BattleStar Galactica

[Duke Togo]

I dunno, I started losing alot of faith in the new show towards the end of the season (or half season, however they want to have it). They keep milking the same idea episode after episode, and its starting to wear very thin. And the whole Pegasus thing really pissed me off. Alot.

[Gaijin]

I dunno, I started losing alot of faith in the new show towards the end of the season (or half season, however they want to have it). They keep milking the same idea episode after episode, and its starting to wear very thin. And the whole Pegasus thing really pissed me off. Alot.

349802[/snapback]

I dunno though..if they rehashed the story from the old show with Cain a very "Patton" but happy leader I'd be more dissapointed.

[cobywan]

They keep milking the same idea episode after episode, and its starting to wear very thin.

349802[/snapback]

Which idea is that?

[Wes]

They keep milking the same idea episode after episode, and its starting to wear very thin.

349802[/snapback]

Which idea is that?

349888[/snapback]

I may be putting words in the Duke's mouth, but I'd say the whole impending-doom and who is/isn't a Cyclon is the common themes, but not giving us anything groundbreaking, just trying to keep the story going. But I think that's to be expected with a survival-show like this. I was feeling the same way about Lost a little while ago. They both can easily recover from these slumps so long as they aren't already aiming to make it to Season 7.

[EXO]

if they stuck to the theme it's "milking the story...", if they switch gears it's "jumping the shark".

I can actually take 7 seasons of Galactica because it's more believable that they could go on for generations without reacing Earth. But I agree about Lost pushing too many years a bit much. The Island can only remain so interesting for so long... I'm gonna check out if the Globetrotters ever show up.

[Wes]

if they stuck to the theme it's "milking the story...", if they switch gears it's "jumping the shark".

349932[/snapback]

Just like someone else said, I think on the Lost thread, I just want them to have a sense for the story and just tell it, in a set number of seasons. If it does really good, great, the creators can do a sequel or a similar project.

But I agree about Lost pushing too many years a bit much.  The Island can only remain so interesting for so long... I'm gonna check out if the Globetrotters ever show up.

SPOILER

I actually heard Weird Al is scheduled to make a moving performance sometime soon.

[myk]

The only two reasons why the new BSG is better than the old which need to be mentioned:

349728[/snapback]

That's just.......wrong, lol. I've got even more reasons to stay away from classic Coke:

Someone get me some wine to drink with all of that 70's cheese...

With all due respect, I loved the original when I was younger but I'm on to something more in step with the times and with issues and people that I can relate to more or less. Considering how polarized people are when it comes old and new, there's no point in pressing the issue..Next topic!

Edited December 6, 2005 by myk

[Uxi]

Meh, I'd have still preferred a continuation or another Battlestar escaping in a different direction or something. A different "point of view."

I think the best opportunity was a whole "next generation" type of thing with these guys all being descendents of the original Galactica... Possibly even had them settled down on some world that gets wiped out in the way we saw in the mini. Someone should dub a random language there and then subtitle a new story.

Seems too obvious where they're going IMO (that the Cylons deliberately allowed them out so they could pursue their selective breeding program)... This Galactica is one giant lab rat.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Uxi

[kalvasflam]

In terms of the old vs new Galactica debate.

I simply look at it as an attempt by sci-fi to put up a new show leveraging off the names and concept of an old classic. However, the new show has gone beyond its predecessor in my opinion, and now is able to stand on its own.

To me new and old Galactica are just completely different shows, the only things they have in common are names, and the concept of surviving a holocaust. Now, things could still go south for this show, they've been talking about the Cylon plan, and so far, it's being hinted at around the fringes. If the storyline behind that plan is pulled off well, then the show will work out.

In my estimation, BSG need to be a little like Babylon 5. In terms of story concept, they need to at some point have a momentous episode like the Coming of the Shadows or a Severed Dreams that moves the show along in a different direction and answer some key questions. There needs to be an ah'ha moment, that hasn't happened just yet.

[Wes]

Seems too obvious where they're going IMO (that the Cylons deliberately allowed them out so they could pursue their selective breeding program)... This Galactica is one giant lab rat.

349952[/snapback]

That, and if they ever find other humans, the Cylons can be right there to wipe them out.

[Major Johnathan]

The production values for the show are high in general but can be spread pretty thin, I think the 20 episode season this year, which might turn into a true 22-24 episode per season trend later, is a mistake.

The first season was a much tighter story that the first half of season 2. I think BSG would be better served as a 13 episode a year show like Sopranos, The Shield, etc. That would keep production values up and limit the filler.

However I'm sure Sci Fi is getting some ok coin for having SG1, Atlantis and Farscape in syndication right now. I'm sure they care more about getting BSG to the 88 episode mark as fast as possible versus quality over quantity.

349997[/snapback]

I agree with that. While I didin't think it was perfect, the mini-series was quite good and season one was good. I just found the character development/plot twists very hard to swallow for the first half of season 2. It seemed very much like they were forcing extra 'conflict' among the main characters to eat up some shows. Note how little special effects were used in some episodes.

Unfortuantely, my overall feelings for this show are fading. I'll still give it a chance, but the way they handled the Apollo-Adama and Apollo-Starbuck realtionship(betrayal on top of betrayal), the disintegration of Pres. Roslin, and the Pegasus crewed by Folsom's and San Quentin's finest... the writing needs help.

Plus the whole trust and symapthy for Boomer angle... uh, she isn't in control and at any moment she might try to assasinate anyone or sabotage Galactica? (see: Manchurian Candidate)

Edited December 6, 2005 by Major Johnathan

[Dobber]

That is really the main thing that does bug me about the new show. Nobody says that to Boomer when she starts getting all high and mighty. How can you trust an enemy that can't even trust itself?!

Chris

[EXO]

Yup that bugs me too... most of the other stuff is nitpicks and just wishing that they're part of the writing team.

[Noriko Takaya]

Someone should dub a random language there and then subtitle a new story.

349952[/snapback]

Carl Macek front and center!

