Bigwest will do a global release of the MACROSS series... Games and Toys too!

[ScrambledValkyrie]

Original language with subs is totally cool with me. Part of the character of the show is the sound of the original actor's voices. With other shows, I prefer to listen to the Japanese and have gotten used to reading subs. I don't think I've ever heard a dub that sounds as good and convincing as the original in terms of acting. And that's dialog only.  While Mari Ijima and some of the Walkure girls pulled it off, voice actors are often not singers, so that's additional talent you have to hire. I wouldn't want the release of these shows to become held back by obstacles of cost or time.  

[Keith]

14 hours ago, Zethus said:

Well, only 1992's Macross II to the latest Macross Delta Movie 

There's a lot there though.

[Master Dex]

4 minutes ago, Keith said:

There's a lot there though.

I know, their reaction is like saying "You aced the test yeah but it's only a 95/100".

[Zethus]

I would think that either Sentai Filmworks, Viz Media or Nozomi Entertainment would license them

[Einherjar]

9 hours ago, Master Dex said:

I know, their reaction is like saying "You aced the test yeah but it's only a 95/100".

That 5% and inadvertently opening Pandora’s Box won’t save Robotech or Tommy Yune’s career at this point.  

[Master Dex]

49 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

That 5% and inadvertently opening Pandora’s Box won’t save Robotech or Tommy Yune’s career at this point.  

I agree but I'm not about to discount the quality of the rest just cause it's not Minmay music. I love SDFM and DYRL too but aside from a couple songs the majority of Macross music I like is from later stuff. So I'm happy.

[blackconvoy_D01]

Why can't I purchase the Macross songs now available on Amazon streaming as digital music?

[Sanity is Optional]

29 minutes ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Why can't I purchase the Macross songs now available on Amazon streaming as digital music?

Which ones are you spraying to buy? SDFM and DYRL aren’t worldwide yet.

[twich]

Maybe license is for stream only. 
Twich

[blackconvoy_D01]

9 hours ago, twich said:

Maybe license is for stream only. 
Twich

Gotcha

9 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Which ones are you spraying to buy? SDFM and DYRL aren’t worldwide yet.

Frontier, 7 and Macross II via Amazon. I'm still trying to find Delta songs I like.

Edited November 26, 2021 by blackconvoy_D01

[isamu]

I haven't been keeping up with the news, but is there any indication that the issues surrounding SDFM and DYRL are closer to being resolved so we can get a worldwide release? Or is HG making things difficult?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, isamu said:

I haven't been keeping up with the news, but is there any indication that the issues surrounding SDFM and DYRL are closer to being resolved so we can get a worldwide release? Or is HG making things difficult?

Nothing's been said about Super Dimension Fortress Macross or Do You Remember Love? yet, AFAIK.

I'd assume any news about Super Dimension Fortress Macross would have to come at HG's discretion since they still hold the distribution rights in their partnership with Big West.  The rights to DYRL? are a bit muddled, as I understand it, though through no real fault of Harmony Gold's as it's supposedly confusion originating with whoever they originally gave the international rights to.

[azrael]

1 hour ago, isamu said:

I haven't been keeping up with the news, but is there any indication that the issues surrounding SDFM and DYRL are closer to being resolved so we can get a worldwide release? Or is HG making things difficult?

No. There is no issue for SDFM and DYRL. HG owns the distribution rights for those. Period. Any perceived idea that there is a problem with those is fan whining. HG isn't making anything difficult. They are just staying in their lane. DYRL's video distribution rights are just lost to whoever has that, which not even HG has a real answer to.

[Keith]

On 11/25/2021 at 8:33 PM, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Why can't I purchase the Macross songs now available on Amazon streaming as digital music?

It's some type of contract nonsense. In general, iTunes has always had better international licensing of digital music. Solution, buy them on iTunes & dig through the settings to set it up to convert downloads to MP3.

[jvmacross]

Not sure if this is true....I have not seen any video of the Robotech panel at SDCC 2023, so who knows...but if it is true...then any hopes of getting a US/World release of DYRL is not looking good for the immediate future....

