Transformers: Rise of the Beasts

[Old_Nash]

And we have plot of the new TF movie

https://www.polygon.com/movies/22545693/transformers-rise-of-the-beasts-beast-wars-revealed

And no, not of Beastformers

[Thom]

Just keep the feel and look of Bumblebee, which was like a love letter to the original series, and let's start steering way clear of the BaycrapMovies. If we never tie back into those 'movies' then I will be a happy guy!

[Kanedas Bike]

Interesting choices...loved Beast Wars when it was on TV so I'm excited to see them make the leap to the big screen.

If they give Bee his voice back that'd be an automatic win in my book 

-b.

[mikeszekely]

I mean, I'll definitely see it.  Most likely in theaters.  I'll almost definitely buy the Blu-ray and half the toys.  Because Transformers.

That said, while Bumblebee and the '07 movie were pretty good, the franchise doesn't have a great record as a whole, so it's hard to really get excited for it.

[JB0]

I'm hoping Hasbro's learned to keep a leash handy so they maintain some creative oversight.

[kalvasflam]

would it be possible to have no humans?  cause they SUCK.

[M'Kyuun]

Dismayed that it's still being tied to the abysmal Bayverse, at least by timeline, although I suspect it'll share more ties, just as Bumblebee did. I was hoping that the new spate of films would break entirely from Bayverse to establish their own look and feel, but I get the sense that Hasbro's playing it safe by keeping everything live action anchored by some degree to the Bay films. 

For the record, I liked Bumblebee; it's the only live action TF movie that I like, that I even consider watchable, but it's not without its flaws, and ultimately, it still shares a lot of aesthetics with Bayverse, especially Bee's face. But it was a step in the right direction so far as taking more care to treat the Transformer characters as such rather than just one dimensional props.  As a Beast Wars fan, I'm quite wary as to how they're going to take these characters that existed in a time period long before modern humans and only had interactions amongst themselves, mostly, and put them in a modern day setting. Are they going to be much smaller so that they needn't mass shift when transforming? What will be the purpose for their having taken on beast modes, especially if said modes aren't organic in nature, with the purpose of protecting them from some environmental factor that can harm them otherwise?  Having them be obviously robotic creatures appeals to me, but it beggars the question of why when there's no apparent reason to do so, and it doesn't exactly work as a disguise.  However, they may just recycle the reasoning for the Dinobots' construction by the Autobots in the toon as a way to build up their ranks with stronger warriors against the Decepticon threat. I could buy that, but I would hope there'd be a little deeper reasoning than just that. Anyway, I'm finding it difficult to be excited about this, especially when they're already linking it to Bayverse.   

[TangledThorns]

The first live action film was fine but the sequels kept getting derpier. Bumblebee was good but don't have a lot of faith in the new films.

[Thom]

The first one was a good start. But yes, they just went downhill harder and faster, with character 'development' done in the form of KABLAM and KABLEWEY and the plots basically being just how big can the next explosion be, and who is the next supermodel they could put in as an 'actress?' They catered to the lowest common denominator of 'flash and bang,' and were thus complete waste's of time. Until Bumblebee. They got Bay out of everything but gathering money for the project, put Knight in who clearly has a love of Transformers and had a writer that actually wrote a movie with heart in it. And an actress who could actually work with the heart in the script! Plus, the Transformers looked like Transformers! For that, Bumblebee ranks second of all the Transformers movies for me, and that is including the 1986 Transformers the Movie. The first Bay film is a distant, distant third. You can see it there, in the distance, if you squint. That tiny dot so far out there,  just barely discernible from the haze of the horizon...

