BattleStar Galactica

[myk]

Yay! Starbuck and Anders are together again, yay! The people have found a planet to live on, yay! Tyrol is a maniac, yay!

And, they sent out a team of valuable pilots and aircraft (whose population is steadily declining), to rescue a half dozen guerilla fighters whose lives carry no meaning other than their past lives as champion pyramid ball players.

I don't know where the frak this series is going, but if they continue with episodes and story arcs that leave more questions than answers, not to mention plot holes and implausibilities, Roslyn won't be the only one losing popularity points. Now, I'm off to replay Cally's beating again...

Edited March 4, 2006 by myk

[Duke Togo]

I could be wrong, but from what I have seen, I'd say next week's episode has parts that take place perhaps months after this week's episode. Either that, or someone is having some sort of premonition/dream.

[Dobber]

Did anyone else listen to the podcast? NO SPOILERS!! RDM said that next week the show will lay it all on the line and do something that will take the show in a drastically new direction!!! His wife, who was in the background, said she didn't like what they do at first but that after a day or so of letting it sink in, it grew on her. I really want to know what the Frak happens!!!

Chris

[memnon]

I really want to know what the Frak happens!!!

Hehe don't we all?

[Dobber]

The whole Chief Tyrol with the Cylon Priest, well... that was more of that "where the hell did that come from" kinda stuff that we saw with Apollo floating in the water. It really didn't work for me.

376440[/snapback]

It was funny as hell though right? I always liked that actor, he knows how to handle humor well. Wasn't someone spoiling about him being the Cylon religious head? That's why I don't worry about them here - because they always seem to be off the mark.

376468[/snapback]

That was me, I did post a spoiler warning and highlight to read

We'll see though, the episode still has a second part.

Chris

Edited March 4, 2006 by Dobber

[Seven]

Amen to that. Sackhoff must have some good pull with the producers to talk them into taking the story in this direction which is such a non-story really. Why should we care about Anders and a hundred guerillas? How are the lives of 100 armed guerillas justified against the risk of lowering the defenses for a fleet of 40,000+ civilians? I don't think any qualified commander would allow such a wasteful allocation of resources.

The episode did feel a bit rough, like a bunch of ideas mashed together.

[Wes]

I think it's more of a moral-booster; you see, we still care about people, by risking your future to get a handful of them! I was thinking the least they could do is get some meds or something else important on the same trip. But they could use a few new Marines that have actually shot at something before. Plus it served as a plot device to find the planet - how else where they going to find it but by accident?

[Gaijin]

I think the two heavy Raiders (the one Caprica Sharon flew and the damaged one in Scattered)  would have been a perfect fit for the episode. They had alot of space since they were troop carriers and probably could have gotten past the Cylon defenses on Caprica if they still had Cylon transponders. It would have been easier for Adama and Apollo to greenlight the mission too, if all you really needed were Starbuck and maybe two or three pilots. You could get some intel on Cylon defenses near the Colonies, maybe rescue some people and if everyone gets killed, its a smaller military loss than 20 Raptors.

376614[/snapback]

Raptors were used partly for budgetary reasons. They originally wanted to use the Heavy Raider as a plot point in the rescue leading a few Raptors but they according to Ron Moore, were waaaaaay over budget as it is and couldn't afford to build the interior of the heavy Raider.

The whole let's go back to Caprica will bring both sides of the argument and that is of course what this show does.

Again, if the writing is so poor for those who say so...why are you still watching it then bitching about it?

[Gaijin]

Again, if you understand that strangers on the Internet don't have to justify their personal opinions or viewing habits to your satisfaction...is it increasing your enjoyment of this thread if you choose to keep reading replies you don't like and then keep bitching about them anyway? 

I am honestly curious.

Edited March 5, 2006 by Gaijin

[myk]

I don't think that the writing of the series as a whole has gone bad, it just seems as if the story has lost focus and direction. My main concerns are the plot holes/fragments and implausibilities. Season one of BSG was important for the franchise and Sci-Fi in general, as it showed viewers that Sci-Fi stories even from the past could be made enticing, relevant and thought provoking with contraversial issues and characters. Now, at the end of season 2, we have......... Adama and Roslyn giggling together in a hallway? A salty, openly vocal Chief Medical Officer who suddenly agrees with the kidnapping of a child and it's subsequent false death? Huh?