My hope is that the rights for an international release of DYRL can at some point be undisputedly wrested away from HG once and for all...I need to see DYRL at my local AMC IMAX now! 

 

[JB0]

35 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Not sure if this is true....I have not seen any video of the Robotech panel at SDCC 2023, so who knows...but if it is true...then any hopes of getting a US/World release of DYRL is not looking good for the immediate future....

My hope is that the rights for an international release of DYRL can at some point be undisputedly wrested away from HG once and for all...I need to see DYRL at my local AMC IMAX now! 

 

What I've heard is the slide in question is being presented out of context, and in context it is actually a prohibition on HG, not everyone else. They're saying that HG is prohibited from using DYRL or a hypothetical future sequel in Robotech.

 

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, JB0 said:

What I've heard is the slide in question is being presented out of context, and in context it is actually a prohibition on HG, not everyone else. They're saying that HG is prohibited from using DYRL or a hypothetical future sequel in Robotech.

 

If so, then I'd really wish BW would stop the BS and start releasing DYRL stuff outside of Japan...but for whatever reason they continue to shy away from that...it's like there is still an unwritten rule about the release and merch for that film....

Still, that was the first time I ever saw in writing, from the HG/Robotech side of things, specifically stating that SDFM sequels, including DYRL, were off limits to HG/Robotech....so at least it would seem that there is no more ambiguity in terms of merch releases?  Might explain why the latest crop of "HG" licensed merch (such as the KC VF-1 line) no longer portrays the DYRL schemes and DYRL characters like they did before?

[JB0]

29 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Might explain why the latest crop of "HG" licensed merch (such as the KC VF-1 line) no longer portrays the DYRL schemes and DYRL characters like they did before?

More likely they no longer need to legitimize their trademark on the Macross name. They do, or did, have a legitimate DYRL merchandise license from Tatsunoko. But they've never had a license to the DYRL animation.

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, JB0 said:

What I've heard is the slide in question is being presented out of context, and in context it is actually a prohibition on HG, not everyone else. They're saying that HG is prohibited from using DYRL or a hypothetical future sequel in Robotech.

They've literally never been able to, so I'm not sure why that would be phrased that way.

Of course, a lot of people seem to have jumped to conclusions without thinking it through and concluded that this somehow means that Macross sequels containing characters or designs that were in the original series are somehow going to still be stonewalled. That's obviously not the case given that we already know that those shows have been licensed and Big West is literally showing episodes of Delta that contain designs from the original series at their panel.

When all the said and done, this is probably just another nothing burger Harmony Gold is misleadingly phrasing in an attempt to seem like they have some kind of control over the situation.

[jvmacross]

If BW could at least assert itself on DYRL, that would be great.  Being able to finally get the film properly screened outside of Japan would be a great win for the fandom, especially old school fans like myself.  I have no expectations for SDFM to ever escape HG's strangle hold , so I have long accepted the status quo on that series.  At the moment, I am not exactly sure why HG went out of their way to single out DYRL as a "sequel" to SDFM, but I am hoping that turns into some positive developments for that film and it's potential release status outside of Japan.

One other thing that is sort of interesting is the upcoming videogame Macross Shooting Insight's inclusion of DYRL VFs, but not SDFM VFs...may be nothing and indeed the DYRL content may be region blocked...but who knows...maybe not?

[JB0]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They've literally never been able to, so I'm not sure why that would be phrased that way.

Because they want to pretend they made concessions and it is thanks solely to their magnanimous heart that anyone can do anything. They used to own the entire franchise outside Japan. We know this because they told us so, and they wouldn't lie to us. But they gave SO MUCH back to Big West just out of courtesy and a desire to get along. 

 

1 hour ago, jvmacross said:

At the moment, I am not exactly sure why HG went out of their way to single out DYRL as a "sequel" to SDFM, but I am hoping that turns into some positive developments for that film and it's potential release status outside of Japan.

