A Robotech comics of Zentraedi fighting the Invid.

[Invid99]

21 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There was an attempt... but the fan group working on it only got as far as producing one very basic teaser trailer to promote their project before Harmony Gold slapped them with a cease-and-desist order and then filed DMCA notices against all of the group's DeviantArt pages.  (Oddly, they even went after non-Robotech fan works on those DeviantArt pages... like the director's Star Trek fan art.)

I ended up with a front row seat to that one because one very stupid Robotech fan tried to shift the blame for the cease-and-desist to me personally.  He tried to convince them I'd forged the legal papers they received demanding a halt to the project, and when they didn't buy that, that I'd somehow influenced Harmony Gold to kill the project because I'm just such an evil guy, y'know?  He even tried to persuade them to file a lawsuit against me.  Ironically, I only learned about the project because of that... when the fan film group behind the project reached out to me to let me know what that particular crazy person had been saying and assure me they didn't believe a word of it.  Swell guys, as it turned out, shame they fell afoul of Harmony Gold's attempts to create a fan film section on the old robotech.com site with the same draconian submission guidelines as the fan art and fan fiction sections.  

Darn I didn't know it was such a mess and conflict in this. 

[Invid99]

25 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

No, it was called Robotech: Genesis.

It was supposed to be the Robotech origin story, with Zor discovering the Invid, the Masters attacking their homeworld, etc. etc.

No Zentradi in sight, it was all Bioroids and Invid.  The one shot I remember really clearly from their development portfolio was a massed regiment of Bioroids marching.

The closest bioroids fighting invids are the Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles comics. I'm reading it now and it's fun. 

[Podtastic]

1 hour ago, Invid99 said:

Okay I changed the Gamo's size since you said it will be the counterpart of the Glaug.

@Podtastic

 

Cool. It's nice to imagine what could be, and not just stick what is, and what is "official."

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It was supposed to be the Robotech origin story, with Zor discovering the Invid, the Masters attacking their homeworld, etc. etc.

That could actually be pretty good if executed properly. 

Get the audience invested in Zor's story, take them along on a journey of discovery with the Aztaph crew, add intricacy to the plot where what happens isn't predictable beyond high level, and factor in high quality animation and dynamic combat scenes.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Podtastic

[Seto Kaiba]

20 minutes ago, Invid99 said:

Darn I didn't know it was such a mess and conflict in this. 

Oh, that's just Tuesday to the Robotech fandom. 😅

I'd say it's cursed, but there are cursed properties that don't have it that hard.

 

16 minutes ago, Invid99 said:

The closest bioroids fighting invids are the Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles comics. I'm reading it now and it's fun. 

Prelude was Harmony Gold's effort to clean house and gently usher everyone and everything that was either too expensive, legally problematic, or just wildly unpopular out of the franchise for good so they could focus on their MOSPEADA-based ripoff of the Battlestar Galactica reboot.  So they removed all the non-MOSPEADA human mecha, banned using the Sentinels knockoff Macross designs, killed off all the remaining Zentradi in the setting, killed off the Invid Regent's forces so the Invid would be gone from the universe too at the start of the Shadow Chronicles proper, chucked the last couple Bioroids on the Zentradi's funeral pyre, put the remaining Macross Saga cast on a bus except for Admiral Plot Critical, and gave one last hurrah to the Sentinels original characters before dumping them for suspiciously similar replacements.  They did everything they could to ensure there would be no reminiscing about previous sagas from that point forward... which would've been the rule for the entire franchise had the "movie" not bombed.

[Podtastic]

10 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Oh, that's just Tuesday to the Robotech fandom. 😅

I'd say it's cursed, but there are cursed properties that don't have it that hard.