[Axelay]

Rumors are that one of the later episodes will have a dogfighting episode where the Cylons attempt to take out the Galacticas top Viper pilot. (AKA shades of McQueen versus Chiggy in Space A&B - Angriest Angel) This may play into the RDM podcast where he says Lt. Louanne 'Kat' Katraine (Lucianna Carro) is actually a more gifted pilot than Starbuck.

Hell yes. I want to see a massive furball with one pilot taking on scores of enemies against overwhelming odds. I do hope she makes it, if it is indeed Kat.

Chaplain: "Col. McQueen? Shouldn't you make peace with your maker?"

McQueen: "I don't think He wants to hear from me right now, because I'm going to take off and blow one of His creations out of the sky. And when I come back, I'm going to drink a toast to Chiggy von Richtoffen's death."

Chaplain: "... amen."

[Boxer]

I beleive the new Battelstar galactica is a product of a new generation bent on interests in sex and violence and less story, substance, and mythology.

Yeah, I hate the new BSG.

Mostly because it mangled the storyline and deluted it to nothing more than a load of self-centered characters with petty, steryotypical struggles. There's a bigger focus on rape and torture in the new BSG than actually finding earth.

I mean, the whole 'Cylon God' deal, to me, seems like a pale copy of the zealous terrorists out there fighting and killing innocents in the name of God.

All this is a heavy contrast to the origional BSG. Granted, it was a product of it's time, but the depth of the mythology there, inspirational Heroes, a prevailing sense of hope, and the constant search for a paradise were all key to the origional Galactica.

These elements were sadly mishandled, dropped, or broken in the new Galactica.

What hurts me the most is the mythology. The origional BSG held very heavy Biblical and mythological terminology, and the backstory was, IMO, very ritch (cylons want to kill humanity because of a human's love for individuality and freedom- concepts alien and frightening to the Cylons). Name-taking from mythos is the most noticeable of these things, but even some characters borrow their roots from mythology (case in point: The seductive evil of Count Iblis...who I beleive would have a feild day on the new Galactica).

The search for Earth and the preservation of the fleet were important things to the plot. Granted, we had wacky 'Starbuck-gets-stranded-again' episodes, but ultimately the best of the origional BSG (Hand of God, Lost Planet of the Gods, The Living Legend, War of the Gods) incorporated many of these themes into the story to provide for rich episodes. I haven't seen a single new BSG episode I'm impressed with to be honest, and from what I've read of the reviews the new BSG isn't impressive at all.

So yeah, like Seasons 1-3 of Enterprise, it seems the focus on making cylon babies and how 'tigh' is going to be an ass this time takes more precidence over filling plot holes and going somewhere with the story.

And don't get me started on the appearance of the new Galactica. I'll sum it up now in one word: Insufficient.

[Seven]

The origional BSG held very heavy Biblical and mythological terminology, and the backstory was, IMO, very ritch (cylons want to kill humanity because of a human's love for individuality and freedom- concepts alien and frightening to the Cylons).

350373[/snapback]

Where in the original series do they reveal this? I always felt like the motivations of the Cylons were never explained and they were the bad guys just because they were the bad guys and liked to kill things. Baltar never went into what motivated their whole determination to destroy humanity in all of his mustaching-twisting dialogue, or did he?

[Wes]

The origional BSG held very heavy Biblical and mythological terminology, and the backstory was, IMO, very ritch (cylons want to kill humanity because of a human's love for individuality and freedom- concepts alien and frightening to the Cylons).

350373[/snapback]

Where in the original series do they reveal this? I always felt like the motivations of the Cylons were never explained and they were the bad guys just because they were the bad guys and liked to kill things. Baltar never went into what motivated their whole determination to destroy humanity in all of his mustaching-twisting dialogue, or did he?

350384[/snapback]

Early on, in like the first few episodes. They touch back on it when they reach the Terra area.

I wounder how (if at all) the new series will handle Terra?

[DeathHammer]

I clicked the link in Boxers signature, sufficient to say hes probably an old school fan and not keen on the new BSG.

http://battlestarfanclub.com/battlestar/bgarticle35.htm

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Top 55 Reasons/Nitpicks Why Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica miniseries SUCKS

55) The whole mood of this miniseries is dark, dreadful, boring, and downright depressing. Every single character in this miniseries is either hateful, angry, sad, horny, and/or totally uninteresting. Richard Hatch has even said "lots of cleavage and sex, but no romance". There is no humor in this miniseries WHATSOEVER. If anyone actually liked this miniseries, I'd have to ask them how much Prozac they were on.

54) The opening sequence seems totally unnecessary. The female Cylon and two centurions enter the Armistice Station. The female Cylon asks the Colonial representative if he's human and kisses him. Then a Cylon basestar (which looks like an overgrown starfish) destroys the station. Okay. The basestar needlessly destroyed 3 of it's own Cylons. And no one on the Colonies seemed to notice the destruction of this Armistice Station. What was the purpose of this scene?

53) On this Armistice Station, the Colonial representative is obviously played by young actor with a very amateur make-up job to make him look old. Why not just get an older actor to play him? At least get someone who knows how to do a convincing make-up job.

52) When the 2 centurions and Number Six enter the Armistice Station, a close up of one of their robotic arms shows a gun barrel, which transforms into a robotic hand. If they intend no immediate physical harm to the man, why did they come in with their weapons drawn? Also, these new Cylon centurions have the head of an Imperial Guard from Star Wars and the body of the Maximilian robot in The Black Hole. The sound effect of their roving Cylon eye is the exact sound of a light saber swoosh. Stealing from Star Wars there, Mr. Moore?

51) As this miniseries opens, typed narration explains the history of how the Cylons came to be. Instead of this useless Armistice Station scene, why not actually show what's being described in the typed narration? Actually SHOW scenes of the humans building the Cylons, their uses, and their eventual revolt. Why didn't they do this? I know why: the crappy TV budget they got for this miniseries.

