BattleStar Galactica

[Mechwarrior]

Yah, I my self never understood that either, throwing out cliche's like reality factor? I understand people have opinions, but come on, it is just a show. If you have that much time to post about a show constantly, then maybe it is not the show that has the problem, lol. However, i too am looking forward to tonight's show, can't believe how fast the season went by!

Edited September 24, 2005 by Mechwarrior

[Duke Togo]

Crap, just crap. They've goen from war hero and living legend to tyrant who rules with fear and violence. What was once like the Millennium Falcon flying in to save the day on the Death Star run is something more like Mutiny On the Bounty. Meh, what a load of crap.

[Uxi]

Don't forget the complete lack of charisma.

[Axelay]

I would like to go on record as saying that COMMANDER Cain should pimp slap ADMIRAL Cain.

"I'd smack that gall monging wench but good, by Kobol."

*sigh*

I am not happy that the Pegasus is a ship of a-holes and Cain is coming across as a tyrant.

[bsu legato]

"By this time, my lungs were aching for air..."

[Anubis]

One episode and eveyrone aboard the Pegasus needs to die. Except maybt their new XO that talked to Tigh. He seemed ok at least.

It's like that ship went on the complete opposite path the Galactica did. While the Galacitca fleet tried to keep some sense of normalcy and humanity, the Pegasus took our worst aspects and firmly went to a militaristic violent cruel state of darkness.

Who else thought Boldoza when she showed the pic of the BIG cylon ship? Wonder what it is. Ideas tossed around were Command and Control or Factory. Wonder which is right?

The end shot was just holy crap.

The final enemy of man is man.

Massive props to Adama for knowing when to draw the BS line. He bit his lip when the transfer orders came, and suffered though Cain's badmouthing his crew. Saying crap about Tigh was fighting words. Adama stood up right when he should have though for his guys so good man. The dude that died deserved worse than what he got.

Edited September 24, 2005 by Anubis

[Hikuro]

I liked that episode, now that was pretty much the season finale' wasn't it?

[Anubis]

Until January. It'll be a long few months.

[Major Johnathan]

I have mixed feelings about Pegasus. I'm not really familiar with the original show, but I get the jist that Cain was an all around good guy.(I watched back in the day, but I was quite young.)

The pros; It was great to have a reality check for Adama and what's been happening under his command. A 'real' military ship that shows up and says "What the hell were you thinking?" For Cain to assign Apollo to her ship a while would seem very realistic, though I don't think you'd want to keep Apollo and Starbuck as a pair. You split 'troublemakers'. The lack of respect for edjucation secretary Roslin pleased me, I just don't like her, not after season 2. Also, the crack to Apollo about being a Daddy's boy, about time someone said that.

The Cons; They made Cain and her crew tyrants to an extreme degree. It doesn't fit that Cain's all by the book, but she allows her crew to rape a female Cylon for fun and laughs? That's a great way to keep military decorum... So the whole stand off with her about to execute the Chief and what's his name, seems really forced. These two ships meet against all odds after months on the run, and within hours they're ready to go to war with each other?

[Anubis]

Sometimes it takes 5 minutes to decide someone is a total a-hole. That's what happened here. Only it's a whole ship of jerks.

[Major Johnathan]

One episode and eveyrone aboard the Pegasus needs to die.  Except maybt their new XO that talked to Tigh.  He seemed ok at least.

331095[/snapback]

I liked him too, I remember him as 'Stenz' from L.A. Confidential(Russel Crow's partner in the beginning). Cool movie.

[Noriko Takaya]

My overall impression of this episode was "meh!" I did like it, but I remember the Cain of old, and this new version had me hating her the first ten minutes into her introduction. However, it's coming on again in a few minutes. Maybe I will watch it again to see if my impression of her changes.

[Effect]

One episode and eveyrone aboard the Pegasus needs to die.  Except maybt their new XO that talked to Tigh.  He seemed ok at least.

331095[/snapback]

I liked him too, I remember him as 'Stenz' from L.A. Confidential(Russel Crow's partner in the beginning). Cool movie.

331101[/snapback]

Yeah. He seemed like the only decent one there. Maybe also the guy that is Pegasus's deck chief. Yet I'm not done with the episode. The second Admiral Cain stepped off that shuttle I knew I didn't like her or most of her crew.

I haven't seen much of the original series but I did get to see some episodes a few weeks ago on the SciFi channel of the original that dealt with the Pegasus. The original Cain was better I feel. I just want someone to slap that stupid smirk off this new Cain's face.