 

Prelude was Harmony Gold's effort to clean house and gently usher everyone and everything that was either too expensive, legally problematic, or just wildly unpopular out of the franchise for good so they could focus on their MOSPEADA-based ripoff of the Battlestar Galactica reboot.  So they removed all the non-MOSPEADA human mecha, banned using the Sentinels knockoff Macross designs, killed off all the remaining Zentradi in the setting, killed off the Invid Regent's forces so the Invid would be gone from the universe too at the start of the Shadow Chronicles proper, chucked the last couple Bioroids on the Zentradi's funeral pyre, put the remaining Macross Saga cast on a bus except for Admiral Plot Critical, and gave one last hurrah to the Sentinels original characters before dumping them for suspiciously similar replacements.  They did everything they could to ensure there would be no reminiscing about previous sagas from that point forward... which would've been the rule for the entire franchise had the "movie" not bombed.

What you describe sounds like what you do when you either have no inkling of WHY your fans are fans in the first place, or you just don't give a damn (see wokeism). Or both.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Podtastic

[Invid99]

36 minutes ago, Podtastic said:

Cool. It's nice to imagine what could be, and not just stick what is, and what is "official."

That could actually be pretty good if executed properly. 

Get the audience invested in Zor's story, take them along on a journey of discovery with the Aztaph crew, add intricacy to the plot where what happens isn't predictable beyond high level, and factor in high quality animation and dynamic combat scenes.

Do you think the Invid can win through sheer numbers if they retain their original size against the Zentraedi? Or the Regess just upgraded their firepower to be equal to Zentraedi forces. 

[Seto Kaiba]

29 minutes ago, Podtastic said:

What you describe sounds like what you do when you either have no inkling of WHY your fans are fans in the first place, or you just don't give a damn (see wokeism). Or both.

No, it's what you do when you know exactly what your fans want but can't give it to them because...

• ... your franchise is a long-dead industry joke that wouldn't have been able to afford it at any point in its history, never mind now.
• ... you'd get sued into oblivion for infringement of copyright.
• ... what your fanbase wants isn't marketable outside your fanbase, meaning it has zero chance of growing your brand.
• ... what the vocal minority in your fanbase wants isn't marketable, even to the rest of the fanbase.
• ... your fanbase are fractious arseholes who'll complain endlessly about it anyway for failing to live up to their rose-tinted or completely false memories from their youth.

Prelude and Shadow Chronicles were a kick in the arse intended to get the franchise moving again and make a clean break with the stuff that doesn't sell (e.g. the New Generation and Masters Saga) and the stuff that can't be used (e.g. the Macross Saga).

That, combined with some lingering copyright issues due to serial infringement by 90's licensees, are why ideas from old comics like an Invid v. Zentradi storyline were never to be revisited.

 

2 minutes ago, Invid99 said:

Do you think the Invid can win through sheer numbers if they retain their original size against the Zentraedi?

Maybe if the Zentradi get indigestion after the biggest clam bake in galactic history... but otherwise, no.

The Invid don't even pose a credible threat in the New Generation itself.  Up against a foe that isn't holding the idiot ball 24/7, they have no chance.

 

2 minutes ago, Invid99 said:

Or the Regess just upgraded their firepower to be equal to Zentraedi forces. 

Then you have to explain away why they don't have this capability later on... when it would actually be useful.

[Invid99]

3 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Maybe if the Zentradi get indigestion after the biggest clam bake in galactic history... but otherwise, no.

The Invid don't even pose a credible threat in the New Generation itself.  Up against a foe that isn't holding the idiot ball 24/7, they have no chance.

Could the Invid give the Zentraedi a big bloody nose before going down? How will the battle be like and will the Zentraedi suffer more casaulties then against UN Spacy?

[jenius]

It's sci Fi, you can literally have whatever you want happen. You can make the invid way more powerful than the Zentraedi... As long as you do something that explains how things get where they go. 

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, Invid99 said:

Could the Invid give the Zentraedi a big bloody nose before going down?

Perhaps literally... as in, an Invid could smack a Zentradi in the nose with that blunt little claw and give them a bloody nose.

Figuratively?  No.  The massive difference in the scale of conflict is kind of the elephant in the room for Robotech's later sagas.  The later antagonists were much less capable than the Zentradi, as a result of the less ambitious scale of the original shows, so canon Robotech always kind of tried to avoid the whole subject.  Titan's comics had a few piss-take moments referencing the problem.  It's essentially a reversed Sorting Algorithm of Evil where the strongest enemy was fought first and both sides were progressively weaker each time.  RTSC's story was the first real attempt to buck that trend, by establishing the Haydonites had wrecked the Invid with impunity in the distant past the same way the Masters had.