I do wish Knight was staying behind the wheel for this one, as I know very little of Steven Cable Jr. The only movie I know he directed was Creed II, and I never watched it. And Joby Harold doesn't seem to have many writing credits. I liked King Author, Legend of the Sword, but the only others I'd be interested in are Kenobi, which is in production, and this movie. Never saw Army of the Dead or Awake, his other writing credits.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Thom

[M'Kyuun]

On 6/24/2021 at 6:39 AM, Thom said:

The first one was a good start. But yes, they just went downhill harder and faster, with character 'development' done in the form of KABLAM and KABLEWEY and the plots basically being just how big can the next explosion be, and who is the next supermodel they could put in as an 'actress?' They catered to the lowest common denominator of 'flash and bang,' and were thus complete waste's of time. Until Bumblebee. They got Bay out of everything but gathering money for the project, put Knight in who clearly has a love of Transformers and had a writer that actually wrote a movie with heart in it. And an actress who could actually work with the heart in the script! Plus, the Transformers looked like Transformers! For that, Bumblebee ranks second of all the Transformers movies for me, and that is including the 1986 Transformers the Movie. The first Bay film is a distant, distant third. You can see it there, in the distance, if you squint. That tiny dot so far out there,  just barely discernible from the haze of the horizon...

I do wish Knight was staying behind the wheel for this one, as I know very little of Steven Cable Jr. The only movie I know he directed was Creed II, and I never watched it. And Joby Harold doesn't seem to have many writing credits. I liked King Author, Legend of the Sword, but the only others I'd be interested in are Kenobi, which is in production, and this movie. Never saw Army of the Dead or Awake, his other writing credits.

None of the Bay films make it on my 'good' list-  foreign dog crap on my lawn has more value, as it at least serves a nutritional factor for the grass. Bay's Transformers films are empty spectacle devoid of passion or knowledge of the subject matter, whose only positive is that they make the featured cars look good. Bay started out as a commercial director, and that's how scenes of cars and women feel- like they're products to be salivated over. I continue to question his selection to direct movies based on a franchise for which he had absolutely no association. It certainly shows.

I wish they'd tapped Travis Knight from the beginning, as I think the trajectory and content of the films would have been radically different, and based on Bumblebee, and the juggling he had to do between making it a prequel and a stand-alone as the producers waffled, far, far better than any of the soulless Bay films. As it stands, it's both prequal and semi-stand-alone, as the Bayverse elements are unfortunately inescapable. I fear the same will happen with Rise of the Beasts, as Hasbro seems reluctant to let go, and Bumblebee's success emboldened them (IMHO, the Bee Movie was successful not b/c of it's Baylike qualities, but for stuff that eschews everything 'Bay' like the Cybertronian scenes and the heart put into it by the actors/writers and director). Not sure if Hasbro sees it that way, but as long as they can milk the Bayformer teat, they're gonna try to drain it dry.  More's the pity for those of us who've been in it since 1984 and love the true premise and characters that started the whole thing.

As an aside, I have seen Awake on Netflix, and it was a decent sci-fi pandemic film where people lose the ability to sleep, with very rare exceptions, and the resulting mental decline creates havoc and terror as only humans are capable. Good performance by Gina Rodriguez as a mom trying to keep her kids safe.

Spoiler

Big surprise- Gina's young daughter is one of only two people shown in the film who can sleep, and scientists want to study her to see what makes her different before they and everyone else go completely off the rails and die.

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by M'Kyuun

[Thom]

16 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

...

  Reveal hidden contents

Big surprise- Gina's young daughter is one of only two people shown in the film who can sleep, and scientists want to study her to see what makes her different before they and everyone else go completely off the rails and die.

 

Spoiler

Odd, as we have drugs aplenty that could knock people right out. I'd see a big win for BigPharma!

 

[M'Kyuun]

4 hours ago, Thom said:

  Hide contents

Odd, as we have drugs aplenty that could knock people right out. I'd see a big win for BigPharma!

 

Spoiler

Straying a bit OT, but IIRC, sleeping drugs had little to no effect on the vast majority of people due to a change in the brain that prevents sleep, courtesy of a global event that took out all electrical devices, and apparently effected the brain's wiring in people and chimps.  Sci-fi- just roll with it. People who have died and been revived, for some unspecified reason, are immune. The movie hasn't received very good reviews, but I liked the premise. It's a fairly slow-paced film, and you have to be willing to swallow the main premise without too much questioning. I was able to do that for 96 minutes and enjoy it for what it was. The film kinda feels like an overlong episode of Twilight Zone.

