Gaijin Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 I think you guys need to take it to PM already. This now has nothing to do with the thread itself.
bsu legato Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Is that 'telling it like it is' enough for you? 361503[/snapback] It tells me that you have some serious anger issues. Turn it down a notch or two, why dontcha? If this is how you react to somebody calling bs on your posts on t3h interweb, I'd hate to see how you react to problems in real life.
LePoseur Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Man, bsu, wish I could help, but as I've had him on ignore for a while now, I don't really know what he's arguing about. Most underrated feature of the board if you ask me. Sometimes I start feeling as if I might be missing something good by blocking some people. But you know what? Then I go back, unblock them and quickly realize that I shouldn't really second guess myself that much. Try it, You'll like it.
Macross73 Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 (edited) i haven't seen every sinlge episode but i'm keeping up. my question is we've seen the military and the Presidency. What about the civilians? 50k refugees and we see very little of them. in the old show the military and civilians had significant contact with each other. Also the ongoing bakstabbing, Starbucks speech at the funeral for example ... I'd like to see them them more unified. Edited January 18, 2006 by Macross73
DeathHammer Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 It tells me that you have some serious anger issues. Turn it down a notch or two, why dontcha? If this is how you react to somebody calling bs on your posts on t3h interweb, I'd hate to see how you react to problems in real life Dude, I don't even know you. Again, so what are you going to do about it all? Thats right. Nothing. You have exactly zero control in how people participate here at MacrossWorld. But if it makes you feel better to tell strangers on the Internet what they 'should' or 'should not' do to make you feel better, then so be it. Out of respect for the MW Staff and the people who just want to talk about BSG, I'm going to just focus any future replies here about the show. I generally like the people here and enjoy the board so I'm not looking to help get this thread locked down to the detriment of guys who have nothing to do with this. bsu legato, whatever you choose to do or say or not say at this point, is entirely up to you. --------------------- Back to BSG, two gifs of BattleStar/BaseStar combat from the last episode http://syntaxi.net/mark/battlestar/first.gif http://syntaxi.net/mark/battlestar/second.gif
Macross73 Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Great gifs I really wish they had shown more of that on the show!
azrael Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 i haven't seen every sinlge episode but i'm keeping up.my question is we've seen the military and the Presidency. What about the civilians? 50k refugees and we see very little of them. 361549[/snapback] "Colonial Day" was a good start with the civilians. Much of this season has been focused on the the primary cast. I'm sure they would want to throw in civilians, but they would need scenes for that, and so far, there really haven't been any scenes that involve lots of extras.
myk Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 (edited) Back to BSG, two gifs of BattleStar/BaseStar combat from the last episodehttp://syntaxi.net/mark/battlestar/first.gif http://syntaxi.net/mark/battlestar/second.gif 361569[/snapback] Wow, that's really cool. Too bad we can't have animated avatars anymore... As for playing "what if" with Apollo, I had sincerely hoped that the surviving Cylons would have picked him up before FTL-ing. He would have then returned to the humans in a state of confusion or one of absolute evil, ala Tekkaman. At this point however, the only way his character can go is the "trying to find himself" route... Edited January 18, 2006 by myk
Zor Primus Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Guess I should listen to podcasts then Ya know, looking at how well these Battlestars squared off against the Baseships one would wonder how it would have gone if the Cylons and Colonies had gone at it without the virus that crippled the fleet. I know, I know...the attack happend a long time ago, but in seeing how overwhelmed the Baseships were by an older model Battlestar and one that probably isn't exactly 100% I think there was a good chance on even terms the Cylons probably would have never attacked, let alone win. Just a thought, what do you guys think?