 

6 minutes ago, Invid99 said:

How will the battle be like and will the Zentraedi suffer more casaulties then against UN Spacy?

In a word, "What battle?".

The Haydonites and the Robotech Masters both canonically rolled up with a fleet, turned the Invid's planet into a parking lot, and left without facing much (if any) opposition.  

Basically, like episode 27 of Macross/the Macross Saga, but without the Grand Cannon or counterattacking fleet.  Just a brief apocalypse and maybe some celebratory drinks after.

To make the Invid a credible threat to... well... anyone, you'd have to completely rework them and then you're stuck explaining why they've seemingly regressed to Mostly Harmless by the time they attack a defenseless Tirol or almost-defenseless Earth.

[Invid99]

8 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

In a word, "What battle?".

The Haydonites and the Robotech Masters both canonically rolled up with a fleet, turned the Invid's planet into a parking lot, and left without facing much (if any) opposition.  

Basically, like episode 27 of Macross/the Macross Saga, but without the Grand Cannon or counterattacking fleet.  Just a brief apocalypse and maybe some celebratory drinks after.

To make the Invid a credible threat to... well... anyone, you'd have to completely rework them and then you're stuck explaining why they've seemingly regressed to Mostly Harmless by the time they attack a defenseless Tirol or almost-defenseless Earth.

A bit off-topic, but let's say the Robotech Masters aka Zor left a heavy garrison of ships and bioroids to defend Tirol from the Invid in the movie The Sentinels. Since the Zentraedi like you said will have no problems defeating the Invid due to size difference and millions of ships, how would the Masters do against them when those differences are gone? We see Tirol getting stomped in the movie because it just had a skeleton defence. But what if there were hundreds of motherships and thousands to tens of thousands bioroids? Could the Masters that created the Zentraedi from the Robotech lore stop the Invids invasion?

Edited December 22, 2021 by Invid99

[Einherjar]

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, Invid99 said:

We see Tirol getting stomped in the movie because it just had a skeleton defence. But what if there were hundreds of motherships and thousands to tens of thousands bioroids? Could the Masters that created the Zentraedi from the Robotech lore stop the Invids invasion?

Given that the Invid Regent's forces spent the better part of twenty years getting repeatedly rolled by a few thousand human soldiers with comparatively primitive weapons before his entire force was wiped out by being shot in the back by an ally mid-fight, it strikes me as rather unlikely that they'd pose much threat to a much more advanced military with far more manpower behind it.

Even the original Genesis Climber MOSPEADA had a lot of trouble trying to make the Invit out to be a serious threat to anyone.  There were a lot of them and they were indifferent to their own casualties, but that's all they had going for them militarily.  Once you got past that, they were just big, clumsy, dim-witted mechanical bugs that could be killed easily using man-portable laser weapons and rocket-propelled grenades without even being able to shoot back.

[DewPoint]

I haven't watched Southern Cross in forever!  Can a Zor ship take on a Zentradi ship?  I don't recall Zor ships having that much firepower.

[Podtastic]

46 minutes ago, DewPoint said:

I haven't watched Southern Cross in forever!  Can a Zor ship take on a Zentradi ship?  I don't recall Zor ships having that much firepower.

If your are refering to the alien fortresses, then I think yes very easily. They had those extremely powerful canons that were one- shotting human cruisers, had some form of energy shields and extremely durable hulls. And remember the most numerous Zentradi ships is the Tou Redir.

 

10 hours ago, Invid99 said:

Do you think the Invid can win through sheer numbers if they retain their original size against the Zentraedi? Or the Regess just upgraded their firepower to be equal to Zentraedi forces. 

Smaller Invid mecha means each one is individually less powerful, otherwise size would offer no advantage.

Yes, but it would require an even more MASSIVE numerical advantage. The invid are reliant on deploying as many mecha as they an as quickly as they can, they dont have much in the way of warships. Only some large ships are hinted at in the novels and shown in the comics.