Again, I adore the new BSG, I just don't want this ground breaking series to become, well, LOST...

[Duke Togo]

The main problem they never resolved (and I don't know if they ever will) is the fact when the mini first came out, then a good chunk of season 1, the general idea was "Cylons try to kill all humans, humans on the run". Remember when the colonies unconditionally surrendered in the mini? Remember when the Cylons didn't care and kept attacking?

The Cylons could have had all the human guinea pigs they wanted (which is all they seem to want now). Admittedly, Moore and company had no idea where they were going with the show until well into season 1. Problem is, they left this huge, gaping continuity error.

Well, its a good thing they wenty and rescued Anders, cause now we have a resistance leader handy!

[Dobber]

Duke is right, Ron Moore said on several occasions that they had NO idea where the Caprica storyline was going, and the he was so glad that they brought back Helo from the mini. I think the Caprica story arc was made so they could bring back Helo and then they went with it from there.

Chris

[myk]

Well, if the Caprica story becomes too much to handle they can always drop it like they did with Boxy...

[Effect]

Why did the drop the Boxy character? Just no where to use him or didn't want any kids in the show?

How exactly could they have used him I wonder.

[cobywan]

Why did the drop the Boxy character? Just no where to use him or didn't want any kids in the show?

How exactly could they have used him I wonder.

376844[/snapback]

They could have shown how hate is passed on the the next generation forever perpetuating the same ugly politics.

[Uxi]

Though it had little military/strategic/story consistency logic, seeing all them Raptors going into jump sure did look cool...

[Matt Random]

I like this show and look forward to it each week but I have to admit that the story doesn't seem to be going anywhere. It doesn't seem that the writers think more than an episode or two ahead. The plot points that do go for more than a couple of episodes tend to fizzle.

- Rosalyn's cancer was cured by a blood transfusion. This was a defining attribute of her character and i just kind of disappears.

- Tigh really screwed things up when Adama was shot but none of that seems to have had lasting repercussions.

- Admiral Kane is introduced, shakes things up then is offed.

- The Pegasus seems like excess baggage that the writers don't seem to know what to do with. The latest commanding officer seems to spend more time on the Galactica then on his own ship (Lee's promotion seemed liked a silly move by the writers).

- The Blackbird could have allowed for surveillance type plots that let the viewer see more of the inner workings of the Cylon fleet but it seems the writers didn't know what to do with this and got rid of the craft through an act of carelessness from a supposedly ace pilot.

- The civilian crew chief on the Pegasus has disappeared. The skill set of this character could have led to some interesting stories.

- The baby seemed like a significant plot point but nothing has come of it now that she has been born. It is hard to fault the writers for this one. What can you do with a baby without jumping ahead 10 years or using the tired old excuse of rapid growth.

These plot and consistency problems seem to be a problem with a lot of shows now, not just BSG.

[Duke Togo]

- Rosalyn's cancer was cured by a blood transfusion. This was a defining attribute of her character and i just kind of disappears.

They had little choice. They couldn't milk it forever, it had to have some conclusion. I doubt its the last we've heard of it, though.

- Tigh really screwed things up when Adama was shot but none of that seems to have had lasting repercussions.

I don't know exactly what you were expecting here?

- Admiral Kane is introduced, shakes things up then is offed.

She had a longer appearance than the original Cain. Again, what were you expecting here?

- The Pegasus seems like excess baggage that the writers don't seem to know what to do with. The latest commanding officer seems to spend more time on the Galactica then on his own ship (Lee's promotion seemed liked a silly move by the writers).

The mission briefing took place aboard the Pegasus, not the Galactica. I don't recall seeing Apollo aboard the Galactica since being promoted. And if he was, it was very brief. And why was it silly? I agree with Moore, keeping characters in the same roles for however long a show runs shows a lack of creativity. Was Apollo to be nothing more than a pilot for the rest of the show? Is there someone else who you thought was more fit for the position?

- The Blackbird could have allowed for surveillance type plots that let the viewer see more of the inner workings of the Cylon fleet but it seems the writers didn't know what to do with this and got rid of the craft through an act of carelessness from a supposedly ace pilot.