 

[Thom]

10 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

  Hide contents

Straying a bit OT, but IIRC, sleeping drugs had little to no effect on the vast majority of people due to a change in the brain that prevents sleep, courtesy of a global event that took out all electrical devices, and apparently effected the brain's wiring in people and chimps.  Sci-fi- just roll with it. People who have died and been revived, for some unspecified reason, are immune. The movie hasn't received very good reviews, but I liked the premise. It's a fairly slow-paced film, and you have to be willing to swallow the main premise without too much questioning. I was able to do that for 96 minutes and enjoy it for what it was. The film kinda feels like an overlong episode of Twilight Zone.

 

Alright cool. Kind of like the new Planet of the Apes, where I'm wondering how the apes take over, and they tie in the drug that made them intelligent with a virus. 

[M'Kyuun]

Something like that, but more along the lines of a solar flare for Awake, IIRC.

Back OT, I'm hoping they'll reveal the art direction for the beasties in the new movie, as that'll give us a hint as to how the toys may turn out. My guess is they'll follow a similar design path as Beast Machines with streamlined, techno-organic beast modes that inform the bot modes. If they went a more Zoids-like look with the beast modes, I'd dig it from a toy perspective, as I love the Zoids aesthetic, but it's not right for a Beast Wars homage. More worrying, however, is how they write and present these characters, as Beast Wars was full of cheeky humor that worked great for the cartoon, but might not translate to live action, and really, that was a huge part of the show's charm.  My earned cynicism with Hollywood's homages and their constant need to stray from what made the original subject great makes me wary of this film. Fortunately, I'll always have BW and BM on DVD to assuage my sorrow and disappointment.

Personally, if I had to introduce these characters into a modern world already populated by Cybertronians who have taken on alt modes resembling human machines, I'd approach it in a similar manner as to how the Insecticons were introduced in the G1 toon, living for millennia apart from humans, having taken on forms based on the wildlife and adapting to feed on organic materials. Having had only their small group for company for such a vast period of time, they'd be socially awkward around these younger Cybertronians who've since arrived on Earth, who don't use organic materials for fuel, and who have forged a relationship with the indigenous population. There's a lot of room for character development in a setup such as this, and to see the modern world through the eyes of these 'old souls' who've lived in harmony with nature for untold centuries since the dawn of humanity, who they assiduously avoided, would offer a different perspective that we haven't seen since the old Beast Wars toon.

Edited June 25, 2021 by M'Kyuun

[Dobber]

I wonder if they’ll reuse the nano skin thing they used for the college “girl” in the second Bayformers movie. I really hope not, but that would be the only way to have a realistically disguised robot as an organic being.

Chris

[Thom]

1 hour ago, Dobber said:

I wonder if they’ll reuse the nano skin thing they used for the college “girl” in the second Bayformers movie. I really hope not, but that would be the only way to have a realistically disguised robot as an organic being.

Chris

They used that, and I was left wondering why they didn't do that and imitate every human they needed to in order to get what they wanted?

I hope they don't use it, as it is far less Transformers and just a rip-off of Terminator.

[Old_Nash]

1 hour ago, Dobber said:

I wonder if they’ll reuse the nano skin thing they used for the college “girl” in the second Bayformers movie. I really hope not, but that would be the only way to have a realistically disguised robot as an organic being.

Chris

The return of Pretenders XD

[M'Kyuun]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

They used that, and I was left wondering why they didn't do that and imitate every human they needed to in order to get what they wanted?

I hope they don't use it, as it is far less Transformers and just a rip-off of Terminator.

This. As long as they become anything else but people, I'm happy. The Pretenders was a dumb idea dreamt up by Hasbro b/c they'd parted ways with Takara, and at the time, couldn't figure out how to make a toy transform the way their Japanese counterparts could. But they could figure out how to put a robot in a gummy plastic shell. Let's just stick to non-human alt modes, otherwise, as Thom says, it's just Terminator.

I don't recall their ever saying exactly how the BW characters were able to synthesize the necessary organics to achieve their beast modes, or at least the organic coatings that somehow merge when they transform. It was pure sci-fi magic, and when I watched it, I never felt I needed a plausible explanation.  Just like I don't need to know how a tractor beam works, FTL engines, lightsabers, or the transporters in Star Trek.  They just do, and I can accept it in the context of sci-fi, esp if the story around said sci-fi gadgets and tropes is a good one.