The invid carriers need to fold in as close as possible to the objective and deploy immediately, because they are big juicy targets for Zentraedi guns.

If their firepower is upgraded to equal, but their numbers are not equal or in fact greater, then they have no chance. Even with equal numbers victory will be difficult for them. The Invid rely on swarming the enemy. They don't have experience in using long range firepower.

The Zentraedi on the other hand have LOT of experience in fire control, and with tactics in general. 

The Regis and the Living Computers would need to learn very quickly.

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, DewPoint said:

I haven't watched Southern Cross in forever!  Can a Zor ship take on a Zentradi ship?  I don't recall Zor ships having that much firepower.

Almost certainly not... though, I suspect, as much from a simple lack of inclination as from a difference in the scale of warfare between shows.  The Zor were quite advanced, but they were also a fundamentally peaceful people who'd retooled their entire culture from the ground up to forsake conflict after their civil war left Glorie in the grip of a nuclear winter like their ancestors had done to Earth.  Despite a head start measured in millennia, their weapons technology was mostly on par with the Southern Cross Army's despite being a lot more complex.

[Podtastic]

40 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Almost certainly not...

Care to explain that?

How is a Tou Redir going to withstand the Zor's immensely powerful interlacing beam guns?

[Invid99]

9 hours ago, Podtastic said:

If your are refering to the alien fortresses, then I think yes very easily. They had those extremely powerful canons that were one- shotting human cruisers, had some form of energy shields and extremely durable hulls. And remember the most numerous Zentradi ships is the Tou Redir.

 

Smaller Invid mecha means each one is individually less powerful, otherwise size would offer no advantage.

Yes, but it would require an even more MASSIVE numerical advantage. The invid are reliant on deploying as many mecha as they an as quickly as they can, they dont have much in the way of warships. Only some large ships are hinted at in the novels and shown in the comics.

The invid carriers need to fold in as close as possible to the objective and deploy immediately, because they are big juicy targets for Zentraedi guns.

If their firepower is upgraded to equal, but their numbers are not equal or in fact greater, then they have no chance. Even with equal numbers victory will be difficult for them. The Invid rely on swarming the enemy. They don't have experience in using long range firepower.

The Zentraedi on the other hand have LOT of experience in fire control, and with tactics in general. 

The Regis and the Living Computers would need to learn very quickly.

 

 

I get the feeling the Invid in Sentinels are more powerful than the ones in Mospeada. Like you mentioned, they had more ships and vehicles in the novels and comics. Also, slightly size differences as well. But I agree, the Zentraedi's experience in fire control and warfare in general gives them a huge advantaged over the Invid. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Invid99

[Podtastic]

1 hour ago, Invid99 said:

I get the feeling the Invid in Sentinels are more powerful than the ones in Mospeada. Like you mentioned, they had more ships and vehicles in the novels and comics. Also, slightly size differences as well. But I agree, the Zentraedi's experience in fire control and warfare in general gives them a huge advantaged over the Invid. 

Well I preferred them because of the Inorganics, particularly the Hellcats 

I'm not sure they were necessarily more powerful overall.

I think it's more of an issue of different focus due to being under different management. The Regent (like me) was big on the war toys and conquest whereas the Regis was more interested in evolving her race to adapt to their new home.

Possibly the Regent's forces had more military assets.

The Regis Invid OTH developed the Gamo and Gosu and had (IMO) a smarter leader who seemed to have some amazing transmutation and transubstantion powers.

Definitely the alien factions are very powerful in the novels. The Zentraedi ships are shrugging off nukes and railgun fire in their initial advance into earth space in the first novel.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Podtastic

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, Podtastic said:

How is a Tou Redir going to withstand the Zor's immensely powerful interlacing beam guns?

What's a "Tou Redir"?  

Also, the simple answer... as noted previously, despite a technological head-start measured in millennia, the Zor's weapons technology isn't depicted as being significantly more powerful or more effective than the basic laser weapons that are the Southern Cross Army's stock in trade.  What's more, the setting generally presents laser weapons as being roughly equivalent in power to a conventional gun of the same bore... a trait shared with MOSPEADA for the most part.  They're not "immensely powerful".  We're shown that the fairly primitive space warships fielded by the Southern Cross Army can tank multiple hits from them without issue or impediment.