Way to go Helo and the Chief as well. Just wish they were able to beat on those guards some more.

Edited September 24, 2005 by Effect

[Anubis]

The deck chief was cool too. Aeronautical engineer (he'd be useful to keep) who got drafted into being the deck chief. He can live too, making a whopping 2 that can live out of the entire ship.

[Effect]

Baltar is still on the Pegasus right? Did Adama just forget about him or doesn't he know he's still there. I mean, you launch an attack to get your crew back. Last thing you want to forget is someone else, doubt Cain would just allow Baltar to just leave as well. She doesn't seem to care much about the actual government from what I can see so she isn't going to care that Baltar is the Vice Pres, just that he's from Galactica and supports them.

Edited September 24, 2005 by Effect

[Mechwarrior]

Great episode, was very intense at moments, making it even better. Can't really compare Cain of old and Cain of new, since so many other elements of the show have changed. I do like how the strict military discipline clashes with the lackadaisical Galactica. I can understand how the leadership would not mesh. I wonder if the President has direct control over Marines in BSG, that would be a trump card to offset the balance of conflict for sure. Damn, now i cant wait for January to get here

[Seven]

Oooh man guys! I'm at work until midnight and I'm itching to watch the rerun. I'm not too surprised about the negative remarks about the episode already though. Maybe it won't seem so bad for me since I never liked the old Cain in the first place. The thought of a ship full of tyrants doesn't seem very believable, I mean, a group of asses is believable, but a whole ship?!

[Gaijin]

I liked that episode, now that was pretty much the season finale' wasn't it?

331097[/snapback]

Mid season finale..the season is 20 episodes, the final 10 comes back in January.

I still liked it although it was much too short...without seeing the other half , it's hard to say how it would pan out. The episode was supposed to be a 90 min one but Sci Fi said either 2 hour show or 1 hour one...so they had to trim it back, cutting 13 mins from it.

January.........so far away.

[Skippy438]

Hahaha, I love how there were so many comments on this thread about how Adama should just take command and declare martial law, etc. Yet when Cain comes out, who has declared martial law and is doing things like forcibly drafting people (namely the Pegusus deck chief) people complain that she's a tyrant. I loved the episode, it shows what Galactica might've been like had Roslyn not talked some sense into Adama, and simply because it sets up so much for the continuation of the season in January. There will be nothing but speculation until the SkyOne eps start hitting bittorrent.

[Die, Alien Scum!]

Here I was bitching about how the characters on the Galactica are unlikeable, so the writers put in a whole ship full of c**k-s**kers just to make them look good and throw it right in my face! Bastards. Okay, yeah, I get it now... the Galactica crew is likeable. At least compared to that of the Pegasus. Hell, guys like Tom Zarek are pretty likeable compared to the Pegasus crew!

[Gaijin]

Here I was bitching about how the characters on the Galactica are unlikeable, so the writers put in a whole ship full of c**k-s**kers just to make them look good and throw it right in my face! Bastards. Okay, yeah, I get it now... the Galactica crew is likeable. At least compared to that of the Pegasus. Hell, guys like Tom Zarek are pretty likeable compared to the Pegasus crew!

331141[/snapback]

That's so true...even though the Galactica's crew is so screwed up...the things they've done you view like stuff your family did and so you accept them...then you have Cain come in and she points out how screwed up you are and you hate the bitch for it even though she's right...but she's talking about the people you've bonded with and you wind up hating her more. It's an interesting take on TOS Cain...

will she still go out in a blaze of glory fighting the 2 Basestars trying to destroy that strange target (Baltar's Base ship in TOS)??

[EXO]

Wow... that was a disturbing scene concerning Sharon, The Chief and Helo...

Yeah, The Pegasus had a bunch of jerks. But aside from practically skipping the whole trial, I thought Cain was pretty right on about what she said. Imagine reading Adama's logs without seeing any of the episodes... what a bunch of nuts the Galactica is. And for Adama to let a school teacher take command of the civilians. I'd be looking at the commander like he's lost it too.

Great episode...

January? crap!

[Seven]

Ok, just watched the episode, and here's my take on it. The people that are complaining about Cain should realize that Moore probably did not intend to make a carbon copy of the Pegasus episodes of the original with similar characters. They may use the names and similar situations as homages, but the similarities are superficial.

The differences between the Cain group and Adama group reminded me of another war story that had similar problems - Platoon. The differences between Cain's command style and Adama's was reminiscent of the viciousness of Tom Berenger's versus the relative calm of Willem Dafoe. The rape scene was shocking, which reminded me of the part in Platoon where one of Berenger's soldiers caved in the head of the mentally retarded villager. War brings out the worst in people, and the eminent extinction of a race during wartime would probably be even more amplified.