[JB0]

8 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

The Pretenders was a dumb idea dreamt up by Hasbro b/c they'd parted ways with Takara, and at the time, couldn't figure out how to make a toy transform the way their Japanese counterparts could. But they could figure out how to put a robot in a gummy plastic shell.

Eh? Japan seemed far more gung-ho about the Pretenders than the US, having given them an actual cartoon and everything. And the shells weren't gummy(except for that one Decepticon combiner).

 

It really seems to me like Takara was doing weird things and Hasbro was along for the ride. Same thing that created headmasters, powermasters, targetmasters, and micromasters.

[Dobber]

12 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

This. As long as they become anything else but people, I'm happy. The Pretenders was a dumb idea dreamt up by Hasbro b/c they'd parted ways with Takara, and at the time, couldn't figure out how to make a toy transform the way their Japanese counterparts could. But they could figure out how to put a robot in a gummy plastic shell. Let's just stick to non-human alt modes, otherwise, as Thom says, it's just Terminator.

I don't recall their ever saying exactly how the BW characters were able to synthesize the necessary organics to achieve their beast modes, or at least the organic coatings that somehow merge when they transform. It was pure sci-fi magic, and when I watched it, I never felt I needed a plausible explanation.  Just like I don't need to know how a tractor beam works, FTL engines, lightsabers, or the transporters in Star Trek.  They just do, and I can accept it in the context of sci-fi, esp if the story around said sci-fi gadgets and tropes is a good one.

Ok not sure if you all are missing it, or what, but I did say “I really hope not” nor was I implying having more Human terminator things, just wondering if they would use the same  “cheat” method of making a robot disguise itself as a biological being. 
 

Chris

Edited June 25, 2021 by Dobber

[Thom]

2 hours ago, Dobber said:

Ok not sure if you all are missing it, or what, but I did say “I really hope not” nor was I implying having more Human terminator things, just wondering if they would use the same  “cheat” method of making a robot disguise itself as a biological being. 
 

Chris

There seams very little way to do it other than having some kind of realistic covering, and as long as we have don't have any more human-form ones I'm fine with it. Or, maybe they could do a form of Star Trek holodeck tech, with forcefields and holograms making them look like they are actual living animals.

Actually, I wish they weren't doing Beast Wars, at all. Wouldn't be my first choice.

[Dobber]

40 minutes ago, Thom said:

There seams very little way to do it other than having some kind of realistic covering, and as long as we have don't have any more human-form ones I'm fine with it. Or, maybe they could do a form of Star Trek holodeck tech, with forcefields and holograms making them look like they are actual living animals.

Actually, I wish they weren't doing Beast Wars, at all. Wouldn't be my first choice.

Honestly feel the same. It works in animation or in an all animal setting as animals are confused by decoys and such. But people, nah, not fooling us. So if the do use the “nano-skin” thing or whatever, then how will toys ever be able to replicate it for transformations or will the just go for movie ravage and Grimlock metal appearance. Though to be fair both of those where already robotic representations of animals and not disguised animals. I dunno.

Chris

[Scyla]

Everything I heard about this movie reminds me of the Bay movies. And not in a good way.
I thought after Bumblebee we had the chance of getting more decent Transformers movies but apparently this is not the case. 😶

[M'Kyuun]

Well, from Hasbro's POV, the Bay films made them truckloads of money, likely more than they've ever seen from any other property, and they know there are still fans, so from a business stance I can understand their reluctance to move away from it entirely. Instead, I think it'll be a far more gradual distancing as the fandom dies down, and we'll get more stuff like Bumblebee, where we see slight changes to the aesthetic to bring the characters closer to G1, in that particular case. But the transformations will likely still be CG artists' inventions with no mechanical sense to them whatsoever, not to mention a different transformation every time for the same character. How they accomplish the beast modes for the new film, or even how they're approaching the animal aesthetic, remains to be seen. Since they hired the same effects people who worked on the live-action Lion King, I think it's fairly safe to assume that the beast characters will look like natural animals, otherwise, what's the point?