The reason these comparisons always run into problems is a difference in the scale of technology.  Most mecha anime, including Southern Cross and MOSPEADA, are on a level much closer to real world technology despite having things like giant robots.  You could say UC Gundam is the archetype there.  Giant robots might be able to generate a couple megawatts of power at most, and a megawatt is a lot of power in a generator or an energy weapon.  A mecha-mounted weapon might have an effective range of a kilometer or two, and a warship maybe tens of kilometers in good conditions.  Energy weapons as a whole generally aren't significantly more powerful than conventional alternatives... just more space-efficient and accurate.  Macross is really quite unusual as a mecha series for shunning that convention and going to almost the opposite extreme chasing a power system that could realistically provide the instantaneous acceleration of a high performance jet engine even in space.  A megawatt is, consequently, a piddlingly small amount of power with even small fighter-mounted beam weapons throwing around tens or hundreds of megawatts and ship-based weapons using anywhere from thousands to millions or billions of megawatts with ranges to match.

Spoiler

To put the difference in perspective using an example from Gundam since Southern Cross drew so much inspiration from it... the longest-ranged beam cannon ever built during the One Year War had a maximum effective range of 300km in ideal conditions, massively out-ranging any ship-based beam cannon.  The first exchange of energy weapons fire between humanity and the Zentradi took place at a range of slightly under 300,000km using conventional turret-based cannons.

It's part of why the creators of Robotech stayed away from depicting the Zentradi fighting... well... anyone.  The scale of them is just so different to anything else in Robotech that there's no plausible way anyone could actually win against them in a fair fight.  How's a hostile alien power that could barely cope with a few thousand human troops despite the benefit of superior numbers supposed to credibly fend off a force of seven billion soldiers, each of whom is more resilient than a main battle tank in their underwear?  The scale of the threat they pose is so huge that even in Macross the only way they can be worked into the narrative is as an invincible apocalyptic threat to be avoided at all costs.

 

 

3 hours ago, Invid99 said:

I get the feeling the Invid in Sentinels are more powerful than the ones in Mospeada. Like you mentioned, they had more ships and vehicles in the novels and comics. Also, slightly size differences as well. But I agree, the Zentraedi's experience in fire control and warfare in general gives them a huge advantaged over the Invid. 

They're more aggressive, not necessarily more powerful... and there is no size difference it's just dodgy off-model animation from the ultra-low budget Sentinels series.

[pengbuzz]

On 12/22/2021 at 10:02 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Let us not do or say anything that might give anyone the insane idea to revive the Robotech Swimsuit Spectacular.

There is nobody sane on this Earth or any alternate Earth who wants to see that.

Mind you, if you want to tell a story like this - about an army of interchangeable and expendable one-dimensional gung-ho stock characters fighting a pitched battle against a huge swarm of interchangeable and expendable utterly generlc giant space bugs - in the final analysis you're just doing an unauthorized remake of 1997's Starship Troopers without any of the social commentary and satire that justified the original's hamminess.

It's basically a story for one very specific kind of fan...

 

The last official position they had was that the 85 episode TV series, the non-AU post-reboot licensed comics, and the Shadow Chronicles "movie" were canon and everything else was non-canon except the Sentinels movie, which was broad strokes canon only.

That said, they definitely gave up enforcing their official setting in licensed works after they finally admitted Shadow Rising had been cancelled all along and ragequit a Kickstarter for an animated side story.  That's when the bottom fell out again and we started seeing the licensees just doing whatever again followed by Harmony Gold essentially farming all future licensed product development out to Funimation.

 

Which is inevitably embarrassing for the authors and audience alike at best... and is all downhill from there.

 

That would kind of require Robotech to... y'know... not have been a complete and utter trashfire for the last 36+ years? 

 

There was an attempt... but the fan group working on it only got as far as producing one very basic teaser trailer to promote their project before Harmony Gold slapped them with a cease-and-desist order and then filed DMCA notices against all of the group's DeviantArt pages.  (Oddly, they even went after non-Robotech fan works on those DeviantArt pages... like the director's Star Trek fan art.)