I'm assuming people were asserting that as a remake of SDF Macross, it was covered under the SDF license. Waters made muddier by them picking up a merchandise license for DYRL from Tatsunoko.

I personally believe it was so they could put a thin veneer of legitimacy on their Macross trademarks by selling Macross merchandise, and make it look like they actually had the rights they claimed(rather than the rights the japanese courts confirmed Tatsunoko had).

[jenius]

HG's panel was a mess. They only talked about the rights to try dampen hopes the Macross sequel would include legacy characters. They brought three zero to the panel and then spent way more time talking about KitzConcept and their nearly identical products. They never mentioned the companies doing the cyclone or Legioss, just filed it under Toynami. They did a decent job selling the new comic at least. I LOLed when they said the love action was a victim of the strikes... Rrrrrrright 

[SSK]

Harmony Gold's press postings are terribly written as always. It's more likely Big West CAN use the SDFM/DYRL stuff for new sequels IN JAPAN ONLY. They can't export them. That's all. So nothing really new here. As example, we already saw that the SDFM/DYRL stuff from the incoming video game will be available as DLC in Japan only. Now the relevance of making sequels they cannot market outside Japan is another debate.

On the other hand, the 2 years old worldwide agreement is dragging on so long (in addition to only targeting the US in the west) that I can try to understand some of the negative reactions. Big West has to strike hard next week (at least worldwide streaming announcement, in addition to giving release dates of the stuff announced last year in the US), otherwise it will ultimately turn like Harmony Gold's long time meme "The best is yet to come". They no longer have the luxury of hiding behind the "It takes time" excuse if they really want a worldwide take off for Macross.

[snakerbot]

Isn't the distribution license status of DYRL? still unknown?

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, jenius said:

HG's panel was a mess. They only talked about the rights to try dampen hopes the Macross sequel would include legacy characters.

At this point, it's kind of a non-issue... not just because this alleged prohibition probably only applies to the original Haruhiko Mikimoto character designs from SDFM and DYRL? and not the aged-up redesigns from later titles, but because every single character in SDF Macross except Max and Milia's oldest daughter is on the wrong side of retirement age by the time of Absolute Live!!!!!!.

There's 56 years of in-universe time separating the events of SDF Macross's final episode and Macross Delta's second movie.  Komilia, the youngest character in the original series, would be 57.  Max, Milia, and Minmay would be 75.  Bruno J. Global would be 95.  Claudia would be 83, Vanessa 80, Kim 78, and Shammy 77.

At this point, the only way to have those characters be meaningfully involved in... anything... is to go backwards or do a time travel story like they did in Macross 30 and Macross Shooting Insight.  Even Max's appearance in Absolute Live!!!!!! stretches credibility quite a bit as a septuagenarian super-ace.  The VF-1 was 59 years and 4 generations old by the time it appeared in Macross Delta's TV series too.

 

12 hours ago, jenius said:

I LOLed when they said the love action was a victim of the strikes... Rrrrrrright 

They haven't been honest about it since it was announced, why start now?

(Though in all fairness, with the WGA on strike they probably can't get any more bargain basement story treatments to pretend that the project isn't dead on arrival.)

[jenius]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

At this point, it's kind of a non-issue... not just because this alleged prohibition probably only applies to the original Haruhiko Mikimoto character designs from SDFM and DYRL? and not the aged-up redesigns from later titles, but because every single character in SDF Macross except Max and Milia's oldest daughter is on the wrong side of retirement age by the time of Absolute Live!!!!!!.

There's 56 years of in-universe time separating the events of SDF Macross's final episode and Macross Delta's second movie.  Komilia, the youngest character in the original series, would be 57.  Max, Milia, and Minmay would be 75.  Bruno J. Global would be 95.  Claudia would be 83, Vanessa 80, Kim 78, and Shammy 77.

At this point, the only way to have those characters be meaningfully involved in... anything... is to go backwards or do a time travel story like they did in Macross 30 and Macross Shooting Insight.  Even Max's appearance in Absolute Live!!!!!! stretches credibility quite a bit as a septuagenarian super-ace.  The VF-1 was 59 years and 4 generations old by the time it appeared in Macross Delta's TV series too.