I make no bones about how much I absolutely abhor the Bay films. In my estimation, Bay should have been dropped from consideration the moment he told the producers he had no background with Transformers. I think the films prove that point succinctly. Moreover his brand of humor wasn't a good fit either, IMHO. However, I'm aware that, sadly, the Bay films are the G1 for kids born in the late 90's onward, so their nostalgia is going to be stronger for those films than any other continuity in the franchise. My hope is that those kids grow up and discover what came before, and even if they'll never develop the same attachment that Geewunners have, they'll recognize things in those old stories that ring truer than anything that Bay did. As for the present, and this beast-centric film, I can only hope that the director is a huge Beast Wars fan, and that at least some of the heart and humor of that show makes it into the film. Garry Chalk, Scott McNeil, and David Kaye reprising their roles would be a huge boon to the film, too. Yeeesss.

[Thom]

9 hours ago, Scyla said:

Everything I heard about this movie reminds me of the Bay movies. And not in a good way.
I thought after Bumblebee we had the chance of getting more decent Transformers movies but apparently this is not the case. 😶

Sounds like the Beast Transformers will be add-ons to the ones from Bumblebee, and it won't be them alone, so that's good. Of course, with them making prequels with new characters added, I start to wonder where they were in the Bay-movies? But then I come to my senses and realize that Bay didn't care at all, as he just kept tossing in new Autobots willy-nilly, the more insulting the better. To better suit his childish humor, I'm sure.

But I'm still hoping they'll end up tossing the Bay movies aside, considering that at the end of Bumblebee, Optimus and other Autobots were already arriving by the end.

[M'Kyuun]

7 hours ago, Thom said:

Sounds like the Beast Transformers will be add-ons to the ones from Bumblebee, and it won't be them alone, so that's good. Of course, with them making prequels with new characters added, I start to wonder where they were in the Bay-movies? But then I come to my senses and realize that Bay didn't care at all, as he just kept tossing in new Autobots willy-nilly, the more insulting the better. To better suit his childish humor, I'm sure.

But I'm still hoping they'll end up tossing the Bay movies aside, considering that at the end of Bumblebee, Optimus and other Autobots were already arriving by the end.

To be fair, I don't think Bay is solely responsible for what characters did and didn't appear in his films, as I highly doubt he knew any of the characters well enough to pick and choose. Rather, I'm inclined to think that task fell on the scriptwriters' shoulders, and Bay worked loosely off the scripts, interjecting his own special brand of lewd and puerile humor, frenetic shooting style, lack of cohesive storytelling, and obdurate indifference to what made Transformers good in the first place.

While the Bay films continue to have their defenders, I'm heartened to see any number of younger folks on Twitter and TF forums who've discovered and enjoy G1, some esteeming it better than the Bay films. There's hope yet for the future. 

[JB0]

Here's a bold proposal:
Bumblebee is actually a remake of the first half of Bayformers 1. The part that ends when Bumblebee introduces the humans to the rest of the autobots.

The key differences are that the scriptwriter actually knows something about Transformers, the director isn't in love with explosions and potty humor and jumpcuts, and the characters are all actual PEOPLE with motivations, story arcs, and growth(what a novel idea!). But everyone involved fits into pretty much the exact same niche at the start, with Shatter and Dropkick splitting Barricade's role to give the bad guys a reason to have lines.

 

 

And then if we luck out, Beast Wars gets to be a remake of the second half, and we can all pretend Bayformers never happened.

[Thom]

19 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Here's a bold proposal:
Bumblebee is actually a remake of the first half of Bayformers 1. The part that ends when Bumblebee introduces the humans to the rest of the autobots.

The key differences are that the scriptwriter actually knows something about Transformers, the director isn't in love with explosions and potty humor and jumpcuts, and the characters are all actual PEOPLE with motivations, story arcs, and growth(what a novel idea!). But everyone involved fits into pretty much the exact same niche at the start, with Shatter and Dropkick splitting Barricade's role to give the bad guys a reason to have lines.

 

 

And then if we luck out, Beast Wars gets to be a remake of the second half, and we can all pretend Bayformers never happened.

I'd be good with that!