Lindem Herz Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Guess I should listen to podcasts then  Ya know, looking at how well these Battlestars squared off against the Baseships one would wonder how it would have gone if the Cylons and Colonies had gone at it without the virus that crippled the fleet. I know, I know...the attack happend a long time ago, but in seeing how overwhelmed the Baseships were by an older model Battlestar and one that probably isn't exactly 100% I think there was a good chance on even terms the Cylons probably would have never attacked, let alone win. Just a thought, what do you guys think? 361676[/snapback] Guess I should have waited until now to post my "Cylon attack was Pearl Harbor, only better" theory. And after that battle, I'm more convinced about it than ever. Oh, heck, I'll just link it, going back 10 pages just for this is a major no no. Quite a long read
Zor Primus Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 (edited) Guess I should have waited until now to post my "Cylon attack was Pearl Harbor, only better" theory. And after that battle, I'm more convinced about it than ever.Oh, heck, I'll just link it, going back 10 pages just for this is a major no no. Quite a long read 361684[/snapback] Good read and its similar to what I was thinking. So what we have here is a new question which I think you also asked. How strong could the Cylon foothold be over the Colonies? The resistance on Caprica cannot be alone, I find it hard to believe that they are the only survivors. The nukes the Cylons launched were mostly military targets, many cities must have survived. Unless of coarse the Cylons razed most of the smaller Colonies completely leaving only the larger ones somewhat intact. Edited January 18, 2006 by Zor Primus
azrael Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 How strong could the Cylon foothold be over the Colonies? The resistance on Caprica cannot be alone, I find it hard to believe that they are the only survivors. ... 361690[/snapback] Strong enough. There are probably more resistance groups out there, but the problem is they aren't organized and they are scattered about hiding in remote areas outside of the cities. It was by chance that Helo and Starbuck even found this group of humans.
DeathHammer Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 I don't know if the last battle is a fair judge of what BattleStars can do to BaseStars. The BaseStars were clearly covering the Ressurrection Ship so it could jump and the Galactica/Pegasus had the element of surprise. I think if the two BaseStars were alone, they might have jumped away at the moment of attack. The Cyclons appear to be chasing the fleet to keep them moving, I don't know how it would fit in their long term design to stay toe to toe and potentially kill off humans who are part of the 'plan' From a tactical standpoint, the way the Galactica/Pegasus jumped in real close probably negated the Cylons ability to use nukes on them, again I doubt the toasters would want to inadvertently damage their Ressurrection Ship or themselves that way.
bsu legato Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Try it, You'll like it. 361548[/snapback] I see what you mean. Makes things much more palatable.
kalvasflam Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Interesting note, I think the information so far shows the Basestar more along the line of an aircraft carrier type ship than a ship of the line. The Battlestars on the other hand seem to be a gigantic hybrid. But not nearly as many fighters as a basestar. Too bad we'll never fully appreciate the various types that the colonial navy had. After all, the concept of just having a battlestar doesn't make much sense. There has to be smaller type military vessels out there beyond Raptor and Vipers.
Opus Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 How strong could the Cylon foothold be over the Colonies? The resistance on Caprica cannot be alone, I find it hard to believe that they are the only survivors. ... 361690[/snapback] Strong enough. There are probably more resistance groups out there, but the problem is they aren't organized and they are scattered about hiding in remote areas outside of the cities. It was by chance that Helo and Starbuck even found this group of humans. 361707[/snapback] I think it's pretty feasable that the Cylons are streching it kinda thin. They're trying to occupy 12 whole planets at once. That would take massive resources and manufacturing capacity.
azrael Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 I think it's pretty feasable that the Cylons are streching it kinda thin. They're trying to occupy 12 whole planets at once. That would take massive resources and manufacturing capacity. 361821[/snapback] They've had what...40 years to think about it. Another thing is, they could have left just survey and research crews on the planets with some security detail. Pockets of resistance are probably considered insignificant comapred to Colonial Fleet.
Opus Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 I think it's pretty feasable that the Cylons are streching it kinda thin. They're trying to occupy 12 whole planets at once. That would take massive resources and manufacturing capacity. 361821[/snapback] They've had what...40 years to think about it. Another thing is, they could have left just survey and research crews on the planets with some security detail. Pockets of resistance are probably considered insignificant comapred to Colonial Fleet. 361834[/snapback] It'd be kinda hard to hide that big of an army. The Cylons don't seem to be very tactically sophisticated. Except for the agents in the fleet they seem to practice the Horation Nelson's "damn the manuvers, go straight at them" theory of warfare. I wonder if that's intentional or a shortcoming of the writers.