 

They haven't been honest about it since it was announced, why start now?

(Though in all fairness, with the WGA on strike they probably can't get any more bargain basement story treatments to pretend that the project isn't dead on arrival.)

For HG's audience, the hope will always be a sequel that covers the events right after Macross. Macross has gone forward and backward with their stories so there's going to be hope in the Robotech fandom the next Macross will be Macross 3 or something. HG wants everyone to know... There is no hope.

Someone asked when hg would start streaming the original shows (maybe a better question for Sony or Crunchyroll). I bet they're sandbagging those for when BW launches international Macross streaming.

[Seto Kaiba]

OK, looking at it from that perspective makes way more sense.

Rather than being a badly-worded attempt to appear to be in control after bending the knee two years back, it's a badly-worded attempt to dissuade Robotech fans from looking into the new Macross series by awkwardly pointing out that it won't be Robotech II: the Sentinels by another name.  

I guess that's on brand for them, though it hardly seems necessary since what's left of the Robotech fandom seems deeply offended by the Japanese-ness of Macross's sequels on principle.

[Raikkonen]

I'll never be convinced of any Robotech future show to ever happen.

Since the internet's early days HG has been promising something in the works from a show to a live action film, but zero has happened in almost 30 years. So I don't understand why HG keep feeling threatened to how Macross continues? 

Only thing that is keeping Robotech alive in HG's boardroom is Macek, but once he's in a retirement home, Robotech will only live on Youtube documentaries. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Raikkonen

[Seto Kaiba]

31 minutes ago, Raikkonen said:

I'll never be convinced of any Robotech future show to ever happen.

Since the internet's early days HG has been promising something in the works from a show to a live action film, but zero has happened in almost 30 years. So I don't understand why HG keep feeling threatened to how Macross continues? 

HG did release a couple of shorts and one episode of what was supposed to be a four-part OVA before it got canceled due to a combination of being poorly received in general and a lack of investors to fund subsequent episodes. They tried again with a Kickstarter about 9 years ago, but it missed its funding goal by a pretty significant amount.

Their beef with Macross has always been about merchandising. The overwhelming majority of Robotech's merchandise is based on Super Dimension Fortress Macross. Without it, they don't really have much of a merchandise line. So they're very keen on protecting what they have from having to compete with the higher quality toys coming out of Japan. It was that desire to avoid competition that prompted the whole licensing embargo in the first place back in 1999-2001 because their partner Toynami was launching a line of VF-1 toys as a part of their effort to reboot the franchise. It's also why they picked up the merchandising rights to DYRL?, so that nobody could do an end run around their rights under license by importing DYRL? toys based on the same designs as the SDF toys they were making.

 

31 minutes ago, Raikkonen said:

Only thing that is keeping Robotech alive in HG's boardroom is Macek, but once he's in a retirement home, Robotech will only live on Youtube documentaries. 

Carl Macek isn't doing much in HG's boardroom anymore... on account of having passed away 13 years ago from a heart attack.

(Not to mention that he hadn't been in charge of Robotech for about nine years at that point.)

Edited July 22, 2023 by Seto Kaiba

[Raikkonen]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Carl Macek isn't doing much in HG's boardroom anymore... on account of having passed away 13 years ago from a heart attack.

(Not to mention that he hadn't been in charge of Robotech for about nine years at that point.)

Well, that's fail on me. Keep seeing his past interviews in new videos that don't mention his passing. 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

HG did release a couple of shorts and one episode of what was supposed to be a four-part OVA before it got canceled due to a combination of being poorly received in general and a lack of investors to fund subsequent episodes. They tried again with a Kickstarter about 9 years ago, but it missed its funding goal by a pretty significant amount.

