Is Macross II part of the main timeline?

[George Yamamori]

In-universe technology-wise, it doesn't make sense.

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by George Yamamori

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, George Yamamori said:

In-universe technology-wise, it doesn't make sense.

 

No, Macross II's status has been that of a parallel world story since the mid 90s.

This periodical simply made the same mistake that was made ~12 years ago in Macross Ace.  They didn't even cite the correct years for the OVA's events (2091-2092).

[George Yamamori]

They didn't proofread those articles?

[Seto Kaiba]

12 minutes ago, George Yamamori said:

They didn't proofread those articles?

They probably did, but proofreaders are human too ... they can and do make mistakes or fail to catch mistakes.  Odds are they copied their timeline from Macross Ace and never questioned it.

[George Yamamori]

Which issue of Macross Ace was it?

[Tochiro]

2 hours ago, George Yamamori said:

In-universe technology-wise, it doesn't make sense.

 

In a word, yes.

At the SpeakerPODcast, we confirmed this with Kawamori himself in front of a mini-auditorium full of people (who also heard it) back in 2014.

(And reported on it in our podcast: https://www.decultureshock.com/speakerpodcast-ep-11-part-2-macross-the-museum/ )

In short, its nothing new. He 's maintained since the mid-to-late 90's that ALL entries in the Macross franchise are in-universe fiction, meaning that Macross 2 holds the same status as any other entry - they are all equally non-canonical. This is why I used the term timeline and not canon in the tweet you quoted.

(for details, see here: https://www.decultureshock.com/shoji-kawamori-on-what-is-and-what-is-not-canon/ )

While this policy on canon has been well-known for over half of the franchises history, it wasn't until the last 5 or 6 years that its come up specifically in regards to Macross 2. Following the 2014 talk, I've since heard Kawamori reiterate this policy in 2 separate subsequent talkshows. 

Macross 2 was then included in the timeline at the Tokyo Skytree Bluemoon Showcase exhibit in 2018 before being included again in a published history on Macross music and its history in 2018 as well).

And now the article I tweeted about, the issue is addressed specifically, if briefly. It's noted that at one time its status was debatable, and there was uncertainty whether it was an entry in the timeline or something based on the concept of Macross but in a parallel world. Now, however, its acknowledged as a part of the timeline.

So to answer your question, yes. 🙂

[jvmacross]

So we are potentially a few more Macross series away from catching up to the events of Macross II....

I suppose they can jump foward past 2092, simply ignore the events of MII and start up with a new Macross series, but how would you explain the lack of "fold crystals" in MII if it remains in the same "timeline"?

Maybe they will retcon it and say that in-universe producers of the "MII mini-series" released it as part of a "What-if" show....LOL

 

[Gerli]

So yes, but no and also yes.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, George Yamamori said:

Which issue of Macross Ace was it?

Macross Ace #1, pages 6-7.

Basically, the confusion here is a matter of imprecise terms being used.

There was, for a time, a persistent and baseless bit of fanon going around that claimed that Macross II: Lovers Again was not considered a legitimate Macross title because it had the official status of a Parallel World story.  It was spread with malicious intent on these boards by certain fans to troll the fans of Macross II.  Kawamori, as noted above, publicly refuted that particular claim on multiple occasions, but there was never actually any evidence behind that claim to begin with.  Official publications were only too happy to tip the hat to Macross II and even its two tie-in/prequel games even though it was a Parallel World story.

So... where the imprecise terms come into this is that Macross II: Lovers Again is an official Macross title and part of the broad strokes Macross setting/franchise, but at the same time it's still officially a Parallel World story with its own alternate history that isn't in continuity with the Macross titles that came after it.  Kawamori's attitude that each Macross is its own stand-alone story makes trying to explain it problematic since he doesn't regard continuity as existing at all.  2090's still objectively wrong in any sense, though... the OVA's official materials give the year as 2092, though Macross Chronicle listed it as 2091.

[Seto Kaiba]

25 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

I suppose they can jump foward past 2092, simply ignore the events of MII and start up with a new Macross series, but how would you explain the lack of "fold crystals" in MII if it remains in the same "timeline"?

's kind of a non-issue on many levels.  The "fold crystals" just attached a new name to something that'd already been present in the technical setting for a long time as the heart of the Gravity and Inertia Controller that makes the artificial gravity used in thermonuclear reactors.  

 

25 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Maybe they will retcon it and say that in-universe producers of the "MII mini-series" released it as part of a "What-if" show....LOL

You could say they might've already done... the Minmay Attack girl appears in Macross 7, along with much of Macross II's soundtrack.

[Gerli]

Stellar Singer=Emulators

So easy...

 

[George Yamamori]

After Plus/7/Frontier/Delta, Macross II tech feels like a huge regression.

[Gerli]

26 minutes ago, George Yamamori said:

After Plus/7/Frontier/Delta, Macross II tech feels like a huge regression.

Budget cuts...?

[Seto Kaiba]

31 minutes ago, George Yamamori said:

After Plus/7/Frontier/Delta, Macross II tech feels like a huge regression.

Yeah, Macross II had a completely different concept for the future of VFs that was more in line with the Gundam franchise, focusing more on weaponry than speed/thrust.  The VF-2SS is only about on par with the VF-11 flight performance-wise, but laser weapons were replaced with particle beam guns, the OTM-improved rotary cannons with (true) railguns, the use of bits and funnels, etc.

 

(Though in the OVA it's noted quite often that the military has become complacent thanks to the effectiveness of.the Minmay Attack.)