I ended up with a front row seat to that one because one very stupid Robotech fan tried to shift the blame for the cease-and-desist to me personally.  He tried to convince them I'd forged the legal papers they received demanding a halt to the project, and when they didn't buy that, that I'd somehow influenced Harmony Gold to kill the project because I'm just such an evil guy, y'know?  He even tried to persuade them to file a lawsuit against me.  Ironically, I only learned about the project because of that... when the fan film group behind the project reached out to me to let me know what that particular crazy person had been saying and assure me they didn't believe a word of it.  Swell guys, as it turned out, shame they fell afoul of Harmony Gold's attempts to create a fan film section on the old robotech.com site with the same draconian submission guidelines as the fan art and fan fiction sections.  

 

No, it was called Robotech: Genesis.

It was supposed to be the Robotech origin story, with Zor discovering the Invid, the Masters attacking their homeworld, etc. etc.

No Zentradi in sight, it was all Bioroids and Invid.  The one shot I remember really clearly from their development portfolio was a massed regiment of Bioroids marching.

Just wow... talk about deluded!

I'm starting to wonder if we need Robotech-fan vaccines to protect us from them!

[Podtastic]

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

What's a "Tou Redir"?  

The smallest class of Zentraedi warship. We see 2 of them being destroyed at the beginning of Macross.

Saying a Zor fortress is no match for a Zentraedi warship means ANY Zentraedi warship, even the least formidable.

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

hey're not "immensely powerful".  We're shown that the fairly primitive space warships fielded by the Southern Cross Army can tank multiple hits from them without issue or impediment.

Wrong, one hit and the cruisers are destroyed. I'm referring to the interlacing beam weapons, not their anti-mecha guns.

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

and there is no size difference it's just dodgy off-model animation from the ultra-low budget Sentinels series.

They are clearly depicted as larger as shown when the Regent grabs a Tirolian. Also when the Malar-gan tosses the Tirolian the grenade.

If it is an error It is a good one.One of the things I loved about the Waltrip comic series, despite its silliness, was that they kept these Malar gigigantic. 

That "ultra-low budget" series contained quite a few goodies. Hellcats. Bioroids vs Invid. Our first glimpse of the Tirolian homeworld etc. And the animation of the attack on Tiresia was superp and I rewatch it often. I just wish we had more of it.

 

[505thAirborne]

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Podtastic said:

The smallest class of Zentraedi warship. We see 2 of them being destroyed at the beginning of Macross.

That's not the name of that class of ships in Macross or Robotech, hence my confusion.

 

2 hours ago, Podtastic said:

Saying a Zor fortress is no match for a Zentraedi warship means ANY Zentraedi warship, even the least formidable.

Yes, that is kind of what I'm saying.

The difference in the level of capability between the two settings is a difference measured in multiple orders of magnitude.  It's why these kind of comparisons are problematic at best, and a lost cause at worst... and why the Robotech setting leaves the question of who exactly the Zentradi were created to fight unanswered.  There isn't a plausible answer in the setting because they're so ridiculously overpowered compared to everyone else.  (Which, when you think about it, makes them an amazing deterrant if you're empire-building... and would explain why the Masters went unchallenged until the well ran dry on their macguffin fuel source.)  It's like how Star Trek originally regarded the Borg... they were one of the show's most impressive villains, but they were so hard to write for because they were made so powerful in their first few appearances that they were impossible to use in any story that involved fighting them.

TBH I'm not even sure why this is a surprise to you... the Zentradi are a clone army created by sufficiently advanced aliens, while the Zor are a race of mutated, temporally-displaced human technical pacifists.  You wouldn't expect a species like the Zor, who abolished not only war but all internal conflict through genetic and social engineering to come loaded for bear.

 

2 hours ago, Podtastic said:

Wrong, one hit and the cruisers are destroyed. I'm referring to the interlacing beam weapons, not their anti-mecha guns.