50) The new Battlestar Galactica itself is just laughable. Instead of the gritty texture of the original ship, this reimagined Galactica has a "ribbed" look like a giant condom. The original Galactica was sleek with grace and dimension (and well lit). Also, the original Galactica only needed one gigantic thruster engine at it's aft. For some reason, this Galactica has 4 extra engines, which makes it look like a gigantic cinder block in space. It just looks ridiculous. It's also such a dark and murky special effect that you really can't make out its exact shape.

49) What's the deal with the new uniforms? The command jumpsuits look exactly like the Babylon 5 military uniforms. Also, did the wardrobe department get the pilot undergarments (worn in the Pyramid game) at the Goodwill? Gray and puke-green colors? Gack! Talk about tacky. How about the pilot uniforms, flight jackets, and helmets? Besides the fact that they look like "plastic leather", they also look like they were stolen from the Space: Above & Beyond rack.

48) My thoughts on the new Galactica bridge. Hmm. Let's just say that at least the original series had a much larger budget.

47) The new Colonial Tigh. How shall I put this? Have you ever glanced at a person and knew instantly that you couldn't stand them? This was my first impression when I originally saw a picture of this actor months before the miniseries even premiered. I simply cannot stand both the actor and the character. He is totally unlikable. He's an alcoholic misogynist that none of the crew like. He also pronounces Baltar as "Balter".

46) During the Pyramid card game, one of the pilots is sucking on a sucker. My goodness these people are so advanced. Hard candy with a Tootsie Roll center on a stick. Where does Ron Moore come up with these ideas? Maybe in the new series, we'll see something as scientifically advanced as -- dare I say it?-- a corn dog?

45) Caprica City. My guess is that Ron Moore must have seen Star Wars "Phantom Menace" because the buildings in this city look an awful lot like Coruscant right down to it's miscellaneous flying craft buzzing about the city as well as the government ship that transports Laura Roslin. Brilliant Ron.

44) Laura Roslin's aid "Billy". A guy in a science fiction show named BILLY? That's enough said right there. But why not just call him who this guy really emulates: Jimmy Olson. And what the hell does the Petty Officer Second Dualla girl see in this guy??? Dualla is a highly educated bridge officer. Billy is a lost klutzy dweeb. On earth, would a female brain surgeon date Gilligan? I'm sorry, Ron, but this relationship just doesn't wash by any means. Towards the end, Billy is seen flirting with 3 crew women.� If Moore wants this version to be �more believable�, he should realize that klutzy nerds usually don�t get the girl. Let alone 3 of them!

43) The original Baltar had character and personality. This new Baltar is a skinny wuss who looks and sounds more like Dr. Bashir on DS9.

42) Why does Number Six's spine glow when she's having sex? Her and Baltar have been having sex for 2 years and Baltar's never noticed this before??? He's never caught a glimpse of it in a mirror or window? He's never noticed the room glow red when they've had sex in the dark?

41) The radio transmissions heard in communicating to Vipers and other craft have the same raspy garble sound effect as the X-Wing pilots had in the original Star Wars Death Star attack. Ron Moore again stealing from Star Wars.

40) Flight control keeps track of Vipers by writing on a transparent board with an orange dry erase marker. These people are advanced enough to have space flight capabilities yet they still use magic markers???????????

39) Why do we need this flight engineer Tyrol? He's so overused and just slows down the whole show. He isn't that bright. And why slow down the plot of this miniseries even more than it already is with the Tyrol/Boomer relationship? Also, could those two be a more unlikely pair?

38) Ron Moore must not like children. First, he has Number Six snap the neck of an infant. Then he has the Cylon Boomer adopt Boxey. Then he has the Cylons destroy the Botanical Cruiser, putting emphasis on the little girl who will get killed.

37) Edward James Olmos is an accomplished actor. However, I, for one, am not terribly impressed. For instance, take the scene where Adama explains to Laura Roslin about not allowing any networked computers on his ship. Olmos speaks slowly and pauses allot as if he forgot his lines or was struggling to read his cue card. Also, the scene where they learn of the Cylon attack, Olmos omits the word "that" as he reads: "This ship received word of a Cylon attack against our home world is underway". Bad grammar there, Ed. Also, towards the end of the miniseries, Adama is talking to the whiskered human Cylon named Leoben on the Ragnar space station. Olmos says "God didn't create the Cylons. Man did. And I'm pretty sure we didn't include a soul in the. . .(pause). . .programming". It looked like he was struggling to remember the word "programming".

36) The rift between Adama & Apollo is nothing but melodramatic boredom as seen in a million over-dramatized military movies. This is such an obvious set up for a predictable "tearful" reunion at the end of the film. Bor-ing!!!

35) This idea to make the Cylons humanoid was obviously done for budgetary reasons. But the way they did it has already been done in millions of science fiction movies and TV shows that have come before it. The idea of the enemy, either alien or machine, taking human form has been done in Invasion of the Body Snatchers, the Alien movies, Blade Runner, The Invaders, The Six Million Dollar Man, Star Trek, The Thing, and a list too long to go into here. In fact, the idea for humanoid machines destroying humans in a nuclear attack, then hunting them down, is taken right from the Terminator movies. Also, these humanoid Cylons all claim to be 1 of 12 models. Number Six says she is the 6th of 12 models, which is obviously stolen from the Seven of Nine character in Star Trek: Voyager. Once more proving the "brilliancy" of Ron Moore stealing ideas from prior sci-fi. One more thing. Number Six said she was 6 of 12 models. But what about her model that was destroyed when the basestar destroyed the Armistice station? Wouldn't she now be 6 of 11?

34)) Apparently, there are human Cylons so they can infiltrate the Galactica. Sort of like the McCarthy era where American's were supposed to beware of the "godless communists". That Ron Moore sure is hip, eh? But if there are human Cylons aboard the Galactica, all they'd have to do is go to the bridge, get the coordinates of the fleet, and transmit that to the Cylon Empire. Or, just have Boomer (who is a Cylon) fly her viper to the nearest base star with the information. Then the Cylons simply come and wipe out the fleet. Did you not think this through, Mr. Moore?