LePoseur Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 (edited) I'd say it's a little of both. On one hand, it's a way to show how the Cylons are evolving (similar to the Inbits in Mospeada), but on the other, I think a lot of it has to due with the writers not wanted to box themselves into a corner that makes them have to think of a way to get the Colonials out by the skin of their teeth every episode. Then again, it could just be that they don't know good tactics from a hole in the wall. Edited January 19, 2006 by LePoseur
myk Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 It'd be kinda hard to hide that big of an army. The Cylons don't seem to be very tactically sophisticated. Except for the agents in the fleet they seem to practice the Horation Nelson's "damn the manuvers, go straight at them" theory of warfare. 361859[/snapback] Big army or not, how would the Colonials know either way? When the Cylons returned after 40 years humanity had no idea as to what was about to happen. The only perspective of the Colonials in regards to the Cylons is that of Galactica, Pegasus and their "ragtag" fleet, and they have been on the run since episode 1. The Cylons could have legions, and no one would ever know of it. It has been 40 years after all and we're talking about machines who have nothing better to do...
DeathHammer Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 If the Colonial Fleet saw 40 years of uninterrupted peace, including no human vs human conflict, theres arguably not going to be very much innovation. With the Cylons apparently gone, it wouldn't be hard to see President Adar and his predecessors want to fund more schools versus more BattleStars. No threat = No need to innovate = No money for the Colonial Fleet. Obviously factors that aren't known would make a difference - How many BattleStars were in operation during the height of the war 40 years ago? Its possible the 120 BattleStars during the miniseries could represent a fraction of previous ship strength. - Since the Cylons are part organic, how long does it take to build a Cylon from scratch? Do Cylons repair damaged ships or just build new ones to replace losses due to attrition? - Are the Cylons limiting their numbers, not because of resources, but so they don't repeat the mistakes humans made? The humans made Cylons and it bit them in the ass later. Humanity underestimated its own creation. I would think the Cylons would be twice as wary of building too many complex/advanced cylons that might eventually turn against their own. I believe this was a plot point for some of the Terminator novels. At what point does SkyNet create bigger and better Terminators to send back to kill John Conner and risk making a machine you can no longer control? - Was waiting 40 years just a resource move? (i.e. do the Cylons need this long to assemble a large enough force to wipe out humanity) Or was it a purely strategic move? ( All the veterans of the war earlier are Adamas/Tighs age. That the Colonial Fleet probably had so few battle hardened veterans around probably aided in the confusion/chaos/clusterf.uck factor during the miniseries. While Cain might done ok considering her situation, other pencil pushing Commanders might have cracked under real fire) Well, from a historical standpoint, during WW2, the Russians used the 'human wave' attack theory. Basically they sent wave after wave of cannon fodder towards the enemy. The raw numbers they had over the German Army was one advantage they possessed. The Germans however, even til the end of the war, continued to train its officers at length compared to other nations before sending them into the meat grinder. I guess the basic idea was fewer more competent officers were more useful than rushed less competent ones in greater numbers. Certain principles and tactics used by the Germans in WW2 are still copied in modern military forces today. I would guess the Cylons have numerical superiority. The BSG website says BaseStars can carry from 250 to 400 Cylon Raiders. Looks like the strategy was to simply swarm the enemy until it couldn't hold out any longer. I was always taught that attacking a defended position, even with the element of surprise, it was essential to maintain a 3 to 1 ratio. I.E. for every defender, you better have three guys attacking. I don't think the Cylons would have hedged everything on their virus attack, my personal guess is they probably had the numbers to win via attrition as well. Even if the Cylons were spread thin, I'm not sure they would have a hard time holding the Colonies. Theres radiation poisoning. Communications systems are down. Pockets of resistance seen so far only have small arms and limited/no military training or personnel. And while humans get sick, get tired, get weaker, the Cylons can just keep going. And with Cylon air superiority in the Colonies, I think any resistance would be hard pressed to last for long.
