Will the next Macross be the last Macross?

[twich]

I seem to recall in Delta that Messer and Mirage both were a part of the N.U.N. Space before they joined Xaos. Even if the age of adulthood has become below 18 in Macross, you don’t do pilot training over a weekend, it takes years, then deployment to a unit for a certain span of time(months or years), then retirement, recruitment by Xaos, training for the new mecha (VF-31), then training and practice for formation flying/air show performing. It does not seem to add up for the specified age of these characters, unless you introduce some sort of mystical aspect, such a DNA/instinctual ability to pilot mechs, aka Newtype from Gundam.

twich

[sketchley]

37 minutes ago, twich said:

I seem to recall in Delta that Messer and Mirage both were a part of the N.U.N. Space before they joined Xaos. Even if the age of adulthood has become below 18 in Macross, you don’t do pilot training over a weekend, it takes years, then deployment to a unit for a certain span of time(months or years), then retirement, recruitment by Xaos, training for the new mecha (VF-31), then training and practice for formation flying/air show performing. It does not seem to add up for the specified age of these characters, unless you introduce some sort of mystical aspect, such a DNA/instinctual ability to pilot mechs, aka Newtype from Gundam.

twich

This highlights a culture gap between English speaking countries and Japan.  In short, education is mandatory only until the end of junior high school (grade 9).  Thereafter, people tend to go into either private high school, public high school, or something akin to a technical college (somewhere between high school and a trade school).¹²

In-universe, Macross has been treating Valkyries like they are cars since Macross 7.  While it's ridiculous to assume that people would be trained in tactics and weapons just to get a basic 'driving licence', it's plausible that these characters are well versed in how to drive the family car (the Valkyrie) by the time they graduate from junior high school.

That said, I agree that what is depicted in Macross is pushing the limits of plausibility, but it is plausible—especially if one keeps in mind that everything in-universe is fundamentally different after the surface of the Earth was annihilated and priorities changed (E.g. Valkyries becoming the equivalent to the car).

 

¹  case in point: one of my students graduated junior high school, and went to a technical college to learn about aircraft mechanics/maintenance (grade 10 and onward) at a school that is basically a glorified airport (possibly the basis for Mihoshi Academy in MF?)

² the Japan Self-Defence Force has its own junior/senior high school.  So, in-universe it's plausible for people to attend the equivalent and having been learning how to pilot Valkyries (and have essentially been in the armed forces) since grade 7.

Edited April 19, 2021 by sketchley

[sketchley]

double post

Edited April 19, 2021 by sketchley

[Bolt]

Very good points there @sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, twich said:

I seem to recall in Delta that Messer and Mirage both were a part of the N.U.N. Space before they joined Xaos.

As was Arad, yes... though it's worth remembering that both Delta Flight and Walkure are very recent developments in 2067.  They've only been active for about two years.

 

1 hour ago, twich said:

Even if the age of adulthood has become below 18 in Macross, you don’t do pilot training over a weekend, it takes years, then deployment to a unit for a certain span of time(months or years), then retirement, recruitment by Xaos, training for the new mecha (VF-31), then training and practice for formation flying/air show performing. It does not seem to add up for the specified age of these characters, [...]

One thing that a lot of people aren't aware of is that it's actually perfectly possible to enlist in the military while underage even in the real world... with permission of a parent or legal guardian, of course.

Underage recruitment is, of course, heavily scrutinized under international law and as such these arrangements tend to be deliberately set up to ensure that any underage recruits will have reached the age of majority before their training is completed or that they will otherwise be barred from direct participation in hostilities until they come of age.  The US military recruits over 15,000 17 year olds every year under provisions like this.

We know the New UN Forces have an arrangement like this as well thanks to the backstory of Macross 7's Gamlin Kizaki.  He joined the New UN Forces Air Force School at age 15 (in 2041) by special entry, and his prodigious skill led him to complete the three year training program in two years and graduate to his posting in Diamond Force in 2043 at age 17.  He had already achieved the rank of First Lieutenant at age 19 when Macross 7 started in 2045 and would later be promoted to Captain.

That can make the dates work out.

Valkyries also have a lot of convenience features like the Airframe Control AI that take the burden of the nitty-gritty details off the pilot's hands, and current-gen VFs are supposedly even easier to learn how to fly thanks to EX-Gear.  Though, even with that, Hayate's training is so accelerated that it's hard to credit unless his long experience with Destroids was a transferrable skill (as it appeared to be given episode 1's outing in the VF-171).

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Though, even with that, Hayate's training is so accelerated that it's hard to credit unless his long experience with Destroids was a transferrable skill (as it appeared to be given episode 1's outing in the VF-171).

I actually appreciate some context their , in the beginning of Delta. In order to give Hayate some credibility rather than just being taken for granted.

[Radd]

I didn't really intend to start some kind of debate. The age thing wasn't a big deal for me as I still consider Frontier a great series.