33) Let's talk about music for a second. The music in this miniseries (or lack thereof) is mostly composed of bongos, rhythmic drums, chanting, and a few simplistic synthesized music extensions. Nothing at all to suggest this miniseries was done on any epic scale. It's obvious that the lack of music is reflective of the lack of budget in this miniseries. Why didn't they just call this "Bargain Basement Galactica"? Another thing. This is a science fiction series with evil machines against a military ship. Why would a show like that have tribal music????

32) This miniseries is filmed in a documentary "aim and shoot" style as if you're actually there with a shaky camera, random pans, and spontaneous zooms. I'm so glad I didn't see this in a theater, because myself and the audience would have lost our cookies. Many times during a space battle the camera would haphazardly zoom in to certain elements of the battle where I'd of wished they'd zoom into something that looked more interesting. This is very annoying film making with a look that is less than amateurish. Another suggested title would be "The Battlestar Witch Project".� Moore thinks he�s being unique with this filming style. Hardly, since it�s been done in most dramatic television today. The Shield, NYPD Blue, and other dramas have used this camera style for years. In fact, the sci-fi series Firefly used it as well.�� Not unique, Ron.

31) At one point, Baltar and Number Six are standing in Baltar's house next to a large window when a nuclear shockwave plows right through the house. How did Baltar survive this? Wouldn't the debris of the house falling kill him instantly? Granted, Six stood in front of him, but what good would that do with all the glass and debris falling around him?

And even if he did survive, how is it that Number Six didn't? Wouldn't a robot stand more of a chance at surviving the shock and debris more than the human Baltar would??? We know the human models are stronger than human beings because the whiskered Cylon Leoben held up Adama with one hand and broke a pipe in two quite easily.

30) Galactica personnel get allot of their reports from computer printouts. For some reason, the printer paper has slanted corners. Obviously, the art department must have cut corners off of regular printer paper with a scissors because some of the corners are pretty unevenly cut. This is also the type of computer paper with perforated edges and holes. How do they feed new printer paper into their printer if the perforated holes don't cover the length of the paper so the guide reels will take it in?

29) Take a look at the microphone that Adama uses to make his ship wide announcements with. This thing is cube-shaped about the size of a large apple with a coiled cord attached to it. It looks like something straight from WWII. Another example of the lop-sided technology in this society.

28) The new Cylon Raiders look exactly like the Bat-Plane in the Batman movies. Nuff said there.

27) In order for the Cylon Raiders to transmit their virus, a panel in the upper part of the ship opens to reveal a roaming red light. Why not just transmit the signal? Why do we need the little Cylon eye thingy?

26) In this miniseries, it states that the Cylons have not been heard from in 40 years. Then one day they suddenly appear. This concept seems stolen right from the Star Trek: Next Generation episode "The Neutral Zone" where the Romulans come back after several decades. Also, the idea of Cylons achieving conciseness and deciding to kill their masters is not new to science fiction. It was a central theme in the Terminator movies, Blade Runner, and Frankenstein.

25) One of the pilots in the newer model Vipers says that the Cylon Raiders are unmanned and remote controlled. How does he know this? No one has seen a Cylon ship for 40 years. But from the looks of the ship, it looks like the top of the Raider has an extension that could easily be a cockpit.

24) After the Cylon Raiders transmit their computer virus, the newer Vipers loose power and start to drift. But the first thing that happens is their nose scoops drop downwards. With the lack of gravity in space, why would this happen? Wouldn't momentum keep them drifting forward? Also, after they loose power, 2 Cylon Raiders come back and destroy the Vipers. WHY? The Vipers are already without power (even though their helmets still have lights and the pilots can still communicate). The pilots will die anyway when their air runs out. Isn't this a waste of Cylon missiles?

23) Okay. Let's take a look at the technology in this society again. This Kobol society is scientifically advanced enough to have been able to create the Cylons. They have space flight capabilities on a rather large scale. Their ships are even capable of "Hyper Light Jumps". They have anti-gravity ships that buzz about their cities. The Cylons themselves have advanced enough that they have created perfect humanoid Cylons that even have emotions, blood, and vaginal secretions. Yet with all of this advanced technology on both sides, they still use NUCLEAR MISSILES???? Ron Moore didn't want to use lasers because he thought it was too stereotypical for science fiction and something viewers couldn't relate to (even though this is science fiction). Apparently Ron Moore doesn't know that humans on earth 2003 use lasers for surgery, cash register scans, DVD & CD players, gun sights, and yes, we could even use them to destroy nuclear missiles on re-entry. Yes. We can relate to lasers, Ron.

22) Ron Moore said he wanted this society to be something non-science fiction fans could relate to and also to make things seem scientifically plausible. You can't have both at the same time, Ron. Though, we might be able to relate to the wireless radios, the business suits, and the scientific logistics of a soundless space environment, it's NOT scientifically plausible for a machine to have emotions. Plain and simple.

21) This Raptor ship is just pathetically unimaginative. It looks like a Blue Thunder helicopter without blades. Also, this ship has lots of window glass. How does it survive reentry in a planet�s atmosphere without all that glass melting or the pilots being blinded?�

20) The Cylon attack destroys all 12 colony planets and the entire fleet of battlestars. But we don't get to see any of it!!!! They sum up all the death and destruction in a few lines spoken on the bridge. This is ridiculous. At least on the original series, we got to see the actual attack. We saw Caprica fall. Everyone on the bridge was visibly shaken. Athena, Adama, & Tigh were all crying. We got to see the Battlestar Atlantia blow up. We saw all-out space battles. In this miniseries we don't even get to see Caprica destroyed. We see nuke explosions from orbit, but that hardly gives you an idea what's being hit. And the only destroyed battlestar we got to see was a really bad superimposed CGI mat of a crippled battlestar. Yeah Ron. We really get a much better picture of the destruction in this version, don't we?