- The civilian crew chief on the Pegasus has disappeared. The skill set of this character could have led to some interesting stories.

Ah, we agree on something. I truly thought they were setting up a re-occuring character when he was introduced. Who is to say what season 3 holds, though?

- The baby seemed like a significant plot point but nothing has come of it now that she has been born. It is hard to fault the writers for this one. What can you do with a baby without jumping ahead 10 years or using the tired old excuse of rapid growth.

Even Arthur had to wait to grow up before pulling the sword from the stone. This will be a long running plotline. I'm not 100% on this, but I do believe we'll be seeing her again next week.

These plot and consistency problems seem to be a problem with a lot of shows now, not just BSG.

Can't say I totally disagree with you. What we are dealing with in BSG is something that was really a one shot min-series with hope for the future, but with no plans for it. Next thing they know they are planning to start production on season 3. From the sound of things, season 2 was really when they laid the groundwork for the series in total.

[Anubis]

IF Tyrol gets stuck on the planet then maybe the civilian crew-chief form the pegasus will step up and be a big player in the hangar?

I was wondering what happened to that guy too. All he was really used for was the sob story of how Cain abandoned her civilian ships. The guy did have an impressive skill set and was probably very useful.

[Gaijin]

Why did the drop the Boxy character? Just no where to use him or didn't want any kids in the show?

How exactly could they have used him I wonder.

376844[/snapback]

It was mentioned that the Boxey kid was dropped for a number of reasons. He originally was to be Boomer's "sidekick" and there was going be a family type dynamic with Tyrol and Sharon but then they decided that Sharon would be a Cylon at the end of the mini so he was just to be a "in the background" kind of kid but his scenes from the first season mostly got deleted. You can see them on the DVD set...they are ok but they just seem out of place in the context of where they decided to go.

More importantly, while they liked the actor, he by his very nature of growing up from being young looking in the mini series and season one changed as they went into season 2 and since the events from the mini and to present day season 2 only take place over the course of 9 months, and the actual actor as a kid aging nearly 3 years from the mini, they just couldn't justify how this kid they picked up suddenly grew and looked older faster than he should be.

[Gaijin]

I like this show and look forward to it each week but I have to admit that the story doesn't seem to be going anywhere. It doesn't seem that the writers think more than an episode or two ahead. The plot points that do go for more than a couple of episodes tend to fizzle.

- Rosalyn's cancer was cured by a blood transfusion. This was a defining attribute of her character and i just kind of disappears.

- Tigh really screwed things up when Adama was shot but none of that seems to have had lasting repercussions.

- Admiral Kane is introduced, shakes things up then is offed.

- The Pegasus seems like excess baggage that the writers don't seem to know what to do with. The latest commanding officer seems to spend more time on the Galactica then on his own ship (Lee's promotion seemed liked a silly move by the writers).

- The Blackbird could have allowed for surveillance type plots that let the viewer see more of the inner workings of the Cylon fleet but it seems the writers didn't know what to do with this and got rid of the craft through an act of carelessness from a supposedly ace pilot.

- The civilian crew chief on the Pegasus has disappeared. The skill set of this character could have led to some interesting stories.

- The baby seemed like a significant plot point but nothing has come of it now that she has been born. It is hard to fault the writers for this one. What can you do with a baby without jumping ahead 10 years or using the tired old excuse of rapid growth.

These plot and consistency problems seem to be a problem with a lot of shows now, not just BSG.

376910[/snapback]

Welcome to TV shows that have longer running plot lines than the "we solve everything in every episode and next week is a whole new story type show".

[Matt Random]

I definitely prefer shows that have long story arcs and BSG is certainly a show that has ongoing plots. I love to try to figure things out and to speculate about where a plot is going. My point was that many of the plot threads, which start off great, tend to fall apart after a couple of episodes and then fizzle out. The cancer/chosen one plot was interesting but is now resolved. It seemed that Laura went from fine, to her deathbed to entirely cured in the space of an episode. Of course, a relapse is possible but I'm thinking it isn't all that likely.

Many shows have this same problem. Lost is unfortunately starting to go this way.

[Gaijin]

The cancer/chosen one plot was interesting but is now resolved. It seemed that Laura went from fine, to her deathbed to entirely cured in the space of an episode. Of course, a relapse is possible but I'm thinking it isn't all that likely.