My point. What has come out of their attempts? 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Their beef with Macross has always been about merchandising. The overwhelming majority of Robotech's merchandise is based on Super Dimension Fortress Macross. Without it, they don't really have much of a merchandise line. So they're very keen on protecting what they have from having to compete with the higher quality toys coming out of Japan. It was that desire to avoid competition that prompted the whole licensing embargo in the first place back in 1999-2001 because their partner Toynami was launching a line of VF-1 toys as a part of their effort to reboot the franchise. It's also why they picked up the merchandising rights to DYRL?, so that nobody could do an end run around their rights under license by importing DYRL? toys based on the same designs as the SDF toys they were making.

If they want to protect their merchandising, then they need to improve the delivered product to build a client base. No point wanting to be the sole producer of a particular design, of the which the end product leaves a soar taste to most buyers. 

Even now with a reputable brand like Threezero, HG is letting past imperfections well ironed out by other manufacturers on the same design. 

Whatever Toynami and etc has produced, every detail was approved by HG before sent to production.

[Seto Kaiba]

11 minutes ago, Raikkonen said:

Well, that's fail on me. Keep seeing his past interviews in new videos that don't mention his passing. 

Mind you, I wouldn't put it past them to be taking directions from a Oujia board or something...

 

11 minutes ago, Raikkonen said:

My point. What has come out of their attempts? 

Long term?  Basically nothing.  They did pull off a reasonably competent reboot and relaunch of the franchise but couldn't sustain the momentum for various reasons... many of which could be traced back to the reputational damage the brand suffered under Macek.

 

11 minutes ago, Raikkonen said:

If they want to protect their merchandising, then they need to improve the delivered product to build a client base. No point wanting to be the sole producer of a particular design, of the which the end product leaves a soar taste to most buyers. 

Even now with a reputable brand like Threezero, HG is letting past imperfections well ironed out by other manufacturers on the same design. 

Whatever Toynami and etc has produced, every detail was approved by HG before sent to production.

Not exactly, no... you see, they have an exclusive license to the distribution and merchandising rights for Super Dimension Fortress Macross.  They literaly paid for that exclusivity, and they acquired the merchandising rights to Macross: Do You Remember Love? in order to preserve that exclusivity from a technical loophole.  It's inconvenient for fans, but it's not really bad business from an objective standpoint.  They not-unreasonably want to protect that exclusivity because their adaptation of SDF Macross is their primary source of merchandising revenue and they have to produce merchandise in order to hang onto the trademarks that are the only reason Big West hasn't run their franchise out of business.

They don't really have an incentive to improve because, in the absence of new material, their customer base has shrunk to just a few thousand fanatical fans who'll buy anything and the low expected volumes make for a poor ROI so the quantity and quality of licensees has diminished as well.  Macross fans can, and do, just buy direct from Japan to get that higher quality merchandise regardless of HG's opinion... so nobody really has a reason to care.

Macross is gonna keep doing its own thing.  The aged-up designs for the legacy characters are legally distinct from the ones HG has a license for, so there's nothing that's really stopping Big West from having those legacy characters appear as they do in Macross 7, Macross Delta, etc..  All it really means for Macross is that the Macross the First anime which Big West wasn't making anyway is still not happening... it's not happening slightly harder than it was before... who cares?  

 

[JB0]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Their beef with Macross has always been about merchandising. The overwhelming majority of Robotech's merchandise is based on Super Dimension Fortress Macross. Without it, they don't really have much of a merchandise line. So they're very keen on protecting what they have from having to compete with the higher quality toys coming out of Japan. It was that desire to avoid competition that prompted the whole licensing embargo in the first place back in 1999-2001 because their partner Toynami was launching a line of VF-1 toys as a part of their effort to reboot the franchise. It's also why they picked up the merchandising rights to DYRL?, so that nobody could do an end run around their rights under license by importing DYRL? toys based on the same designs as the SDF toys they were making.

I think that's a bit kind to HG, really. That turn-of-the-century mess may have started as legitimate license protection, but kinda rapidly escalated to "we literally own the copyright to the entire franchise outside of Japan... except Plus and Two because we were asleep, but it won't happen again".

 

My recollection is they didn't pick up the DYRL merch license until after Big West sued Tatsunoko and the japanese courts came back with "Tatsunoko doesn't own any rights to most of the franchise... and never actually claimed otherwise?"