@M'Kyuun And you are correct. His being the big name, perhaps I am lumping too much on him for that.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Thom

[M'Kyuun]

3 hours ago, JB0 said:

Here's a bold proposal:
Bumblebee is actually a remake of the first half of Bayformers 1. The part that ends when Bumblebee introduces the humans to the rest of the autobots.

The key differences are that the scriptwriter actually knows something about Transformers, the director isn't in love with explosions and potty humor and jumpcuts, and the characters are all actual PEOPLE with motivations, story arcs, and growth(what a novel idea!). But everyone involved fits into pretty much the exact same niche at the start, with Shatter and Dropkick splitting Barricade's role to give the bad guys a reason to have lines.

 

 

And then if we luck out, Beast Wars gets to be a remake of the second half, and we can all pretend Bayformers never happened.

Except I have the toys and bad memories, like some form of entertainment PTSD, to remind me otherwise. Moreover, I have a hard time seeing the Bumblebee Movie as anything other than a prequel to the '07 film, albeit with a few nods to G1 courtesy of Travis Knight. Otherwise, the look of the Cybertronians still leans well into the Bay aesthetic, Bee still has his stupid mute-speaking through the radio schtick, he's treated more like a dog than an intelligent being on par with Charlie with his 'humorous' antics despite being shown as a competent warrior in the opening scene, and the waffling comments by Lorenzo Di Bonaventura concerning whether it was stand-alone or prequel. It was obviously intended to be a straight-up prequel, but with The Last Knight performing poorly, Knight was able to make some changes, like the opening Cybertronian scene, to separate it a little from bayformers. But too much of the Bayformers influence remains to erase the original intention of the film.  The redeeming quality of the movie is that it has heart, you feel for these characters, the Cybertronians are treated as characters rather than props, and it has a coherent story that even a kid can follow from start to finish. in short, it proved that the G1 look could work for the eponymous characters, it doesn't have to be convoluted to tell a good story, and if you let someone who's a Transformers fan direct, the film will be the better for it.

[Thom]

Except that no Bayformers movie will ever grace my DVD shelf - again. That mistake was made once and then rectified. 😉 If they do end up tying this back into the Bayverse then I'll enjoy Bumblebee and maybe TRotB before then, and lament that the creators had not taken this chance to 'alter' history from that absolute mess. The designs are more than different enough from his movies anyway and they basically did everything in Bumblebee that they would need to move on without the previous ones.

[Scyla]

So according to TFW2005 Ron Perlman will be voicing Optimus Primal: https://news.tfw2005.com/2021/06/28/ron-perlman-to-voice-optimus-primal-in-transformers-rise-of-the-beasts-436382

This seems to be another hint that this will be a similar movie to the Michael Bay ones. Remember, when John Goodman voiced Hound? 😑

[M'Kyuun]

I like Ron Perlman and all, but his delivery as opposed to Garry's are very different, and I fear something is certainly lost there.  

[mikeszekely]

I don't get it.  They were smart enough to get Peter Cullen to do Optimus, and eventually Frank Welker for Megatron.  Why couldn't they give the role to Gary Chalk?  Or do they somehow believe that Perlman's portrayal of Primal in the Machinima Power of the Primes was more iconic than Beast Wars?

[M'Kyuun]

If that's what they truly think, well no.  Garry and David Kaye still have a friendly sparring between their BW alter egos at Christmas every year, so in the minds of fans, they still have the spark, pun intended, that made those characters, and their performances, iconic and beloved by fans.  I didn't really follow the Michinima series, so I never even saw the eps with Primal. No disrespect to Ron Perlman,  but as Peter Cullen is Optimus Prime, so Garry Chalk is Optimus Primal, and though other people may take on the mantels with time, those guys made the characters who they are, and I'll always feel that way. Likewise Frank Welker and David Kaye for their G1 and BW Megatron performances respectively. Special mention to the late Chris Latta for creating Starscream and Cobra Commander- oft imitated, but never duplicated.

[Thom]

Sad to hear that Cullen won't be doing Optimus anymore. Keeping him as Optimus was one of the best things to come out of the Bayformers. Did he retire?

As to Perlman, how does he sound as Optimus?