19) I'm still confused as to how Caprica was destroyed. No one mentioned any Cylon Raiders around the Colonies that launched any missiles. Number Six said she sabotaged the defense computers. But was that so Caprica couldn't defend itself or did she make the missiles just launch and explode? Did she rig them to detonate in their silos? Adama said that a 50 megaton nuke detonated over Caprica City. Did a Raider launch that? Or did Number Six's tampering make Caprica launch the missiles on itself? In fact, why does Caprica even have missiles? The Cylons left the Colonies 4 decades ago, to an unknown destination. So what are these missiles aimed at exactly???

18) We get to see mushroom clouds on Caprica but they are all in a country field! Yeah. Allot of collateral damage will pile up it you nuke farm houses, eh Ron? Then all these survivors run across this country meadow to meet Boomer & Helo at the Raptor. Presumably these people are from cities since many have suits on. If so, how did they escape if the cities were nuked??? Even if they did escape, how could they have possibly have ran so far out of the city? In fact some of them were in their 60's. How could they have ran so far?

17) Now. This is my favorite stupid nitpick. Okay. Let me paint this picture one more time. A countryside meadow with nuclear bombs and mushroom clouds all around them. About 100 survivors want to be taken aboard the Raptor and Boomer suggests they. . .do a lottery! Okay. Uhm. Nukes are going off all around them. The ones that have already exploded are sending out who-knows-how-much radiation and Boomer wants to start a LOTTERY?????????????????????????????????????????? If your house is on fire, do you run out of the house? Or do you just stand there and ponder it for a while? Boy, its no wonder your fans call you brilliant, Ron.

16) What do the Vipers fire as weapons? From the sound effect, it sounds like bullets. But that would be kind of stupid, wouldn't it? A space ship that shoots bullets??? Wouldn't that also seem a little environmentally wrong to pollute space with all the misfired bullets as well? If a NASA space shuttle had a weapon mounted on it, it sure as hell wouldn't shoot bullets!!! Even our society wouldn't be that stupid or primitive.

15) At one point, Tigh makes a decision that saves the ship but over 100 crew members die as a result. This Tyrol dork was against this decision and keeps pointing out that he just needed 40 seconds. He tells this to Adama later and who knows who else: "Forty seconds". . ."Forty seconds". . ."Forty seconds". . . How many times does he have to say that??? This was such a wasted scene with wasted acting and wasted drama.�� Also, if the fire wasn�t put out, a lot more than 40� people would have died. This Tyrol guy just isn�t too bright.

14) At one point, the Galactica Hyper Jumps to the Ragnar space station to get weapons what are stocked within it. Adama tells the flight crew who will be going aboard (why the flight crew?) to "Get me some bullets". Again, a society of people who have battlestars and Hyper Jump technology still use bullets??? Anyway. Aboard this space station, the flight crew encounters a man at gunpoint named Leoben, who Adama soon learns is a human Cylon.� First off, why does this Cylon have whiskers??? But anyways. They know this guy is a Cylon. Yet they still take the weapons and ammunition that were on the station??? Uhm. Why don't they suspect that Leoben and/or the Cylons might have sabotaged the weapons and ammunition?????

13) Ron Moore said he did this Galactica so he could avoid all of the typical science fiction clich�s. One thing he didn't want to be like is Star Trek (even though he seems to copy from it in endless examples). In Star Trek, Captain Kirk always left the ship to go fight the bad guy. In this Galactica miniseries, Commander Adama personally goes aboard the Ragnar space station to encounter the whiskered Cylon and even has a good old fashioned Captain Kirk duke-out with him. � Also, this Hyper Jump idea has already been done in the original Frank Herbert Dune books as "folding space". Also , the way ships appear and disappear in this Hyper Jump is exactly the same special effect concept that Borg ships travel on Star Trek. Yep Ron. You sure are doing a great job of not being like Star Trek.

12) It was established that no one has seen the Cylons in 40 years. The last time a human saw one, they looked like they did in the original series. The only person that knew the Cylons had taken human form is Gaius Baltar. But when Adama first meets this

Leoben guy, he instantly suspects he�s a Cylon. Why would Adama suspect this?

11) Laura Roslin is visiting a Botanical Cruiser and given a tour by the captain of the ship. But why is the captain of the ship wearing an earth cruise boat uniform??? I'll say it again. That Ron Moore is a man of vision. Now he's copying from The Love boat.

10) The little girl that Laura talks to on the Botanical Cruiser pronounces Caprica as "Cap-reek-uh". She also mentions that she's going to eat something called "chicken pie". What are the evolutionary and/or language chances that this society has the same birdlike animal called a chicken?

9) The Botanical Cruiser can't make the Hyper Jump so Colonial One must leave it behind. Over the radio, crew from the Botanical Cruiser plead with Colonial One not to leave them behind. The last transmission is a woman who says "I hope you people rot in hell for this". In fact, many people in this miniseries use the word �hell�. Besides chicken, is it another coincidence that these people's Lords of Kobol religion also has a concept of a Hell like Christian mythology on earth does? I seriously doubt it.

The names of the Colonies of the original series, and of the miniseries, are based on the Zodiac. One of which are the Pisceans. The original series logically pronounced this word like the Zodiac word Pisces. However, for some reason, everyone in the miniseries pronounces Pisceans like "pike-ons".

7) In this miniseries, people are always saluting each other to the point of nausea. At least Star Trek was unique in is cultural symbolism with the Vulcan hand sign. The original Galactica had a military structure but they just acknowledged officer's with a mere "yes sir". They didn't go overboard with mindless salutes, which are just too earth-like for a science fiction show. Even if they do salute, you'd think they'd have a more unique salute to their world and their culture than we have on earth's military. Come on, Ron.

6) The Cylon devise located on the bridge. How could no one have seen this before? It was located in eye view of the monitors that all bridge personnel could clearly see by simply looking up at the monitor screens.

