 2006 by myk
DeathHammer Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) I've never seen the Flat Top in an episode, but its on the website. Maybe its in some deep background shots that go by real quickly. Heres another oddity from the Production Art section. Not sure if these are the weapons batteries above the flight tubes or something else altogether. POTENTIAL SPOILERS FOR EP19/20 AHEAD*** http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/article.php?Article=2482 "Information on Battlestar Galactica's Season 2 cliffhanger was revealed on Shaunomac's Subject2Discussion show by none other than Koenigrules (aka Jim Iaccino) this Tuesday night, January 24, 2006 at 11:40 EST. Here are excerpts from the interview: Apparently, Boomer and Six propose an armistice and put some of the Galactica's officers and civilians within an internment-like camp on a planet. The humans cannot escape and if any of the fleet approach the planet, they will be nuked. Questions arise as to whether the Demand Peace pacifistic movement is involved in the armistice as civilians are mentioned. It was also speculated as to whether the Six model is really Gina, one of the Demand Peace agents revealed in Episode 212, "Epiphanies." Also rumors abound as to whether the Pegasus gets blown up, possibly by one of the nuclear devices that the Cylons possess. Could this be Baltar's device that was given to Gina (also shown in "Epiphanies")? Editing of this episode is still continuing, but it sounds like a dynamite story line to end Galactica's second season. Season 3 resumes filming on April 3 with the first batch of 10 episodes. An interim period will occur in August, and then filming will start on the final 10 episodes in September. The full interview with Koenigrules can be heard on ipod at the following link: http://podcasts.lvrocks.com/rss.aspx?channelid=5 " -------------- Found this. Short Cylon commercial that ran during the last episodes commercial break. Quality isn't great, but the overseas guys who are torrenting the show, the torrents probably cut the commercial out. http://s53.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0KCCUQC...T22DDZC9YSYTG75 Edited January 25, 2006 by DeathHammer
Graham Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 Anbody heard any more news of have any pics yet of the upcoming Hasbro BSG toy ships? Graham
LePoseur Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 No need to panic, it just means that Hasbro will be shipping the Battlestar ships in the same assortment as the Star Wars ones. I guess there'll also be Stargate toys in the mix as well.
Knight26 Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 The missile thing probably comes down to resources. A missile is hard and expensive to build, trust me I used to work on them. Whereas a bullet is relatively cheap, even HE rounds aren't that expensive to make by comparison. Also, the idea of jamming a missile is stupid. Unless the missile has an active uplink antennae or the cylons can somehow transmit their virus through the missiles radar it wouldn't work. And even if it did then just go with an IR seeker. In the end it probably comes down to what resources are you willing to expend on protection of the fleet? Do you build a number of bullets that are cheap and easy to build requiring minimal maintenance and manpower, or do you build missiles which require many more resources, and which you do not have adequate testing facilities for? You want to test a batch of bullets, you fire a couple. You want to test a batch of missiles, well then all you can do is cold checks on them due to wanting to save resources. Also am i the only one that finds it funny that that picture says the cannons are 30mm, and the rounds shown are all clearly 20mm vulcan rounds?
azrael Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 Realistically, they can't... 363921[/snapback] Again, this is TV...I didn't know they had to explain every frakin detail to you....
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