I do miss hand drawn mecha, though. Dynamite 7 remains a favourite of mine partially because it's the last Macross with great hand drawn mecha action. And a great variety of mecha at that. (And no, this isn't intended to start any debate, either. The CG mecha in Zero, Frontier and such are fine, and I totally get the CG allows them to do more with a tighter budget, I just have a preference for hand drawn mecha.)

[sketchley]

7 minutes ago, Radd said:

I didn't really intend to start some kind of debate. The age thing wasn't a big deal for me as I still consider Frontier a great series.

I do miss hand drawn mecha, though. Dynamite 7 remains a favourite of mine partially because it's the last Macross with great hand drawn mecha action. And a great variety of mecha at that. (And no, this isn't intended to start any debate, either. The CG mecha in Zero, Frontier and such are fine, and I totally get the CG allows them to do more with a tighter budget, I just have a preference for hand drawn mecha.)

I totally agree with you—on the hand-drawn mecha.  I think the Valkyrie designs in Macross 7 are the best, only because of the economy of line in them (one can sense the genius of the artist as so much is visually conveyed with so few lines).  The designs from Zero and onward are just too visually complex.

Kawamori-san has also said that there is less "cheating" with the CG designs.  However, I think that part of the charm of SDFM and so on is the "anime magic" inherent to the designs.

[azrael]

5 hours ago, sketchley said:

I totally agree with you—on the hand-drawn mecha.  I think the Valkyrie designs in Macross 7 are the best, only because of the economy of line in them (one can sense the genius of the artist as so much is visually conveyed with so few lines).  The designs from Zero and onward are just too visually complex.

Kawamori-san has also said that there is less "cheating" with the CG designs.  However, I think that part of the charm of SDFM and so on is the "anime magic" inherent to the designs.

I guess you can say hand-drawn is more "artisanal".
 

[jvmacross]

Magical anime indeed!

 

 

[Marzan]

My late contribution to the topic.

I think there will be plenty more Macross. Kawamori is the youngest looking 60 year old on the planet and these directors keep working well into their seventies. And he's not afraid to keep on with the times.

Would like to have a fresh voice in the show though. Would like to see what someone else can do with the Macross core concept.

[SebastianP]

Isn't a lot of the recent canon story credited to Ukyo Kodachi these days? (And as an old, old Ranma fan, that name still makes me snicker when I have to write it). Ukyo Kodachi was IIRC credited with both Frontier and The Ride, and IIRC Mac30 too? Don't remember if they were responsible for Delta though, though I do know Delta ran into extensive executive meddling.

The one major thing that really would disappear with Kawamori are the VFs, he's the only one who's ever really been able to do those and make them look *good* in all three forms.

[Bolt]

On 4/19/2021 at 9:59 AM, jvmacross said:

Magical anime indeed!

 

 

Whoa  dude...awesome!

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Whoa  dude...awesome!

Hope we get some news about these shows soon! Although I think the ones I am most interested in are still tied-up with HG...

[Zinjo]

On 4/18/2021 at 8:33 PM, sketchley said:

This highlights a culture gap between English speaking countries and Japan.  In short, education is mandatory only until the end of junior high school (grade 9).  Thereafter, people tend to go into either private high school, public high school, or something akin to a technical college (somewhere between high school and a trade school).¹²

In-universe, Macross has been treating Valkyries like they are cars since Macross 7.  While it's ridiculous to assume that people would be trained in tactics and weapons just to get a basic 'driving licence', it's plausible that these characters are well versed in how to drive the family car (the Valkyrie) by the time they graduate from junior high school.

That said, I agree that what is depicted in Macross is pushing the limits of plausibility, but it is plausible—especially if one keeps in mind that everything in-universe is fundamentally different after the surface of the Earth was annihilated and priorities changed (E.g. Valkyries becoming the equivalent to the car).

 

¹  case in point: one of my students graduated junior high school, and went to a technical college to learn about aircraft mechanics/maintenance (grade 10 and onward) at a school that is basically a glorified airport (possibly the basis for Mihoshi Academy in MF?)

² the Japan Self-Defence Force has its own junior/senior high school.  So, in-universe it's plausible for people to attend the equivalent and having been learning how to pilot Valkyries (and have essentially been in the armed forces) since grade 7.

 Frontier addressed this very thing.  The high school setting for the series had a flight training school as part of the curriculum.  A trade school of sorts for pilots.  Imagine graduating from high school with your pilot's wings and then going on to train in the military. 

[Thom]

I wonder if in the Macross universe, like the IDF, it is mandatory to serve a term in the service? After Earth was razed, I could easily imagine every surviving citizen having to a term in the military, at least until the civil unrest after the war finally eased up. And I could see that being carried over to the Immigration Fleets. With a finite population so far away from immediate assistance, they would want as many citizens as possible to be able to stand up and fill the gap made by combat losses. It would follow that students would have military trade schools as well.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Thom