5) Number Six somehow implants a chip in Baltar�s head so he can interact with an illusion of Six. This concept has already been done in Farscape with Scorpius in John Crichton�s head. As well as Darla being in Angel�s head on Angel.��� Brilliant, Ron.� Also, if the Number Six that Baltar sees is just an illusion projected by the chip in his head, how is it that she casts shadows on things as she walks past them?�

4) At one point Adama uses the term "clicks" as in kilometers. I guess we can forget about this miniseries using the original terms like centons and microns if they're going to use present day earth metric system measurements. Not to mention using the same slang terms we on earth use like "clicks"?

3) The final battle in the original series pilot was spectacular with great special effects. The final battle in the miniseries is difficult to see. It's just a jumble of fire, sparks, missile smoke trails, and shaky camera nausea. In fact, the final battle in the original series concluded with the spectacular epic explosion of planet Carilon. The last battle on the miniseries just fizzles with Starbuck merely rescuing Apollo by linking both of their Vipers together to tow him in. Wow. I'm so impressed.

2) At one point during the last battle, Lee "Apollo" gives out the order "Broken formation: razzle dazzle". Razzle dazzle???? HUH???!!!

1) In the final scene, it's revealed that Boomer is a Cylon and even says "By your command". You'd think they'd show a close-up of Boomer saying this original Cylon response to even more emphasize her as a Cylon. But no. She dubs it over from a camera mounted on the ceiling for a master shot for some reason.

There is a lot of contradiction in this miniseries if they think they are giving the show a new and refreshing look. The cast are mostly young actors. In fact, a more fitting title for this show might be �Galactica: 90210�.�But they are stationed on this old, outdated, and decrepit battlestar that is literally being held together by bubble-gum and duct tape. If they are going to go on a search, crossing great distances in the galaxy to find the lost planet Earth, don�t you think they�d need a better ship to do that with than a decommissioned museum?????

On a final note, the senior bridge officer Gaeta says something to Baltar that any person watching this miniseries could say to Glen Larson:

"Must be hard for you. Just having something you created, twisted and used like this, must be. . .horrible".

So Say We All! (Could Ron Moore have chosen a more annoying phrase?)

----------------

If you are one of the old school guys who doesn't like the new show, more power to you. I liked the original A Team and if Hollywood redid the series I probably wouldn't be too happy either.

Just don't be one of the dudes who keeps watching it and keeps saying how much they hate it because its not the original.

[Seven]

Goddamn!! 55 reasons! Man, think of the harnessed energy we could make if we could invent technology to covert fanboy rage into a power source! We would be forever rid of oil! We could travel the galaxy!

[bsu legato]

That list was posted just recently, and its every bit as fanboyish as it was the first time I read it.

"OMG, Baltar is liek british an stuff. WTF?"

[azrael]

I don't think we needed to see that entire list....

I will say this, Ron Moore's BSG is more character-based and not so much sci-fi-ish, and I have to keep that in mind when I watch it. I'm very unsatisfied with the props of the show. There are ways to dress-up a gun and a few other things so that they look foreign. Dressing up a FN FiveSeven with a gyrojet launcher is not one of those ways. They could cut the corners off those old ship phones they use across the sets just to make it appear different. And the list goes on...

[Fortress_Maximus]

Ain't that the truth?

"So say we all?"

[Major Johnathan]

Well I don't have 55 reasons to be critical of the new BSG. I only vaguely remember the original show when I was like 4 or 5. So I'm not even a fan of the original.

No fanboy baggage here.

Like I say, I generally liked the mini and season one. It's specifically the first half of season two that has me worried this show is quickly screwing it's self. You can't establish characters and relationships and have them betraying one another in biblical/Shakespearian ways and then, in the course of one episode they're all buddy-buddy again and all is forgiven.

My fundamental gripes;

-They made Apollo turn into a pompous Daddy's boy that gets away with ANYTHING.

-They made Starbuck super slurmty and she's an 'adopted' Daddy's girl that gets away with ANYTHING.

-They made Adama a wuss. "Why you!... ... awwwww shucks, you knucklheads, I love ya anyways!"

-Roslin is friggin nuts. She's turned into a religous wacko BUT she says she'll 'play the religion card' as if to suggest she doesn't believe her own sh*t. So she's nuts or she's a sleazy politician?

-The rest of Galactica's pilots turn into retards without the presence of Starbuck or Apollo. That's just lame.

-They made Pegasus SOOOOOO sadistic just to make the Galactica cast look half-decent by comparison.

-The whole 'let's trust Boomer in spite of our brains' thing.

So that's 7 gripes I got and all occured in the first half of seaon 2. Heck, I can over look a cheesy prop like the guns or even the Humvee, but turning the main characters into such unlikeable twits is what has me down on the show.

[Boxer]

True, my lava-hot hatred for the BSG has cooled some, and looking at the list it does seem a little too fanboyish, but I felt that many of the points there were true. The new BSG lacks substance... and the only real argumentative points new BSG fans have to say their series is better is A) "Realistic characters" and B) Special effects.

Special effects means of course that one could run an entire clip show (or a porno) to attract attention and that's pretty much it. We look at it now and ask 'where's the story?', but of course since flash seems to be the main draw of an audience...

And as for "Realistic Characters'- reviews I've read seem to point to the fact that the characters of the new BSG are more sci-fi steryiotypical than reaslitic. Even the old Cylons were more beleiveable than the new ones...especially when Baltar was beheaded in the origional pilot. In the new ones, there is no clear reason why the Cylons want to kill off humanity...especially when they are using them for grotesque sexual experiments meant to make 'hybrids' (something I hear was borrowed from X_Files).

Even Tigh, when he argues with his wife in one episode, suddenly turns it into a kissfest. This, IMO, isn't beleivable...unless anyone wants to point to a real-life counterpart. Roselin seemed...out of place. The whole notion of the 'Arrow of Athena' and the religious Gemini seemed taked-on, like it was a plastic version of King Arthur's excalliber.