At that point, with it being very clear they had no LEGAL base to block anything other than SDF, HG ran out and registered trademarks on every Macross-related thing they could think of, and THEN started releasing DYRL merchandise to justify a bunch of trademarks.

...

Trademarks they COULD have used on SDF merch, but didn't want to. I assume they figured that selling SDF merchandise under the Macross brand would cannibalize the sales of Robotech merchandise... which must've been moving in massive volumes at that point. Why, I bet they were selling HUNDREDS of units annually!

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, JB0 said:

I think that's a bit kind to HG, really. That turn-of-the-century mess may have started as legitimate license protection, but kinda rapidly escalated to "we literally own the copyright to the entire franchise outside of Japan... except Plus and Two because we were asleep, but it won't happen again".

Kind of the reverse, actually... it was always about license protection, but they were mistaken about the scope of their license so it started as "all of Macross worldwide" and very rapidly de-escalated to "just the original series" after Big West, Studio Nue, and Tatsunoko fact-checked them.

 

10 hours ago, JB0 said:

My recollection is they didn't pick up the DYRL merch license until after Big West sued Tatsunoko and the japanese courts came back with "Tatsunoko doesn't own any rights to most of the franchise... and never actually claimed otherwise?"

Partially.  HG sought the license for the DYRL? merchandising rights after they got fact-checked by Tatsunoko but before the actual court filings in Japan were resolved.  It was to close a loophole in their attempts to protect the Toynami license, since the DYRL? VF-1s are legally distinct from the TV versions and they would not otherwise have been able to prevent the importation of certain Japanese VF-1 toys.  

(Yeah, with one exception the court filings ended with the confirmation that everyone owned what they thought they owned.  The only area where there was an actual dispute was Tatsunoko took the opportunity to file a separate claim in a bid to claim royalties from Macross sequels on account of its role in producing the original... a claim that was rejected because they only funded production, not development.)

 

10 hours ago, JB0 said:

Trademarks they COULD have used on SDF merch, but didn't want to. I assume they figured that selling SDF merchandise under the Macross brand would cannibalize the sales of Robotech merchandise... which must've been moving in massive volumes at that point. Why, I bet they were selling HUNDREDS of units annually!

Oh, they absolutely use the SDF merch to maintain those trademarks.  It's why most of their recent merch is now carrying the Macross logo alongside the Robotech one.

[Rhubarbarian]

23 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

On 7/21/2023 at 10:49 PM, jenius said:

I LOLed when they said the love action was a victim of the strikes... Rrrrrrright 

They haven't been honest about it since it was announced, why start now?

(Though in all fairness, with the WGA on strike they probably can't get any more bargain basement story treatments to pretend that the project isn't dead on arrival.)

HG definitely wouldn't be WGA, but their writing would fall under TAG if they were doing union animated productions. I would wager pretty much any sum of money they'd be non-union if they ever got around to making anything, though.

They had standard voice talent on Shadow Chronicles, so most of those guys have SAG cards, but generally actors can work on TAG/non-union animated productions without it being considered crossing picket lines.

This is all moot because - as you both have noticed - this is just a smokescreen for the fact that HG doesn't have anything. I'm just confirming it's not any strike-related activity holding HG back.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Rhubarbarian said:

HG definitely wouldn't be WGA, but their writing would fall under TAG if they were doing union animated productions. I would wager pretty much any sum of money they'd be non-union if they ever got around to making anything, though.

That's not about animation, it's about the proposed live action Robotech movie allegedly (but not actually) in development (at WB 2007-2014, at Sony 2015-present).

They bought a handful of story treatments from WGA writers over the years in order to make it look like the project wasn't DOA, and that's what they're referencing when they claim that the WGA strike (and now the SAG-AFTRA strike) halted work on the project.  It's all BS, but it's all they have to try to convince Robotech's remaining fans that the franchise isn't at death's door since HG stopped funding new animation development itself in '07 and fans refused to crowdfund it in '14.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Seto Kaiba