I do see Cain's point of view when watching the unruliness of Adama's crew. I mean, how likely would it be for a CAG and pilot in a real military to question an Admiral's transfer order directly to their Commander in the brash way that Lee and Kara came off as? It was almost refreshing to have them put in their place and shut up for once by the more professional Pegasus CAG.

My feelings on Cain? I had a tough time buying Michelle Forbes as the superior officer over Adama. She could have done much worse though. The thing that got me over it was thinking about how many times I've seen a clearly incompetent younger person be promoted faster up the ladder than the more productive senior workers due to either brown nosing or some other circumstance. Once I reasoned that just because she's an Admiral doesn't necessarily mean she's the better officer.

Ultimately, the episode had this Platoon/Crimson Tide feeling to me, and that's not so bad.

[sabretooth]

now we wait.....

if there is a speech about horses and training methods i'll flip out

[kalvasflam]

Great episode, I guess Cain doesn't have a kid in this case. But it's a great episode, sure as heck beats the original.

There are lots of similarities to be sure, but having Cain as the superior officer make things far more interesting. Glad to see the stealth viper getting some use.

The interesting thing is seeing the difference in operating styles. Cain is essentially Adama unchecked, as if he just had the Galactica, but no civies to tow around. Adama essentially was stuck with a choice initially, Cain wasn't saddled with much of a choice, just picked up a few survivors, then it's back to instincts, kill the bastards where they live.

Cain probably has done well by herself, but she didn't have to sheperd around a bunch of useless civie ships. Darn, have to wait till January to see resolution. Too bad we won't see Vipers vs Vipers.

[Major Johnathan]

Hahaha, I love how there were so many comments on this thread about how Adama should just take command and declare martial law, etc. Yet when Cain comes out, who has declared martial law and is doing things like forcibly drafting people (namely the Pegusus deck chief) people complain that she's a tyrant. I loved the episode, it shows what Galactica might've been like had Roslyn not talked some sense into Adama, and simply because it sets up so much for the continuation of the season in January. There will be nothing but speculation until the SkyOne eps start hitting bittorrent.

331138[/snapback]

But I thought the parts about Cain drafting useful civilians and reassigning Apollo were right on. (But I stress, you would NOT keep him paired with Starbuck )

Where they turn Cain into a Tyrant is when she allows prisoners to be raped for the fun of it and her decision to summarily execute 2 crewmen without holding a military tribunal. Clearly the writer(s) decided to go overboard with Cain so they can make Adama and Roslin look more rational. She goes well beyond Martial Law, more into vigilante territory.

What sense did Roslin talk into Adama? Cain proved it was entirely possible to turn and fight the Cylons and apparently do pretty well. They implied Adama was a bit uneasy with the comparsion to Galactica's fleeing and Pegasus' fighting.

It's kind of frustrating, it's a good show, but I think they've done real damage in the first half of seaon 2. They keep writing the main characters into forced, contrived scenarios for the sake of conflict. That and some very poor handling of the Romance sub-plots. (Sci-Fi does a really terrible job with Romance, that's not peculiar to BSG)

I had hoped Pegasus would right the ship, it hasn't.

[Dobber]

Holy Farking Shnit!!!! What a great episode!!!!!!!!!! I also think that not all of Cains crew can be as "Fanatical" as Cain, the CAG, and Thorne are, they are just the main ones that were shown. I found it ironic that Cain would point out all the negative things that have hapenned to Adama and the RTF, but is totally oblivious to the hanous acts that she and some members of her own crew have perpatrated. If the Pres. and or some other ships of the fleet try and stop the Peg. from openng fire on the Galactica, and Cain blows them off, that may be the straw that breaks the camels back and her crew finally says we've had enough. If she's quoting colonial law....the way Lee did in Bastille Day.....to justifiy her actions, then if she ignores an order from the pres. she looses all credability to justify her actions. The Pegasus semed like a Gang and Cain was their leader...kind of like that movie with Ray Liota when he went to that island prison, can't remember the name of it.

Gotta say that I really like the design of the Pegasus now.