----

The mythology of the origional BSG became apparent after staring at the series and thinking about it for a while. For example, the Lords of Kobol and Kobol itself. The ancient civilizations that pre-existed before mankind. And what of the Light Ships and the 'angels' on them? And who is Count Iblis, and why does he hate the light ships so? What of the telekinetic power of descendants of the Kobollian line?

These things are largely ignored in the new BSG- which focuses on the violence, the sex, the sexual violence, and the contradictorary motives of the Cylons.

One mark agaionst the new galactica is the fact that they removed strong female characters from the origional BSG series. Athena (High Bridge officer), Casseopiea (former socilitor turned combat medtech), and Sheeba (Cain's kickass daughter who was no wuss) are all MIA in the new Galactica for reasons unknown.

Frankly I'm pleased that Glen Larson hasn't allowed Ron More to destroy galactica on the big screen. Here's hoping for a true sequel to the origional galactica that can really shine...much in the way the first two of Richard hatch's books have.

[Graham]

Finally got around to watching the season 2 eps 'Flight of the Phoenix' and 'Pegasus' last week. I'd meant to watch them ages ago, but an overseas holiday followed by various problems at home got in the way. Here's a few short comments on both eps. A little late to the party, I know, but anyway: -

Flight of the Phoenix

For the first time in both seasons I really have mixed feelings about a BSG episode. On the positive side, it was nice to finally see the confrontation between Chief Tyrol and Helo over Sharon. I'd been waiting for this to happen for a while now and thought it was handled well. I also enjoyed the firing range scene with Apollo and Starbuck.

On the negative side, there were several things I didn't like about this episode. Firstly, I thought Chief Tyrol designing and building the Stealth Viper in the space of 1 episode was absolutely ridiculous. True the guy is a talented mechanic and knows how to repair Vipers and Raptors, but designing a fighter from scratch is a whole different kettle of fish. And while the time span of this episode was not stated, it didn't seem to take more than a few days or a week at the outside. Even being generous and saying the episode took place over the course of a month would not realistically be enough time for a project of this scope.

Then there's the whole discovery that carbon fiber panels block Dradis. You mean to tell me that the 12 Colonies have had the technology to create fold capable starships for ages and have (or had) the technology to create artificial intelligence (the Cylons), but in all that time nobody ever came up with Stealth technology until this humble flight deck mechanic stumbles on it by chance, by just sticking carbon fibre panels on a ship instead of metal panels. I dunno, for me that involves too big a suspension of disbelief from a series that has so far prided itself on being relatively realistic for a sci-fi show.

Secondly, why did the Cylons attempt to attack the Galactica in this episode, when just one episode previously in 'Final Cut', they state that "the baby (meaning Sharon's) must be protected at all costs." Doesn't make sense to me.

Thirdly, I thought the whole thing with Boomer sticking the cable in her arm to send the virus back at the Cylon attack fleet was terribly contrived and smacked of deus ex machina. Human type Cylons are supposed to be so indistinguishable from normal humans that they cannot be detected by normal medical tests so how the heck can she do that anyway? Guess it's going to be that old standby 'nano technology' huh? Basically what I'm getting at is if the human Cylons, bleed like humans, die like humans, feel pain and emotion like humans and can give birth like humans, then they are effectively humans, albeit ones with spines that can glow red and increased physical strength . Now I like to think I'm human and I know for damn sure that if I stick a USB cable into my arm, the only thing that's going to happen is that it's gonna hurt like a son of a bitch. Ain't no way I'm gonna be using it to transmit viruses.

Pegasus

Now this episode I loved, no question about it. I thought the design of the Pegasus was great, sort of like a squashed up Battlestar from the original show.

I'm not going to get into the whole torture thing with No.6 and Sharon. Personally it didn't bother me and I thought it was handled well.

Now some of you have suggested that the whole crew of the Pegasus are human Cylons. Personally, I don't think so.

My theory is that Admiral Cain is definitely one though, which was how she was allowed to escape from the dockyard.

I also approve of the casting for Cain. She is one tough lady (or Cylon?).

Can't wait for the second half of season 2.

Graham

[myk]

I'm glad you enjoyed the Pegasus episode. I also think you're lucky that you haven't seen the episode until now, as the wait for the conclusion to that cliffhanger is on January 6th and is only a month away for you. The rest of us, on the other hand, have been waiting since.....October? I hate waiting...

-That means you too, Yamato, with your VF-0 coming out in April!

As for possible plot holes in flight of the Phoenix, I don't get the Blackbird thing either. When you take into account that replacement parts for existing Vipers are depleted, how do you build a new one from scratch, and with stealth capabilities no less? And speaking of stealth capabilities, it was Helo that came up with the idea, and that idea was in the form of an afterthought, not in the way of research and development.

I don't see why Tyrol and Helo are upset. In time they can find additional copies of Sharon and then they'll both be happy.

Another thing, whatever happened to Sharon's baby?

In regards to the attack on the Galactica, the Cylons were trying to incapacitate the fleet with their virus, therefor I suggest that the Cylons' intentions were to capture the Galactica, at best.

Finally, Sharon's ability to pass for a human with mechanicals under her skin is plausible, just think T3's TX. I'm sure that X-rays or other probes into their bodies, short of actually performing surgery, could be foiled by whatever machinations they carry within themselves...

Edited December 8, 2005 by myk

[Major Johnathan]

I don't know Graham, you can pick apart technical reasons to not like 'Flight of the Phoenix' (which I agree with) but the crew of the Pegasus didn't strike you as just a tad too sadistic to be believable? A female Captain that says to her male crew members 'here ya go boys, have at the sexy blonde prisoner chained up in the dungeon' 'and enjoy that sweet new one aboard Galactica while your at it'

Then arrest and instantly try,convict and sentence to death two of the very few trained(pilot and ace mechanic) humans left alive?