For the record, the Zor "motherships" only have one kind of beam cannon turret in the series and production materials.  They seem to have just stopped drawing the spiraling beam effect partway through the series.  It was probably too expensive to draw on a regular basis.  There are one or two shots showing ships seemingly being destroyed in one hit, but in most cases the Southern Cross Army's ships are shown taking many hits without incident.

 

2 hours ago, Podtastic said:

They are clearly depicted as larger as shown when the Regent grabs a Tirolian. Also when the Malar-gan tosses the Tirolian the grenade.

That's not what we were talking about... that's a one-of-a-kind in-universe character, not the designs shared between the original MOSPEADA animation and the low budget work done for Robotech II: the Sentinels.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[jenius]

This whole back and forth is still nonsense... All of it is changeable, especially when Seto builds arguments around canon original series doctrine. Robotech is a mess. The invid were feared by everyone... The Masters warn about them... I think even the Zentraedi do. Sure, they may have seemed like clumsy bugs in the show, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have been more formidable in the past or even that they're just poorly represented. Even in what we see, the REF is like "meh, we'll never beat them, let's just blow up Earth." So, if you want them to be stronger than the Zentraedi, then they were. If Seto wants them to be the weakest, that's easily arrived at also.

[Big s]

I think I’d rather see a story about the Zentradi vs the supervision army as a side thing or maybe even a story going way back to their creators, but I don’t know if that could be made with the awkward licensing on either side of the ocean. But maybe I’m wrong since things are getting a bit more open as far as what’s allowed 

[Invid99]

7 hours ago, Podtastic said:

They are clearly depicted as larger as shown when the Regent grabs a Tirolian. Also when the Malar-gan tosses the Tirolian the grenade.

If it is an error It is a good one.One of the things I loved about the Waltrip comic series, despite its silliness, was that they kept these Malar gigigantic. 

That "ultra-low budget" series contained quite a few goodies. Hellcats. Bioroids vs Invid. Our first glimpse of the Tirolian homeworld etc. And the animation of the attack on Tiresia was superp and I rewatch it often. I just wish we had more of it.

Oh did the Sentinels comics had any Zentraedi mecha fighting the Invid even though they were a part of the UN Spacy?

[Podtastic]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That's not what we were talking about... that's a one-of-a-kind in-universe character, not the designs shared

The only Invid mecha that is different in size between shows is the Regent's Malar vs the Regis's. The former scale with the Regent who scales with the Regis.

5 hours ago, jenius said:

This whole back and forth is still nonsense... All of it is changeable, especially when Seto builds arguments around canon original series doctrine. Robotech is a mess. The invid were feared by everyone... The Masters warn about them... I think even the Zentraedi do. Sure, they may have seemed like clumsy bugs in the show, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have been more formidable in the past or even that they're just poorly represented. Even in what we see, the REF is like "meh, we'll never beat them, let's just blow up Earth." So, if you want them to be stronger than the Zentraedi, then they were. If Seto wants them to be the weakest, that's easily arrived at also.

Exactly so.

1 hour ago, Invid99 said:

Oh did the Sentinels comics had any Zentraedi mecha fighting the Invid even though they were a part of the UN Spacy?

I cant recall. I cant check my comics either as I'm n my hometown for Christmas.

And on that note.

Happy Christmas everyone.🥳

Edited December 24, 2021 by Podtastic

[TehPW]

Ok, I'll ask: Is Invid99 another account of Brofessor? This autistic obsession with an IP that we celebrate when we get to piss on, is quite... odious. I'll admit its good popcorn discussion but in the end, i'd rather discuss things like.... anything BUT Robotech. 

 

and Merry Xmas, everyone.

Edited December 24, 2021 by TehPW
Tis the season to remove our asshats and be CIVIL...

[Invid99]

20 minutes ago, Podtastic said:

The only Invid mecha that is different in size between shows is the Regent's Malar vs the Regis's. The former scale with the Regent who scales with the Regis.

Exactly so.

I cant recall. I cant check my comics either as I'm n my hometown for Christmas.

And on that note.

Happy Christmas everyone.🥳

Happy Christmas to you and everyone here!