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah, Macross II had a completely different concept for the future of VFs that was more in line with the Gundam franchise, focusing more on weaponry than speed/thrust.  The VF-2SS is only about on par with the VF-11 flight performance-wise, but laser weapons were replaced with particle beam guns, the OTM-improved rotary cannons with (true) railguns, the use of bits and funnels, etc.

 

(Though in the OVA it's noted quite often that the military has become complacent thanks to the effectiveness of.the Minmay Attack.)

Complacency often breeds stagnation. Just ask HG

[GabrielV]

On 9/25/2021 at 11:02 AM, George Yamamori said:

After Plus/7/Frontier/Delta, Macross II tech feels like a huge regression.

Maybe in some ways.  But in terms of the film, the VF-2s do some things that only the cutting edge Ghosts can do in the 2040 timeframe, and stuff that isn't done by human piloted variables until we see Brera and his cyber modified self with mindlink controlled fighter.  

 

[Mommar]

On 9/25/2021 at 9:11 AM, jvmacross said:

So we are potentially a few more Macross series away from catching up to the events of Macross II....

I suppose they can jump foward past 2092, simply ignore the events of MII and start up with a new Macross series, but how would you explain the lack of "fold crystals" in MII if it remains in the same "timeline"?

Maybe they will retcon it and say that in-universe producers of the "MII mini-series" released it as part of a "What-if" show....LOL

 

They don't need to jump past anything.  It doesn't have to be an event that occurred in universe.  The "event" itself could be just like the release of The Matrix in our world.  The Matrix didn't actually have to happen in reality for it to exist as something to watch.

[jvmacross]

7 minutes ago, Mommar said:

...

Yeah...all of the series are potentially just dramatizations...we get it....my suggestion was for an in-universe "What-if" show when it came to MII...

 

[Bolt]

Imagine future Macross setting up for M2.. it could happen !

[Keith]

The simple solution would be a colony fleet that's gotten cut-off from the Galaxy Network & hypnotized by an A.I. to believe they're on Earth.

At this point coming across another PC influenced species that could become the Marduk is super probable. Hell, Windermere was pretty damn close.

[pengbuzz]

Who says it has to be Earth (or reference Earth) at all? Maybe a fleet that built replicas of Earth monuments as part of their culture, and had a Macross class ship in their fleet?

[JB0]

2 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Who says it has to be Earth (or reference Earth) at all? Maybe a fleet that built replicas of Earth monuments as part of their culture, and had a Macross class ship in their fleet?

I am now imagining Macross II as a sequel to G Gundam, and you can't stop me!

[Zinjo]

On 10/15/2021 at 5:01 PM, pengbuzz said:

Who says it has to be Earth (or reference Earth) at all? Maybe a fleet that built replicas of Earth monuments as part of their culture, and had a Macross class ship in their fleet?

In my fantasy re-edit of M2 to shoehorn it into the current continuity, M2 takes place in a system remarkably similar to our solar system, but is surrounded by dense fold faults.  The only ships capable of traversing the faults are old school Zentradi cap ships with the original fold quartz still in their engines.  Unfortunately, they are in very short supply there.  Retrofitted ships and Earth built ships use fold carbon.  This "downgrade" made it possible to make fold jumps in the shipping lanes, but as was discovered in the later part of the 2050's not so much through fold faults.

Thus the "lost colony" was cut off from the galaxy network and had to rely on existing tech and their own ingenuity to defend themselves from rogue Zentradi fleets who were able to travers the briar patch surrounding their system.  Then the Mardook arrived and all hell broke loose. 

In my fantasy edit, the Mardook are SA microns who woke from their PD mind control and chose to use mind control on their Zentradi soldiers to keep them from turning on their commanders.  Over time the arrogance of the PC commanders turned into a cult that believed their culture was superior to all others and went on to conquer the systems they encountered.   Their tech is superior to the Zentradi and the humans because they have direct access PC technology and knowledge. 

Allusions to a potential link between the two continuities came in Delta, when Mikumo transformed into the Star Singer and her body had curiously familiar markings, similar to Ishtar and the other emulators in Mac2.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Zinjo

[Bolt]

Interesting....🤔

[Keith]

16 hours ago, Zinjo said:

In my fantasy re-edit of M2 to shoehorn it into the current continuity, M2 takes place in a system remarkably similar to our solar system, but is surrounded by dense fold faults.  The only ships capable of traversing the faults are old school Zentradi cap ships with the original fold quartz still in their engines.  Unfortunately, they are in very short supply there.  Retrofitted ships and Earth built ships use fold carbon.  This "downgrade" made it possible to make fold jumps in the shipping lanes, but as was discovered in the later part of the 2050's not so much through fold faults.

Thus the "lost colony" was cut off from the galaxy network and had to rely on existing tech and their own ingenuity to defend themselves from rogue Zentradi fleets who were able to travers the briar patch surrounding their system.  Then the Mardook arrived and all hell broke loose. 

In my fantasy edit, the Mardook are SA microns who woke from their PD mind control and chose to use mind control on their Zentradi soldiers to keep them from turning on their commanders.  Over time the arrogance of the PC commanders turned into a cult that believed their culture was superior to all others and went on to conquer the systems they encountered.   Their tech is superior to the Zentradi and the humans because they have direct access PC technology and knowledge. 

Allusions to a potential link between the two continuities came in Delta, when Mikumo transformed into the Star Singer and her body had curiously familiar markings, similar to Ishtar and the other emulators in Mac2.

Mine came at the end of Frontier when I mistakenly read "Macross 11" fleet as "Macross II Fleet."