They portray Pegasus as a serious professional military ship to contrast the unmilitary,slack-offs on Galactica BUT make Pegasus over the top sex feind bullies so Galactica's crew doesn't look THAT bad.

The whole episode smacked of 'shock value' nonsense to me. Maybe in the 2nd part, Adama will capture Cain and spank her naked ass in front of the whole fleet? Then Roslin will join in for some shocking girl-girl action...

Like I said before, if these are the quality of humans remaining, I hope the Cylons win.

[CoryHolmes]

Flight of the Phoenix

On the negative side, there were several things I didn't like about this episode. Firstly, I thought Chief Tyrol designing and building the Stealth Viper in the space of 1 episode was absolutely ridiculous. True the guy is a talented mechanic and knows how to repair Vipers and Raptors, but designing a fighter from scratch is a whole different kettle of fish. And while the time span of this episode was not stated, it didn't seem to take more than a few days or a week at the outside. Even being generous and saying the episode took place over the course of a month would not realistically be enough time for a project of this scope.

If you know what you're doing and have sufficent motivation, it's possible to design and build a car in just a few weeks. I'll admit that doing that for a space-worthy craft is a bit of a stretch, but not so much.

I don't know Graham, you can pick apart technical reasons to not like 'Flight of the Phoenix' (which I agree with) but the crew of the Pegasus didn't strike you as just a tad too sadistic to be believable? A female Captain that says to her male crew members 'here ya go boys, have at the sexy blonde prisoner chained up in the dungeon' 'and enjoy that sweet new one aboard Galactica while your at it'

Then arrest and instantly try,convict and sentence to death two of the very few trained(pilot and ace mechanic) humans left alive?

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutly. Adama and Rosilyn have been keeping the other in check. He has to make compromises to get along with her, and she has to do the same. Admiral Cain hasn't. Over the last year and half she's had her complete control and nobody has been around to step in and stop her.

Maybe she cracked psychologically because of the Cylon assault, or maybe she was always this sadistic and the Fleet Command kept her in line. Either way, now that she's had aboslurme power over the people under her command, it's corrupted her absolutly.

[DeathHammer]

RDM says in his podcasts that the conflict between Galactica and Pegasus is somewhat of an homage to Crimson Tide. In Tide, Gene Hackman and Denzel Washington were both right and they were both wrong.

Cain is Hackman. The point of being a military vessel is to win battles and destroy the enemy.

Adama is Washington. The point of being a military vessel is to protect you society and your way of life at all costs even though you know war is pointless.

Cain is right, Adama has become too soft. Too soft with his son, too soft with his crew, too forgiving of the thankless schoolteacher. Shes also right in that protecting her crew comes first, even if you have to get dirty to do it. What? Like any of you wouldn't kill everyone on this board if it meant that was the only way to protect your spouse and children from harm? And Cain did not benefit from constant resupply from a fleet.

Adama is right, Cain doesn't see the big picture. Things have changed. The issue is about survival of the species not just the survival of the Colonial Fleet. Adama knows he can't ride people too hard, there is no formal commitment by anyone to stay in the Fleet other than thats all these people know. He knows morale is a tenous thing. But Adama is wrong, the Cyclons killed everyone, he has grown old and mellow with age, hes not ruthless enough anymore to do what needs to be done. Hence his reliance on Col Tigh.

I think its a mistake to assume Cain is wrong and the Pegasus crew are a bunch of senseless murdering pirates. The episode doesn't help that conclusion but the rest of the story isn't shown yet. Even though its understandable why Tyrol and Helo killed the rapist, its also easy to understand why Cain doesn't give a rats ass about the whys. It was her man. Just like Adama doesn't care that it was her man, because Tyrol and Helo belong to him. I don't know how many of you out there are in management positions now whereever you are, but therse something to be said about protecting your own, even if you know they are wrong.

As for people who don't like the show, I won't get into how detailed some of the arguments have been against the new BSG ( which means some detractors are probably watching the show far more closely than people who like it. Ironic huh?) I would just say there are some guys who didn't like this show 20-30 pages back in this thread and they are still talking about it. It doesn't make alot of sense if they keep disliking the show and will still be talking about it 20-30 pages down the road.

[Dobber]

Here Here! Well said.

Chris

[big F]

Last few post were very informative thats everyone.

With the current remake phenomenon in the cinema and on tv ( Spiderman/ Kojac etc)

how long will it be till we see Buck Rogers again. I for one hope to se a more modern version of Wilma Dearing mmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!

[myk]

Yeah, what we need is an updated version of that hawk-guy. Also, I saw an episode on Sci-fi the other day, and I had forgotten how good Erin Gray looked back in the day...

[Major Johnathan]

Maybe that's my problem, I thought Crimson Tide was a fairly bad movie. A reality check; Jimmy Carter skippered a Nuclear armed submarine... So I doubt there's many Captain Blighs/Queegs lurking about in the Navy. Wish there were, the rest of the world might be less likely to screw with us.

I gripe because I liked the show a lot prior to season 2. The integrity of the main characters seems almost hopelessly lost since season 2. My big hope at this point is for some very cool space battles. I can't see how they restore credibilty and IMHO likeability to the main characters. Apollo and Starbuck mainly. I still like Adama even though they half neutered him lately.

Roslin is the one character I never liked much, she never seemed grounded in reality but now she's just nuts, or corrupt. They haven't decided I guess.

[Graham]

Personally, I'm fine with how ruthless the Pegasus crew seems. The way I look at it, is that just like the crew of Galactica, they have seen their entire civilization wiped out and thought they were the last surving humans.

However, unlike Galactica, they did not have a rag-tag fleet of civilian ships to protect, so rather than running away as Galactica did, they decided to go on the offensive and hunt Cylons, which would necessitate being somewhat ruthless in order to survive against the entire might of the Cylons.

Plus, I doubt it's the whole crew of Pegasus that is so cut-throat and ruthless, just Cain and a few select officers and crew, but that is enough.

Anyway, I still stand by my theory that Cain will turn out to be a Cylon.

Graham