377003[/snapback]

Huh? She's been dying from the mini. How long was she supposed to stay on a deathbed too...more than a few eps?

So...if a long plot resolves finally in a single episode than it is poor...and if they aren't resolved in a couple of episodes then they fizzle out?

So Cain should still be here, the Pegasus itself should be gone, the Blackbird should not have been destroyed, they should be harping on what Tigh did while in command, and the baby who was born one episode ago you think is going nowhere because one episode of a 2 parter didn't mention it?

The Pegasus crew chief actor is returning later, I believe it was mentioned the actor wasn't available just like the actors for Stinger and Leoben. Can't do anything intersting with the character if the actor isn't there.

[EXO]

The cancer/chosen one plot was interesting but is now resolved. It seemed that Laura went from fine, to her deathbed to entirely cured in the space of an episode. Of course, a relapse is possible but I'm thinking it isn't all that likely.

377003[/snapback]

Huh? She's been dying from the mini. How long was she supposed to stay on a deathbed too...more than a few eps?

So...if a long plot resolves finally in a single episode than it is poor...and if they aren't resolved in a couple of episodes then they fizzle out?

So Cain should still be here, the Pegasus itself should be gone, the Blackbird should not have been destroyed, they should be harping on what Tigh did while in command, and the baby who was born one episode ago you think is going nowhere because one episode of a 2 parter didn't mention it?

The Pegasus crew chief actor is returning later, I believe it was mentioned the actor wasn't available just like the actors for Stinger and Leoben. Can't do anything intersting with the character if the actor isn't there.

377025[/snapback]

I know... it's like a lose-lose situation with these "faithful viewers". They should seriously try to get jobs as writers on the show. I can imagine how boring the show would be.

[Zor Primus]

- Rosalyn's cancer was cured by a blood transfusion. This was a defining attribute of her character and i just kind of disappears.

Yeah...but the cancer was wiped out probably as some kind of statement in favor of stem cell research...however I've got a feeling it will come back at some point.

- Tigh really screwed things up when Adama was shot but none of that seems to have had lasting repercussions.

Tigh not getting command of the Pegasus seems like a fitting example of a lasting repercussion.

- Admiral Kane is introduced, shakes things up then is offed.

Cain is forever destined to die. She was too strong a character to keep around, she outranked Adama and that just couldn't work in the long run.

- The Pegasus seems like excess baggage that the writers don't seem to know what to do with. The latest commanding officer seems to spend more time on the Galactica then on his own ship (Lee's promotion seemed liked a silly move by the writers).

Togo nailed it, Lee has been on the Pegasus since given command by Adama...which was the episode before this past week's The Caprica Mission briefing was on Pegasus and Apollo was there.

- The Blackbird could have allowed for surveillance type plots that let the viewer see more of the inner workings of the Cylon fleet but it seems the writers didn't know what to do with this and got rid of the craft through an act of carelessness from a supposedly ace pilot.

I agree, they took that ship out too quickly. All the hype behind it and such a well written episode that brought it to life only to get vaped on its second mission.

- The civilian crew chief on the Pegasus has disappeared. The skill set of this character could have led to some interesting stories.

Meh, that guy wasn't all about anything really...the Chief in Galactica is the only techie really worth following up on as far as story goes.

- The baby seemed like a significant plot point but nothing has come of it now that she has been born. It is hard to fault the writers for this one. What can you do with a baby without jumping ahead 10 years or using the tired old excuse of rapid growth.

Again, wth? Lets just dump the baby on some random ship? A weak idea and rather dangerous decision made by Stands with Fists it'll probably come back and bite her in the ass later. I see another assasination by Sharon in the future

All in all the second half of the season turned out better then what I had expected. Can't wait for Friday!

[bsu legato]

I know... it's like a lose-lose situation with these "faithful viewers".  They should seriously try to get jobs as writers on the show.  I can imagine how boring the show would be.

377102[/snapback]

But at least they'd straighten out the fleet's TOE.

[azrael]

- The baby seemed like a significant plot point but nothing has come of it now that she has been born. It is hard to fault the writers for this one. What can you do with a baby without jumping ahead 10 years or using the tired old excuse of rapid growth.