Another thing. To me nothing justifies Rape and torture...however Six still demonstrates that the Cylons are so hypocrytical and blind to the fact that they are the same as we are in those NEGATIVE aspects. I mean, her race has nearly erradicated the Human Race and is currently "Raping" human beings and running medical experiments on them as well. It just kind of irked me is all, same with Boomer earlier this season, they are always so quik to point out how bad we are but have the blinders on to their own actions. Very Human.....guess that's the point

Chris

[Dobber]

As for how to run the Fleet....well...I kinda of agree with both sides. Realistically Martial Law would probably be need for a time. But we have to remember that this is a totally unique scenareo....the Military and the entire civilian population are forced to coexist. BOTH sides need to realise this and make consetions.

Chris

[justvinnie]

After missing some of the past episodes, gf demanded that I watch the finale with her. Must say I was pleasantly surprised. While I understand that under duress people will go to extremes, I have always felt that the BSG fleet went to the impractical end. The BSP fleet (can one ship be called a fleet?) went to the fanatic end. Because both sides are flawed, t interplay made the interactions more real then some of the past "drama" for me.

What really impressed me most about this series is the acting though. It's got some of the best talent around, even if many of them are unknowns until now.

However, there are a few points that I don't quite agree with on htis episode. How the fart did the BSP ever resupplied? We saw that the BSG couldn't go for two weeks without resupplying from the civilian ships and yet in the ep, the BSP resupplied the BSG. I find that hard to believe considering the BSP had no support ships. It's been months now, where the hell do they get their rations? So unless they had the trekkie replicators, I don't see how the ship could have made it this long. Admittedly they can scavenge fuel and parts from the destroy cyclon outposts and what nots, but we have seen very little evidence that such facilities maintain large numbers of human form cylons. They are mostly mechanical forms. As such they wouldn't have large rations supplies. Secondly, the BSP must have a shitload of spare Viper parts to be able to maintain active offensive military operations and still keep all their Vipers flying AND supply BSG. So either the cylons are rolling over for them or all the BSP are super invincible ace pilots, I don't see them lasting as long as they did and still maintain all those Vipers.

I also hated that Cain is a female. Not to go PC or anything but why does the psycho captain have to be a female? And being female, how could she condone raping of an enemy agent? I'm sorry, but I don't care how much I hate someone, there are certain morales that make me better than a beast. If I didn't feel comfortable with her on my ship, I would execute her. Allowing her to be the crew... toy is unacceptable. In the end I expect people to be reasonable and honorable. I didn't think that the BSG is reasonable but at least honorable. The BSP is neither reasonable or honorable.

vinnie

[justvinnie]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention I absolutely love the opening scene when Cain comes to the BSG. Who the hell goes on to someone else's ship fully armed? That's disrespect out right. When those armed soldier's started piling out and you could see the reaction on the BSG crew, that was really great subtle acting. And if you looked carefully enough, Cain is armed too. She remain armed even in Adama's private quarters!

vinnie

Edited September 24, 2005 by justvinnie

[Duke Togo]

The morning after, I wanted to add this... one of the reasons why the fans were clamoring for the Pegasus was because of the glory of it all in the original series. You wanted the Pegasus to make it, you wanted them to come out alive. And I believe the character of Cain would have been MUCH more effective if she were the living legend, a person who's Galactica's personel would have loved and adored no matter what she did. How could you question her, its the great Cain! They blew it, they absolutely ruined everything the character and the ship was to fans.

And maybe its just me, but did anyone else get the feeling that there is alot more to the story of the Pegasus than we know yet? Personally, I'd wager Cain tucked tail and ran, it wasn't a matter of survival. I think she's a coward. She's covering something up.

[Skippy438]

I kinda agree Duke. The way she FTLed away as quickly as she could. In response to the resupply question, the Pegasus is a much larger ship, and may maintain more facilities, or they could be pillaging any and every civilian ship they come across and absorbing them into their crew, most likely destroying the ships behind them to avoid leaving a trail. Did anybody else get the feeling that the Peg was a fierce looking ship, from the angles they were showing it. The Galactica looks friendly by comparison.

[chowyunskinny]

Ok, so all the vipers on the Pegasus seemed to be the new Mark VII's.

Been awhile since I watched the mini, but wasn't the Galactica able to survive the original Cylon hacking tactic because they had old Vipers and no networked computers?

They later retrofitted Apollo's Mark VII so it wouldn't be susceptible to the Cylon hack right?

So, the Pegasus seems to be a more current, more technologically advanced Battlestar, probably with a network.

Hmmm...so how did the Pegasus evade the Cylon hack tactic? Or when Cain mentioned she lost 700 men maybe it was to hacking and they figured it out after they jumped.

[chowyunskinny]

oh yeah, if anyone here is a fan of Frank Frazetta's work, here's some pics I found that he did for the Original BSG

[chowyunskinny]

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