Seven Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 What parts of the human form Cylons are mechanic? Are they like Terminators with an endoskeleton and fleshy "parts" (obviously for Sharon, or else Helo had a helluva time) or are they like Bishop from Aliens? Couldn't they just run a metal detector over the whole population to filter out the sleepers?
mechaninac Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 What parts of the human form Cylons are mechanic? Are they like Terminators with an endoskeleton and fleshy "parts" (obviously for Sharon, or else Helo had a helluva time) or are they like Bishop from Aliens? Couldn't they just run a metal detector over the whole population to filter out the sleepers? 362393[/snapback] I think they are bio-engineered and nearly 100% flesh and blood with a very complex, small, and mostly undetectable cybernetic component which allows them to interface with technological systems. From what we've seen on screen so far, the human type Cylons are just that: human; they bleed red blood, they can be killed through physical trauma, they can reproduce biologically, but they are stronger than the average human of the same body type and mass, are vulnerable to some forms of radiation that do not affect humans and invulnerable to others that would kill a person in short order, and can directly link to electronic systems. So far, you can say that the human form Cylon is a conundrum.
Duke Togo Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 By the looks of things, I'd say they are more like Replicants. Bio-engineered beings. If any part of them were metal, they would be extremely easy to detect. And here we are again, back to human Cylons being alot like Replicants...
Knight26 Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 At this point I think that the human form cylons are definitely bio-engineered but with an inbuilt nano-tech system. The reason i say this is becuase they have shown the ability to do certain things that are beyond human capability, sixes glowing spine, sharon able to link with a fiber optic cable, the fact that they can transmitt their personna out of their bodies. This all points to some ability to reconfigure parts of the body, and an inbuild nano-forge would work. It wouldn't even take much, each one is injected with nannites that it can control, the nannites continue to build others and then can rebuild and repair the body as necessary. The nannites could also have inbuilt protocols that say if the host dies to form some form of bio-transmitter to automatically send out their consciouness, that or the cylons have some form of telepathic link.
Gaijin Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 What's a "replicant"? From another show or film I assume.
Hurin Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 Found this interesting review at NRO. Here's a snippet: It is somewhat ironic, then, to see the Sci-Fi Channel, a network which often seems devoted to the pulpy and lowbrow, serve up Battlestar Galactica, a show about spaceships and killer robots that is also arguably the most potent, dramatically vibrant series on television. An unflinching examination of how the military, government, family, and religion interact in the fragile ecosystem of society, it as morally and intellectually serious as it is thrilling.
Duke Togo Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 What's a "replicant"? From another show or film I assume. 362402[/snapback] Blade Runner
Gaijin Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 (edited) What's a "replicant"? From another show or film I assume. 362402[/snapback] Blade Runner 362412[/snapback] Never saw it. Well, I saw a couple of mins of it a few times...I don't remember any of it. So replicants were bio created people...ok. On that note: I saw an episode of Seinfeld once that had people talking on a couch making funnies about a friend. I swear I've seen that before HUNDREDS of times on other sitcoms. Edited January 20, 2006 by Gaijin
Dobber Posted January 21, 2006 Posted January 21, 2006 One thing I thought about is that Baltar "said" that he could only tell the human cylon was synthetic after he cremated parts of the remains.....but he already knew about the human form cylons because of six...and he was looking for a scape goat at the time.....so maybe he was just making it up and they are actually easier to identify. He's already demonstrated that he isn't really interested in identifying cylons. Chris
Duke Togo Posted January 21, 2006 Posted January 21, 2006 What ever happened to Baltar getting ahold of the nuclear warhead needed to build his Cylon detector. That whole plotline went nowhere.
Noriko Takaya Posted January 21, 2006 Posted January 21, 2006 Well, my cable box has just decidedly taken a dump on me and died. So I am going to miss tonight's episode, which will be on in just under 2 hours.
Gaijin Posted January 21, 2006 Posted January 21, 2006 (edited) What ever happened to Baltar getting ahold of the nuclear warhead needed to build his Cylon detector. That whole plotline went nowhere. 362455[/snapback] They gave him the nuke...he even mentioned that they were all arguing around it in Ep 9 of season one, "Tigh Me Up, Tigh me Down" in his lab. Edited January 21, 2006 by Gaijin
Recommended Posts