Again, wth? Lets just dump the baby on some random ship? A weak idea and rather dangerous decision made by Stands with Fists it'll probably come back and bite her in the ass later. I see another assasination by Sharon in the future

377214[/snapback]

According to the podcasts, they may revisit that storyline at some point, so it's not over yet. But for the sake of this season, it's done.

[big F]

The main thing to remember is that nowadays the viewer demands a much more in depth storyline. Most crime based dramas have at least two sub plots going in each episode, some are ongoing themes or issues others get sorted in an episode.

This sort of thing is now normal in most series be they Crime, SciFi or some soapopera. The oposite end of the scale is Lost where there are more sub plots than main story. I still eagerly await the new episodes to be posted so I can download them (you cant get BSG or Lost in the U.K) at least with BSG its on weekly.

Im sure the writers will sort out the loose ends sooner. I agree there are certain parts that need to be sorted out. It`s also a shame that the Blackbird was iced.

All the U.K readers I know that you can now get BSG on Sky but they are only on the first few episodes of series two. I couldnt wait, so I downloaded them. As soon as they are on DVD its a done deal.

Edited March 6, 2006 by big F

[Dobber]

I'm looking forward to getting the rest of season 2 on DVD. I wonder how long until it gets released. Also, I hope they still include the directors version of Pegasus that was supposed to be in the previous release.

Chris

[myk]

I hope it won't be too soon, at least for the blokes that purchased version 2.0.

As for the blackbird, with the Pegasus at their disposal they could easily cobble up a few more of those, but then again the ability to actually spy and see what the Cylons are doing might answer too many questions...

[Gaijin]

Why would getting the second half of the season with the extended cut of Pegasus be bad for people who bought the first half? It's not as if you would have only bought half the season and stopped there if you were buying the DVD's.

Those waiting for a "complete" season...the "complete" set will just be the 2 sets combined nothing more.

Besides this won't be a problem for the 3rd season as the full 20 will run with no break starting in October. They asked for more production time and they got it.

[Dobber]

That is a good thing! Glad to hear they are getting what they need.

Now, from a purely fan perspective...OUCH!!! man this 7 month break is gonna suck! LOL!

Chris

P.S. Can't wait for tonight!! I keep hearing how big a cliffhangar it's going to be!

[Wes]

I could care less about the production time so much as the budget - I don't want to hear shortages being the problem of the series.

[azrael]

I could care less about the production time so much as the budget - I don't want to hear shortages being the problem of the series.

379092[/snapback]

You should listen to the podcasts.....I think Moore has cited the budget once every other episode. Just last week, (as noted previously), they were planning on using the Cylon Heavy Raider for the jumping sequence but they didn't have money to build a set for it. He even responded to a question about the Marines equipment they use on his blog. Why do the Marines use the same equipment each time we see them? Because of the budget. They can't afford to rent or buy new equipment so they reuse stuff every time. Why not more shots of the Centurions? Can't afford it. They try to fit in more shots but I don't think they have the money for it. I'm sure there would be more shots of various ships...if they could afford it.

[Effect]

Why did the drop the Boxy character? Just no where to use him or didn't want any kids in the show?

How exactly could they have used him I wonder.

376844[/snapback]

It was mentioned that the Boxey kid was dropped for a number of reasons. He originally was to be Boomer's "sidekick" and there was going be a family type dynamic with Tyrol and Sharon but then they decided that Sharon would be a Cylon at the end of the mini so he was just to be a "in the background" kind of kid but his scenes from the first season mostly got deleted. You can see them on the DVD set...they are ok but they just seem out of place in the context of where they decided to go.

More importantly, while they liked the actor, he by his very nature of growing up from being young looking in the mini series and season one changed as they went into season 2 and since the events from the mini and to present day season 2 only take place over the course of 9 months, and the actual actor as a kid aging nearly 3 years from the mini, they just couldn't justify how this kid they picked up suddenly grew and looked older faster than he should be.

376991[/snapback]

Ah I see. Well they could have made him a cylon instead. Would have made an interesting spin and explained him growing older. They are so set on killing cylons, what happens when they encounter a child cylon, who they've grown attached to. While an adult they can force themselves away could they do the same with a child (not knowing he's a cylon, what about the public). That is if they were thinking that far ahead.