[Invid99]

37 minutes ago, TehPW said:

Ok, I'll ask: Is Invid99 another account of Brofessor? This autistic obsession with an IP that we celebrate when we get to piss on, is quite... odious. I'll admit its good popcorn discussion but in the end, i'd rather discuss things like.... anything BUT Robotech. 

 

and Merry Xmas, everyone.

No I'm not the person you think I am. Just interested in Macross and Robotech, despite I know many don't. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Invid99

[pengbuzz]

59 minutes ago, TehPW said:

Ok, I'll ask: Is Invid99 another account of Brofessor? This autistic obsession with an IP that we celebrate when we get to piss on, is quite... odious. I'll admit its good popcorn discussion but in the end, i'd rather discuss things like.... anything BUT Robotech. 

 

and Merry Xmas, everyone.

Thanks.

Yeah... to that end, I'm pretty much done in this thread. It's like trying to argue why an ant armed with a grain of sand should be able to take on an entire Air Force fighter wing or something.

Think I'll go do something better with my time, like rewatch Macross 7...

[danth]

Man, I could have sworn I've seen images of Zentraedi fighting the Invid. Can't remember if it was in the old Sentinels comics, or Malcontent Uprisings, or Genesis. Or maybe some Kevin Long art from the RPG books. Or maybe I'm conflating things. It's been so long.

But anyway, if the little Invid Scouts can fight Alpha and Beta fighters, they can fight Zentraedi soldiers. The Alpha is only a meter shorter than a Zentraedi anyway. Or just fudge the scales, who cares? It's Robotech. 😁

And as lame as Robotech is, now I'm wanting to read those old Eternity comics again. The art was pretty good for a while. I remember the art took a steep dive eventually -- the Waltrips appeared to just stop caring and really started phoning it in. I must have been about 13 when it happened, but I noticed!

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, jenius said:

This whole back and forth is still nonsense... All of it is changeable, especially when Seto builds arguments around canon original series doctrine.

Granted, the whole line of inquiry here is completely idiotic and I've said as much in several previous posts.

Why is it completely idiotic?  Because I'm actually entertaining the OP's premise of doing a Robotech comic with this specific subject matter.  It's an objectively terrible idea, but to actually give meaningful feedback to their topic instead of just dragging them for posting it I'm asking them the same questions and posing the same concerns they'd face if they were actually pitching the idea.

Remember, the Robotech fandom is INCREDIBLY change-averse and generally apathetic towards anything that isn't "the Macross Saga".  The status quo of the franchise is their sacred cow.  Mess with it, and they'll burn your project down like they did to Robotech 3000, Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles, and Robotech Academy.

If you tried to pitch the idea of a comic about the Zentradi fighting the Invid back when Harmony Gold was actually entertaining the idea of licensed comic tie-ins to the series, you would've been obligated to make your work compliant with the official setting.  You'd be locked into the aforementioned scale issues with the biggest pre-series Invid mecha being not quite waist-high to the average unmounted Zentradi and most being the size of a small yappy dog and unarmed to boot.  How do you make them threatening when the fighting basically looks like this? 

(Spoiler-tagged image is that statue "Angry Baby" from the Vigeland Sculpture Park in Oslo, Norway... tagged thusly for those who don't want to be ambushed by an exposed bronze johnson.)

Spoiler

I can't imagine there's much entertainment value in watching a colossal (literally and figuratively) group of elite soldiers gunning down hordes of unarmed aliens the size of small children.  

If you change the relative scaling, you're going to have to have a clear, believable explanation for why the Invid were so much larger and why they shrank by the time they met the humans... and for the continuity problems it'll cause... and a host of other issues like why the fight is happening at all when the standard Zentradi MO has always been "flatten the planet from orbit and get on with life".  If you can't explain these things away convincingly, the fans'll get pissy and burn your story down with you in it.  Of course, they might do it anyway just for spite.

 

 

Yeah, the whole topic is ridiculous and completely idiotic... but that's what comes from trying to take this kind of fanfic nonsense even slightly seriously.  

[danth]

And speaking of the Sentinels: Malcontent Uprisings, how amazing is this cover?